Was peter the “rock” where jesus built his church?

esnuera

The RC Zealots favorite Bible verse to disprove the Catholic Church as the apostatized church is:

“And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.” (Matthew 16:18 NKJV)

Let us study this verse and see if the Catholics have the correct understanding, and if indeed their claim is true.

WAS PETER THE “ROCK” WHERE JESUS BUILT HIS CHURCH?

THE “APOSTOLIC SUCCESSION” is the primary basis of the Roman Catholic Church in claiming that they are the one true Church the Lord Jesus Christ built. They claim that their pope is the successor of Apostle Peter. The Roman Catholic Church teaches that Peter was the “rock” where Christ built His Church:

“Christ used Peter for the rock foundation of His Church. The Catholic Church still rests on that same foundation.” (Conway, J.D. What They Ask About The Church, p. 11)

Thus, their argument goes, “The Roman Catholic pope is the successor of Apostle Peter who was the rock where Jesus built His Church. So, the Roman Catholic Church is the one true Church built by the Lord Jesus Christ.” The Roman Catholic Church further claims that Matthew 16:18 proves that Apostle Peter was the “rock” where Jesus built His Church. Matthew 16:18 reads:

“And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.” (Matthew 16:18 NKJV)

However, a careful study of Matthew 16:18 and the teachings written in the Bible, clearly shows that Apostle Peter was not the rock where the one true Church was built.

WHAT IS “PETER” IN GREEK?

The English word “Peter” was derived from a Greek word which is equivalent of the Aramaic word “Kefas” (rendered “Cephas” in English). This was the name given to Simon, brother of Andrew, by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. John 1:42 in New International Version reads:

“And he brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him and said, ‘You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas’ (which, when translated, is Peter).” (John 1:42 NIV)

The name “Cephas” is Aramaic, while the name “Peter” is English. What is the equivalent of this name in Greek? Let us see the Greek text of John 1:42:

“‎‎egagen autón prós tón Iesoún. emblépsas auto ho Iesoús eípen: sú eí Símœn ho huiós Ioánnou, sú klethese Kefás, hó hermeneúetai Pétros.” (John 1:42 NA27, transliterated)

Take note that the Greek equivalent of the Aramaic word “Cephas” given by the New Testament itself is “Pétros.” Thus, the English word “Peter” was derived from the Greek word “Pétros.”

THE “ROCK” MENTIONED IN MATTHEW 16:18

The Lord Jesus Christ explicitly said in Matthew 16:18, “upon this rock I will build My Church.” The Roman Catholic Church claims that the “rock” where the Church was built was Peter. However, what is the equivalent of the word “rock” mentioned by the Lord Jesus Christ where He built His Church? The Greek text of Matthew 16:18 reads:

“‎kago dé soi légœ hóti sú eí Pétros, kaí epí taúte te pétra oikodomeso mou ten ekklesían kaí púlai hádou ou katischúsousin autes.” (Matthew 16:18 NA27, transliterated)

This was rendered in English as:

“And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.” (Matthew 16:18 NIV)

The English “And I tell you that you are Peter” is “kago dé soi légœ hóti sú eí Pétros” in Greek. Clearly, even the Greek text of Matthew 16:18 testified that the English name “Peter” was “Pétros” in Greek.

Now, take note that the English “on this rock I will build my church” is “kaí epí taúte te pétra oikodomeso mou ten ekklesían” in Greek. Thus, the word “rock” (where the Lord Jesus built His Church) is “pétra” in Greek. It is clear in the Greek text of Matthew 16:18 that the name “Peter” is “Pétros” in Greek, and the word “rock” is “pétra” in Greek.

“PETROS” AND “PETRA” ARE TWO DIFFERENT WORDS WITH DIFFERENT MEANINGS

Why did we say that these two words (“Pétros” and “pétra”) are two different words? Zodhiates' Complete Word Study Dictionary New Testament explains:

“Distinguished from the masculine petros is that petra is a mass of rock while petros is a detached stone or boulder, a stone that might be thrown or easily moved.”

Truly, the Greek words “Petros” and “petra” are two different words. “Pétros” is “a detached stone or boulder, a stone that might be thrown or easily moved.” While “pétra” is “a mass of rock.”

PETER IS “PETROS,” THUS HE IS NOT THE ROCK (“PETRA”) WHERE CHRIST BUILT HIS CHURCH

“Petros” is masculine and “petra is feminine. “Petros” means “a detached stone of boulder, a stone that might be thrown or easily moved.” While, “petra” means “a mass of rock.” Thus, Matthew 16:18 only means:

“And I tell you that you are “Petros” (“a detached stone of boulder, a stone that might be thrown or easily moved”), and on this “petra” (“a mass of rock”) I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.”

In light of these facts, surely, when the Lord Jesus Christ said “on this ROCK (“petra”) I will build My Church,” He is not referring to Peter (“Petros”).

THE “ROCK” WHERE THE CHURCH WAS BUILT IS THE LORD JESUS CHRIST

Apostle Paul explicitly declared that the Lord Jesus Christ is the “chief cornerstone”:

“Having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone.” (Ephesians 2:20 NKJV)

According to Apostle Peter himself, who is the “rock” upon the Church was built? This is what Apostle Peter teaches in Acts 4:10 and 12:

“Let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. This is the 'stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.'” (Acts 4:10-11 NKJV)

Apostle Peter testified that the Lord Jesus Christ is the “chief cornerstone.” He also said, “...Jesus Christ of Nazareth...This is the stone...”

Thus, it is very clear that Apostle Paul and Apostle Peter testified that the Lord Jesus Christ is the rock or the chief cornerstone where the Church was built.

PETER HIMSELF USED THE WORD “PETRA’ TO REFER TO JESUS

Apostle Peter himself used the word “rock” referring to the Lord Jesus Christ:

“Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture, ‘Behold, I lay in Zion A chief cornerstone, elect, precious, And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.’ Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient, ‘The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone,’ and ‘A stone of stumbling And a rock of offense.’ They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.” (I Peter 2:4-8 NKJV)

In the Greek text of I Peter 2:8, it is clear that Apostle Peter used the word “petra”:

“kaí líthos proskómmatos kaí pétra skandálou: hoí proskóptousin to lógo apeithoúntes eis hó kaí etéthesan.” (I Peter 2:8 NA37 Transliterated)

Remember that the word “rock” mentioned by Apostle Peter in I Peter 2:8 was referring to the Lord Jesus Christ. Thus, Apostle Peter used the word “pétra” referring to the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Lord Jesus Christ used the word “pétra” in Matthew 16:18 referring to the “rock” where He built His Church. He said, “on this rock (“petra”) I will build My church.” Apostle Peter used the word “petra” in I Peter 2:8 referring to the Lord Jesus Christ. In light of these facts, thus, when the Lord Jesus Christ said “on this ROCK (“petra”) I will build My Church,” He is referring to Himself.

CONCLUSION

The one true Church was built on Christ. He Himself is the “rock” where the true Church Of Christ was built. The doctrine that Apostle Peter was the “rock” where the Church was built was indeed an erroneous doctrine because Peter himself testified that the Lord Jesus Christ is the “rock” where the Church was built.

Thus, we can conclude that the Roman Catholic Church is built upon an erroneous doctrine.

esnuera

The Catholic defenders said that “saying apostasy took place in the first century Church Of Christ opposed what the Lord Jesus Christ said in Matthew 16:18.” They even accused those who teach that apostasy took place on the first century Church Of Christ of making the Lord Jesus a liar because according to them that Lord Jesus said that apostasy will not take place based on what He said in Matthew 16:18. Let us see what the Lord Jesus Christ really said in Matthew 16:18:

“And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.” (Matthew 16:18 NIV)

Nothing in this verse that the Lord Jesus says “apostasy will not take place on the first century Church Of Christ.” This is only their interpretation on what the Lord Jesus Christ said that “…the gates of Hades will not overcome it (the Church the Lord Jesus Christ built).” Let the Bible explain what it meant. In Revised Standard Version, this is how it renders Matthew 16:18:

“And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.” (Matthew 16:18 RSV)

This is not our own interpretation. What the Matthew 16:18 says, “…the gates of Hades will not overcome it” is explained by another version of the Bible. It says, “the powers of death shall not prevail against it.” Why the Lord Jesus Christ says that “the powers of death shall not prevail against His Church”? Apostle Paul explains this in I Thessalonians 4:16:

“For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.” (I Thessalonians 4:16 NIV)

Those referred to by Apostle Paul when he said “in Christ” are the members of the Church Of Christ. Apostle Paul called them “in Christ,” Jesus called them “My Church.” Jesus said, “the powers of death shall not prevail against it,” and Apostle Paul said, “the dead in Christ will rise first.”

These words of the Lord Jesus Christ saying “…the gates of Hades will not overcome the Church” will never meant that the Church will not be apostatized because the Lord Jesus Christ will not contradict His own words. What the Lord Jesus Christ said was “At that time MANY WILL TURN AWAY FROM THE FAITH.” What the Lord Jesus Christ did not say and will not say is that the Church will not be apostatized.

Thus, it’s a biblical fact that apostasy took place in the first century Church Of Christ.

skye_phoenix

Shungek, hindi naman po yung "Rock" kundi yung "the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it."!

Get it!?

esnuera

skye_phoenix wrote: »

Shungek, hindi naman po yung "Rock" kundi yung "the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it."!

Get it!?

Comic comments Did you get or understand the message of Matthew 16:18?

Sa tamang pagkakaunawa pa lang sa Matthew 16:18 eh malalaman na kaagad na kayo nga ang katuparan ng pagkatalikod sa unang Iglesia.

Ferdinand

First, you should study the concept of the "gates of hell" in Jewish tradition before spouting your MODERN interpretation of that concept. Second you should also get study WHERE Jesus get the concept of the "kingdom of God", or "kingdom of Heaven", "keys of the kingdom", and the concept of the "eben shetiyah". Also the question you should be asking is why is it that MOST respected Bible scholars both Jews, Protestants, and Catholics AGREE that Peter is the 'rock of Matthew 16:18?

alchemistofophir

Bible Fact is that Jesus was talking to Simon Peter/Cephas and that trumps your faulty analysis.

esnuera

Ferdinand wrote: »

First, you should study the concept of the "gates of hell" in Jewish tradition before spouting your MODERN interpretation of that concept. Second you should also get study WHERE Jesus get the concept of the "kingdom of God", or "kingdom of Heaven", "keys of the kingdom", and the concept of the "eben shetiyah". Also the question you should be asking is why is it that MOST respected Bible scholars both Jews, Protestants, and Catholics AGREE that Peter is the 'rock of Matthew 16:18?

Napaka klaro na nga ng itinuro sa BIBLIYA, si Apostle Peter pa mismo nagsabi sa Ephesians 2:20 na si Jesus ang chief cornerstone,. the

“Having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone.” (Ephesians 2:20 NKJV)

According to Apostle Peter himself, who is the “rock” upon the Church was built? This is what Apostle Peter teaches in Acts 4:10 and 12:

“Let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. This is the 'stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.'” (Acts 4:10-11 NKJV)

Tsambahan na nga sablay pa!..

Ferdinand

esnuera wrote: »

Napaka klaro na nga ng itinuro sa BIBLIYA, si Apostle Peter pa mismo nagsabi sa Ephesians 2:20 na si Jesus ang chief cornerstone,. the

“Having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone.” (Ephesians 2:20 NKJV)

According to Apostle Peter himself, who is the “rock” upon the Church was built? This is what Apostle Peter teaches in Acts 4:10 and 12:

“Let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. This is the 'stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.'” (Acts 4:10-11 NKJV)

Tsambahan na nga sablay pa!..

Hindi naman kasi uso sa aming katoliko ang paghahalo halo ng metaphors para palabasin ang isang kathang kahulugan lamang. Marunong kasi kami na kuhanin ang konteksto ng isang bible passage, at alam namin sa biblical hermeneutics na HINDI DAPAT PINAGHAHALO ANG IBAT IBANG METAPHORS NA IBA-IBA ANG KAHULUGAN. Kaya nga ang mga modern protestant scholars ngayon ay sang-ayon na sa interpretation ng Catholic scholars tungkol sa Matthew 16:18-19, dahil alam na nila ngayon na dapat basahin din nila ang background ng passage na iyon, imbes na gamitin ang modern interpretation nila na hindi naman sang-ayon sa bibilical hermeneutics. Kasi kung iisipin ninyong mga INC members, pinagpipilitan ninyo na ang bato sa Matthew 16:18 ay si Jesus dahil malaking bato ang pinag-uusapan, tapos si Pedro ay maliit na bato lang, di ba? Oo o hindi?

Pero yang ganyang klaseng interpretation do not do justice to the text especially when compared to the bible passages you used.

Kung nalalaman mo ang back ground na mga salitang ginamit na Panginoon diyan, bakit hindi mo ibigay sa amin at tignan natin kung sang-ayon iyan sa paniniwala ng mga Hudyo noon. Give us the OT and Jewish tradition background of these terms

1. Keys of the kingdom

2. Kingdom of God or kingdom of heaven

3. Binding and loosing

4. The Jewish expectation of the messiah and the new exodus

5. Signs of the new exodus and that Jesus is the messiah Jews were waiting for

6. Church

7. Rock

8. Eben shetiyah

Kung hindi ka agree na merong Old Testament background iyang mga terms na iyan at merong Jewish tradition yang mga terms na iyan, sabihin mo sa amin kung saan HINUGOT ng Panginoon ang mga salita na iyan. Inimbento lang ba iyan ng Panginoon?

TLG

esnuera wrote: »

Napaka klaro na nga ng itinuro sa BIBLIYA, si Apostle Peter pa mismo nagsabi sa Ephesians 2:20 na si Jesus ang chief cornerstone,. the

Ang linaw nga eh.."you are peter and on this rock i will build my church"...what is the purpose of saying "you are peter" kung wala naman palang kuneksyon si pedro sa iglesiang itatag ni kristo? Bobo talaga ng pekeng sugo mo!


What is the foundation of the church? It is the belief profess by Peter himself that was only revealed to him by God.


Mateo 16:15-17Ang Salita ng Diyos (SND)
15 Sinabi niya sa kanila: Ngunit ayon sa inyo sino ako?
16 Sumagot si Simon Pedro: Ikaw ang Mesiyas, ang Anak ng Diyos na buhay.
17 Sinabi ni Jesus sa kaniya: Pinagpala ka, Simon na anak ni Jonas sapagkat hindi ito ipinahayag sa iyo ng laman at dugo kundi ng aking Ama na nasa langit.

Yung pananampalataya ni Pedro, yun ang magiging pundasyon at lakas ng buong iglesia

Lucas 22:31-32Ang Salita ng Diyos (SND)
31 Sinabi ng Panginoon: Simon, Simon, narito, ikaw ay hinihingi ni Satanas sa akin upang salain tulad ng trigo. 32 Ngunit ipinanalangin na kita upang huwag manghina ang iyong pananampalataya. Kapag ikaw ay nagbalik, palakasin mo ang iyong mga kapatid.


Kay pedro iniwan ang susi ng kaharian ng langit, kay pedro pinagkatiwala ang mga tupa, si pedro magsisilbing lakas ng mga kapatid niya...nakakapagtaka na kayong mga brainwashed eh hindi nyo makita importansiya ni pedro pero paniwalang paniwala kayo sa importansiya ng pekeng sugo nyo!

markie11

Supalpal si ts. Tahaha

JaRvis_Jayren

Ferdinand wrote: »

First, you should study the concept of the "gates of hell" in Jewish tradition before spouting your MODERN interpretation of that concept. Second you should also get study WHERE Jesus get the concept of the "kingdom of God", or "kingdom of Heaven", "keys of the kingdom", and the concept of the "eben shetiyah". Also the question you should be asking is why is it that MOST respected Bible scholars both Jews, Protestants, and Catholics AGREE that Peter is the 'rock of Matthew 16:18?

I'm afraid people like this fellow here is IN NO POSITION to speak of Jewish tradition. WHY NOT? Jewish tradition recognize Christ as man and not God. Ferdinand is a Trinitarian, so I hope the few HONEST PEOPLE here in this forum DO NOT MISS THIS POINT.

The point is Jesus is the rock on which His church is established. Catholics will insist that it was Peter who took over the church, but if one really reads the bible, James' authority over the church is superior to that of Peter's, Paul even scolded Peter, among other points that prove the RCC's claims false.

JaRvis_Jayren

TLG wrote: »

Ang linaw nga eh.."you are peter and on this rock i will build my church"...what is the purpose of saying "you are peter" kung wala naman palang kuneksyon si pedro sa iglesiang itatag ni kristo?

After a number of years, this fellow here still doesn't get it. "YOU" is in the second person, referring to Peter. Then Jesus said "on THIS rock..." Nasa second person ba yung "this rock...?"

I am so sorry to see this fellow still at it like this, flaunting how badly he misses a lot of good points in the defense of his beloved RCC.

alchemistofophir

JaRvis_Jayren wrote: »

After a number of years, this fellow here still doesn't get it. "YOU" is in the second person, referring to Peter. Then Jesus said "on THIS rock..." Nasa second person ba yung "this rock...?"

I am so sorry to see this fellow still at it like this, flaunting how badly he misses a lot of good points in the defense of his beloved RCC.

Ang ibig sabihin ng Peter ay rock. Your are Peter, and on this rock (refers to Peter).

JaRvis_Jayren

TLG wrote: »

Ang linaw nga eh.."you are peter and on this rock i will build my church"...what is the purpose of saying "you are peter" kung wala naman palang kuneksyon si pedro sa iglesiang itatag ni kristo?

After a number of years, this fellow here still doesn't get it. "YOU" is in the second person, referring to Peter. Then Jesus said "on THIS rock..." Nasa second person ba yung "this rock...?"

I am so sorry to see this fellow still at it like this, flaunting how badly he misses a lot of good points in the defense of his beloved RCC.

alchemistofophir wrote: »

Ang ibig sabihin ng Peter ay rock. Your are Peter, and on this rock (refers to Peter).

My friend, you obviously missed the point I raised. Basics lang, first, second and third person...

"YOU are Peter..." YOU is in the second person.

"on THIS rock..." do you think the word THIS is also referring to the second person?

As raised earlier in this thread, Apostle Peter himself refers to Jesus Christ as the chief cornerstone in Ephesians 2:20 NKJV. Are you going to say to Peter that he is wrong? "Mali ka, Apostol Pedro, ikaw ang bato at hindi si Cristo!"

Just be objective, it's not too hard to understand unless you refuse to.

alchemistofophir

JaRvis_Jayren wrote: »

My friend, you obviously missed the point I raised. Basics lang, first, second and third person...

"YOU are Peter..." YOU is in the second person.

"on THIS rock..." do you think the word THIS is also referring to the second person?

As raised earlier in this thread, Apostle Peter himself refers to Jesus Christ as the chief cornerstone in Ephesians 2:20 NKJV. Are you going to say to Peter that he is wrong? "Mali ka, Apostol Pedro, ikaw ang bato at hindi si Cristo!"

Just be objective, it's not too hard to understand unless you refuse to.

You are Peter (PETROS=ROCK) and on this rock (ON PETROS = PETER)

Don't overthink. The statement is easy to understand.

Tokay

Kung si Pedro ang Bato bakit manok ang dala niya hindi Bato?

ALEbangbang

Eto Tokay, 'rock' ipukpok mo sa ulo mo.

Jagon

Eben Shetiya is a weak basis to show the relevance of the papal office.

I have thoroughly explained that already in the other thread, just can't find that thread already.

TLG

JaRvis_Jayren wrote: »

After a number of years, this fellow here still doesn't get it. "YOU" is in the second person, referring to Peter. Then Jesus said "on THIS rock..." Nasa second person ba yung "this rock...?"

Like I said, it doesn't make sense for jesus to say "you are peter" if peter won't be an important part of the sentence.

Unlike INC, Jesus won't speak non-sense. Every word he said will always have a meaning, and "you are peter" definitely have a meaning on his succeeding words.

TLG

JaRvis_Jayren wrote: »

The point is Jesus is the rock on which His church is established. Catholics will insist that it was Peter who took over the church, but if one really reads the bible, James' authority over the church is superior to that of Peter's, Paul even scolded Peter, among other points that prove the RCC's claims false.

Jesus is the rock and so is peter... to better illustrate it, Jesus is the foundation of the church, while peter's faith on jesus is the foundation of strength of his brothers.

Lucas 22:31-32Ang Salita ng Diyos (SND)
31 Sinabi ng Panginoon: Simon, Simon, narito, ikaw ay hinihingi ni Satanas sa akin upang salain tulad ng trigo. 32 Ngunit ipinanalangin na kita upang huwag manghina ang iyong pananampalataya. Kapag ikaw ay nagbalik, palakasin mo ang iyong mga kapatid.

If peter was weak, the church whom jesus built will also crumble. The key of the kingdom of heaven was entrusted to peter for a reason. For this reason, peter and all his successors must remain strong for the sake of the brethren.

Tokay

TLG wrote: »

Jesus is the rock and so is peter... to better illustrate it, Jesus is the foundation of the church, while peter's faith on jesus is the foundation of strength of his brothers.

Lucas 22:31-32Ang Salita ng Diyos (SND)
31 Sinabi ng Panginoon: Simon, Simon, narito, ikaw ay hinihingi ni Satanas sa akin upang salain tulad ng trigo. 32 Ngunit ipinanalangin na kita upang huwag manghina ang iyong pananampalataya. Kapag ikaw ay nagbalik, palakasin mo ang iyong mga kapatid.

If peter was weak, the church whom jesus built will also crumble. The key of the kingdom of heaven was entrusted to peter for a reason. For this reason, peter and all his successors must remain strong for the sake of the brethren.

Galacia 2:14
14Nang makita kong ang kanilang ikinikilos ay hindi ayon sa tunay na diwa ng Magandang Balita, sinabi ko kay Pedro sa harap nilang lahat, "Kung ikaw na isang Judio ay namumuhay na parang Hentil at di bilang Judio, bakit mo ngayon pinipilit ang mga Hentil na mamuhay gaya ng mga Judio?"

Foundation of strength to his brothers ha