Home PEx Family and Society Realm of Thought

Animal Empathy

13

Comments

  • logitextlogitext PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    ElCid said:
    What university are you talking about?  

    This University:

    One of the most complex and integral emotions is empathy, the ability to understand and share the feelings of those around us. Humans display empathy toward other humans and animals alike. Do animals do the same? Research points to yes.
    https://online.uwa.edu/news/empathy-in-animals/#:~:text=Animals display empathy toward humans,harm at their own expense.


    YOU LOSE


  • ElCidElCid PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    From which university did this bullsh!t anecdotal evidence is coming from? :lol:
    logitext said:
    I'm telling you, its your loss. Tell this bull$hit (that animals have no emotions) youve been telling me here to other people, they will think youre an idiot. lol
    This empathy bullsh!t of yours extend only to the lab rat, from your reference:

    Many don’t picture rats when they think of empathy, but a recent study proves that rats empathize with their friends
    But in real world situations, you stink at empathy since atheists suck in charity.  You turn a blind eye to slavery and forced labor.  You turn a blind eye and even justify mass murder in the hundreds of millions.  You defend the atheist regime which surgically removes human organs from live prisoners of conscience and sell it in the internet for profit.  You defend the same atheist regime when it conquered and slaughtered a million people in the peaceful country of Tibet.  You will for sure eat your own family since you advocate survival cannibalism if the situation calls for it.  

    But I believe you have empathy, probably for rats since your study proves that rats empathize with their friends :lol: but not for human beings.  All this love and empathy is bullsh!t on your part.  
  • logitextlogitext PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    ElCid said:

    This empathy bullsh!t of yours extend only to the lab rat, from your reference:

    So?


    ElCid said:

    But in real world situations, you stink at empathy since atheists suck in charity.  You turn a blind eye to slavery and forced labor.  You turn a blind eye and even justify mass murder in the hundreds of millions.  You defend the atheist regime which surgically removes human organs from live prisoners of conscience and sell it in the internet for profit.  You defend the same atheist regime when it conquered and slaughtered a million people in the peaceful country of Tibet.  You will for sure eat your own family since you advocate survival cannibalism if the situation calls for it.  

    But I believe you have empathy, probably for rats since your study proves that rats empathize with their friends :lol: but not for human beings.  All this love and empathy is bullsh!t on your part.  


    Lets discuss that at the appropriate thread. Not here.
  • ElCidElCid PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    edited June 16 #45
    logitext said:
    So?
    Again, let me hammer this into your thick skull - you cannot get into the mind of a RAT although you are very much like one :lol:.  You cannot even get into the head of another human being even with the kind of sophisticated equipment that we have.  You can only see so much of the brain but there is more to what the eyes can see.  You cannot see motivation, you cannot see the WILL.   And although you behave and think much like a RAT, that's not the case for the rest of humanity.  :lol:
    logitext said:
    Lets discuss that at the appropriate thread. Not here.
    What appropriate thread are you talking about when you hijack every thread when you feel like it? =)  If you as a human and as an atheist stink at charity, how can you even claim that you have empathy?  And all this talk about empathy and love is just bullsh!t.  For you they are just chemical reactions in the brain according to your point of view.  If there is no element of choice then it is not empathy but just reaction to stimuli.  Why exert effort to do right?  Can our actions be then moral without the element of FREE WILL? Your point of view creates more problems than solutions sadly. :lol:  So all your talk about living a moral life is bullsh!t since it entails freedom to choose between different courses of action.
  • logitextlogitext PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    edited June 16 #46
    ElCid said:
    logitext said:
    So?
    Again, let me hammer this into your thick skull - you cannot get into the mind of a RAT although you are very much like one :lol:.  You cannot even get into the head of another human being even with the kind of sophisticated equipment that we have.  You can only see so much of the brain but there is more to what the eyes can see.  You cannot see motivation, you cannot see the WILL.   And although you behave and think much like a RAT, that's not the case for the rest of humanity.  :lol:

    Again, let me hammer this into your thick skull - TELL THAT TO THE UNIVERSITY
    And every other scientific institute which concludes that some animals have empathy, emotions.
    Best of luck to you Amigo!

    But until then, 

    YOU LOSE



    :lol:


  • ElCidElCid PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    Again, let me hammer this into your thick skull - TELL THAT TO THE UNIVERSITY
    And every other scientific institute which concludes that some animals have empathy, emotions.
    Best of luck to you Amigo!

    But until then, 

    YOU LOSE


    :lol:
    That's only anthropomorphism according to a neuroscientist.  You cannot get into the mind of humans let alone the midn of a RAT.  I can never lose to you since you are a quitter and quitters don't win logitext :lol:.  And how can you argue that RATS have empathy when in the real world you admit that you stink at charity?  You turn a blind eye to slavery, forced labor, mass murder, trade in human organs and a host of other human rights violations in atheists regimes.  So are RATS BETTER THAN YOU? :lol:

    That is why it really really really really really sucks to be you.  You lose.   :lol:
  • logitextlogitext PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    ElCid said:

    That's only anthropomorphism according to a neuroscientist.  
    Which you took out of context. 

    Ok I understand how hard it is to get the attention of all those scientific institutes and tell them they were wrong.
    So I'll make it much more simple for you.

    GIVE ME A LEGIT SCIENTIFIC ARTICLE LITERALLY STATING THAT NO ANIMAL IS CAPABLE OF EMPATHY.

    Good luck. ;)
  • ElCidElCid PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    edited June 16 #49
    logitext said:
    ElCid said:

    That's only anthropomorphism according to a neuroscientist.  
    Which you took out of context. 

    Ok I understand how hard it is to get the attention of all those scientific institutes and tell them they were wrong.
    So I'll make it much more simple for you.

    GIVE ME A LEGIT SCIENTIFIC ARTICLE LITERALLY STATING THAT NO ANIMAL IS CAPABLE OF EMPATHY.

    Good luck. ;)
    For someone who considers a blog from a highschool student as scientific evidence this is really laughable. :lol:  So rats are better than you logitext?  They have empathy but you don't? :lol:

  • logitextlogitext PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    ^ I already made it easy for you. Here I'll make it even more easier

    FIND A LEGIT SCIENCE ARTICLE DIRECTLY STATING THAT IN THE ENTIRE ANIMAL KINGDOM ONLY HUMANS HAVE EMOTIONS.

    Good luck.
  • ElCidElCid PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐

    Rat and ant rescues 'don't show empathy'

    Source:  University of Oxford
    Summary:

    Studies of how rats and ants rescue other members of their species do not prove that animals other than humans have empathy, according to biologists.

    Studies of how rats and ants rescue other members of their species do not prove that animals other than humans have empathy, according to a team led by Oxford University scientists.

    Empathy -- recognizing and sharing feelings experienced by another individual -- is a key human trait and to understand its evolution numerous studies have looked for evidence of it in non-human animals.

    'To prove empathy any experiment must show an individual understands another's feelings and is driven by the psychological goal of improving another's wellbeing. Our view is that, so far, there is no proof of this outside of humans.'

    The team highlights how interpretations of pro-social behavior vary -- rat rescues, for instance, are regarded as being motivated by empathy whilst ant rescues are not -- even though the observed behavior (pulling on the legs or tail of the trapped individual, followed by biting at the restraint) are very similar.

    In order to prove empathy any experiment would need to show that individuals changed their response if the circumstances changed; for instance moving away from a trapped individual if that reduced the trapped animal's distress. It would also need to disentangle empathy from acting simply to stop the trapped animal's stress signals -- something that can be psychologically selfish and does not need to involve empathy.

    Solving the riddle of empathy would have important implications not just for the sciences but for philosophy and ethics. However, the team concludes scientists will have to come up with new, more rigorous studies to show that empathy exists outside of humans.

    This thread is therefore dead in the water :lol:




  • logitextlogitext PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    edited June 17 #52
    ElCid said:

    Rat and ant rescues 'don't show empathy'

    Source:  University of Oxford
    Summary:

    Studies of how rats and ants rescue other members of their species do not prove that animals other than humans have empathy, according to biologists.

    Studies of how rats and ants rescue other members of their species do not prove that animals other than humans have empathy, according to a team led by Oxford University scientists.

    Empathy -- recognizing and sharing feelings experienced by another individual -- is a key human trait and to understand its evolution numerous studies have looked for evidence of it in non-human animals.

    'To prove empathy any experiment must show an individual understands another's feelings and is driven by the psychological goal of improving another's wellbeing. Our view is that, so far, there is no proof of this outside of humans.'

    The team highlights how interpretations of pro-social behavior vary -- rat rescues, for instance, are regarded as being motivated by empathy whilst ant rescues are not -- even though the observed behavior (pulling on the legs or tail of the trapped individual, followed by biting at the restraint) are very similar.

    In order to prove empathy any experiment would need to show that individuals changed their response if the circumstances changed; for instance moving away from a trapped individual if that reduced the trapped animal's distress. It would also need to disentangle empathy from acting simply to stop the trapped animal's stress signals -- something that can be psychologically selfish and does not need to involve empathy.

    Solving the riddle of empathy would have important implications not just for the sciences but for philosophy and ethics. However, the team concludes scientists will have to come up with new, more rigorous studies to show that empathy exists outside of humans.

    This thread is therefore dead in the water :lol:





    Close, but no cigar. :lol:

    All your source was saying was that the test wasnt rigorous enough. 

    Nice try. Try again. ;)


    FIND A LEGIT SCIENCE ARTICLE DIRECTLY STATING THAT IN THE ENTIRE ANIMAL KINGDOM ONLY HUMANS HAVE EMOTIONS
  • logitextlogitext PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    edited June 17 #53
    Also, your source is quite dated. The source below is June 2021, and the study confirms the emotions in some animals:

    Neural mechanisms necessary for empathy-related phenomena across species

    Highlights

    • Powerful rodent and monkey models of empathy-related phenomena now exist.

    • Most empathy-associated regions in functional magnetic resonance imaging are necessary for empathy-related phenomena.

    • Empathy-related phenomena depend on cingulate and amygdala activity across species.

    • Interfering with oxytocin signaling alters empathy-related phenomena across species.

    • Analgesics that alter pain experience alter pain empathy-related phenomena.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0959438821000155?via=ihub




    Governments spent a fortune on research and Scientists went through the most rigorous tests they can employ, and were able to come up with huge evidences that these animals do have empathy.

    You on the other insist they are wrong, just because you are too narcissistic to accept correction. :lol:


  • ElCidElCid PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    edited June 18 #54
    Now I am narcissistic :lol:  Ad hominem much more logitext - attack the person and not the argument.  Lame and stup!d logitext but keep them coming.  Only shows what kind of loser you are in debate :lol:

    Because you didn't read beyond the intro :lol:  From your own reference:

    "leading many to suspect this network is what is causing us to feel what others feel."

    "Neuroimaging studies alone however remain correlational and cannot establish that activity in the nodes of this network causally contributes to empathy-related phenomena. The question we must ask is would modifying brain activity in these nodes alter empathy-related phenomena? With most of these nodes too deep to noninvasively neuromodulate in humans, this critical question may thus be close to untestable."

    If Alexander the Great wept because there were no more lands to conquer, the many gaps in Figure 2 should make us rejoice: for many of the nodes, we still have key experiments to perform to conquer a true understanding of the mechanisms of empathy.




  • logitextlogitext PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    edited June 18 #55
    ElCid said:
    Now I am narcissistic :lol:  Ad hominem much more logitext - attack the person and not the argument.  Lame and stup!d logitext but keep them coming.  Only shows what kind of loser you are in debate :lol:

    Because you didn't read beyond the intro :lol:  From your own reference:

    "leading many to suspect this network is what is causing us to feel what others feel."

    "Neuroimaging studies alone however remain correlational and cannot establish that activity in the nodes of this network causally contributes to empathy-related phenomena. The question we must ask is would modifying brain activity in these nodes alter empathy-related phenomena? With most of these nodes too deep to noninvasively neuromodulate in humans, this critical question may thus be close to untestable."

    If Alexander the Great wept because there were no more lands to conquer, the many gaps in Figure 2 should make us rejoice: for many of the nodes, we still have key experiments to perform to conquer a true understanding of the mechanisms of empathy.





    :lol::lol::lol:

    Amigo, I actually read the whole thing. For a second I was worried when I read that part you quoted, but then it said:

    However, over the past years, behavioral neuroscientists have started developing paradigms that make empathy-related phenomena measurable in rodents and primates, in which brain activity can be precisely altered everywhere in the brain [4]. To address the burning question of causality, here we will thus sieve through the literature of the past couple of years in search of studies in humans, rodents, and monkeys that can help us establish whether some of these nodes really do contribute to empathy-related phenomena.




    Finally your quote about Alexander simply states the excitement they feel because there are more nodes to study to better understand the mechanism of empathy in animals.




    Comprehension failure on your part, Amigo.
    Nice try. ;)
  • ElCidElCid PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    edited June 18 #56
    logitext said:
    ElCid said:
    Now I am narcissistic :lol:  Ad hominem much more logitext - attack the person and not the argument.  Lame and stup!d logitext but keep them coming.  Only shows what kind of loser you are in debate :lol:

    Because you didn't read beyond the intro :lol:  From your own reference:

    "leading many to suspect this network is what is causing us to feel what others feel."

    "Neuroimaging studies alone however remain correlational and cannot establish that activity in the nodes of this network causally contributes to empathy-related phenomena. The question we must ask is would modifying brain activity in these nodes alter empathy-related phenomena? With most of these nodes too deep to noninvasively neuromodulate in humans, this critical question may thus be close to untestable."

    If Alexander the Great wept because there were no more lands to conquer, the many gaps in Figure 2 should make us rejoice: for many of the nodes, we still have key experiments to perform to conquer a true understanding of the mechanisms of empathy.





    :lol::lol::lol:

    Amigo, I actually read the whole thing. For a second I was worried when I read that part you quoted, but then it said:

    However, over the past years, behavioral neuroscientists have started developing paradigms that make empathy-related phenomena measurable in rodents and primates, in which brain activity can be precisely altered everywhere in the brain [4]. To address the burning question of causality, here we will thus sieve through the literature of the past couple of years in search of studies in humans, rodents, and monkeys that can help us establish whether some of these nodes really do contribute to empathy-related phenomena.




    Finally your quote about Alexander simply states the excitement they feel because there are more nodes to study to better understand the mechanism of empathy in animals.




    Comprehension failure on your part, Amigo.
    Nice try. ;)
    This is part of the conclusion logitext:  we still have key experiments to perform to conquer a true understanding of the mechanisms of empathy.

    Don't you understand that logitext?  They have not yet performed KEY EXPERIMENTS which would unlock a TRUE UNDERSTANDING OF THE MECHANISMS OF EMPATHY.  So your own experts admit that they have not yet finished their work to arrive at a true understanding of the mechanisms of empathy.  Ergo it is not conclusive that is why they just suspect:

    "leading many to suspect this network is what is causing us to feel what others feel."

    Suspect means:  have an idea or impression of the existence, presence, or truth of (something) without certain proof.

    :lol:  Without certain proof logitext :lol:  Again, your own references makes this thread:


  • logitextlogitext PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    edited June 18 #57
    ElCid said:

    This is part of the conclusion logitext:  we still have key experiments to perform to conquer a true understanding of the mechanisms of empathy.

    These animals have empathy thats why they are performing experiments on them, to understand how empathy works inside the brain itself.
    Some of these experiments are very intrusive and could not be done on humans for ethical & legal reasons. So they do it on animals. If we understand how empathy works on animals, we gain very important clues how empathy works in human brains. 


  • ElCidElCid PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    logitext said:

    These animals have empathy thats why they are performing experiments on them, to understand how empathy works.
    Some of these experiments are intrusive and could not be done on humans. So they do it on animals. If we understand how it works on animals, we know how it works on humans.
    More bullsh!t from the bullsh!t artist.   Your reference already said that they have not yet completed performing KEY EXPERIMENTS to have a TRUE UNDERSTANDING OF THE MECHANISMS OF EMPATHY so this is a work in progress and you cannot YET DERIVE ANY CONCLUSIVE PROOF FROM IT.  At this point in time they only suspect and have an impression without CERTAIN PROOF simply because they have not yet performed KEY experiments which would unlock the door that would lead to understanding how empathy works.

    The problem with you is again your comprehension issues.  And right now you're talking bullsh!t since you are begging the question - assuming as a fact that which you are trying to prove :lol:  How can you make such stup!d statements?


  • logitextlogitext PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    ^ You are must misinterpreting the article. Look at it this way, why would governments and institutions be spending all that money in research about animal empathy if theres no empathy to research?
  • ElCidElCid PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    logitext said:
    ^ You are must misinterpreting the article. Look at it this way, why would governments and institutions be spending all that money in research about animal empathy if theres no empathy to research?
    Why would you look for something that is already there? :lol:  Your reference already said that they have not yet completed performing KEY EXPERIMENTS to have a TRUE UNDERSTANDING OF THE MECHANISMS OF EMPATHY so this is a work in progress and you cannot YET DERIVE ANY CONCLUSIVE PROOF FROM IT.  At this point in time they only suspect and have an impression without CERTAIN PROOF simply because they have not yet performed KEY experiments which would unlock the door that would lead to understanding how empathy works.
  • logitextlogitext PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    ElCid said:
    logitext said:
    ^ You are must misinterpreting the article. Look at it this way, why would governments and institutions be spending all that money in research about animal empathy if theres no empathy to research?
    Why would you look for something that is already there? :lol:  
    They werent. They were trying to understand HOW it works. Because you cant do these kinds of studies on a living human being.


    That is why:
    ElCid said:

    Your reference already said that they have not yet completed performing KEY EXPERIMENTS to have a TRUE UNDERSTANDING OF THE MECHANISMS OF EMPATHY so this is a work in progress and you cannot YET DERIVE ANY CONCLUSIVE PROOF FROM IT.  At this point in time they only suspect and have an impression without CERTAIN PROOF simply because they have not yet performed KEY experiments which would unlock the door that would lead to understanding how empathy works.


    Understand?


Sign In or Register to comment.