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Animal Empathy

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  • logitextlogitext PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    ElCid said:

    We are talking about science.  Microbiology is a science.  

    We are specifically talking about animals that have emotions. 
  • ElCidElCid PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    edited June 9 #23
    logitext said:
    ElCid said:

    We are talking about science.  Microbiology is a science.  

    We are specifically talking about animals that have emotions. 
    They don't have emotions.  As already pointed out - what you're doing is just anthropomorphism:

    Anthropomorphism in science

    It is a human characteristic to assign human emotion and behaviour to other living creatures. Yet anthropocentrism may well have ‘infected' microbiology and misdirected research.

    It is a common characteristic of our species to assign human emotion and behaviour to other creatures and even inanimate objects—just ask any car owner. Common examples of such anthropomorphisms involve animals and pets, especially dogs and cats. These domesticated species are sometimes considered to behave like us and think like us, becoming pseudo-human.

    You just impose your false conception that they behave the same way we do.  They don't.  But of course if you see similarities between you and RAT behavior then I would understand.  That's probably why you insist.  You find so much in common with lab rats.  :lol:  But it doesn't mean it's the same for all of us :lol:
  • logitextlogitext PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    ElCid said:
    logitext said:
    ElCid said:

    We are talking about science.  Microbiology is a science.  

    We are specifically talking about animals that have emotions. 
    They don't have emotions.  As already pointed out - what you're doing is just anthropomorphism:

    Dogs have no fear?
    Dogs have no anger?
    Dogs have no happiness?
    Dogs have no love?

    Some animals have emotions, according to science. As already pointed out so many times.


  • ElCidElCid PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    logitext said:

    Dogs have no fear?
    Dogs have no anger?
    Dogs have no happiness?
    Dogs have no love?

    Some animals have emotions, according to science. As already pointed out so many times.
    I know you wanna believe that animals like a RAT is very much like you :lol: but we disagree.  That is only anthropomorphism on your part and again here is the evidence:

    Anthropomorphism in science

    It is a human characteristic to assign human emotion and behaviour to other living creatures. Yet anthropocentrism may well have ‘infected' microbiology and misdirected research.

    It is a common characteristic of our species to assign human emotion and behaviour to other creatures and even inanimate objects—just ask any car owner. Common examples of such anthropomorphisms involve animals and pets, especially dogs and cats. These domesticated species are sometimes considered to behave like us and think like us, becoming pseudo-human.

    You already lost this debate.  :lol:

  • logitextlogitext PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    edited June 10 #26
    ^ Amigo, if you cant consider as emotions what appears to be fear, anger & love that animals display, 
    THEN WHAT ARE THEY? Be sure to provide scientific evidence to your answer.
  • ElCidElCid PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    edited June 11 #27
    logitext said:
    ^ Amigo, if you cant consider as emotions what appears to be fear, anger & love that animals display, 
    THEN WHAT ARE THEY? Be sure to provide scientific evidence to your answer.
    The evidence here that what you are doing is ANTHROPOMORPHISM IS HIGHLIGHTED.  It just APPEARS TO BE. Bingo! You don't know what really goes on in the mind of an animal in the same way that you don't know what goes on inside the head of a human.  This is already explained but you find it hard to accept of course :lol:

    Anthropomorphism in science

    It is a human characteristic to assign human emotion and behaviour to other living creatures. Yet anthropocentrism may well have ‘infected' microbiology and misdirected research.

    It is a common characteristic of our species to assign human emotion and behaviour to other creatures and even inanimate objects—just ask any car owner. Common examples of such anthropomorphisms involve animals and pets, especially dogs and cats. These domesticated species are sometimes considered to behave like us and think like us, becoming pseudo-human.


    One thing is certain, they are anything but emotions.  Here is another scientist saying the same thing:


    VANCOUVER, British Columbia — Animals and humans feel emotions very differently, so much so that it makes human emotions harder to study, according to a neuroscientist.

    "When we see a cat purring or a dog wagging its tail in joy, we shouldn't expect that it's feeling what we are feeling when we experience joy," Joseph LeDoux, a neuroscientist at New York University, said on Feb. 18 in a talk at the American Association for the Advancement of Science annual meeting. "I'm not saying other animals don’t have feelings, just that they are different between different species of animals."

    "Everyone knows what emotion is until they are asked to define it," LeDoux said. "There is in fact little consensus in psychology or neurology about what emotion is, and how it differs from other aspects of mind and behavior."

    In truth, researchers tend to fake their understanding of emotions, LeDoux said. They depend on insights from personal experiences to determine that some mental states have certain ‘‘feelings’’ associated with them and others do not, which we call "emotions."

    These shaky definitions are problematic even when just studying emotions in humans (who have 37 English words for feelings related to fear); these problems are compounded when we try to study human emotions in animals.

    Survival circuits

    Instead of trying to compare animals and humans researchers should study the "survival circuits" behind behaviors. Studies in animals can find survival circuits universal to mammals, like fear and hunger.

    https://www.livescience.com/5356-vacuum-cleaner-senses-human-emotions.html

  • logitextlogitext PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    edited June 11 #28
    ElCid said:


    One thing is certain, they are anything but emotions.  Here is another scientist saying the same thing:


    VANCOUVER, British Columbia — Animals and humans feel emotions very differently, so much so that it makes human emotions harder to study, according to a neuroscientist.

    "When we see a cat purring or a dog wagging its tail in joy, we shouldn't expect that it's feeling what we are feeling when we experience joy," Joseph LeDoux, a neuroscientist at New York University, said on Feb. 18 in a talk at the American Association for the Advancement of Science annual meeting. "I'm not saying other animals don’t have feelings, just that they are different between different species of animals."

    "Everyone knows what emotion is until they are asked to define it," LeDoux said. "There is in fact little consensus in psychology or neurology about what emotion is, and how it differs from other aspects of mind and behavior."

    In truth, researchers tend to fake their understanding of emotions, LeDoux said. They depend on insights from personal experiences to determine that some mental states have certain ‘‘feelings’’ associated with them and others do not, which we call "emotions."

    These shaky definitions are problematic even when just studying emotions in humans (who have 37 English words for feelings related to fear); these problems are compounded when we try to study human emotions in animals.

    Survival circuits

    Instead of trying to compare animals and humans researchers should study the "survival circuits" behind behaviors. Studies in animals can find survival circuits universal to mammals, like fear and hunger.

    https://www.livescience.com/5356-vacuum-cleaner-senses-human-emotions.html



    Amigo, your sources technically acknowleded animals have emotions! Its just different from how we feel them.

     "I'm not saying other animals don’t have feelings, just that they are different between different species of animals."

    Nice try, but try again. Good luck.
  • ElCidElCid PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    logitext said:
    Amigo, your sources technically acknowleded animals have emotions! Its just different from how we feel them.

     "I'm not saying other animals don’t have feelings, just that they are different between different species of animals."

    Nice try, but try again. Good luck.
    It's clear that you have comprehension problems.  This is again evidence :lol:  There is little or no consensus about what HUMAN EMOTION IS let alone those of an animal:

    "Everyone knows what emotion is until they are asked to define it," LeDoux said. "There is in fact little consensus in psychology or neurology about what emotion is, and how it differs from other aspects of mind and behavior."

    Again, your brain is addled.  It only sees what it wants to see which is not even there to see :lol:.  But the fact is nobody really knows that goes inside the mind of a person let alone an animal.  People assign emotions even to their pets like you do and to inanimate objects :lol:

    It is a common characteristic of our species to assign human emotion and behaviour to other creatures and even inanimate objects—just ask any car owner. Common examples of such anthropomorphisms involve animals and pets, especially dogs and cats. 

    The evidence speaks for itself and is evident to everyone else who has no comprehension problems like you do :lol:  That actually nails your argument in the head:
    logitext said:
    Dogs have no fear?
    Dogs have no anger?
    Dogs have no happiness?
    Dogs have no love?
    What you're doing is just anthropomorphism.  =) Researchers even assign emotions to their cars :lol:  
  • logitextlogitext PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    edited June 11 #30
    ElCid said:
    logitext said:
    Amigo, your sources technically acknowleded animals have emotions! Its just different from how we feel them.

     "I'm not saying other animals don’t have feelings, just that they are different between different species of animals."

    Nice try, but try again. Good luck.
    It's clear that you have comprehension problems.  This is again evidence :lol:  There is little or no consensus about what HUMAN EMOTION IS let alone those of an animal:

    "Everyone knows what emotion is until they are asked to define it," LeDoux said. "There is in fact little consensus in psychology or neurology about what emotion is, and how it differs from other aspects of mind and behavior."

    Again, your brain is addled.  It only sees what it wants to see which is not even there to see :lol:.  But the fact is nobody really knows that goes inside the mind of a person let alone an animal.  People assign emotions even to their pets like you do and to inanimate objects :lol:

    It is a common characteristic of our species to assign human emotion and behaviour to other creatures and even inanimate objects—just ask any car owner. Common examples of such anthropomorphisms involve animals and pets, especially dogs and cats. 

    The evidence speaks for itself and is evident to everyone else who has no comprehension problems like you do :lol:  That actually nails your argument in the head:
    logitext said:
    Dogs have no fear?
    Dogs have no anger?
    Dogs have no happiness?
    Dogs have no love?
    What you're doing is just anthropomorphism.  =) Researchers even assign emotions to their cars :lol:  

    Psychology does not have an agreement on the formal definition emotion, so what? That means we dont have emotions? :lol:
  • ElCidElCid PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    edited June 11 #31
    logitext said:

    Psychology does not have an agreement on the formal definition emotion, so what? That means we dont have emotions? :lol:
    Again this is comprehension issues on your part.  If the scientific knowledge about a certain issue is lacking, therefore you cannot claim that your view that animals have emotions are scientific - no evidence for it yet.  At least now you are closer to understanding the text cited.  I am very happy for you but your point of view that your dog has the emotion for fear, anger, happiness and love is just anthropomorphism at this point in time based on scientific evidence. :lol:
  • logitextlogitext PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    ElCid said:
    logitext said:

    Psychology does not have an agreement on the formal definition emotion, so what? That means we dont have emotions? :lol:
    Again this is comprehension issues on your part.  If the scientific knowledge about a certain issue is lacking, therefore you cannot claim that your view that animals have emotions are scientific - no evidence for it yet.  At least now you are closer to understanding the text cited.  I am very happy for you but your point of view that your dog has the emotion for fear, anger, happiness and love is just anthropomorphism at this point in time based on scientific evidence. :lol:

    So you admit that we have emotions, even though science has not declared a formal definition of 'emotion'.

    The same is true with animals.
    The fact is they have emotions, even though science has not declared a formal definition of 'emotion'.

    You are just misinterpreting your own sources.

  • ElCidElCid PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    edited June 12 #33
    logitext said:
    ElCid said:
    logitext said:

    Psychology does not have an agreement on the formal definition emotion, so what? That means we dont have emotions? :lol:
    Again this is comprehension issues on your part.  If the scientific knowledge about a certain issue is lacking, therefore you cannot claim that your view that animals have emotions are scientific - no evidence for it yet.  At least now you are closer to understanding the text cited.  I am very happy for you but your point of view that your dog has the emotion for fear, anger, happiness and love is just anthropomorphism at this point in time based on scientific evidence. :lol:

    So you admit that we have emotions, even though science has not declared a formal definition of 'emotion'.

    The same is true with animals.
    The fact is they have emotions, even though science has not declared a formal definition of 'emotion'.

    You are just misinterpreting your own sources.

    I can see the sun even before I went to school logitext.  It is stup!d on your part that everything in your world only becomes a fact upon declaration of a scientist.  Wow. :lol:.  I don't know about you but I have feelings. So based on my own experience and perceptions is that I have emotions.  But extending that to animals is only a ASSUMPTION ON YOUR PART since nobody can get into the mind of an animal.  I am not misinterpreting logitext - you just have a thick skull.  You already lost in this thread.  What you're doing is just anthropomorphism.  Your very example even falls into the description of what anthropomorphism is :lol:

    logitext said:
    Dogs have no fear?
    Dogs have no anger?
    Dogs have no happiness?
    Dogs have no love?

    It is a common characteristic of our species to assign human emotion and behaviour to other creatures and even inanimate objects—just ask any car owner. Common examples of such anthropomorphisms involve animals and pets, especially dogs and cats

    People assign emotions and behavior even to inanimate objects :lol: I am sorry but you lose again. Having common sense is free, try getting one one of these days ok? :lol:
  • logitextlogitext PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    ElCid said:

    It is stup!d on your part that everything in your world only becomes a fact upon declaration of a scientist.  Wow. :lol:.

    I told you, people knew long before science that Animals have feelings, emotions. Its not an extension of ourselves, just plain common sense observation. 

    Youre too dense to accept this fact, your loss. 
  • ElCidElCid PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    edited June 12 #35
    logitext said:

    I told you, people knew long before science that Animals have feelings, emotions. Its not an extension of ourselves, just plain common sense observation. 

    Youre too dense to accept this fact, your loss. 
    I am just amaze that you really have a thick skull with an armor far better than an impermeable German Tiger Tank in WWII :lol:.  

    It is a common characteristic of our species to assign human emotion and behaviour to other creatures and even inanimate objects—just ask any car owner. Common examples of such anthropomorphisms involve animals and pets, especially dogs and cats. 


    The entire human species assign human emotion and behavior to other creatures.  It doesn't mean that they do. Have your dog told you that he is sad? No - you just assume that he is since you assign to your dog human emotions. Simple.  There is no scientific evidence whatsoever that is why now you backtrack and use ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE instead.  You are so pathetic and predictable :lol:.  I am really amazed in the multitude of ways you create bullsh!t in every post :lol:

    You again lose in this thread.
  • logitextlogitext PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    edited June 12 #36
    ElCid said:
    logitext said:

    I told you, people knew long before science that Animals have feelings, emotions. Its not an extension of ourselves, just plain common sense observation. 

    Youre too dense to accept this fact, your loss. 
    I am just amaze that you really have a thick skull with an armor far better than an impermeable German Tiger Tank in WWII :lol:.  


    Speak for yourself, Mr Projector. :lol:


    I'm telling you, its your loss. Tell this bull$hit (that animals have no emotions) youve been telling me here to other people, they will think youre an idiot. :lol:
  • ElCidElCid PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    edited June 12 #37
    You already lost since you backtracked and turned from scientific evidence to anecdotal :lol:.  Since you can't find any solid scientific evidence, now you just turn to your neighbor's opinion.  Other people, like you assign human emotion and behavior to animals even to inanimate objects.  So the id!ot here is you since what you're just saying is confirmation of that fact that:

    It is a common characteristic of our species to assign human emotion and behaviour to other creatures and even inanimate objects—just ask any car owner. Common examples of such anthropomorphisms involve animals and pets, especially dogs and cats. 

    We cannot do that because you're not a dog or cat but a rat :lol:

    "When we see a cat purring or a dog wagging its tail in joy, we shouldn't expect that it's feeling what we are feeling when we experience joy," Joseph LeDoux, a neuroscientist at New York University, said on Feb. 18 in a talk at the American Association for the Advancement of Science annual meeting. 

    You already lost this debate.  Ask your neighbor as well.  Based on evidence presented.  :lol:  And this is worse - you are insisting you are correct not because you said so but based on other people's opinion.  Way to go logitext wahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahahhahahahahahahahahaahahah.
  • logitextlogitext PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    scientific evidence? what do you call these:

    One of the most complex and integral emotions is empathy, the ability to understand and share the feelings of those around us. Humans display empathy toward other humans and animals alike. Do animals do the same? Research points to yes.
    https://online.uwa.edu/news/empathy-in-animals/#:~:text=Animals display empathy toward humans,harm at their own expense.


    Just as empathy is vital for human relations, so too could empathy be critical for other social animals, and there is a compelling body of behavioral research to support this.
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/the-new-brain/202103/do-animals-feel-empathy


    “Pets show love by being excited to see us, by greeting us, by vocalizing in ways that show us they’re excited to see us, by spending time with us and seeking us out to be with us,” said Margaret Gruen, an assistant professor of behavioral medicine in NC State’s College of Veterinary Medicine.
    https://news.ncsu.edu/2019/02/how-do-pets-show-love/





    No, amigo, its you who lost
  • ElCidElCid PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    You already shifted to anecdotal evidence that is why you lost.  You flip flopped - wavered :lol:.   And there is evidence to the contrary.  And again, what you consider as scientific evidence is already always suspicious since you consider as scientific evidence the blog of a senior high school student :lol:.   

    And to say that animals are living moral lives like we do is laughable:  you will need to prove that they can distinguish good and evil.  Try putting your head between the jaws of an alligator to find out if it indeed lives a moral life :lol:
  • logitextlogitext PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    ElCid said:
    You already shifted to anecdotal evidence that is why you lost.  
    Good luck telling those univerisities they are using "anecdotal evidence".
    Elcid, you are pathetic. :lol:


    ElCid said:

    And there is evidence to the contrary.  

    Which one? The one about microbiology that you took out of context? :lol:




  • ElCidElCid PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    edited June 15 #41
    What university are you talking about?  This is just you:

    logitext said:
    I'm telling you, its your loss. Tell this bull$hit (that animals have no emotions) youve been telling me here to other people, they will think youre an idiot. lol

    You even consider the blog of a highschool student as "scientific evidence".  Bullsh!t logitext :lol:  And I have already cited evidence that what you're doing is just anthropomorphism.  Nobody can get into the mind of another person let alone an animal.  What we can tell from the outside is just other organism have consciousness and a mind for survival.  But saying that they have emotions would be too much.  

    It is a common characteristic of our species to assign human emotion and behaviour to other creatures and even inanimate objects—just ask any car owner. Common examples of such anthropomorphisms involve animals and pets, especially dogs and cats. 

    "When we see a cat purring or a dog wagging its tail in joy, we shouldn't expect that it's feeling what we are feeling when we experience joy," Joseph LeDoux, a neuroscientist at New York University, said on Feb. 18 in a talk at the American Association for the Advancement of Science annual meeting. 
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