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Material na bagay lang daw ang nialalang ng Dios sa anim na araw?

ElCidElCid PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
Eto sabi ni Kid sa isang thread:

Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
And I do believe that God created every material thing in His 6 days!

Ang tanong - lalabas sa statement ni Kid yung mga spiritual na nilalang labas sa six day creation sa biblia. Bakit? Eh material things lang daw ang nilalang ng Dios sa loob ng anim na araw? Bwahahaha. Kailan ngayon nilalang ang mga anghel? Noong araw ng tumigil ang Dios sa paglalang sa ika-pitong araw?

Another classic irresponsible statement from Kid :P.
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  • KidlatNgayonKidlatNgayon PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    ElCid wrote: »
    Eto sabi ni Kid sa isang thread:

    Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    And I do believe that God created every material thing in His 6 days!

    Ang tanong - lalabas sa statement ni Kid yung mga spiritual na nilalang labas sa six day creation sa biblia. Bakit? Eh material things lang daw ang nilalang ng Dios sa loob ng anim na araw? Bwahahaha.

    Labas nga, KASI AY NAUNA SILA. Ilang beses ko bang sasabihin sa yo para pumasok sa kukote mo?
    Kailan ngayon nilalang ang mga anghel? Noong araw ng tumigil ang Dios sa paglalang sa ika-pitong araw?

    Another classic irresponsible statement from Kid :P.

    Hindi talaga kasi kayo nagbabasa ng biblia at hindi rin inaralan ng mga pari nyo! Shocked na shocked ka ba na wala kang kaalam-alam? :lol:

    Ano ang sabi sa biblia? Nag-aawitan ang mga anghel habang lumalalang ang Diyos sa pasimula kaya nalikha na ang mga anghel bago pa lang sinimulan ng Diyos na lalangin ang lahat ng mga materyal o nakikitang bagay:

    Job 38:
    << Job 38 >>
    Job 38 Tagalog: Ang Dating Biblia (1905)

    4 Saan ka nandoon nang ilagay ko ang mga patibayan ng lupa? Ipahayag mo, kung mayroon kang unawa.

    5 Sinong naglagay ng mga sukat niyaon, kung iyong nalalaman? O sinong nagunat ng panukat diyan?

    6 Sa ano nalagay ang kaniyang mga patibayan? O sinong naglagay ng batong panulok niyaon;

    7 Nang magsiawit na magkakasama ang mga bituin pang-umaga. At ang lahat ng mga anak ng Dios ay naghihiyawan sa kagalakan?

    Sino ang mga "bituing pang-umaga" na ito na nagsisiawitan habang nililikha ng Diyos ang sansinukob? Sino itong "mga anak ng Diyos" na ito?

    The Hebrew word for sons of God is bene elohim. The term, sons of God in the Old Testament is used in a plural manner and refers to angels. Men are not called sons of God until the New Testament when the Holy Spirit resides in them. One becomes a son of God – children in his spiritual family (Jn.1:12; 1 Jn.3:1,10, 5:10) by being born again, by His Spirit living within us. We are adopted becoming part of a family of believers. Gal. 3:26-27: “For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus” (Rom.8:14,19; Lk.20:36). The word `son ` in this respect relates to possession, or that one thing belongs to another.

    The word morning stars is found only once in the Old Testament and is plural in Job 38:7. [KJV, NKJV, NASV all have the same words in Job.38.] The Hebrew word here for morning is boquer or dawn stars – they are symbolized as when the angels were together in unity. We see this symbology used when Satan states “I will exalt my throne above the stars of God.” His goal; to become the authority over all the “other“ angels in heaven, something reserved only for God.

    What we have is both the symbolic usage of angels (morning stars) and what God calls them, sons of God. In Job 1, 2:1 these angels include Satan. When the word star is used symbolically, it is for angels (Job 38:7; Rev. 1:20; 9:1; 12:4. with Num. 24:17 as an exception). We see this same type of symbolism in few places in the New Testament saying the same thing; showing the stars of heaven are symbolic of angels.

    Mark 13:25: “the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in heaven will be shaken.”

    Rev. 6:13: “And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind.”

    Rev. 12:4 “His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth” the amount of angels in the rebellion.

    http://www.letusreason.org/Biblexp228.htm
  • ElCidElCid PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    Labas nga, KASI AY NAUNA SILA. Ilang beses ko bang sasabihin sa yo para pumasok sa kukote mo?



    Hindi talaga kasi kayo nagbabasa ng biblia at hindi rin inaralan ng mga pari nyo! Shocked na shocked ka ba na wala kang kaalam-alam? :lol:

    Ano ang sabi sa biblia? Nag-aawitan ang mga anghel habang lumalalang ang Diyos sa pasimula kaya nalikha na ang mga anghel bago pa lang sinimulan ng Diyos na lalangin ang lahat ng mga materyal o nakikitang bagay:

    Job 38:
    << Job 38 >>
    Job 38 Tagalog: Ang Dating Biblia (1905)

    4 Saan ka nandoon nang ilagay ko ang mga patibayan ng lupa? Ipahayag mo, kung mayroon kang unawa.

    5 Sinong naglagay ng mga sukat niyaon, kung iyong nalalaman? O sinong nagunat ng panukat diyan?

    6 Sa ano nalagay ang kaniyang mga patibayan? O sinong naglagay ng batong panulok niyaon;

    7 Nang magsiawit na magkakasama ang mga bituin pang-umaga. At ang lahat ng mga anak ng Dios ay naghihiyawan sa kagalakan?

    Sino ang mga "bituing pang-umaga" na ito na nagsisiawitan habang nililikha ng Diyos ang sansinukob? Sino itong "mga anak ng Diyos" na ito?

    The Hebrew word for sons of God is bene elohim. The term, sons of God in the Old Testament is used in a plural manner and refers to angels. Men are not called sons of God until the New Testament when the Holy Spirit resides in them. One becomes a son of God – children in his spiritual family (Jn.1:12; 1 Jn.3:1,10, 5:10) by being born again, by His Spirit living within us. We are adopted becoming part of a family of believers. Gal. 3:26-27: “For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus” (Rom.8:14,19; Lk.20:36). The word `son ` in this respect relates to possession, or that one thing belongs to another.

    The word morning stars is found only once in the Old Testament and is plural in Job 38:7. [KJV, NKJV, NASV all have the same words in Job.38.] The Hebrew word here for morning is boquer or dawn stars – they are symbolized as when the angels were together in unity. We see this symbology used when Satan states “I will exalt my throne above the stars of God.” His goal; to become the authority over all the “other“ angels in heaven, something reserved only for God.

    What we have is both the symbolic usage of angels (morning stars) and what God calls them, sons of God. In Job 1, 2:1 these angels include Satan. When the word star is used symbolically, it is for angels (Job 38:7; Rev. 1:20; 9:1; 12:4. with Num. 24:17 as an exception). We see this same type of symbolism in few places in the New Testament saying the same thing; showing the stars of heaven are symbolic of angels.

    Mark 13:25: “the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in heaven will be shaken.”

    Rev. 6:13: “And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind.”

    Rev. 12:4 “His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth” the amount of angels in the rebellion.

    http://www.letusreason.org/Biblexp228.htm

    Na parang nakakaintindi ng biblia? Six days of creation pinalalabas -di kasali ang mga anghel nauna sa lahat ng nilalang? :rotflmao: LABAS SA SIX DAYS OF CREATION? Saan naman nasusulat yan. Tigilan na kase ang pagkain ng talbos ng camote. :rotflmao: Kailangan mo din ng protina sa utak. :rotflmao:
  • KidlatNgayonKidlatNgayon PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    ElCid wrote: »
    Na parang nakakaintindi ng biblia? Six days of creation pinalalabas -di kasali ang mga anghel nauna sa lahat ng nilalang? :rotflmao: LABAS SA SIX DAYS OF CREATION? Saan naman nasusulat yan. Tigilan na kase ang pagkain ng talbos ng camote. :rotflmao: Kailangan mo din ng protina sa utak. :rotflmao:

    Hindi ko na problema kung ayaw mong maniwala! :lol:

    Ayaw nyong maniwala sa utos ni Cristo:


    Matthew 23:9
    New Living Translation
    And don't address anyone here on earth as 'Father,' for only God in heaven is your spiritual Father.

    Matthew 6:7
    King James Bible
    But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

    Ayaw nyong maniwala sa mga apostol:

    1 Timothy 2:5
    King James Bible
    For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    Teaching that Mary also mediates

    Ephesians 5:23
    King James Bible
    For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

    Teaching that the Popes (starting from Peter) is the head of the church!

    and many more!!! :D
  • ang verse 1 sa genesis 1 ay hindi bahagi sa 1st day creation na sinasabi ni moises.

    ang verse 1 ay ang very first day ng lalangin ng Dios ang mga langit at ang lupa.

    kung ating aanalisanin ang mga talata na ang sabi...

    Gen 1:1* In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.*
    Gen 1:2* And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.*

    ayon sa talata tinukoy na agad na noon pa ay natapos na ng Dios na likhain ang mga langit at ang lupa.

    sa verse verse 2 mukhang contradiction na sinasabi na created na o tapos na ang lupa pero sasabin na ang lupa o earth na sa hebrew ay erets ay walang anyo at wasak. wala sa logic na ang Dios ay sasabihin na nagawa na o natapos na pero wasak.

    maski sa tao na hindi matino na ang isang manggagawa na sasabihin niya sa kanyang nagawa ay tapos na pero wasak pala. sira ang ulo non.

    at ang sabi sa aklat ni isaias kung papaano niya nilikha ang lupa sa verse 1...

    Isa 45:18* For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.*

    Isa 45:18 Sapagka't ganito ang sabi ng Panginoon na lumikha ng langit, na siyang Dios na nag-anyo sa lupa at gumawa niyaon, na kaniyang itinatag, at hindi niya nilikha na sira, na kaniyang inanyuan upang tahanan: ako ang Panginoon; at wala nang iba.

    kaya ang tamang logic ay natapos na ng Dios likhain ang mga langit at lupa pero may nangyaring pagkawasak. yon ang logic.

    ngayon bakit nawasak?

    sa biblia may nababasa tayo kung bakit winawasak ng Dios ang lupa.

    sa panhon ni noe ay winasak ng Dios ang lupa sa pamamagitan ng paglubog nito sa tubig sa panahon ni noe at nangamatay lahat ang mga masasamang tao at 8 tao lamang ang natira sa makatuwid ay ang pamilya ni noe.

    yung pagkalubog ng lupa sa tubig at kaya nawala ang anyo ng lupa ay walang pagkakaiba sa nangyari sa verse 2 ng genesis.

    at sa aklat ni jeremias ay may nasabi ang propeta na tumutukoy sa genesis 1:2.

    Jer 4:22 Sapagka't ang bayan ko ay hangal, hindi nila ako nakikilala; sila'y mga mangmang na anak, at sila'y walang unawa; sila'y pantas sa paggawa ng masama, nguni't sa paggawa ng mabuti ay wala silang kaalaman.
    Jer 4:23 Aking minasdan ang lupa, at, narito, sira at walang laman; at ang langit ay walang liwanag.
    Jer 4:24 Aking minasdan ang mga bundok, at narito, nagsisiyanig, at ang lahat na burol ay nagsisiindayon.
    Jer 4:25 Ako'y nagmasid, at, narito, walang tao, at lahat ng mga ibon sa himpapawid ay nangakatakas.
    Jer 4:26 Ako'y nagmasid, at, narito, ang mainam na parang ay ilang, at, lahat ng mga bayan niyaon ay nangasira sa harapan ng Panginoon, at sa harap ng kaniyang mabangis na galit.
    Jer 4:27 Sapagka't ganito ang sabi ng Panginoon, Ang buong lupain ay magiging sira; gayon ma'y hindi ako gagawa ng lubos na kawakasan.

    at sa pag iimbistiga ng ilang dalubhasa sa biblia ay nakita nila na ang pangyayaring iyon ay panahon pala ni lucifer.

    na sa kanya ipinagkatiwala ang lupa ngunit siya ay nagmataas at iniligaw niya ang mga bansa at kaharian noong panahon na yon.

    kaya nga ang itinawag ng ilang bible scholar ang genesis 1:2 ay ang lucifer's flood.

    at yung binabanggit na first day hanggang 6th day ay restoration o re-creation ng lupa dahil nga nangawasak o nasira dahil sa kasamaan noon na nanahan sa lupa bago si adan.
  • KidlatNgayonKidlatNgayon PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    Una sa lahat, ang Biblia o Banal na Kasulatan ay nasusulat para sa mga TAO. Ito ay upang malaman ng tao kung saan nagmula ang lahat at dito nga sa biblia ay nasasagot lahat ito. Na mayroong Diyos na HINDI NATIN NAKIKITA na Siyang lumalang o gumawa ng lahat at ito nga ay NAKADOKUMENTO sa biblia. Mayroong mga tao na maniniwala sa katotohanan ng biblia at mas maraming hindi sapagka't hindi sapat na ebidensiya para sa kanila ang banal na aklat, alam yan ng Diyos.

    Ano ang katunayan na iniutos ng Diyos na isulat o idokumento ang salaysay ukol sa pagsisimula ng lahat ng bagay na materyal na kung saan included ang tao dito:


    Jeremiah 30:2
    New American Standard Bible
    "Thus says the LORD, the God of Israel, 'Write all the words which I have spoken to you in a book.

    Isaiah 30:8
    Now go, write it on a tablet before them And inscribe it on a scroll, That it may serve in the time to come As a witness forever.

    Jeremiah 25:13
    'I will bring upon that land all My words which I have pronounced against it, all that is written in this book which Jeremiah has prophesied against all the nations.

    Jeremiah 36:2
    "Take a scroll and write on it all the words which I have spoken to you concerning Israel and concerning Judah, and concerning all the nations, from the day I first spoke to you, from the days of Josiah, even to this day.

    Jeremiah 36:4
    Then Jeremiah called Baruch the son of Neriah, and Baruch wrote on a scroll at the dictation of Jeremiah all the words of the LORD which He had spoken to him.

    Jeremiah 36:28
    "Take again another scroll and write on it all the former words that were on the first scroll which Jehoiakim the king of Judah burned.

    Jeremiah 51:60
    So Jeremiah wrote in a single scroll all the calamity which would come upon Babylon, that is, all these words which have been written concerning Babylon.

    Habakkuk 2:2
    Then the LORD answered me and said, "Record the vision And inscribe it on tablets, That the one who reads it may run.

    What else is PROOF that the Lord God wants everyone to know and learn what concerns about His creation and what He expects from each of us?

    Gutenberg Bible
    The Gutenberg Bible (also known as the 42-line Bible, the Mazarin Bible or the B42) was the first major book printed using mass-produced movable metal type in Europe. It marked the start of the "Gutenberg Revolution" and the age of the printed book in the West.
    Gutenberg Bible - Wikipedia
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutenberg_Bible

    The invention of the printing press made it possible for the bible to be mass-produced.

    Dahil sa biblia ay nagkaroon ng reference ang tao ukol sa katotohanan ng Diyos at ito ay nasusulat din sa biblia:

    2 Timothy 3:15
    New Living Translation
    You have been taught the holy Scriptures from childhood, and they have given you the wisdom to receive the salvation that comes by trusting in Christ Jesus.

    ^Subali't ito siyempre ay kumakausap sa mga taong ipinanganak sa lahi ng mananampalataya, paano naman iyong mga hindi nakakaalam ukol sa katotohanan ng Diyos dahil sila ay ipinanganak sa lahi ng mga hindi kumikilala sa tunay na Diyos?

    2 Thessalonians 2:13
    But we should always thank God for you, brothers who are loved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning to be saved by the sanctification of the Spirit and by faith in the truth.

    1 Peter 1:2
    Berean Literal Bible
    according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctification of the Spirit unto the obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

    But if God already chose the people who will compose His Chosen Nation in the beginning, what about the others?

    Mark 16:15
    ESV
    And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.

    God is giving EVERYONE a chance to hear, learn and believe the "gospel" which is written in the bible!

    1 Timothy 2:3 This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

    So God is FAIR and JUST in giving each and everyone a chance to be in the body of Christ which is the church that Christ will save and present to the Lord God.

    In spite of this, many people did not heed God's calling:


    Proverbs 1:24-26
    ESV
    Because I have called and you refused to listen, have stretched out my hand and no one has heeded, because you have ignored all my counsel and would have none of my reproof, I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when terror strikes you,

    It is therefore a very important book, the bible, because this is where we can find out God's truth and His plan for us! But reading this on your own is very hard because the truth is only shown to elected individuals or what God calls His messengers. Our Lord Jesus Christ is one of God's messengers but He is the greatest messenger. The words of God must be taught first, one has to understand them and believe and then be baptized to be included in the body or church. When you are already a member of this true church, your mind will be opened and you can read the bible on your own, guided by the Holy Spirit to understand everything that is written in it for your own benefit.

    Mark 16:15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

    Luke 3:21 When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as He was praying, heaven was opened, 22 and the Holy Spirit descended on Him in a bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”…Berean Study Bible

    1 John 5:20
    And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true--in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

    Samakatuwid, ang biblia ay nauunawaan lamang ng mga nabuksan na ang isipan matapos na makarinig nag salita at aral, maniwala dito at mabautismuhan sa loob ng iglesia at ito ay maituturo lamang nga mga isinugo ng Diyos:

    Romans 10:3f or, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” 14 How then can they call on the One they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the One of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone to preach? 15 And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”…
    Berean Study Bible
  • KidlatNgayonKidlatNgayon PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

    Ano ang "heaven" sa sitas na ito? Ito ba ang kung saan naninirahan ang Diyos at mga anghel Niya?

    Kung ginawa ng Diyos ang "langit" at lupa sa beginning, mauunawaan na ang "beginning" ay hindi pasimula ng lahat kundi ang pasimula lamang ng mga materyal o nakikitang bagay na nilikha ng Diyos.

    Ang Diyos na lumikha ay clearly hindi kasama sa "beginning", Siya ay labas sa "beginning" - na kung kaya nga ang "beginning" sa sitas na ito ay pasimula lamang ng PAGLIKHA Niya sa mga bagay na materyal o nakikita.

    Saan ba nananahan ang Diyos?


    In a prayer, King Solomon said: “May you yourself listen from the heavens, your established place of dwelling.”—1 Kings 8:43.

    Jesus Christ taught his disciples to address their prayers to their “Father in the heavens.”—Matthew 6:9.

    So, kung nilikha ng Diyos ang "heaven" sa simula, anong "heaven" ito?

    Genesis 1:6-9
    6 And God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.”
    7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so.
    8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
    9 And God said, “Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so.

    fir·ma·ment
    ˈfərməmənt/Submit
    nounliterary
    the heavens or the sky, especially when regarded as a tangible thing.
    synonyms: the sky, heaven; the heavens, the skies; literarythe empyrean, the welkin
    "they lay gazing up at the firmament"

    Samakatuwid, ang "heaven" na nilikha sa "beginning" ay yung materyal o nakikitang heaven!

    Maraming sitas sa biblia kung saan mababasa natin na ang mga Anghel ay kasama ng Diyos sa "kalangitan". Ibang kalangitan ito, yung HINDI NAKIKITA, dito nananahan ang Diyos kung kaya naman ito ay pruweba na ang 6 na araw na paglikha ng Diyos ay yun lamang mga bagay na materyal at nakikita.

    Kung kaya ang mga Anghel ay NAUNANG LIKHAIN KAYSA CRISTO bagama't ang KAISIPANG MESSIAH ay malaon nang nasa isipan ng Diyos, bago pa Niya nilikha ang mga anghel, kung kaya "NAUNA" naman si Cristo sa mga Anghel!
  • susmariosepsusmariosep PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    Dear readers here, please procced to this post from me earlier this morning.

    Modesty aside, I submit everyone here will reap fruit enriching your skill in precision thinking and also your academic mindset, and learn bout the distinction between the conceptual realm and the objectival realm; all these fruits will enable you to discuss with or among each other as to arrive at greater possession of genuine knowledge of life and the world.

    Here is the link, just click on http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?t=820573&p=76040787&viewfull=1#post76040787.


    Happy reading, and thinking, and writing.


    Later.
  • susmariosepsusmariosep PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    Well, dear readers of this thread, which is not mine, but I like to share with you here my thoughts on God existing, and atheists are into self-obscurantism in bad faith, for denying God existing, but without any serious grounds whatsoever.

    Thanks for reading my ideas here in ROT.

    See my post earlier this morning, http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?t=825820&p=76044307&viewfull=1#post76044307, about my asking why or what do I care about atheists and their inane and vacuous hide and seek self-obscurantism on the issue God exists or not.
    _________________
    Dear readers here, what do I care about atheists and their nonsense or vacuity and inanity, and in brief hide and seek cover against facing the truth, fact, logic, and the history of ideas, that God exists, in concept as first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning?

    […]

    http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?t=825820&p=76044307&viewfull=1#post76044307


    Later.
  • ElCidElCid PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

    Ano ang "heaven" sa sitas na ito? Ito ba ang kung saan naninirahan ang Diyos at mga anghel Niya?

    Kung ginawa ng Diyos ang "langit" at lupa sa beginning, mauunawaan na ang "beginning" ay hindi pasimula ng lahat kundi ang pasimula lamang ng mga materyal o nakikitang bagay na nilikha ng Diyos.

    Ang Diyos na lumikha ay clearly hindi kasama sa "beginning", Siya ay labas sa "beginning" - na kung kaya nga ang "beginning" sa sitas na ito ay pasimula lamang ng PAGLIKHA Niya sa mga bagay na materyal o nakikita.

    Saan ba nananahan ang Diyos?


    In a prayer, King Solomon said: “May you yourself listen from the heavens, your established place of dwelling.”—1 Kings 8:43.

    Jesus Christ taught his disciples to address their prayers to their “Father in the heavens.”—Matthew 6:9.

    So, kung nilikha ng Diyos ang "heaven" sa simula, anong "heaven" ito?

    Genesis 1:6-9
    6 And God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.”
    7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so.
    8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
    9 And God said, “Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so.

    fir·ma·ment
    ˈfərməmənt/Submit
    nounliterary
    the heavens or the sky, especially when regarded as a tangible thing.
    synonyms: the sky, heaven; the heavens, the skies; literarythe empyrean, the welkin
    "they lay gazing up at the firmament"

    Samakatuwid, ang "heaven" na nilikha sa "beginning" ay yung materyal o nakikitang heaven!

    Maraming sitas sa biblia kung saan mababasa natin na ang mga Anghel ay kasama ng Diyos sa "kalangitan". Ibang kalangitan ito, yung HINDI NAKIKITA, dito nananahan ang Diyos kung kaya naman ito ay pruweba na ang 6 na araw na paglikha ng Diyos ay yun lamang mga bagay na materyal at nakikita.

    Kung kaya ang mga Anghel ay NAUNANG LIKHAIN KAYSA CRISTO bagama't ang KAISIPANG MESSIAH ay malaon nang nasa isipan ng Diyos, bago pa Niya nilikha ang mga anghel, kung kaya "NAUNA" naman si Cristo sa mga Anghel!

    Again obvious bagong taon na di mo pa din alam sinasabi mo. Six (6) days LAMANG ang 'days' of creation sa bible. Dahil sa ikapitong araw ang Dios - huminto na sa paglalang. So kung ipinagpipilitan mo pa din na 6 na araw na paglikha ng Dios ay yun lamang mga bagay na materyal at nakikita lalabas more than six days ang creation bug0k dahil hindi naman materya ang mga Anghel kungdi espirito at kung sila labas sa six days of creation - ilan days ngayon ang creation lalabas sa kwentada mo? Pito? Obvious hindi mo alam yung mga pinagsasasabi mo. Sinasampalatayanan mo pa naman literal di mo naman naiintindihan?
  • KidlatNgayonKidlatNgayon PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    ElCid wrote: »
    Again obvious bagong taon na di mo pa din alam sinasabi mo. Six (6) days LAMANG ang 'days' of creation sa bible. Dahil sa ikapitong araw ang Dios - huminto na sa paglalang. So kung ipinagpipilitan mo pa din na 6 na araw na paglikha ng Dios ay yun lamang mga bagay na materyal at nakikita lalabas more than six days ang creation bug0k dahil hindi naman materya ang mga Anghel kungdi espirito at kung sila labas sa six days of creation - ilan days ngayon ang creation lalabas sa kwentada mo? Pito? Obvious hindi mo alam yung mga pinagsasasabi mo. Sinasampalatayanan mo pa naman literal di mo naman naiintindihan?

    It's pretty obvious na ikaw ang hindi makaintindi pero IPAPALIWANAG ko sa yo ng isa pang beses bagama't sigurado ako na guguluhin mo lang ang sarili mong pag-iisip! :lol:

    Gaya nga ng sinabi ko na, ang Diyos ay mula sa walang hanggan, walang umpisa at nang lalangin Niya ang mga anghel ay wala pa ring "time".

    Nagkaroon lang ng "beginning" nang simulan Niyang lalangin ang mga materyal na bagay. Ito ay sapagka't ang mga naka-record sa biblia ay para sa kaalamang pantao, hindi pang-espiritu. Ang biblia ay record ng paglikha ng Diyos at lahat ng mangyayari sa Kanyang mga materyal na nilikha. Ang record na ito ay para sa mga tao, upang maunawaan nila na may Diyos na tunay na lumikha ng lahat at sisira din ng lahat. Hindi kailangan ng mga anghel ang biblia, iba ang istorya nila, gets mo?

    The "beginning" only refers to the start of God's material creation, this does not include the spiritual realm and creatures that God created BEFORE the "beginning"! Whatever is written in the bible is ONLY FOR THE BENEFIT OF HUMAN KNOWLEDGE because the bible is ONLY FOR HUMANS! The bible is strictly for men to learn how things came about (God's creation), what happened to His earlier creatures (angels and any other spiritual beings) who disobeyed Him, what is God's expectation of us, humans, through narratives of what happened to His first people, what we can learn from them (our forefathers), the concept and manifestation of the Messiah, the Messiah's first disciples, what we should and ought to do to return to God through the Messiah and be saved so we can be part of God's children who will have eternal life in the Holy City.

    The angels are only introduced to us just so we will have an understanding that God also created unseen creatures (those who are not visible to human eyes and perception). Like men, they are also servants of God. Both angels and men were created having free will.

    In the end, God will judge all angels/spirits and humans; Jesus Christ will save His church and all those who will be saved by God and Christ will be "new creatures" and they will live eternally in the holy city as promised.

    The humans who will be condemned will be punished eternally in the Lake of Fire and brimstone together with Satan and his fallen angel followers.

    This is the "mystery" that has already been revealed but many do not believe. The Lord God is just in that this will be revealed to everyone so they can choose to believe or not. This is the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ that we need to believe and follow so we will be saved!

    Mark 16:15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

    John 3:18
    Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is already condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

    John 3:36
    Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him."
  • ElCidElCid PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    It's pretty obvious na ikaw ang hindi makaintindi pero IPAPALIWANAG ko sa yo ng isa pang beses bagama't sigurado ako na guguluhin mo lang ang sarili mong pag-iisip! :lol:

    Gaya nga ng sinabi ko na, ang Diyos ay mula sa walang hanggan, walang umpisa at nang lalangin Niya ang mga anghel ay wala pa ring "time".

    Nagkaroon lang ng "beginning" nang simulan Niyang lalangin ang mga materyal na bagay. Ito ay sapagka't ang mga naka-record sa biblia ay para sa kaalamang pantao, hindi pang-espiritu. Ang biblia ay record ng paglikha ng Diyos at lahat ng mangyayari sa Kanyang mga materyal na nilikha. Ang record na ito ay para sa mga tao, upang maunawaan nila na may Diyos na tunay na lumikha ng lahat at sisira din ng lahat. Hindi kailangan ng mga anghel ang biblia, iba ang istorya nila, gets mo?

    The "beginning" only refers to the start of God's material creation, this does not include the spiritual realm and creatures that God created BEFORE the "beginning"! Whatever is written in the bible is ONLY FOR THE BENEFIT OF HUMAN KNOWLEDGE because the bible is ONLY FOR HUMANS! The bible is strictly for men to learn how things came about (God's creation), what happened to His earlier creatures (angels and any other spiritual beings) who disobeyed Him, what is God's expectation of us, humans, through narratives of what happened to His first people, what we can learn from them (our forefathers), the concept and manifestation of the Messiah, the Messiah's first disciples, what we should and ought to do to return to God through the Messiah and be saved so we can be part of God's children who will have eternal life in the Holy City.

    The angels are only introduced to us just so we will have an understanding that God also created unseen creatures (those who are not visible to human eyes and perception). Like men, they are also servants of God. Both angels and men were created having free will.

    In the end, God will judge all angels/spirits and humans; Jesus Christ will save His church and all those who will be saved by God and Christ will be "new creatures" and they will live eternally in the holy city as promised.

    The humans who will be condemned will be punished eternally in the Lake of Fire and brimstone together with Satan and his fallen angel followers.

    This is the "mystery" that has already been revealed but many do not believe. The Lord God is just in that this will be revealed to everyone so they can choose to believe or not. This is the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ that we need to believe and follow so we will be saved!

    Mark 16:15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

    John 3:18
    Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is already condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

    John 3:36
    Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him."

    Ang haba ng sinabi walang ginamit na sitas directly related sa creation ng mga anghel - pinaglololoko na naman tayo. Una wala namang sitas nagsasabi na MATERIAL NA BAGAY LANG ANG NILALANG sa loob ng anim na araw kaya huwag na tayo maglokohan. At yan hindi naman literal na six (6) days in the first place but a measure of time.

    Pangalawa, gusto palabasin ni mokong na ang anghel was created before the BEGINNING daw :rotflmao:. If such is the case yung mga anghel existed even before TIME began gaya nga ng kab0b0hang conclusion niya: nang lalangin Niya ang mga anghel ay wala pa ring "time". . He does not realize that nothing existed before time began EXCEPT GOD. If angels existed before the beginning/or before the beginning of time itself - the angels would be ETERNAL LIKE GOD - with no beginning in time (walang pasimula). Common sense na lang ang mga anghel may pasimula din tulad ng lahat ng NILALANG. So kung may PASIMULA ANG ANGHEL IBIG SABIHIN THEY WHERE CREATED AND EXISTED IN TIME! Common sense lang. Hindi sila galing sa walang pasimula tulad ni Cristo at ng Dios! Lahat ng mga bagay na nilalang espiritual man o material was made according to scriptrue during the six (6) days of creation which is a measure of time DAHIL LAHAT NG NILALANG MAY PASIMULA SA PANAHON! Bug0k!

    Tigilan ang kadadiet para magkaroon naman ng sustancia ang utak mo bagong taon na! :rotflmao:
  • KidlatNgayonKidlatNgayon PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    ElCid wrote: »
    Ang haba ng sinabi walang ginamit na sitas directly related sa creation ng mga anghel - pinaglololoko na naman tayo. Una wala namang sitas nagsasabi na MATERIAL NA BAGAY LANG ANG NILALANG sa loob ng anim na araw kaya huwag na tayo maglokohan. At yan hindi naman literal na six (6) days in the first place but a measure of time.

    Sinabi ko naman sa yo na ang biblia na nakasulat ay para sa mga TAO LAMANG! Kung meron mang biblia ang mga anghel, hindi na yan kasama sa usapan! :lol:
    Pangalawa, gusto palabasin ni mokong na ang anghel was created before the BEGINNING daw :rotflmao:. If such is the case yung mga anghel existed even before TIME began gaya nga ng kab0b0hang conclusion niya: nang lalangin Niya ang mga anghel ay wala pa ring "time". . He does not realize that nothing existed before time began EXCEPT GOD. If angels existed before the beginning/or before the beginning of time itself - the angels would be ETERNAL LIKE GOD - with no beginning in time (walang pasimula). Common sense na lang ang mga anghel may pasimula din tulad ng lahat ng NILALANG. So kung may PASIMULA ANG ANGHEL IBIG SABIHIN THEY WHERE CREATED AND EXISTED IN TIME! Common sense lang. Hindi sila galing sa walang pasimula tulad ni Cristo at ng Dios! Lahat ng mga bagay na nilalang espiritual man o material was made according to scriptrue during the six (6) days of creation which is a measure of time DAHIL LAHAT NG NILALANG MAY PASIMULA SA PANAHON! Bug0k!

    Tigilan ang kadadiet para magkaroon naman ng sustancia ang utak mo bagong taon na! :rotflmao:

    Eto nga ang buong Genesis verses ng creation - meron bang sinabing nilikhang espiritual na mga bagay dyan? :naughty: Heynakupo!

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1
  • ElCidElCid PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    Sinabi ko naman sa yo na ang biblia na nakasulat ay para sa mga TAO LAMANG! Kung meron mang biblia ang mga anghel, hindi na yan kasama sa usapan! :lol:

    Eto nga ang buong Genesis verses ng creation - meron bang sinabing nilikhang espiritual na mga bagay dyan? :naughty: Heynakupo!

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1

    Dahil nga mangmang ka na nagdudunung-dunungan.

    16 Sapagka't sa kaniya nilalang ang lahat na mga bagay, sa sangkalangitan at sa sangkalupaan, na mga bagay na nakikita at ang mga bagay na di nakikita, maging mga luklukan o mga pagsakop o mga pamunuan o mga kapangyarihan; lahat ng mga bagay ay nilalang sa pamamagitan niya at ukol sa kaniya; Col 1:16

    So mababasa na ang LAHAT ng mga bagay NAKIKITA O HINDI NAKIKITA eh NILALANG. So ano ibig sabihin niyan? Kung sinasabi sa biblia ang days of creation six (6) days - doon yan nilalang bugok. Hindi puedeng labas yan sa days of creation at ilalagay mo bago pa magsimula ang paglalang. At lalong kabugukan on your part para sabihin sila nilalang before time even began. Lalabas ETERNAL ANG ANGHEL bugok na parang tulad ng Dios na galing sa walang pasimula. Kung yang mga bagay tulad ng mga di nakikita gaya ng ANGHEL ang tawag eh NILALANG - they were created in time b0b0. So kasabay yan or after ng paglalang sa sangkalangitan gaya ng nasusulat sa colosas - CLARO.
  • KidlatNgayonKidlatNgayon PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    ElCid wrote: »

    Dahil nga mangmang ka na nagdudunung-dunungan.

    16 Sapagka't sa kaniya nilalang ang lahat na mga bagay, sa sangkalangitan at sa sangkalupaan, na mga bagay na nakikita at ang mga bagay na di nakikita, maging mga luklukan o mga pagsakop o mga pamunuan o mga kapangyarihan; lahat ng mga bagay ay nilalang sa pamamagitan niya at ukol sa kaniya; Col 1:16
    So saan mo dyan nakuha na si Cristo ang naglalang?

    Eto ang mga sinabi:

    - sa kaniya nilalang (created for him)
    - lahat ng bagay ay nilalang sa pamamagitan niya (through him) at ukol sa kanya (about him)

    Alin dyan ang nagsasabing siya (si Cristo) ang lumalang? :lol:
    So mababasa na ang LAHAT ng mga bagay NAKIKITA O HINDI NAKIKITA eh NILALANG. So ano ibig sabihin niyan? Kung sinasabi sa biblia ang days of creation six (6) days - doon yan nilalang bugok. Hindi puedeng labas yan sa days of creation at ilalagay mo bago pa magsimula ang paglalang. At lalong kabugukan on your part para sabihin sila nilalang before time even began. Lalabas ETERNAL ANG ANGHEL bugok na parang tulad ng Dios na galing sa walang pasimula. Kung yang mga bagay tulad ng mga di nakikita gaya ng ANGHEL ang tawag eh NILALANG - they were created in time b0b0. So kasabay yan or after ng paglalang sa sangkalangitan gaya ng nasusulat sa colosas - CLARO.

    First of all, ang verse na yan ay hindi mula sa Genesis kung saan nasusulat ang creation. Yan ay sa Collosians at ang mga "hindi nakikita" dyan ay LITERALLY matter that cannot be seen by the naked eye. Meron bang mga bagay na material na hindi nakikita ng tao? Marami! Isang pinaka-common example ay ang hangin or air:

    Earth's atmosphere is composed of air. Air is a mixture of gases, 78% nitrogen and 21% oxygen with traces of water vapor, carbon dioxide, argon, and various other components.

    So hindi mo nakikita ang hangin pero alam mong hinihinga mo yan at kapag may wind ay nararamdaman mo, kahit hindi mo nakikita.

    Samakatuwid, ang "mga bagay na hindi nakikita" na sinasabi dyan ay hindi mga anghel o maga espiritu kundi mga bagay na hindi nakikita ng tao!


    Heto ang scientific explanation dyan:

    Roughly 80 percent of the mass of the universe is made up of material that scientists cannot directly observe. Known as dark matter, this bizarre ingredient does not emit light or energy. So why do scientists think it dominates?

    Studies of other galaxies in the 1950s first indicated that the universe contained more matter than seen by the naked eye. Support for dark matter has grown, and although no solid direct evidence of dark matter has been detected, there have been strong possibilities in recent years.

    The familiar material of the universe, known as baryonic matter, is composed of protons, neutrons and electrons. Dark matter may be made of baryonic or non-baryonic matter. To hold the elements of the universe together, dark matter must make up approximately 80 percent of its matter.

    The missing matter could simply be more challenging to detect, made up of regular, baryonic matter. Potential candidates include dim brown dwarfs, white dwarfs and neutrino stars. Supermassive black holes could also be part of the difference. But these hard-to-spot objects would have to play a more dominant role than scientists have observed to make up the missing mass, while other elements suggest that dark matter is more exotic.

    Most scientists think that dark matter is composed of non-baryonic matter. The lead candidate, WIMPS (weakly interacting massive particles), have ten to a hundred times the mass of a proton, but their weak interactions with "normal" matter make them difficult to detect. Neutralinos, massive hypothetical particles heavier and slower than neutrinos, are the foremost candidate, though they have yet to be spotted. The smaller neutral axion and the uncharched photinos are also potential placeholders for dark matter.

    A third possibility exists — that the laws of gravity that have thus far successfully described the motion of objects within the solar system require revision.

    Proving the unseen


    If scientists can't see dark matter, how do they know it exists?

    Scientists calculate the mass of large objects in space by studying their motion. Astronomers examining spiral galaxies in the 1950s expected to see material in the center moving faster than on the outer edges. Instead, they found the stars in both locations traveled at the same velocity, indicating the galaxies contained more mass than could be seen. Studies of the gas within elliptical galaxies also indicated a need for more mass than found in visible objects. Clusters of galaxies would fly apart if the only mass they contained were visible to conventional astronomical measurements.

    Albert Einstein showed that massive objects in the universe bend and distort light, allowing them to be used as lenses. By studying how light is distorted by galaxy clusters, astronomers have been able to create a map of dark matter in the universe.

    All of these methods provide a strong indication that the most of the matter in the universe is something yet unseen.

    Dark matter versus dark energy


    Although dark matter makes up most of the matter of the universe, it only makes up about a quarter of the composition. The universe is dominated by dark energy.

    After the Big Bang, the universe began expanding outward. Scientists once thought that it would eventually run out of the energy, slowing down as gravity pulled the objects inside it together. But studies of distant supernovae revealed that the universe today is expanding faster than it was in the past, not slower, indicating that the expansion is accelerating. This would only be possible if the universe contained enough energy to overcome gravity — dark energy.

    — Nola Taylor Redd, SPACE.com

    http://www.space.com/20930-dark-matter.html


    Mahilig ka rin lang sa Science! :D
  • sophionsophion PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    - lahat ng bagay ay nilalang sa pamamagitan niya (through him) at ukol sa kanya (about him)

    eh di nauna pala si jeeezus bago ginawa ang universe?


    not saying na si jeeezus gumawa but it looks like si jeeezus ang ginamit para makagawa si god.
  • KidlatNgayonKidlatNgayon PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    sophion wrote: »
    eh di nauna pala si jeeezus bago ginawa ang universe?


    not saying na si jeeezus gumawa but it looks like si jeeezus ang ginamit para makagawa si god.

    Si Cristo ang UNA sa plano sa creation ng God. Siya ang pundasyon at lahat ay NASASALIG sa Kanya para Siya ang managot sa lahat. Siya ang Saviour ng katawan o church Niya at MEDIATOR between God and Mankind.

    John 14:6
    New International Version
    Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

    Ang "THROUGH Jesus" diyan ay sa AUTHORITY hindi creation:

    1 Corinthians 15:27
    New Living Translation
    For the Scriptures say, "God has put all things under his authority." (Of course, when it says "all things are under his authority," that does not include God himself, who gave Christ his authority.)
  • KidlatNgayonKidlatNgayon PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    ON COLOSSIANS 1:16


    Question:

    Does Colossians 1:16 teach that the Lord Jesus Christ created all things? The verse clearly said, “For by him all things were created…all things were created by him and for him” (Col. 1:16 NIV)


    ANSWER:


    Nowhere in the verse that says “Christ is God” and “Jesus created all things.” What the verse actually said:

    “For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.” (Col. 1:16 NIV)

    It is only the interpretation of those who believe that Jesus is God that this verse teaches that “Jesus created all things.” According to their interpretation, the phrase “For by him all things were created” means that “Jesus Christ created all things.”

    However, their interpretation contradicts the teachings of the Bible. The Bible explicitly tells us who is the God who created all things. In Isaiah 45:18, this is what we could read:

    “For thus says Yahweh who created the heavens, the God who formed the earth and made it, who established it and didn't create it a waste, who formed it to be inhabited: I am Yahweh; and there is no one else.” (Isa 45:18 World English Bible)

    The Bible clearly said that the God “who created the heavens…who formed the earth and made it” is “Yahweh.” And the Bible also made explicit proclamation if who “Yahweh” is. In Exodus 3:15 this is what “Yahweh” said about Himself:

    “God said moreover to Moses, ‘You shall tell the children of Israel this, 'Yahweh, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is my name forever, and this is my memorial to all generations.” (Ex 3:15 WEB)

    God said to Moses, “You shall tell the children of Israel this, ‘Yahweh, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." Thus, the God who created the heavens and formed the earth is the “God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.” The Bible has explicit declaration that clearly proves the Lord Jesus Christ is not the “God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.” this is what the Bible says about Jesus:

    “The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go.” (Acts 3:13 NKJV)

    It is clear in the Bible that the Lord Jesus is the Servant of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Thus, those who say that Jesus is the God who created all things contradict the teachings of the Bible that the God who created everything, who made the heavens and the earth, is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and the Lord Jesus is His Servant.

    Therefore, those who say that "Jesus created everything" misinterpreted Colossians 1:16. What does Colossians 1:16 meant in saying “For by him (Jesus) all things were created: things in heaven and on earth…”? Let us see first the Greek Text of Colossians 1:16 (the New Testament is originally written in Greek):

    See picture here: http://theiglesianicristo.blogspot.ca/2013/10/colossians-116.html

    Take note that what some English Bible (like NIV and KJV) translated as “For by him” is “hoti en auto” in the Greek Text. Actually, the literal translation of “hoti en auto” is “For in him.” This is the reason why there are versions of the Bible that translated Colossians 1:16 as “For in him” like the American Standard Version:

    “For in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him.” (Colossians 1:16 ASV)

    “For IN him were all things created” is much appropriate rendition of the first part of Colossians 1:16 than “For BY him all things were created.”
    What does “for in him were all things created” means? The last part of colossians 1:16 explains this. The last part of the verse said, “all things have been created through him, and unto him.” Take note of the difference between NIV and ASV.

    NIV (and also KJV) rendered the last part as “all things were created BY him and for him.” While ASV rendered it as “all things have been created THROUGH him, and unto him.”

    This part of Colossians 1:16 is "ta panta di' autou" in the Greek Text. According to the book Learn to Read Greek New Testament, p. 116, when the Greek word “dia” followed by a Greek word in genitive case, although it can be translated as “by,” however, the word “through” is more appropriate and this means “intermediary.”

    The Greek “di’ autou,” the Greek word “autou” is in genitive case, and di’ is a contraction of the Greek word “dia.” Thus, the ASV’s “all things have been created THROUGH him, and unto him” is more appropriate rendition than NIV’s “all things were created BY him and for him” of the Greek’s "ta panta di' autou."

    Applying the Greek rules, “dia” in “di' autou” (“through him”) means “intermediary.” The word “intermediary” means “mediator” according to Merriam dictionary, p. 266. Indeed, Christ is the mediator between the one true God and man:

    “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” (I Timothy 2:5 NIV)

    Even Bible Scholars attest to this. This is what the book Bible knowledge Commentary states:

    “The third characteristic of Christ is that by Him all things were created. In fact all things were created by Him (‎di' ‎‎autou‎, instrumental Cause) and for Him (‎eis ‎‎auton‎, final Cause), and in Him (‎en ‎‎auto‎-) they hold together (He is the constituting or conserving Cause). Christ is not only the One through whom all things came to be, but also the One by whom they continue to exist. Two other New Testament verses parallel this description of Christ: "Through Him all things were made" (John 1:3), and Christ the Son is the One "through whom [the Father] made the universe" (Heb 1:2). The Father, then, is the ultimate Source (efficient Cause), and the Son is the mediating Cause of the world.” (Bible Knowledge Commentary/New Testament Copyright © 1983, 2000 Cook Communications Ministries.)

    This is the reason why Wuest rendered Colossians 1:16 as follows:

    “Because in Him were created all things in the heavens and upon the earth, the visible things and the invisible ones, whether they are thrones or lordships or principalities or authorities. All things through Him as intermediate agent and with a view to Him stand created.” (Col 1:16 Wuest)

    Thus, Colossians 1:16 does not teach that Christ created all things, but that all things were made through Him and for Him “as an intermediate agent” or as the mediator between God and man.

    http://theiglesianicristo.blogspot.ca/2013/10/colossians-116.html
  • sophionsophion PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    Si Cristo ang UNA sa plano sa creation ng God. Siya ang pundasyon at lahat ay NASASALIG sa Kanya para Siya ang managot sa lahat. Siya ang Saviour ng katawan o church Niya at MEDIATOR between God and Mankind.

    John 14:6
    New International Version
    Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

    Ang "THROUGH Jesus" diyan ay sa AUTHORITY hindi creation:

    1 Corinthians 15:27
    New Living Translation
    For the Scriptures say, "God has put all things under his authority." (Of course, when it says "all things are under his authority," that does not include God himself, who gave Christ his authority.)

    una sa plano? thats nonsense since time did not exist prior to the creation of the universe.
  • KidlatNgayonKidlatNgayon PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    sophion wrote: »
    una sa plano? thats nonsense since time did not exist prior to the creation of the universe.

    Well, exactly then! Kaya nga maiko-consider Siya na before time! :D Do you think walang plano ang paggawa ng Diyos? Basta-basta na lang? :lol:
  • sophionsophion PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    Well, exactly then! Kaya nga maiko-consider Siya na before time! :D Do you think walang plano ang paggawa ng Diyos? Basta-basta na lang? :lol:

    may plano nga pero walang nauna or nahuli sa plano kasi time did not exist. ibig sabihin parehong level lang kayo ni jeeezus sa plano before the creation of time and space.
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