Trinity — PinoyExchange

# Trinity

Christian Communist

The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God.

The Father is not the Son. The Son is not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not the Father.

Dali lang iinterpret sa math.

2/6 + 2/6 + 2/6 = 1/6 + 2/6 + 3/6 = 1

2/6 = 2/6 = 2/6 (hypostases)
1/6 != 2/6 != 3/6 (prosopa)
«1

• Non est Deus. Fac cum eo.
One equation is wrong. The INC (and the Bible!) said that the Father is greater than the Son. The arithmetic sign is not = but >.
• Christian Communist
Ateo wrote: »
One equation is wrong. The INC (and the Bible!) said that the Father is greater than the Son. The arithmetic sign is not = but >.

refer to the 2nd equation for that. for the first equation shows you the equal natures of the Trinity.

say if 1/6 is the father and 2/6 is the son, by virtue of descending ranking, the father is greater than the son.

and if 3/6 is the holy spirit, by virtue of value, the holy spirit is supreme for you can blaspheme the son and the father (gospel of thomas) but not the holy spirit.
• Member
IS THE HOLY SPIRIT GOD?

Why you dont believe that the Holy Spirit is God? How would you regard the Holy Spirit if it is not God?

ALL THE BELIEFS of the Iglesia Ni Cristo (Church Of Christ) are solely based in the Bible. Thus, our belief regarding the Holy Spirit is what the Bible teaches about it. Why we dont believe that the Holy Spirit is God?

(1) Nowhere in the Bible that explicitly says that the Holy Spirit is God.

There is no single verse of the Bible that says that the Holy Spirit is God, nor that the Holy Spirit is the third person of the trinity. The word Trinity itself is unbiblical or cannot be found in the Bible. The Holy Spirit cannot be the third person of the one true God because the doctrine that God is consists of three persons (God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit) is against the teachings of the Bible. The Bible explicitly teaches that there is only one true God and there is no other God besides Him:

Remember the former things of old, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me. (Isaiah 46:9, NKJV)

(2) The Father alone is the One True God and the Holy Spirit is different from the Father.

The Lord Jesus taught that the Father alone is the true God:

Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You
And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. (John 17:1, 3, NKJV)

He also taught the Holy Spirit is different from the Father:

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. (John 14:26, NKJV)

The Holy Spirit is sent by the Father in Jesus name. Thus, if the Holy Spirit is God there will be two Gods: the Father who sent the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit whom the Father sent in Jesus name.

Thus, the Holy Spirit cannot be God because the Lord Jesus Christ clearly taught that the Father alone is the true God and the Holy Spirit is different from the Father.

(3) The Holy Spirit cannot be God because it cannot possibly be equal to God.

The Trinity doctrine tells that the three persons (God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit) are coequal. However, this doctrine contradicts the teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. The Lord Jesus also taught that the One who sends is greater than the one sent:

Most assuredly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master; nor is he who is sent greater than he who sent him. (John 13:16, NKJV)

And the Lord Jesus Himself also taught the Holy Spirit is sent by the Father:

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. (John 14:26, NKJV)

Thus, the Father (the One who sent) is greater than the Holy Spirit (the one who was sent). The Lord Jesus also taught that He Himself sends the Holy Spirit:

But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me. (John 15:26, NKJV)

The Lord Jesus taught that the One who sends is greater than the one sent. However, the Lord Jesus Himself was sent by the Father, the One True God:

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. (John 17:3, NKJV)

Thus, the Father alone is the true God, and no one else besides Him. The Holy Spirit is the Helper who the Father (the One True God) sends. Therefore, there is no Trinity, there is no Triune God, there is no three persons in One God, and the Holy Spirit is not God.

http://theiglesianicristo.blogspot.ca/2013/12/on-holy-spirit.html
• Member
The Holy Spririt is eternal, omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscience... uh, sounds like a God.

Surprisingly, the Holy Spirit can also speak:

The Holy Spirit said, Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.

the Holy Spirit says that I was angry. They shall never enter my rest.

More surprisingly, the Holy Spirit even knows God's thoughts:

The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God
• Member
Kraven wrote: »
The Holy Spririt is eternal, omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscience... uh, sounds like a God.

Surprisingly, the Holy Spirit can also speak:

The Holy Spirit said, Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.

the Holy Spirit says that I was angry. They shall never enter my rest.

More surprisingly, the Holy Spirit even knows God's thoughts:

The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God

That's the work that God gave to the Holy Spirit when He created it, aside from being the Comforter, the Spirit is to search all things, even the deep things of God.
• Christian Communist
1 John 5:7

King James Version (KJV)

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Matthew 28:19

English Standard Version (ESV)

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
• Member
1 John 5:7

King James Version (KJV)

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Matthew 28:19

1 John 5:6-8
Berean Study bible
6 This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christnot by water alone, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies to this, because the Spirit is the truth. 7 For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit, the water, and the bloodand these three are in agreement.
1 John 5:7-8
New Living Translation
7 So we have these three witnesses--8 the Spirit, the water, and the blood--and all three agree.
English Standard Version (ESV)

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

The Textual Problem in 1 John 5:7-8
https://bible.org/article/textual-problem-1-john-57-8
• Member
1 John 5:7

King James Version (KJV)

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Matthew 28:19

1 John 5:6-8
Berean Study bible
6 This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christnot by water alone, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies to this, because the Spirit is the truth. 7 For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit, the water, and the bloodand these three are in agreement.

1 John 5:7-8
New Living Translation
7 So we have these three witnesses--8 the Spirit, the water, and the blood--and all three agree.

The Textual Problem in 1 John 5:7-8 in King James Version
https://bible.org/article/textual-problem-1-john-57-8[/QUOTE]

English Standard Version (ESV)

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

It's very clear in that verse that the Father is different from the Son and the Holy Spirit - these are three different personas and THEY ARE ALL necessary to be acknowledged for true baptism.
• Christian Communist
KJV version is the defacto choice Bible version on almost all Protestants, thus almost all non-Arian Protestants who subscribe to the KJV are Trinitarian.

Arianism is a heresy hated by the early Church. Obviously the Belief in Trinity is way before the invented concept of Arianism, which the INC and some Protestants subscribe to.

Of course the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit is different from each other in terms of persons. That does not violate the concept of Trinity. But wait, there's more. According to hypostases or nature, they are the same. They are God.

So don't say that the Trinity is not Biblical. Trinity exists in both the Church's Tradition and the Bible.

Where as Arianism is post-Trinity invention by a heretic.
• Member
KJV version is the defacto choice Bible version on almost all Protestants, thus almost all non-Arian Protestants who subscribe to the KJV are Trinitarian.

Arianism is a heresy hated by the early Church. Obviously the Belief in Trinity is way before the invented concept of Arianism, which the INC and some Protestants subscribe to.

Of course the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit is different from each other in terms of persons. That does not violate the concept of Trinity. But wait, there's more. According to hypostases or nature, they are the same. They are God.

So don't say that the Trinity is not Biblical. Trinity exists in both the Church's Tradition and the Bible.

Where as Arianism is post-Trinity invention by a heretic.

Your opinion There are many who disagree even if they aren't members of INC.
• Christian Communist
Your opinion There are many who disagree even if they aren't members of INC.

Matthew 28:19

English Standard Version (ESV)

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

kaya nga in the name, not in the names. so isang nature lang ang tatlong yan. (sorry mejo pilosopo pero yun yun)
• Member
Matthew 28:19

English Standard Version (ESV)

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

kaya nga in the name, not in the names. so isang nature lang ang tatlong yan. (sorry mejo pilosopo pero yun yun)

Ang sabi, in the name of the Father AND OF the son AND OF the Holy Spirit. hindi ka namilosopo, mali ang intindi mo sa grammar. Kung isa yan, In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit WHO ARE ONE AND THE SAME. .

The way it was stated in the bible is formal. If informal, it would have been stated in the names of the Father, the Son and the Holy spirit.

• Christian Communist
Sa programming pag nagdeclare ka ng variable, unique value ang each variable. Pag sinabi mong in the name of the father, and in the name of the son and in the name of the holy spirit, may tatlong instance ka ng name, where each has a unique value. The way it was worded in the bible, single instance ang name, and the three share that single instance of name.
• Member
Sa programming pag nagdeclare ka ng variable, unique value ang each variable. Pag sinabi mong in the name of the father, and in the name of the son and in the name of the holy spirit, may tatlong instance ka ng name, where each has a unique value. The way it was worded in the bible, single instance ang name, and the three share that single instance of name.

Eh bawa't isang tao sa 7 bilyon na nasa mundo, lahat ay may name! single instance di ba? Ano ba ang tingin mo sa Son at Holy Spirit, hindi ba NAMES yan at magkaiba pa???

Kung kukumpletohin ang sentence na yan: In the name of the Father, and in the name of the Son, and in the name of the Holy Spirit! Shortened form: In the name of the Father AND of the Son AND of the Holy Spirit!

At ikaw na rin ang nagsabi, UNIQUE! Alam mo ba ang ibig sabihin ng "unique"?

Alam mong tama ako, aminin!
• Christian Communist
Eh bawa't isang tao sa 7 bilyon na nasa mundo, lahat ay may name! single instance di ba? Ano ba ang tingin mo sa Son at Holy Spirit, hindi ba NAMES yan at magkaiba pa???

Kung kukumpletohin ang sentence na yan: In the name of the Father, and in the name of the Son, and in the name of the Holy Spirit! Shortened form: In the name of the Father AND of the Son AND of the Holy Spirit!

At ikaw na rin ang nagsabi, UNIQUE! Alam mo ba ang ibig sabihin ng "unique"?

Alam mong tama ako, aminin!

pag sinabi mong in the name of the father, in the name of the son, and in the name of the holy spirit, may three instances ng name na unique yan. so tatlong entity na may different names each. thus 3 unique names = 3 names.

sa bible, may intention na iwrap up yan sa isang single instance of name kaya hindi sinabing in the name of the father and in the name of the son and in the name of the holy spirit.

sabi in the name of the father, and of the son and of the holy spirit. 3 persons point to a single name or single nature.

At mahihinuha natin na ang name na yun ay "God". God the Father, and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

Single name (which boils down to the nature), 3 persons sharing that Single Name.

Thus 3 persons, 1 nature. 3 Persons sharing a single "name".

Sa programming,

Name1 = Father
Name2 = Son
Name3 = Holy Spirit

VS

Name = Father, Son, Holy Spirit

Sineparate mo into 3 instances of unique names pag dineclare mo yung 3 variables.

Yung pangalawa, the variable Name ay shineshare ng 3, na ganun yung pagkakapresent sa Bible.
• Member
pag sinabi mong in the name of the father, in the name of the son, and in the name of the holy spirit, may three instances ng name na unique yan. so tatlong entity na may different names each. thus 3 unique names = 3 names.

O, di galing na sayo! Magkakaiba sila, tatlo sila at hindi iisa!
sa bible, may intention na iwrap up yan sa isang single instance of name kaya hindi sinabing in the name of the father and in the name of the son and in the name of the holy spirit.

sabi in the name of the father, and of the son and of the holy spirit. 3 persons point to a single name or single nature.

Tama ang grammar sa bible, ipinipilit mo lang yang sa yo! Itanong mo ke Ferdinand o ke Ben kung anong intindi nila sa grammar sa biblia!
At mahihinuha natin na ang name na yun ay "God". God the Father, and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

Single name (which boils down to the nature), 3 persons sharing that Single Name.

Thus 3 persons, 1 nature. 3 Persons sharing a single "name".

Sa programming,

Name1 = Father
Name2 = Son
Name3 = Holy Spirit

VS

Name = Father, Son, Holy Spirit

Sineparate mo into 3 instances of unique names pag dineclare mo yung 3 variables.

Yung pangalawa, the variable Name ay shineshare ng 3, na ganun yung pagkakapresent sa Bible.

NOPE! Kahit anong pagbali-baliktad ang gawin mo, they still point to 3 different entities. Dapat sa umpisa pa lang at maging sa 10 commandments, ipinakilala na ng Diyos na Siya ay may tatlong persona - ang sabi Niya - I, ALONE, am God!

Alam mo ba ibig sabihin ng "alone"?
• Christian Communist
O, di galing na sayo! Magkakaiba sila, tatlo sila at hindi iisa!

Tama ang grammar sa bible, ipinipilit mo lang yang sa yo! Itanong mo ke Ferdinand o ke Ben kung anong intindi nila sa grammar sa biblia!

NOPE! Kahit anong pagbali-baliktad ang gawin mo, they still point to 3 different entities. Dapat sa umpisa pa lang at maging sa 10 commandments, ipinakilala na ng Diyos na Siya ay may tatlong persona - ang sabi Niya - I, ALONE, am God!

Alam mo ba ibig sabihin ng "alone"?

In the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

The 3 persons are distinguished but point to a single name. Refer to computer programming language for that grammar archetype. As simple as that.

If you can't get that, then i leave it up to you. You don't believe in the Trinity anyway so I expect you to be stubborn on this matter.

I'm not here to convince you. I'm here to tell everyone about how the Trinity is revealed to me, for it is said to be a mystery which will be eventually revealed in time to someone. And help my fellow Trinitarians for it to be not so mysterious but relatable.
• Member

In the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

The 3 persons are distinguished but points to a single name. Refer to computer programming language for that grammar archetype. As simple as that.

If you can't get that, then i leave it up to you. You don't believe in the Trinity anyway so I expect you to be stubborn on this matter.

I'm not here to convince you. I'm here to tell everyone about how the Trinity is revealed to me, for it is said to be a mystery which will be revealed in time in someone. And help my fellow Trinitarians for it to be not so mysterious but relatable.

YOu know everything points to ONE because there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD, as Jesus Christ, Himself, declared - and that is the Father! He is the SOLE CREATOR of everything and Jesus will not deny that.

Jesus, Himself, said that He does NOT desire glory from men, but there is ONE who SEEKS glory from mankind, this is the Father of mankind who is also the Father of Christ; the God of all mankind who is also the GOD OF JESUS!

John 8:50
English Standard Version
Yet I do not seek my own glory; there is One who seeks it, and he is the judge.

John 20:17
King James Bible
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
• Christian Communist
As ive said, Trinity doctrine pre-dates your Arian doctrine and was declared and still is a heresy.

It's biblical. It's part of the Church's tradtion.

It can be understood in Translated and interpreted Terms, the promised revelation of God about this mystery in the Catechism.
• Member
As ive said, Trinity doctrine pre-dates your Arian doctrine and was declared and still is a heresy.

It's biblical. It's part of the Church's tradtion.

It can be understood in Translated and interpreted Terms, the promised revelation of God about this mystery in the Catechism.

What's NOT in the bible is clearly UNBIBLICAL!