Catholic Church demoted saints. Papal infalliability failed doctrine
zapebayota
Member
Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church that states that, in virtue of the promise of Jesus to Peter, the Pope is preserved from the possibility of error[1]
Ref
"Infallibility means more than exemption from actual error; it means exemption from the possibility of error," P. J. Toner, Infallibility, Catholic Encyclopedia, 1910
in short kapag nagdecide na ang papa hindi na pwedeng baguhin ang doktrina
pero pinatutunayan ng history na ang daming binagong doktrina at mga desisyon nito sa pagdeclare ng mga santo
When Pope Paul VI revised the canon of saints in 1969, some traditional saints were downgraded because of doubts about their stories, if not necessarily their existence. Saint Christopher, for example, is thought to have been martyred under the Roman emperor Decius in the third century, but nothing else is known about him. The well-known story about his having carried the Christ child across a river--the kid supposedly became staggeringly heavy because he bore the weight of the world--is now recognized as pious fiction.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2010/04/your_halo_please.html
Your Halo, Please?
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Can the Pope revoke someone's sainthood?
By Brian Palmer
Pope John Paul II. Click image to expand.
Pope John Paul II
The Catholic Church may delay the October beatification of Pope John Paul II as critics inside and outside the church investigate his role in protecting abusive priests and covering up their crimes. A Polish newspaper also claims that the French nun whom the late pope is supposed to have miraculously cured of Parkinson's disease was actually suffering from a differentand treatabledisorder. Others allege that her symptoms were probably all in her head to start with. If Pope John Paul II is beatified or canonized and it later turns out that he engaged in illegal activities or that his miracles were transparently bogus, would he be stripped of his sainthood?
Probably not. The Roman Catholic Church has no process for reopening the dossier of an officially recognized saint, so anyone who manages to make it into the canon is set for eternity. The only time the Church has ever come close to downgrading a group of saints was in 1969, when Pope Paul VI called for a review of those who achieved their status before the institution of formal canonization proceedings in the 13th century. Prior to that time, local bishops approved thousands of saints without consulting the pontiff. (A group of cardinals noted in 1247 that few of the early saints would have achieved their status under Vatican scrutiny.) When Paul VI looked back at some of these early cases, he found that some revered old-timersincluding the popular St. Christophermay never have existed. But these figures weren't un-sainted; the pope just took away their feast days.
Sainthood doesn't mean very much for the people who are so honored, according to Church doctrine. The act of canonization itself has no bearing on the ultimate destination of a saint's soul; it merely certifies, for the benefit of people on Earth, that the deceased is with God. As such, Catholics around the world are allowed to pray to the saint and ask him to intercede with God on their behalf. So even if the Pope did reverse a canonization, the former saint would not be ripped from God's loving arms and cast into the flames. Not even the Pope has that kind of power.
The relationship of papal infallibility to canonization is controversial. That doctrine applies when the pope is making a solemn decree on a matter of faith or morals. The language used in declaring a saint"we solemnly decide and define"does suggest that infallibility might be in play, but no high priest has ever made a point of invoking it. Thomas Aquinas, for one, believed that canonization was an infallible acteven before he was canonized himself. Still, most modern theologians think the pope could reverse a sainthood without undermining the doctrine.
Fortunately for the Vatican, the lives of most saints are buried under centuries of history and reams of adoring hagiography, so embarrassing allegations typically arise before canonization is complete. (For example, allegations of miracle-fraud and sexual misconduct dogged Padre Pio in the years leading up to his canonization in 2002.) There is one conspicuous exception to this rule: In 1985, an Italian journalist alleged that a turn-of-the-century martyr named Maria Gorettiwho was canonized by Pope Pius XII in 1950 after dying in defense of her sexual puritywas merely playing hard-to-get and that Pius fabricated the innocent-Italian-virgin angle to stir up Catholic anger against of the sexually liberated American occupation force. The Vatican's body for vetting saintly candidates refused to reopen the case, so Goretti's sainthood was never in danger. Rather, the Vatican convened a group of independent scholars who concluded the allegations were false. The committee was not asked to offer a recommendation on whether the canonization decision was itself correct nor did it ever consider doing so.
THE EVER CHANGING DOCTRINE of the roman catholic church
Ref
"Infallibility means more than exemption from actual error; it means exemption from the possibility of error," P. J. Toner, Infallibility, Catholic Encyclopedia, 1910
in short kapag nagdecide na ang papa hindi na pwedeng baguhin ang doktrina
pero pinatutunayan ng history na ang daming binagong doktrina at mga desisyon nito sa pagdeclare ng mga santo
When Pope Paul VI revised the canon of saints in 1969, some traditional saints were downgraded because of doubts about their stories, if not necessarily their existence. Saint Christopher, for example, is thought to have been martyred under the Roman emperor Decius in the third century, but nothing else is known about him. The well-known story about his having carried the Christ child across a river--the kid supposedly became staggeringly heavy because he bore the weight of the world--is now recognized as pious fiction.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2010/04/your_halo_please.html
Your Halo, Please?
5
2
0
Can the Pope revoke someone's sainthood?
By Brian Palmer
Pope John Paul II. Click image to expand.
Pope John Paul II
The Catholic Church may delay the October beatification of Pope John Paul II as critics inside and outside the church investigate his role in protecting abusive priests and covering up their crimes. A Polish newspaper also claims that the French nun whom the late pope is supposed to have miraculously cured of Parkinson's disease was actually suffering from a differentand treatabledisorder. Others allege that her symptoms were probably all in her head to start with. If Pope John Paul II is beatified or canonized and it later turns out that he engaged in illegal activities or that his miracles were transparently bogus, would he be stripped of his sainthood?
Probably not. The Roman Catholic Church has no process for reopening the dossier of an officially recognized saint, so anyone who manages to make it into the canon is set for eternity. The only time the Church has ever come close to downgrading a group of saints was in 1969, when Pope Paul VI called for a review of those who achieved their status before the institution of formal canonization proceedings in the 13th century. Prior to that time, local bishops approved thousands of saints without consulting the pontiff. (A group of cardinals noted in 1247 that few of the early saints would have achieved their status under Vatican scrutiny.) When Paul VI looked back at some of these early cases, he found that some revered old-timersincluding the popular St. Christophermay never have existed. But these figures weren't un-sainted; the pope just took away their feast days.
Sainthood doesn't mean very much for the people who are so honored, according to Church doctrine. The act of canonization itself has no bearing on the ultimate destination of a saint's soul; it merely certifies, for the benefit of people on Earth, that the deceased is with God. As such, Catholics around the world are allowed to pray to the saint and ask him to intercede with God on their behalf. So even if the Pope did reverse a canonization, the former saint would not be ripped from God's loving arms and cast into the flames. Not even the Pope has that kind of power.
The relationship of papal infallibility to canonization is controversial. That doctrine applies when the pope is making a solemn decree on a matter of faith or morals. The language used in declaring a saint"we solemnly decide and define"does suggest that infallibility might be in play, but no high priest has ever made a point of invoking it. Thomas Aquinas, for one, believed that canonization was an infallible acteven before he was canonized himself. Still, most modern theologians think the pope could reverse a sainthood without undermining the doctrine.
Fortunately for the Vatican, the lives of most saints are buried under centuries of history and reams of adoring hagiography, so embarrassing allegations typically arise before canonization is complete. (For example, allegations of miracle-fraud and sexual misconduct dogged Padre Pio in the years leading up to his canonization in 2002.) There is one conspicuous exception to this rule: In 1985, an Italian journalist alleged that a turn-of-the-century martyr named Maria Gorettiwho was canonized by Pope Pius XII in 1950 after dying in defense of her sexual puritywas merely playing hard-to-get and that Pius fabricated the innocent-Italian-virgin angle to stir up Catholic anger against of the sexually liberated American occupation force. The Vatican's body for vetting saintly candidates refused to reopen the case, so Goretti's sainthood was never in danger. Rather, the Vatican convened a group of independent scholars who concluded the allegations were false. The committee was not asked to offer a recommendation on whether the canonization decision was itself correct nor did it ever consider doing so.
THE EVER CHANGING DOCTRINE of the roman catholic church
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Comments
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butthurt ang ever changing doctrine of the pagan church
papal infalliability nagdeclare ng saints tapos babawiin?
HIndi lang yan sa dami ng binawi nila di pala sila sure dun sa history ng mga tao, RH paano pa kaya yung mga claims nila na sila daw ay apostolic 0 -
How can we be butthurted when you are proving time and time again that you are just spreading lies?
Sabi sa title mo "Catholic Church demoted saints. ", nasaan yung listahan? nasaan yung official position ng simbahan sa post mo? Wala! Edi nagkakalat ka lang talaga ng kasinungalingan..... INS nga!
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How can we be butthurted when you are proving time and time again that you are just spreading lies?
Sabi sa title mo "Catholic Church demoted saints. ", nasaan yung listahan? nasaan yung official position ng simbahan sa post mo? Wala! Edi nagkakalat ka lang talaga ng kasinungalingan..... INS nga!
St. Barbara
http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1961/04/20/page/79/article/saint-george-demoted-2d-in-two-days
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1243&dat=19690512&id=Ff5XAAAAIBAJ&sjid=CfcDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4695,5256990
POPE MARCHES 40 SAINTS OFF OFFICIAL CHURCH CALENDAR
From: Wire ServicesUPI
Vatican City The Roman Catholic church dropped St. Christopher, the travelers' patron, and more than 40 other saints from its official calendar Friday.
In a separate action it also made optional the commemoration of more than 90 other saints, including St. Nicholas, from whom evolved the Christmas legend of Santa Claus.
Those dropped from the liturgical calendar were removed because of doubt that they ever existed. The action seemed certain to confuse many Catholics who have been venerating them for years.
The reclassification of St. Nicholas, whose legend as patron saint of children grew in some countries into the Santa Claus tradition, was made for a different reason.
Church authorities stressed that there was no doubt of the authenticity of St. Nicholas, a southern Italian bishop, or of another saint similarly affected-St. George, the legendary dragon slayer who has been patron saint of England since the Crusades.
Their commemoration was made an option of local authorities throughout the world simply to relieve the entire church of the obligation to honor saints not universally well-known, Vatican spokesmen said. Perhaps the best-known saint to be dropped was St. Christopher, patron saint of travelers, who tradition says carried a child across a swollen ford and discovered the child was Christ. Millions of St. Christopher medals are attached to automobile interiors to invoke St. Christopher's help for a safe trip.
The sweeping reform of the list which includes feasts, fasts, special days, and other religious occasions-downgraded saints whose existence or exploits are now doubtful. The decree was aimed at putting more emphasis on the crucifixion and Christ.
The exact number of saints affected by the decree, dated Feb. 14 and effective Jan. 1, was not known because the Vatican did not issue an official list of those dropped or demoted, only of those still in good standing. Newsmen had to compare old calendars with the new list. There were at least 40 affected.
Comparison of lists took hours and was complicated by the new list which was issued only in Latin language. Confusion was compounded by the fact that some of the expunged saints were inadequately identified. Among those also reduced in stature was St. George, once considered to be the model of knighthood, and credited in legend with slaying of the dragon.
Saint Nicholas, a third century saint whose Latin name, Sanctus Nicolaus, gradually became Santa Claus, remains on the church calendar. But Catholics are no longer obliged to honor him on his special dayDec. 6.
There isn't any Santa Clausand that's official. The Vatican Friday demoted St. Nicholas, above. At the same time, in a sweeping calendar reform. Pope Paul VI eliminated another of the most popular of all Catholic saints, St. Christopher, whose medallion, below, hangs around the necks of millions of travelers.
UPI
http://www.stnicholascenter.org/pages/upi/
THE Vatican has dropped several saints from its officially approved list either because they are no longer deemed saintly enough or because they are bogus.
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/philomena-among-demoted-saints-26070080.html
http://catholicism.org/valentine-to-a-saint-demoted-lets-be-devoted.html
Valentine: To a Saint Demoted Lets Be Devoted
ang mga uto uto lang maniniwala dito na hindi dinemote ng vatican itong mga bogus na santo daw.0 -
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meron pang isa: hindi nyo naiintindihan ang ibig sabihin ng "papal infallibility."0
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"karumaldumal kayo."
that, i believe is cultist and protestant dogma. however, i prefer to use the word "doctrine."0 -
always? a belief could possibly be wrong? oh, yeah. 0
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you better read his post and see if there are any articles relating to the official position of the church. Kung wala kang makita, now you know bakit hindi pinapansin ang thread na ito ng INS agent.Roman Catholic, please start to be reasonable, di porket tiga-INC ang nag-post di niyo na bibigyan ng pansin.
karumaldumal kayo.0 -
Is Jagon an INC or Protestant?0
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^Problem of inference, rooting from the fallacy of narratives
if I tell you where I belong, you will start to infer from where I come from instead of actually looking at head-on my arguments and reasoning.
That is why ElCid and the rest of his alter nicks are dead unaware how to attack me.0 -
^Problem of inference, rooting from the fallacy of narratives
if I tell you where I belong, you will start to infer from where I come from instead of actually looking at head-on my arguments and reasoning.
That is why ElCid and the rest of his alter nicks are dead unaware how to attack me.
Talaga? Sino mga alternicks ni ElCid?0 -
you better read his post and see if there are any articles relating to the official position of the church. Kung wala kang makita, now you know bakit hindi pinapansin ang thread na ito ng INS agent.
I am starting to believe that you Roman Catholics and INC are no different at all.
when INCs cannot answer a hard question they will tell you that their ministers are the only one who can argue with you
much like Roman Catholics, they will throw you "official position" of the church just to relieve themselves of answering a question.
it's really simple to summarize the problem, subject palang ng thread may idea ka na sa tinutumbok.
before 1890's the pope was NOT infallible, past that the pope suddenly became infallible.0 -
I am starting to believe that you Roman Catholics and INC are no different at all.
when INCs cannot answer a hard question they will tell you that their ministers are the only one who can argue with you
much like Roman Catholics, they will throw you "official position" of the church just to relieve themselves of answering a question.
it's really simple to summarize the problem, subject palang ng thread may idea ka na sa tinutumbok.
before 1890's the pope was NOT infallible, past that the pope suddenly became infallible.
Anak ng baka! Lalaki pala tong si Jagon, nakita ko sa "about me" sa profile niya.. Babae ang avatar??? Jokla nga ba siya??
Basic Information
Date of Birth:January 3, 1979 (36) .
About Jagon
Custom Location:I'm jst messin w/u
Gender:MaleCivil
Status:Single0 -
^o kitams, again, problem of inference.
di pa ba obvious na lalake ako na may [email protected] na pantus0k sa mga sorry *****$es niyong mga baklings0 -
you mean bakla ka Jagon?0
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