Making Sense of John 2:1-5
Lady Chablis
Member
How do you make sense of this conversation between Jesus and Mary in John 2:1-5? It appears they are in conflict. Or are they really? Certainly, they are not a dysfunctional family.
John 2:1-5
1 On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus' mother was there, 2 and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine was gone, Jesus' mother said to him, "They have no more wine." 4 "Woman, why do you involve me?", Jesus replied. "My hour has not yet come." His mother said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you."
Yet, He did change water into wine.
John 2:1-5
1 On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus' mother was there, 2 and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine was gone, Jesus' mother said to him, "They have no more wine." 4 "Woman, why do you involve me?", Jesus replied. "My hour has not yet come." His mother said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you."
Yet, He did change water into wine.
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Comments
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Actually, "Woman, why do you involve me?" is more accurately translated to:
"Woman, what do I have in this that concerns you?"
which is actually a Hebrew idiom, which means:
what is there to Me and to you?
so to put the passage into simple words, Jesus and His mother was invited and went to a wedding feast in Cana of Galilee, the mother of Jesus noticed that there is no more wine and told this to Jesus, Jesus said to her that it should not be our problem because my duty has not started yet (meaning they should just enjoy the party while the start of His sufferings has not yet started)......and so on..0 -
Actually, "Woman, why do you involve me?" is more accurately translated to:
"Woman, what do I have in this that concerns you?"
which is actually a Hebrew idiom, which means:
what is there to Me and to you?
so to put the passage into simple words, Jesus and His mother was invited and went to a wedding feast in Cana of Galilee, the mother of Jesus noticed that there is no more wine and told this to Jesus, Jesus said to her that it should not be our problem because my duty has not started yet (meaning they should just enjoy the party while the start of His sufferings has not yet started)......and so on..
That still does not make sense. I think your mundane explanation arises from a simplistic view of a complex conversation between two persons who are about to execute God's plan of salvation. There must be a deeper theological meaning to their conversation. Why did He address her "woman", which is unheard way of calling one's mother especially in Middle Eastern culture? Why did Jesus turn water into wine when at first He seemed to imply He wasn't going to do it?0 -
Lady Chablis wrote: »That still does not make sense. I think your mundane explanation arises from a simplistic view of a complex conversation between two persons who are about to execute God's plan of salvation. There must be a deeper theological meaning to their conversation. Why did He address her "woman", which is unheard way of calling one's mother especially in Middle Eastern culture? Why did Jesus turn water into wine when at first He seemed to imply He wasn't going to do it?
Apart from Jesus never calling Mary "mother", but instead has always called her "Woman", calling "woman" a lady is an expression of respect, as per Jewish culture. It's basically exempting Mary of her obligation to Him, it's like if Jesus called Mary "mother", it means that He is being a clingy mama's boy.
so what you said about middle eastern culture is partly incorrect, because Jewish people do call their moms "Woman", well most of the older ones.
now as for the wine, this is the first wonder the Lord had performed, turning water into wine, this basically means turning death to life, that is why all the following miracles are also base on turning death to life.
Mary is typified by our natural man, she was the one who noticed that there was no wine, here Jesus somehow delayed what He is supposed to do, Mary knew that He is the only one who can fix this, so she told the problem to Him, but then Jesus told her, we have nothing to do with it: this means that we are easy to determine our sufferings and ask the Lord immediately to fix things, but the Lord does not work like this, He will do things accordingly in His time. Mary realized this, so she told the servants to do as He says.
This means that if we are encountering hardships in life, our first concern is to let the Lord do what He sees fit, not telling the Lord what He needs to do to fix our problem. If we are sick, we shouldn't ask the Lord to heal our sickness, but instead let the death we are suffering to show, let us be buried in our deadened condition, and then the Lord will do His thing, because it is the hour that is to come for Him.0 -
Apart from Jesus never calling Mary "mother", but instead has always called her "Woman", calling "woman" a lady is an expression of respect, as per Jewish culture. It's basically exempting Mary of her obligation to Him, it's like if Jesus called Mary "mother", it means that He is being a clingy mama's boy.
so what you said about middle eastern culture is partly incorrect, because Jewish people do call their moms "Woman", well most of the older ones.
now as for the wine, this is the first wonder the Lord had performed, turning water into wine, this basically means turning death to life, that is why all the following miracles are also base on turning death to life.
Mary is typified by our natural man, she was the one who noticed that there was no wine, here Jesus somehow delayed what He is supposed to do, Mary knew that He is the only one who can fix this, so she told the problem to Him, but then Jesus told her, we have nothing to do with it: this means that we are easy to determine our sufferings and ask the Lord immediately to fix things, but the Lord does not work like this, He will do things accordingly in His time. Mary realized this, so she told the servants to do as He says.
This means that if we are encountering hardships in life, our first concern is to let the Lord do what He sees fit, not telling the Lord what He needs to do to fix our problem. If we are sick, we shouldn't ask the Lord to heal our sickness, but instead let the death we are suffering to show, let us be buried in our deadened condition, and then the Lord will do His thing, because it is the hour that is to come for Him.
Although calling his mother "woman" is not a sign of disrespect or rudeness it still is an impersonal way of addressing one's mother. Maybe, for some reasons, Jesus was trying to distance himself from her mother, but equating "woman" as an assertion that He is not a clingy Mama's boy is mundane and unimaginable for the Son of God. I think Jesus calling Mary "woman" hearkens to Genesis 3, "I will put enmity between you and the woman, between your offspring and hers; he will bruise your head and he will strike your heel." It subtly acknowledges that the woman in Genesis 3 is Mary.
I like the symbolism you attach to turning "water into wine" as recurring theme of Jesus" miracles of turning death into life. I wasn't fully aware of that. Now, I know. Thanks.
Jesus and Mary are conscious of their roles in salvation. They are aware that changing water into wine will usher His public ministry and from then on life will never be the same. There's a price to be paid. She will no longer be just the mother of the Nazarene carpenter but the mother of the Son of God and His disciples. She will be persecuted just as they persecute Him and His disciples. A spear will pierce his side and a sword will pierce her soul. Life is going to be brutal. When Mary tells Jesus, "They have no more wine," His response is "Woman, what is there to me and to you." (your translation). It's like, "Woman, you know the consequences once I declare my divinity by turning water into wine? Are you willing to pay the price?" When Mary instructs the servants, "Do whatever He tells you to do" she assents with her own freewill. He changes water into wine, his first miracle, to begin his public ministry.0 -
Lady Chablis wrote: »Although calling his mother "woman" is not a sign of disrespect or rudeness it still is an impersonal way of addressing one's mother. Maybe, for some reasons, Jesus was trying to distance himself from her mother, but equating "woman" as an assertion that He is not a clingy Mama's boy is mundane and unimaginable for the Son of God. I think Jesus calling Mary "woman" hearkens to Genesis 3, "I will put enmity between you and the woman, between your offspring and hers; he will bruise your head and he will strike your heel." It subtly acknowledges that the woman in Genesis 3 is Mary.
I like the symbolism you attach to turning "water into wine" as recurring theme of Jesus" miracles of turning death into life. I wasn't fully aware of that. Now, I know. Thanks.
Jesus and Mary are conscious of their roles in salvation. They are aware that changing water into wine will usher His public ministry and from then on life will never be the same. There's a price to be paid. She will no longer be just the mother of the Nazarene carpenter but the mother of the Son of God and His disciples. She will be persecuted just as they persecute Him and His disciples. A spear will pierce his side and a sword will pierce her soul. Life is going to be brutal. When Mary tells Jesus, "They have no more wine," His response is "Woman, what is there to me and to you." (your translation). It's like, "Woman, you know the consequences once I declare my divinity by turning water into wine? Are you willing to pay the price?" When Mary instructs the servants, "Do whatever He tells you to do" she assents with her own freewill. He changes water into wine, his first miracle, to begin his public ministry.
Mother of God is not something I will associate Mary with.
Jesus and Mary are conscious of their roles in salvation - Not sure also about this being biblical.
Are you catholic by any chance?0 -
Mother of God is not something I will associate Mary with.
Jesus and Mary are conscious of their roles in salvation - Not sure also about this being biblical.
Are you catholic by any chance?
Jesus is God....following that reasoning, it is but fair to call Mary as the Mother of God....0 -
@mzabat2: Yes, I'm Roman Catholic although at one time I toyed at the idea of joining the Rock Church, a Protestant denomination. I attended its twice-a-week Bible study for 8 months. To make the story short I'm back to my Roman Catholic faith.0
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Lady Chablis wrote: »What makes you think it is not biblical?
I think Jesus Christ is the only one who has the role for our our salvation0 -
So it means that if there was no Mother of God, there will be no God?
loaded question but I'll still answer that......
remember, we are talking about the incarnate God and NOT the Spirit of God nor the God of creation......thus, if there was no human mother, the incarnate God wouldn't have been able to fulfill His role as our redeemer......0 -
loaded question but I'll still answer that......
remember, we are talking about the incarnate God and NOT the Spirit of God nor the God of creation......thus, if there was no human mother, the incarnate God wouldn't have been able to fulfill His role as our redeemer......
I thought the incarnate God was human, born of a human woman?
emphasis on incarnate.0 -
loaded question but I'll still answer that......
remember, we are talking about the incarnate God and NOT the Spirit of God nor the God of creation......thus, if there was no human mother, the incarnate God wouldn't have been able to fulfill His role as our redeemer......
There is no such thing as an "incarnate" God. The bible is explicit:
Numbers 23:19
New International Version
God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?
Ezekiel 28:2
New Living Translation
"Son of man, give the prince of Tyre this message from the Sovereign LORD: "In your great pride you claim, 'I am a god! I sit on a divine throne in the heart of the sea.' But you are only a man and not a god, though you boast that you are a god.
God, Himself, said:
Hosea 11;9
English Standard Version
I will not execute my burning anger; I will not again destroy Ephraim; for I am God and not a man, the Holy One in your midst, and I will not come in wrath.
^Did God lie when He said this and turned himself into a man (incarnate)?0 -
Lady Chablis wrote: »How do you make sense of this conversation between Jesus and Mary in John 2:1-5? It appears they are in conflict. Or are they really? Certainly, they are not a dysfunctional family.
John 2:1-5
1 On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus' mother was there, 2 and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine was gone, Jesus' mother said to him, "They have no more wine." 4 "Woman, why do you involve me?", Jesus replied. "My hour has not yet come." His mother said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you."
Yet, He did change water into wine.
Bakit nangingailam si Maria sa kasal?
Malamang kasal ni Jeeezas ito.
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