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Judaism was used by God for the salvation of man claim na naman ni Jagon :P

ElCidElCid Roman Catholic ✭✭✭
Sabi ni Jaygay sa ibang thread:

on a positive note, during the old covenant, Judaism was used by God for the salvation of man.
on the negative, this religion was given to man to prove to man that it is inefficient. This religion is the fig tree in Matt. 21:19, it did not produce much fruit, and will be fruitless forever

That is why Christ came to be the ONLY WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE.
The Lord said that an hour is coming, and it is NOW, that we will worship in Spirit, this basically tells us that the method of salvation used by Gentiles (mountain), and the Jews (Jerusalem), is discontinued and replaced by Christ.


http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?t=776668&p=73876453&viewfull=1#post73876453

Ang unang claim ni Jaygay: Judaism was used by God for the salvation of man daw during the old covenant. Nax. Parang totoo ah. Para ano daw? To prove that religion is inefficient? lols.

Ano sabi ng biblia? Baket ba may relihiyon ng araw na nagtuturo ng batas? So ang bata para makatakbo dapat matuto muna lumakad, Tutor daw yun sabi ni Pablo:

23But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. Gal 3

May sinabi ba si Pablo na yung dating sistema inefficient gaya ng gusto palabasin ni Jaygay? Hindi. Tutor daw ang batas hanggang dumating si Cristo. Magbibigay ba ang Dios ng paraan ng kaligtasan na walang kabuluhan dahil hindi efficiente? Pangloloko na naman ng mga pastor yan at ng mga tulad ni Jaygay para masilo yung mga may relihiyon para magsilipat sa kanila.

So baket dumating pa si Cristo kung may paraan na pala ng kaligtasan ibinigay sa tao ang Dios sa pamamaraan ng Judaismo at ng batas? Ano ulet ang sabi ng biblia? Para dalhin ang kaligtasan sa mge hentil para maligtas ang buong sanglibutan:

14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Gal 3

So dati exclusive ang ng dumating ang panginoong Jesus naging inclusive. Gaya ng lahat ng bagay, may development from one stage to another. Walang inefficient na ibibgay na paraan ng kaligtasan ang Dios. Hindi pastor ang dios na sasabihin salvation is by faith alone tapos kailangan magbigay ng ikapu? lols. Walang inefficient na ibibigay ang Dios lalo na may kaugnayan sa kaligtasan.

Eh ano itong pinangangaral ni Gag0n - Yung sariling opinion niya.

Comments

  • JagonJagon Don't listen to me ✭✭✭
    siting that Christ was the development of God's salvation to man implies the previous inefficient, if it weren't then there is no need for development.

    this El-Gay clown keeps on making **** up.
  • ElCidElCid Roman Catholic ✭✭✭
    Jagon wrote: »
    siting that Christ was the development of God's salvation to man implies the previous inefficient, if it weren't then there is no need for development.

    this El-Gay clown keeps on making **** up.

    B0b0. Ano palagay mo sa Dios tulad ng pastor niyo? Magbibigay ng paraan ng kaligtasan na inefficiente? May stages lang talaga ang revelation b0b0. Hindi ibig sabihin yung previous stage inefficient. Alangan namang sabihin mo yung embryo ng tao inefficient dahil di pa full functioning human being? B0b0 ka lang talaga. Kaya ano gagawin? Pati walang kinalaman sa discusyon gaya ng nanay ko mumurahin mo na lang din. Yun lang naman kaya mo gawin wala ka kaseng utak. :rotflmao: B0b0 lols.
  • JagonJagon Don't listen to me ✭✭✭
    ElCid wrote: »
    B0b0. Ano palagay mo sa Dios tulad ng pastor niyo? Magbibigay ng paraan ng kaligtasan na inefficiente? May stages lang talaga ang revelation b0b0. Hindi ibig sabihin yung previous stage inefficient. Alangan namang sabihin mo yung embryo ng tao inefficient dahil di pa full functioning human being? B0b0 ka lang talaga. Kaya ano gagawin? Pati walang kinalaman sa discusyon gaya ng nanay ko mumurahin mo na lang din. Yun lang naman kaya mo gawin wala ka kaseng utak. :rotflmao: B0b0 lols.

    umpisa pa lang strawman na, ano kinalaman ng mga pastor diyan sa argumento?

    if you are asking if God can create or mold something that has negative qualities, then yes He can. For instance, He must have created you stupid so to prove that religion attracts stupid people.
  • Frank_MackyFrank_Macky Heretic / Infidel ✭✭
    ElCid wrote: »
    Sabi ni Jaygay sa ibang thread:

    on a positive note, during the old covenant, Judaism was used by God for the salvation of man.
    on the negative, this religion was given to man to prove to man that it is inefficient. This religion is the fig tree in Matt. 21:19, it did not produce much fruit, and will be fruitless forever
    So Jagon's mistake-prone god created an inefficient religion, and had to have his own son killed later in order to fix his Judaism screwup...

    :rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:


    Eh ano itong pinangangaral ni Gag0n - Yung sariling opinion niya.
    What do you expect from a Makeitupasyougoist-ian ?
  • JagonJagon Don't listen to me ✭✭✭
    So Jagon's mistake-prone god created an inefficient religion, and had to have his own son killed later in order to fix his Judaism screwup...

    how can you say that it's a mistake when everything was well planned or if you want, well schemed.

    What do you expect from a Makeitupasyougoist-ian ?

    i didnt made that up, it's in the Bible.
  • KidlatNgayonKidlatNgayon Member ✭✭✭
    Note that God created humans (and even angels) with free will. Hindi kinokontrol ng Diyos ang development ng history na ginagawa ng tao (maging ng anghel) pero everything is foreseen. The only plan that God explicitly narrated in the bible is Jesus Christ as Messiah and Savior of His Chosen People.

    Even the hardening of pharaoh's heart was not planned but at that moment was decided by God to show results which people should see and contemplate for themselves.
  • JagonJagon Don't listen to me ✭✭✭
    Note that God created humans (and even angels) with free will. Hindi kinokontrol ng Diyos ang development ng history na ginagawa ng tao (maging ng anghel) pero everything is foreseen. The only plan that God explicitly narrated in the bible is Jesus Christ as Messiah and Savior of His Chosen People.

    Even the hardening of pharaoh's heart was not planned but at that moment was decided by God to show results which people should see and contemplate for themselves.

    God knows our heart, even if we have free will, He knows what our hearts chooses.

    this is called the absolute sovereignty of God.


    Picture this, Digong (not his real name) died and he is now on the doorsteps of heaven, will he enter or will he not? that is free will.

    now, he chooses to enter, he opened the door and let himself in, the first thing he notices is a sign board that says "welcome my dear son Digong".

    this is God's sovereignty, He knows what you will choose.
  • KidlatNgayonKidlatNgayon Member ✭✭✭
    Jagon wrote: »
    God knows our heart, even if we have free will, He knows what our hearts chooses.

    this is called the absolute sovereignty of God.

    Totoo yan dahil alam ng Diyos ang nasa puso ng bawa't isang tao.

    So, e ano ngayon kung alam ng Diyos ang nasa puso natin? Diyos ba ang me gagawin para sa ikaliligtas ng tao matapos na ngang ibigay Niya ang Kanyang Anak sa lupa o tao ang dapat may gawin dahil nasa bilbia ang instruction kung paano maliligtas?

    Sabi sa biblia, gusto ng Diyos na maligtas ang lahat pero ano? Anong kaibahan ng KAGUSTUHAN ng Diyos sa GAGAWIN ng Diyos?

    Picture this, Digong (not his real name) died and he is now on the doorsteps of heaven, will he enter or will he not? that is free will.

    now, he chooses to enter, he opened the door and let himself in, the first thing he notices is a sign board that says "welcome my dear son Digong".

    this is God's sovereignty, He knows what you will choose.

    Firstly, walang ganyan. Kapag namatay ang tao na hindi pa siya ligtas, wala na siyang pag-asang maligtas. Mahilig kayo sa FANTASY na may ganyang kakatok sa pinto ng kalangitan at me sasalubong at mag-we-welcome sa mga "kaluluwa" na umalis sa katawang patay. WALANG GANYAN!!!

    Sabi sa biblia:

    THE FOLLOWING VERSES state the condition of the dead:


    (1) He shall never return, nor shall his place know him anymore:

    “As the cloud disappears and vanishes away, So he who goes down to the grave does not come up. He shall never return to his house, Nor shall his place know him anymore. ‘Therefore I will not restrain my mouth; I will speak in the anguish of my spirit; I will complain in the bitterness of my soul.” (Job 7:9-11, NKJV)


    (2) He remembers no more:

    “Adrift among the dead, Like the slain who lie in the grave, Whom You remember no more, And who are cut off from Your hand.” (Psalms 88:5, NKJV)


    (3) His thoughts perish:

    “His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.” (Psalms 146:4, KJV)


    (4) They know nothing:

    “For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5, NKJV)


    (5) Nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun:

    “For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; Nevermore will they have a share In anything done under the sun.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5-6, NKJV)


    (6) The dead lies on his grave “till the heavens are no more” or until the Day of Judgment:

    “But man dies and is laid away; Indeed he breathes his last And where is he? As water disappears from the sea, And a river becomes parched and dries up, So man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more, They will not awake Nor be roused from their sleep.” (Job 14:10-12 NKJV)

    “But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
    “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.” (II Peter 3:7, 10, NKJV)

    Meron bang kaluluwa na "aakyat sa langit? Anong sinasabi sa biblia?

    MAN IS COMPOSED OF BODY, SOUL AND SPIRIT

    The Bible tells us that man is composed of body, soul and spirit:

    “May the God who gives us peace make you holy in every way and keep your whole being--spirit, soul, and body--free from every fault at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (I Thessalonians 5:23, TEV)

    Because man is compose of body, soul and spirit, let us find out what will happen to man’s body soul and spirit when he dies according to the Bible.


    THE BODY RETURNS TO DUST

    The body is the flesh created from dust:

    “And the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” (Genesis 6:3 New King James Version)

    “And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.” (Genesis 2:7 NKJV)

    Thus, when a person dies, he will go back to dust, as what the Bible explicitly said:

    “After all, the same fate awaits man and animal alike. One dies just like the other. They are the same kind of creature. A human being is no better off than an animal, because life has no meaning for either. They are both going to the same place--the dust. They both came from it; they will both go back to it.” (Ecclesiastes 3:19-20, TEV)

    The Bible said, “A human being is no better off than an animal” during death because “They are both going to the same place—the dust.” This is the biblical truth about death, that both human beings and animals will go the same place when they died – the dust, because “both came from it; they will both go back to it.”

    THE SOULD AND SPIRIT ARE NOT THE SAME

    The Bible also explicitly declared that the soul and the spirit are not one and the same:

    “For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.” (Hebrews 4:12, NIV)

    If the soul and the spirit are not one and the same, thus, what will happen to the soul is different to what will happen to the spirit when a person dies.


    WHEN A PERSON DIES, HIS SOUL ALSO DIES

    The Soul is the inner nature or inner person of a man:


    “So we do not lose heart. Though our outer nature is wasting away, our inner nature is being renewed every day.” (II Corinthians 4:16, RSV)

    “Therefore we do not despair, o but even if our physical body is wearing away, our inner person is being renewed day by day.” (New English Translation)

    Contrary to the popular belief, the Bible explicitly tells us that when a person dies, the soul also dies:

    “Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sins shall die.” (Ezekiel 18:4 RSV)

    Thus, the biblical teaching about the soul does not conform with the popular belief about the immortality of the soul. The bible clearly tells us that when a person dies, his “inner person” or his soul also dies.


    THE SPIRIT IS THE BREATH OF LIFE

    The Bible teaches that the spirit is the breath of life:

    “All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.” (Genesis 7:22 KJV)

    “As long as I have life within me, the breath of God in my nostrils.” (Job 27:3, NIV)

    Thus, when a person dies, as his body returns to dust, his “spirit” (the “breath of life”) returns to God who gave it:

    “And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.” (Ecclesiastes 12:7 RSV)


    CONCLUSION

    Thus, what will happen to a person when he dies? His body will return to dust; his soul or inner person also dies; and the spirit or breathe of life will go back to God who gave it


    SO WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THE DEAD ON THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST?

    the Bible states that there are persons who have gone up to heaven such Enoch, Elijah, and the Lord Jesus Christ (cf. Gen. 5:22,24; Heb. 11:5; II Kings 2:1, 11; Acts 1:11). But it must be noted that except for Christ, the other two went up to heaven without having experienced death.

    After he begot Methuselah, Enoch walked with God three hundred years, and had sons and daughters. So all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years. And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him. (Gen. 5:22,24, New King James Version)

    By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. (Heb. 11:5, NKJV)

    And it came to pass, when the Lord was about to take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal. ( II Kings 2:1, NKJV)

    who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.” (Acts 1:11, NKJV)

    In the case of the Lord Jesus Christ, He did not remain in the grave because God had risen Him from the dead and took Him up into heaven after 40 days (cf. Acts 1:3-4, 9).

    to whom He also presented Himself alive after His suffering by many infallible proofs, being seen by them during forty days and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God. And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. (Acts 1:3-4, 9, NKJV)

    The Lord ascended into heaven to prepare a place for His servants (cf. Jn. 14:1-3) The fact that He is to PREPARE such place is a clear proof that man does not immediately receive his reward or punishment upon death.

    “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.
    (John 14:1-3, NKJV)

    The Bible also makes it clear that only on the second advent of the Lord Jesus Christ that everyone will be judged—only then will man accept the reward or punishment for all his deeds, whether good or evil (cf. Rev. 22:11-12; Jn. 5:28-29). On that day, those who died in Christ will be risen first and together with those true Christians who still live, will be gathered to meet the Lord in the air (cf. I Thess. 4:16-17).

    He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.” “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. (Rev. 22:11-12, NKJV)

    Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. (John 5:28-29, NKJV)

    For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. (I Thess. 4:16-17, NKJV)



    HOW CAN PEOPLE MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE SAVED BEFORE THEY DIE?

    When our Lord Jesus Christ told His apostles that His second coming was near, He qualified His statement by saying:

    ".. .when you see all these things, know that it is near, at the very doors" (Mt. 24:33, New King James Version)

    What are these things that the Savior was referring to, which, when they would have taken place, indicate that the day of judgment is near? The Lord Jesus Christ explained, thus:

    And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled-for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

    "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.

    'All these art the beginning of sorrows" (Mt. 24:6-8, Ibid.)

    All of these signs mentioned by the Lord Jesus Christ have already taken place and continue to happen in fulfillment of the Savior's prophesies. Therefore the day of judgment is very near because it is in these last days that "these things" prophesied by Christ have been fulfilled.

    However, no one knows the exact date when Judgment Day will take place, no one, not even Christ but only the Father (cf. Mt. 24:36).

    No one knows the day or hour. The angels in heaven don't know, and the Son himself doesn't know. Only the Father knows. (Mt. 24:36, Contemporary English Version)

    Hence, the Savior warned us to be ready, for He is coming at an hour when no one expects Him (cf. Mt. 24:44).

    Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. (Mt. 24:44, NKJV)

    We must ready ourselves for that day. But how must we prepare for Christ's second coming? Apostle Paul was very clear on the matter:

    And so, my friends, as you wait for that Day, do your best to be pure and faultless in God's sight and to be at peace with him" (II Peter 3:14, Today's English Version)[/B]

    But where can one find this peace?

    This peace can be found in the one body, the Church of which Christ is the head (cf. Col. 3:15; 1:18).

    And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful. (Col. 3:15, NKJV)

    And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. (Col. 1:18, NKJV)

    This Church is the Church o f Christ which was redeemed, by the Savior's own blood (Acts 20:28, Lamsa)

    Take heed therefore to yourselves and to all the flock, over which the Holy Spirit has appointed you overseers, to feed the church of Christ which he has purchased with his blood. (Acts 20:28, Lamsa)

    Those who have become members of the Church or parts of the body are very certain that on Judgment Day they will not be condemned (cf. Rom 12:4-5: Rom. 8:1).

    For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function, 5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another. (Rom. 12:4-5, NKJV)

    There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. (Rom. 8:1, NKJV)

    Thus, to prepare oneself for the day of Judgment he must join the Church of Christ and endure to the end (cf. Mt. 24:13).

    But he who endures to the end shall be saved. (Mt. 24:13, NKJV)
  • Frank_MackyFrank_Macky Heretic / Infidel ✭✭
    Jagon wrote: »
    how can you say that it's a mistake when everything was well planned or if you want, well schemed.
    Oh, sorry.

    I didn't realize that mistakes are part of your god's plans. :glee: :glee: :glee:
  • Frank_MackyFrank_Macky Heretic / Infidel ✭✭
    Even the hardening of pharaoh's heart was not planned but at that moment was decided by God to show results which people should see and contemplate for themselves.
    So because your "all-knowing god who doesn't plan ahead" decided to do something at the spur of the moment, that somehow means the Pharaoh still had free will??!? I totally don't get this moronic line of reasoning you're employing above.

    Maybe you should watch the video carefully so you understand how RIDICULOUS it is to claim that humans have free will and then in the same breath say that your god hardened the Pharaoh's heart.

    If a ten-year old (like I was when I first heard this story) can understand that, I don't see why it is so hard for adults to figure out the same.
  • JagonJagon Don't listen to me ✭✭✭
    Oh, sorry.

    I didn't realize that mistakes are part of your god's plans. :glee: :glee: :glee:

    they are not mistakes if they occurred as planned.

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