Debunking The Trinity (INC's Doctrine FROM THE BIBLE)
KidlatNgayon
Member
Most Christian-professing religions believe in the Trinity. As we all know this is the God-the-Father, God-the-Son, God-the Holy-Spirit nature of the One God. The doctrine of the Trinity supports a Triune God or Three-Persons-in-One God doctrine.
So far, and in these RoT threads, I have learned two types of Trinity.
The first one is, of course, the original Roman Catholic doctrine of the three persons in One God. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit - they are different in nature but are the same and equal in power which compose the One God, according to their Cathecism. So there are three that compose One God, according to them.
The second type is the One God who changes Himself to the Father, the Son or the Holy Spirit according to the need or work that God has to do. In other words, the One God plays the role of the Father, the role of the Son and the role of the Holy Spirit depending on the situation He is in. This one is Aida's group's stance.
I will debunk Aida's group's stance first. By the way, this group is not a religion, according to them, or maybe, they just don't understand what religion means. The word religion is in the bible, by the way.
Aida's group is fond of using KJV version of the bible so here's how KJV bible dictionary defines "religion":
KJV Dictionary Definition: religion
religion
RELIGION, n. relij'on. L. religio, from religo, to bind anew; re and ligo, to bind. This word seems originally to have signified an oath or vow to the gods, or the obligation of such an oath or vow, which was held very sacred by the Romans.
1. Religion, in its most comprehensive sense, includes a belief in the being and perfections of God, in the revelation of his will to man, in man's obligation to obey his commands, in a state of reward and punishment, and in man's accountableness to God; and also true godliness or piety of life, with the practice of all moral duties. It therefore comprehends theology, as a system of doctrines or principles, as well as practical piety; for the practice of moral duties without a belief in a divine lawgiver, and without reference to his will or commands, is not religion.
2. Religion, as distinct from theology, is godliness or real piety in practice, consisting in the performance of all known duties to God and our fellow men, in obedience to divine command, or from love to God and his law. James 1.
3. Religion, as distinct from virtue, or morality, consists in the performance of the duties we owe directly to God, from a principle of obedience to his will. Hence we often speak of religion and virtue, as different branches of one system, or the duties of the first and second tables of the law.
Let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion.
4. Any system of faith and worship. In this sense, religion comprehends the belief and worship of pagans and Mohammedans, as well as of christians; any religion consisting in the belief of a superior power or powers governing the world, and in the worship of such power or powers. Thus we speak of the religion of the Turks, of the Hindoos, of the Indians, &c. as well as of the christian religion. We speak of false religion, as well as of true religion.
5. The rites of religion; in the plural.
http://av1611.com/kjbp/kjv-dictionary/religion.html
So, Aida, I don't really understand why you won't call your group a religion but it's not for me to touch it.
So far, and in these RoT threads, I have learned two types of Trinity.
The first one is, of course, the original Roman Catholic doctrine of the three persons in One God. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit - they are different in nature but are the same and equal in power which compose the One God, according to their Cathecism. So there are three that compose One God, according to them.
The second type is the One God who changes Himself to the Father, the Son or the Holy Spirit according to the need or work that God has to do. In other words, the One God plays the role of the Father, the role of the Son and the role of the Holy Spirit depending on the situation He is in. This one is Aida's group's stance.
I will debunk Aida's group's stance first. By the way, this group is not a religion, according to them, or maybe, they just don't understand what religion means. The word religion is in the bible, by the way.
Aida's group is fond of using KJV version of the bible so here's how KJV bible dictionary defines "religion":
KJV Dictionary Definition: religion
religion
RELIGION, n. relij'on. L. religio, from religo, to bind anew; re and ligo, to bind. This word seems originally to have signified an oath or vow to the gods, or the obligation of such an oath or vow, which was held very sacred by the Romans.
1. Religion, in its most comprehensive sense, includes a belief in the being and perfections of God, in the revelation of his will to man, in man's obligation to obey his commands, in a state of reward and punishment, and in man's accountableness to God; and also true godliness or piety of life, with the practice of all moral duties. It therefore comprehends theology, as a system of doctrines or principles, as well as practical piety; for the practice of moral duties without a belief in a divine lawgiver, and without reference to his will or commands, is not religion.
2. Religion, as distinct from theology, is godliness or real piety in practice, consisting in the performance of all known duties to God and our fellow men, in obedience to divine command, or from love to God and his law. James 1.
3. Religion, as distinct from virtue, or morality, consists in the performance of the duties we owe directly to God, from a principle of obedience to his will. Hence we often speak of religion and virtue, as different branches of one system, or the duties of the first and second tables of the law.
Let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion.
4. Any system of faith and worship. In this sense, religion comprehends the belief and worship of pagans and Mohammedans, as well as of christians; any religion consisting in the belief of a superior power or powers governing the world, and in the worship of such power or powers. Thus we speak of the religion of the Turks, of the Hindoos, of the Indians, &c. as well as of the christian religion. We speak of false religion, as well as of true religion.
5. The rites of religion; in the plural.
http://av1611.com/kjbp/kjv-dictionary/religion.html
So, Aida, I don't really understand why you won't call your group a religion but it's not for me to touch it.
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According to Aida's Group, Jesus can become the Father, the Son or the Holy Spirit.
This reminds me of something someone once told me that God is like water that can turn into ice and vapor. So water can manifest in three states or elements - the liquid (water), solid (ice) and gas (vapor) states.
This person goes on to tell me, "O di ba? Iba-iba pero tubig pa rin - H2O!"
And for whatever reason, Jesus Christ (God) does this as necessitated by the work He does. So necessary na gawin ng Diyos ito para magawa Niya ang dapat Niyang gawin? Meaning ang nagagawa ng Ama ay hindi magagawa ng Anak na hindi magagawa ng Espiritu Santo. Samakatuwid, sa Trinidad nina Aida, hindi pantay-pantay ang tatlong elementong ito at hindi pare-pareho ang kapangyarihan Nila! Tama ba Aida?
Ang problema lang ay ang sinasabi sa biblia na HINDI NAGBABAGO ang Diyos at si Cristo ay siyang Cristo kahapon, ngayon at magpakailanman. Ibig sabihin ay hindi nagbabago si Cristo, pareho ng Diyos.
Malachi 3:6
King James Bible
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
James 1:17
King James Bible
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Hebrews 13:8
King James Bible
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Ayon din sa biblia, isinusugo ng Ama at maging ni Cristo ang Espiritu Santo. Isinusugo, meaning inuutusan.
Ano bang nangyayari pag nagsusugo o nag-uutos ka? Meron kang assistant na gagawin ang gusto mong ipagawa, di ba Aida? Ang Diyos ba na nagsusugo ay nagpe-pretend na may isinusugo Siya pero Siya rin yun?
Eto na muna at tingnan natin ang ipapaliwanang ni Aida sa kanilang idea ng Trinidad. 0 -
KidlatNgayon wrote: »According to Aida's Group, Jesus can become the Father, the Son or the Holy Spirit.
This reminds me of something someone once told me that God is like water that can turn into ice and vapor. So water can manifest in three states or elements - the liquid (water), solid (ice) and gas (vapor) states.
This person goes on to tell me, "O di ba? Iba-iba pero tubig pa rin - H2O!"
And for whatever reason, Jesus Christ (God) does this as necessitated by the work He does. So necessary na gawin ng Diyos ito para magawa Niya ang dapat Niyang gawin? Meaning ang nagagawa ng Ama ay hindi magagawa ng Anak na hindi magagawa ng Espiritu Santo. Samakatuwid, sa Trinidad nina Aida, hindi pantay-pantay ang tatlong elementong ito at hindi pare-pareho ang kapangyarihan Nila! Tama ba Aida?
Ang problema lang ay ang sinasabi sa biblia na HINDI NAGBABAGO ang Diyos at si Cristo ay siyang Cristo kahapon, ngayon at magpakailanman. Ibig sabihin ay hindi nagbabago si Cristo, pareho ng Diyos.
Malachi 3:6
King James Bible
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
James 1:17
King James Bible
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Hebrews 13:8
King James Bible
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Ayon din sa biblia, isinusugo ng Ama at maging ni Cristo ang Espiritu Santo. Isinusugo, meaning inuutusan.
Ano bang nangyayari pag nagsusugo o nag-uutos ka? Meron kang assistant na gagawin ang gusto mong ipagawa, di ba Aida? Ang Diyos ba na nagsusugo ay nagpe-pretend na may isinusugo Siya pero Siya rin yun?
Eto na muna at tingnan natin ang ipapaliwanang ni Aida sa kanilang idea ng Trinidad.
Com'on Kidlat. God can do anything...don't underestimate Him.
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KidlatNgayon wrote: »He can do anything but that is not His way so He did not do it that way. The bible is very explicit on how God accomplishes His work.
why limit God with your own definition? God is not bound by any protocols or rules set by humans like you.0 -
HermesTrismegistus wrote: »why limit God with your own definition? God is not bound by any protocols or rules set by humans like you.
This is not my own definition! How can any one define God?
I am basing this from the bible that God will not pretend to be human on earth. He will not deceive people because He is not a liar and deceiver:
Numbers 23:19
English Standard Version
God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?
Romans 3:4
New Living Translation
Of course not! Even if everyone else is a liar, God is true. As the Scriptures say about him, "You will be proved right in what you say, and you will win your case in court."
God will not turn Himself into a man because He already declared that He is not man:
Hosea 11:9
King James Bible
I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city.0 -
When God, Christ and the Holy Spirit were manifested together
Here is a biblical event when the Father (God), Son (Christ) and the Holy Spirit were together.
This was during Jesus Christ's baptism by John the Baptist:
Luke 3:21-22
21 When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as He was praying, heaven was opened, 22 and the Holy Spirit descended on Him in a bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.
So in this one instance, all three - God (Father), Christ and the Holy Spirit MANIFESTED THEMSELVES. Jesus did not have any chance to take the role of each one! It is very clear here that Christ is different from God and different from the Holy Spirit. God is different from the Holy Spirit and Christ. The Holy Spirit is different from God and Christ! That's how simple it is!
John the Baptist also gave his testimony:
JOhn 1:31 I myself did not know Him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that He might be revealed to Israel. 32 Then John testified, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove and resting on Him. 33 I myself did not know Him, but the One who sent me to baptize with water told me, The man on whom you see the Spirit descend and rest is He who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.0 -
Hoping much that the thread would not degrade into character assassinations, sarcasms, name callings,and arrogant offensives but instead stays as what it is based from the TS's first post.KidlatNgayon wrote: »Most Christian-professing religions believe in the Trinity. As we all know this is the God-the-Father, God-the-Son, God-the Holy-Spirit nature of the One God. The doctrine of the Trinity supports a Triune God or Three-Persons-in-One God doctrine.
So far, and in these RoT threads, I have learned two types of Trinity.
The first one is, of course, the original Roman Catholic doctrine of the three persons in One God. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit - they are different in nature but are the same and equal in power which compose the One God, according to their Cathecism. So there are three that compose One God, according to them.
The second type is the One God who changes Himself to the Father, the Son or the Holy Spirit according to the need or work that God has to do. In other words, the One God plays the role of the Father, the role of the Son and the role of the Holy Spirit depending on the situation He is in. This one is Aida's group's stance.
I will debunk Aida's group's stance first. By the way, this group is not a religion, according to them, or maybe, they just don't understand what religion means. The word religion is in the bible, by the way.
Aida's group is fond of using KJV version of the bible so here's how KJV bible dictionary defines "religion":
KJV Dictionary Definition: religion
religion
RELIGION, n. relij'on. L. religio, from religo, to bind anew; re and ligo, to bind. This word seems originally to have signified an oath or vow to the gods, or the obligation of such an oath or vow, which was held very sacred by the Romans.
1. Religion, in its most comprehensive sense, includes a belief in the being and perfections of God, in the revelation of his will to man, in man's obligation to obey his commands, in a state of reward and punishment, and in man's accountableness to God; and also true godliness or piety of life, with the practice of all moral duties. It therefore comprehends theology, as a system of doctrines or principles, as well as practical piety; for the practice of moral duties without a belief in a divine lawgiver, and without reference to his will or commands, is not religion.
2. Religion, as distinct from theology, is godliness or real piety in practice, consisting in the performance of all known duties to God and our fellow men, in obedience to divine command, or from love to God and his law. James 1.
3. Religion, as distinct from virtue, or morality, consists in the performance of the duties we owe directly to God, from a principle of obedience to his will. Hence we often speak of religion and virtue, as different branches of one system, or the duties of the first and second tables of the law.
Let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion.
4. Any system of faith and worship. In this sense, religion comprehends the belief and worship of pagans and Mohammedans, as well as of christians; any religion consisting in the belief of a superior power or powers governing the world, and in the worship of such power or powers. Thus we speak of the religion of the Turks, of the Hindoos, of the Indians, &c. as well as of the christian religion. We speak of false religion, as well as of true religion.
5. The rites of religion; in the plural.
http://av1611.com/kjbp/kjv-dictionary/religion.html
So, Aida, I don't really understand why you won't call your group a religion but it's not for me to touch it.
[highlight]Aida, being one of our brethren is always too busy translating into vernacular and consolidating on what are being shared within our fellowship assembly aside from rebutting literal interpretations here about GOD's infallible WORDS written and revealed by only HIMSELF within the realm of HIS SPIRITUAL TRUTH upon the sole of isaiah 28:10's guidance.
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Starting below is not just the motherhood word of religion but must be Pure from GOD's infallible WORDS as discerned by our brethren
Haven't seen anyone so happy asking a question for quite awhile before this. Any way here is the answer to your question. It's long but it's the shortest answer to your question.magaling3x wrote: »wee, anu po ba religion mo ate aida?PURE RELIGION
God through His words in the Holy Bible defines Pure Religion as:
James 1:26-27 (KJV) If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this mans religion is vain. Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
Denominations composing Christianity, a religion relying on the Holy Bible as spiritual authority, are one in the interpretation of Pure Religion. As defined in the verses, it means loving and caring for the orphans and the widows who are most materially and emotionally in need. The establishment and maintenance of the following non-profit institutions, aside from individual good works, are the results of this rendition: Hospitals, Orphanages, Home for unwed mothers, Home for the aged, Adult training programs, Different charitable institutions and organizations.
Attending to the material needs, aside from emotional guidance, of the unfortunate people is the perceived fruition of Pure Religion. It is with this human understanding that ecumenism or the unity of Christian denominations is hatched under the aegis of love. In reality, however, they cannot be truly united because of variances in doctrines.
A glimpse of the deeper meaning
God is represented by His words (John 1:1) and Jesus Christ is the Word of God (Revelation 19:13 ). Simply stated, God should be the sole authority to speak for HIMSELF through His words! The topic will demonstrate how God explains His words. These are some points in the verses that God has to elucidate to clearly understand PURE RELIGION from His point of view:
James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
KEEPING REIN ON ONES TONGUE
Mans perception of keeping rein on ones tongue is to speak only on a subject known under appropriate circumstances. To God, speaking on something only He is the sole authority is not keeping rein on ones tongue. Examples: The Scribes or Teachers of the Law during the time of Christ expounded on the words of God and people followed them. Our Lord said, blind guides followed by the blind.
Christ spoke in parables. Not one of the apostles opened the mouth to explain the parables. Only Christ should explain His words that are expressed in parables (Mark 4:34,KJV).
God is the author of His words and only He is the authority to explain the great message. Who among the people today keep rein on the tongue? The dictate of the heart, however, tempts people to take the role of Christ by explaining the words of God:
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
God is represented by His words
God is a Spirit (John 4:24 ). Because He cannot directly relate to His chosen, He had to represent Himself through His words (John 1:1). This was revealed to Paul when he wrote, " For we know that the law is spiritual (Romans 7:14)
To show the Way and reveal the Life to His words, God manifested Himself in the flesh.
1 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh
This was prophesied and fulfilled in the person of JESUS CHRIST (Isaiah 7:14):
Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Accordingly, God in the person of Jesus Christ explains everything for He is the Word of God (Revelation. 19:13 ). Our Lord did this when He was with His disciples:
Mark 4:34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.
The parables are the spiritual components of the words, that only the Word can explain. This truth had long been revealed to the chosen in Psalms 78:2 and Ezekiel 20:49.
If Jesus Christ is a physical being called the Word of God in Revelation. 19:13, and God is the Word in John 1:1), then we perceive the words of God as consisting of the letter/physical and the spirit/spiritual.
The letter or literal in the words of God corresponds to Jesus, a physical being. Just as Jesus was visible, so is the letter understood with the LITERAL LANGUAGE of man. The spiritual component representing the Father has to be explained by the words, just as God is identified by divine revelation.
Truth therefore is composed of the letter or literal/physical and the spirit/spiritual in the words. The literal-physical varies with time and culture of the people. The spiritual is immutable, representing the immutable God (Malachi 3:6). The Spirit God is Truth; as Jesus, the man, is Truth. The fact that Jesus accepted worship proves that He is truly the visible representation of God (Colossians 1:15 , 2:9, John 14:7).
Hebrew 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,)
God made a Testament for the salvation of the chosen. This culminated with the shedding of blood on the cross.
1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us
The letter must die
Just as Jesus died on the cross, so should the letter in the word that He represents must also die with Him Colossians 2:14).
The handwriting of ordinances refers to the letter of the law which, standing alone, cannot represent the truth. This is what Jesus said regarding this:
John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
The letter has to die as Jesus died in order to rise again taking the spiritual nature.
Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Jesus requires another witness to prove Him to be Truth. Aside from Him is the Father Who should testify to the Truth.
John 5:31 If I (Jesus = literal word) bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. 32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he (Father = spiritual word) witnesseth of me is true.
Very clearly therefore, Truth in the words of God requires the LITERAL WORD representing Jesus, and the SPIRITUAL WORD representing the Father. Correspondingly, simply knowing the PHYSICAL JESUS is not enough to clearly recognize Him, for it needs the identity of the Father as well John 8:19).
Here is the rebuke for not recognizing God by simply looking at the PHYSICAL JESUS, in spite of what is written about Him Emmanuel or God with us:
John 8:54 Jesus answered it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: 55 Yet ye have not known him
Seeing Christ without His clear identification follows the non-recognition of the Father. Correspondingly, since Jesus represents the letter in the word, simply understanding the literal meaning does not necessarily follow the clear comprehension of the great spiritual message that the Father represents. That is how our Lord exposed the religious people in His time. He called them, Blind guides leading the blind. Today, who can claim clear recognition of God if Jesus is truly identified?
Recognizing the physical Christ therefore is not enough. We have also to identify the spiritual Christ. These two are one and constitute the Truth. The Spirit God, the Father, and Emmanuel, God with us, the Son, are the TWO WITNESSES to the Truth. A guide to the truth was revealed in the Old Testament:
Deuteronomy 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.
Since God is the Word (John 1:1) and Jesus Christ is the Word of God (Revelation 19:13 ), the TWO WITNESSES therefore are the LITERAL and the SPIRITUAL word. Without Emmanuel God could not have been seen (John 14:7), is equivalent to, without the literal word God could not have communicated with His chosen. Just as the Spirit God and Emmanuel are one (John 10:30), so also the spiritual word cannot be separated from the literal word that establishes the truth. The third witness refers to the Holy Spirit that gives life to the words.
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Here we can see the Spirit God uttering the Word that represents Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit giving life to the words. The literal word is quickened or given life by the Holy Spirits revelation through the very words (1 Corinthians 2:12-13):
VISIT THE FATHERLESS AND WIDOWS IN THEIR AFFLICTION.
If to the Natural Man the fatherless are the orphans whose physical fathers had died, Jesus revealed the spiritual father in the following:
JOHN 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil he abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar
The fatherless therefore refer to people who found the TRUTH that now Satan, the father, had died in their life. These are the spiritual orphans who need to be visited and be fed with the Living Bread or the pure word of God (Jeremiah 15:16). This presupposes that eventually, it is God Who will take care and feed them with His spiritual words. God is the actual giver, and the chosen are only the messengers.
The widows in the LANGUAGE OF MAN are women whose husbands had died. In the SPIRITUAL LANGUAGE OF GOD, the husband refers to SATAN. This is deduced from the following where God is supposed to be the spiritual husband. (see also Jer. 3:14)
ISAIAH 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name
The seeds of God are the truth in His words (Luke 8:11). The seeds of Satan are the deceptions in the words of God. Satan showed that he could cite Bible verses (Matthew 4:6). During the time of our Lord, the spiritual wife of God were the Disciples who only received His seeds. The Pharisees and Sadducees, the religious sects at that time, who followed the Teachers of the Law could not have been the wife of God for they had been receiving seeds that were not of God. This is gleaned from the warning of our Lord:
MATTHEW 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them (Disciples), Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
MATTHEW 16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
Doctrines contradictory to what is written in the Holy Bible although supported by Bible verses could not have come from God. These are the leaven of bread spoken of by our Lord.
The widows are physical male and female (Galatians 3:28), who had been receiving strange seeds or leaven in the word. These are the condemned human precepts and religious traditions (Colossians 2:8). Cessation from receiving these strange seeds makes them spiritual widows of the enemy of God. Satan now had died in their life. Like the fatherless, they need to be visited, taken to the household of God, and be also fed with the Living Bread or the pure word of God.
The affliction of the widows and fatherless is their spiritual isolation and persecution by the sons and wives of Satan. Jesus Christ warned His disciples, a type of the fatherless and widows:
JOHN 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. 3And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.
Whosoever killeth you does not necessarily mean physical death, but [B]murder in spirit. [/B]
KEEP ONESELF UNSPOTTED FROM THE WORLD
In the LANGUAGE OF MAN, world refers to worldliness and the sin of the flesh taken literally in the following and in the Ten Commandments Galatians 5:19).
Christ will explain whether the literal obedience is all to the commandments.
Luke 18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 19And Jesus said unto him Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother. 21And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
The Ruler must have physically avoided sins when he told our Lord: all these have I kept from my youth up ( Luke 18:21 ). Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me (Luke 18:22 ).
Luke 18: 23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich. 24And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God ! 25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needles eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God .
If rich means literal-physical, Joseph of Arimathea a rich man in the New Testament; and Abraham, Jacob, David and Solomon, all rich men in the Old Testament, could not have attained eternal life. Therefore, who are the rich and the poor that our Lord is referring to? Here are the poor:
Matthew 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
The poor are the humble in human spirit like little children. (Matthew 18:3). They are not physical little children for the apostles were adults when our Lord called them as such. The apostles must have acted innocently in the eyes of our Lord; ignorant in their own eyes, not philosophical, and devoid of the rationality of an adult.
John 13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews
If spiritual little children or the poor in spirit are given spiritual wisdom, then the spiritually rich must be the opposite. They are not given spiritual knowledge and therefore spiritually blind. Truly so, how could the spiritually blind see the Way and follow the Truth? No wonder, Christ said, "it is easier for a camel to go through a needles eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God .
The Natural Man sees possession as referring to material wealth, land, houses, etc. To God these are the spiritual possessions to be sold: house of bondage (Exodus 20:2) and land of darkness (Job 10:21). Continuous possession of these could not have opened the eyes of the spiritually blind. These possession should be sold in order to receive proceeds of TRUTH. It is truth that should be shared to the poor in spirit. Now God made it clear who the fatherless and the widows are.
Our Lord gave another reference to spiritual possession:
Matthew 6: 21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Spiritual possession therefore is what is ensconced in the heart. In the heart of the religious people, the Scribes and Pharisees, during our Lords time was their zealousness to follow the letter of the law. Our Lord called them hypocrites. The truth is:
2 Corinthians 3:6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament ; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth , but the spirit giveth life.
Zealousness to the letter of the law makes a person self-righteous and proud. That is what the Rich Ruler bragged about before our Lord. The letter cleanses the outside of the cup only and this is limited to MORALITY (Matthew 23:26 ). Christ preached cleansing first the inside of the cup. This is SPIRITUALITY and it refers to the spiritual message of the word. This truth is the basis of the following:
Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Mans understanding is limited to the literal-physical meaning. Thus the impossibility of following the law with mans understanding:
James 2: 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
With mans limited perception, God knows nobody can follow the whole law. He wants the chosen to trust Him as little children, so He could have a free hand shaping their spiritual life. However, many people, like the Scribes and Pharisees, want to act like adults. Therefore, the curse! Hence, came this sweeping statement from our Lord:
Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
It is only to the SPIRITUAL, not physical, babes that knowledge and wisdom is endowed. Christs disciples were converted and became as little children:
John 13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said
To them therefore was endowed the wisdom not otherwise given to the Teachers of the Law who were known as the wise and prudent (Matthew 11:25):
It is to the spiritual suckling (visisted) that doctrines are taught and learned:
Isaiah 28:9 (KJV) Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
THE LITTLE CHILDREN
2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child (Humble in the eyes of God) thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation (see also Psalms 8:2)
Gods chosen were all converted and became as little children that they were blessed with a clear understanding His words. They are given the gift of faith, which alone justifies man before God. They know, with mans personal capability, that they will forever be short of Gods standard of righteousness:
Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
The law refers to the literal-physical understanding of man that limits him to the simple cleanliness on the outside or morality. Gods word goes beyond cleanliness on the outside or far above morality. The spiritual aspect delves on the cleanliness in the inside. This is SPIRITUALITY that our Lord kept on pounding to the Teachers of the Law, but they did not understand Him. God revealed that the law justifies no man. Only faith, a gift from God, can shape man into the image of the model, the man-Christ Jesus Galatians 3:11).
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Works are not the simple noble deeds or charity that man can boast about. Rather, they are the fruits of faith after having known the spiritual word. It is the spiritual walk after having found the Way, for this is what leads to eternal life (ephesians 2:10).
Cheers0 -
KidlatNgayon wrote: »He can do anything but that is not His way so He did not do it that way. The bible is very explicit on how God accomplishes His work.
This verse shows how He accomplished His works:1 John 4: 1-5
4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. 4 Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5 They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them.
By this you know the Spirit of God, that Jesus Christ (the Son of God) has come in the flesh is from God. This alone tells you about trinity. He can do what He wants and accomplishes His works. If His flesh is from God, so He must be God! Jesus is both human and Divine!
Every spirit that does not confess that Jesus is not human and Divine is not from God, but the spirit of the antichrist! 0 -
This verse shows how He accomplished His works:
By this you know the Spirit of God, that Jesus Christ (the Son of God) has come in the flesh is from God. This alone tells you about trinity. He can do what He wants and accomplishes His works. If His flesh is from God, so He must be God! Jesus is both human and Divine!
Every spirit that does not confess that Jesus is not human and Divine is not from God, but the spirit of the antichrist!
The verses say that Jesus Christ is FROM God and not God or not God the Son. We know that everything is from God!
You're like Aida, ADDING to the verse! That is not good, friend! 0 -
Your first post digressed again from that bit of cordiality due to such coupling it with
a green grin but anyway is the post below an invitation to overheat this thread?KidlatNgayon wrote: »The verses say that Jesus Christ is FROM God and not God or not God the Son. We know that everything is from God!
You're like Aida, ADDING to the verse! That is not good, friend!
Please get back on debunking our belief on what a religion is according to your claimed
inc doctrines sans philosophies, vain deceit, and rudiments of the world.
1 Cor 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God .
For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness .
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and
vain deceit , after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of
the world, and not after Christ .0 -
KidlatNgayon wrote: »The verses say that Jesus Christ is FROM God and not God or not God the Son. We know that everything is from God!
You're like Aida, ADDING to the verse! That is not good, friend!
Jesus equality with God motivated Him to humble himself to be human for the sake of sacrificing Himself for mankind.There is no addition to the verse, because we believe that incarnate Jesus is God the Son, in oneness with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. Those spirits who don't believe that Jesus is divine and human, they are the antichrist. You don't want to belong to them, do you? 0 -
The New "Trinity"0 -
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Jesus equality with God motivated Him to humble himself to be human for the sake of sacrificing Himself for mankind.There is no addition to the verse, because we believe that incarnate Jesus is God the Son, in oneness with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. Those spirits who don't believe that Jesus is divine and human, they are the antichrist. You don't want to belong to them, do you?
Jesus Christ is a messenger from God, in fact, the GREATEST MESSENGER, from God. Time and again he said this by declaring He is SENT by God:
John 12:49
King James Bible
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
John 7:16
"My teaching is not My own," Jesus replied. "It comes from Him who sent Me.
John 8:26
"I have much to say about you and much to judge. But the One who sent Me is truthful, and what I have heard from Him, I tell the world."
John 8:28
So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing on My own, but speak exactly what the Father has taught Me.
The bible also says that the one who was SENT CANNOT BE GREATER THAN THE ONE who sent Him:
John 13:16
King James Bible
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
The bible also proves that Jesus Christ is a SERVANT OF GOD:
Acts 3:13
Holman Christian Standard Bible
The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you handed over and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release Him.
Acts 4:30
New International Version
Stretch out your hand to heal and perform signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus."
Acts 4:27
English Standard Version
for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel,
Even the Lord Jesus Christ declared that God, the Father, is greater than Him:
John 14:28
King James Bible
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
The Father is also greater than all:
John 10:29
My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father's hand.
SO, NO, Christ IS NOT EQUAL to the Father! 0 -
kanotokapitolyo wrote: »
Diyan magaling itong si Kanoto sa pag-iimbento!
Ang KAISAHAN o UNITY ay REQUIREMENT ng Panginoong Diyos at Panginoong HesuKristo sa mga tunay na miembro ng katawan ni Cristo na ang iglesia. Ito ay ipinangaral din mga naunang apostol nang umakyat na sa langit si Cristo:
(KJV) John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Iniutos din sa biblia ang pakikipag-isa ng mga miembro sa kanilang mga lider sa loob ng iglesia:
Hebrews 13:17
King James Bible
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
UNITY OF CHURCH TO PERFECTION:
(KJV)Ephesians 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, 2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; 3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1 Corinthians 16:16
to submit to such as these, and to every fellow worker and laborer.
1 Thessalonians 5:12
But we ask you, brothers, to acknowledge those who work diligently among you, who preside over you in the Lord and give you instruction.
Hebrews 13:7
Remember your leaders who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith.0 -
so si evm na pala ang holy spirit
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