Infant Baptism..another RCC non biblical Doctrine!!
Roborat9
Member
itong ginagawang pagbabautismo sa mga baby ay isang lantarang violation sa BIBLE... jesus himself said that the children are free from sin and baptismal is a form of cleansing you of sins so what sins are being cleaned on babies??
the catholic that the reason for it is the ORIGINAL SIN committed by adam and eve...this is preposterous.If we will follow this logic it means that christ sacrifices is all for nothing.
the catholic that the reason for it is the ORIGINAL SIN committed by adam and eve...this is preposterous.If we will follow this logic it means that christ sacrifices is all for nothing.
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Comments
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Db bible-based ka...Bigay ka muna ng mga verses and then we'll start there..
Hahahaa ako dapat ang magbigay ng bible verse??? *** dapat mag defend niyan gawain ninyo iyan eh tapos ako ang pahahanapin mo tinatanong ko nga sa inyo saan ninyo sa bible na pulot iyan?? baby may kasalanan na? Di ba baptismal dahil malinis ang kasalanan ano ang kasalanan ng baby na ala pang isang buwan???0 -
I know you're inept but at least understand the fact that you can't prove a negative.
You have the burden of proof.
Paano naging unbiblical? The promise is for the believers and for their CHILDREN:
Acts 2:39
The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far offfor all whom the Lord our God will call.
Eh ano ba yung promise?
1 John 2:25
And this is what he promised useternal life.
So paano ba mamanahin at makakamit ang pangako ng buhay na walang hanggang? Sa pamamagitan ng pagbabautismo:
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. John 3
Dahil sa pananampalataya ng mga magulang, naisali ang mga anak sa pangako ng buhay na walang hanggan and therefore puede silang makibahagi sa mga sacramento tulad ng bautismo/binyag para makapagtamo ng kaligtasan.0 -
Paano naging unbiblical? The promise is for the believers and for their CHILDREN:
Acts 2:39
The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far offfor all whom the Lord our God will call.
Eh ano ba yung promise?
1 John 2:25
And this is what he promised useternal life.
So paano ba mamanahin at makakamit ang pangako ng buhay na walang hanggang? Sa pamamagitan ng pagbabautismo:
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. John 3
Dahil sa pananampalataya ng mga magulang, naisali ang mga anak sa pangako ng buhay na walang hanggan and therefore puede silang makibahagi sa mga sacramento tulad ng bautismo/binyag para makapagtamo ng kaligtasan.
is a baby a month old baby a man??? Again ano ang kasalanan ng baby para need ibaptize??
Matthew 19:13 Then people brought little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked them.
14 Jesus said, Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these. 15 When he had placed his hands on them, he went on from there.
Who invented the original sin that the RCC is preaching that they say babies have upon birth?? Saan nila nakuha iyan??0 -
May sinabi ba na karumal-dumal na krimen ang binyagan ang isang bata sa Bible o sa Church Tradition?
Wala bang kaluluwa ang bata?
Infant Baptism
Gen. 17:12, Lev. 12:3 - these texts show the circumcision of eight-day old babies as the way of entering into the Old Covenant - Col 2:11-12 - however, baptism is the new "circumcision" for all people of the New Covenant. Therefore, baptism is for babies as well as adults. God did not make His new Covenant narrower than the old Covenant. To the contrary, He made it wider, for both Jews and Gentiles, infants and adults.
Job 14:1-4 - man that is born of woman is full of trouble and unclean. Baptism is required for all human beings because of our sinful human nature.
Psalm 51:5 - we are conceived in the iniquity of sin. This shows the necessity of baptism from conception.
Matt. 18:2-5 - Jesus says unless we become like children, we cannot enter into heaven. So why would children be excluded from baptism?
Matt 19:14 - Jesus clearly says the kingdom of heaven also belongs to children. There is no age limit on entering the kingdom, and no age limit for being eligible for baptism.
Mark 10:14 - Jesus says to let the children come to Him for the kingdom of God also belongs to them. Jesus says nothing about being too young to come into the kingdom of God.
Mark 16:16 - Jesus says to the crowd, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved." But in reference to the same people, Jesus immediately follows with "He who does not believe will be condemned." This demonstrates that one can be baptized and still not be a believer. This disproves the Protestant argument that one must be a believer to be baptized. There is nothing in the Bible about a "believer's baptism."
Luke 18:15 Jesus says, Let the children come to me. The people brought infants to Jesus that he might touch them. This demonstrates that the receipt of grace is not dependent upon the age of reason.
Acts 2:38 - Peter says to the multitude, "Repent and be baptized.." Protestants use this verse to prove one must be a believer (not an infant) to be baptized. But the Greek translation literally says, "If you repent, then each one who is a part of you and yours must each be baptized (Metanoesate kai bapistheto hekastos hymon.) This, contrary to what Protestants argue, actually proves that babies are baptized based on their parents faith. This is confirmed in the next verse.
Acts 2:39 - Peter then says baptism is specifically given to children as well as adults. Those far off refers to those who were at their homes (primarily infants and children). God's covenant family includes children. The word "children" that Peter used comes from the Greek word "teknon" which also includes infants.
Luke 1:59 - this proves that "teknon" includes infants. Here, John as a "teknon" (infant) was circumcised. See also Acts 21:21 which uses teknon for eight-day old babies. So baptism is for infants as well as adults.
Acts 10:47-48 - Peter baptized the entire house of Cornelius, which generally included infants and young children. There is not one word in Scripture about baptism being limited to adults.
Acts 16:15 - Paul baptized Lydia and her entire household. The word "household" comes from the Greek word "oikos" which is a household that includes infants and children.
Acts 16:15 - further, Paul baptizes the household based on Lydia's faith, not the faith of the members of the household. This demonstrates that parents can present their children for baptism based on the parents' faith, not the children's faith.
Acts 16:30-33 - it was only the adults who were candidates for baptism that had to profess a belief in Jesus. This is consistent with the Church's practice of instructing catechumens before baptism. But this verse does not support a "believer's baptism" requirement for everyone. See Acts 16:15,33. The earlier one comes to baptism, the better. For those who come to baptism as adults, the Church has always required them to profess their belief in Christ. For babies who come to baptism, the Church has always required the parents to profess the belief in Christ on behalf of the baby. But there is nothing in the Scriptures about a requirement for ALL baptism candidates to profess their own belief in Christ (because the Church has baptized babies for 2,000 years).
Acts 16:33 - Paul baptized the jailer (an adult) and his entire household (which had to include children). Baptism is never limited to adults and those of the age of reason. See also Luke 19:9; John 4:53; Acts 11:14; 1 Cor. 1:16; and 1 Tim. 3:12; Gen. 31:41; 36:6; 41:51; Joshua 24:15; 2 Sam. 7:11, 1 Chron. 10:6 which shows oikos generally includes children.
Rom. 5:12 - sin came through Adam and death through sin. Babies' souls are affected by Adam's sin and need baptism just like adult souls.
Rom. 5:15 - the grace of Jesus Christ surpasses that of the Old Covenant. So children can also enter the new Covenant in baptism. From a Jewish perspective, it would have been unthinkable to exclude infants and children from God's Covenant kingdom.
1 Cor. 1:16 - Paul baptized the household ("oikos") of Stephanus. Baptism is not limited to adults.
Eph. 1:1; Col. 1:2 - Paul addresses the "saints" of the Church, and these include the children he addresses in Eph. 6:1 and Col. 3:20. Children become saints of the Church only through baptism.
Eph. 2:3 - we are all by nature children of wrath, in sin, like all mankind. Infants are no exception. See also Psalm 51:5 and Job 14:1-4 which teach us we are conceived in sin and born unclean.
2 Thess. 3:10 - if anyone does not work let him not eat. But this implies that those who are unable to work should still be able to eat. Babies should not starve because they are unable to work, and should also not be denied baptism because they are unable to make a declaration of faith.
Matt. 9:2; Mark 2:3-5 - the faith of those who brought in the paralytic cured the paralytic's sins. This is an example of the forgiveness of sins based on another's faith, just like infant baptism. The infant child is forgiven of sin based on the parents' faith.
Matt. 8:5-13 - the servant is healed based upon the centurion's faith. This is another example of healing based on another's faith. If Jesus can heal us based on someone elses faith, then He can baptize us based on someone elses faith as well.
Mark 9:22-25 - Jesus exercises the child's unclean spirit based on the father's faith. This healing is again based on another's faith.
1 Cor. 7:14 Paul says that children are sanctified by God through the belief of only one of their parents.
Exodus 12:24-28 - the Passover was based on the parent's faith. If they did not kill and eat the lamb, their first-born child died.
Joshua 5:2-7 - God punished Israel because the people had not circumcised their children. This was based on the parent's faith. The parents play a critical role in their child's salvation.
For Christ also said, 'Except ye be born again, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.' Now, that it is impossible for those who have once been born to enter into their mothers' wombs, is manifest to all. And how those who have sinned and repent shall escape their sins, is declared by Esaias the prophet, as I wrote above; he thus speaks: 'Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from your souls; learn to do well And though your sins be as scarlet, I will make them white like wool; and though they be as crimson, I will make them white as snow...And for this [rite] we have learned from the apostles this reason. Since at our birth we were born without our own knowledge or choice, by our parents coming together, and were brought up in bad habits and wicked training; in order that we may not remain the children of necessity and of ignorance, but may become the children of choice and knowledge, and may obtain in the water the remission of sins formerly committed, there is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins, the name of God the Father and Lord of the universe; he who leads to the layer the person that is to be washed calling him by this name alone And this washing is called illumination, because they who learn these things are illuminated in their understandings. And in the name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and in the name of the Holy Ghost, who through the prophets foretold all things about Jesus, he who is illuminated is washed." Justin Martyr, First Apology, 61 (A.D. 110-165).0 -
is a baby a month old baby a man??? Again ano ang kasalanan ng baby para need ibaptize??
Matthew 19:13 Then people brought little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked them.
14 Jesus said, Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these. 15 When he had placed his hands on them, he went on from there.
Who invented the original sin that the RCC is preaching that they say babies have upon birth?? Saan nila nakuha iyan??
Tumututol ka na naman kase sa mga bagay na di mo alam. Ilatag mo muna yung doctrina na tinututulan mo hindi yang nagngangangawa ka na naman sa hangin lols. Punta ka sa catechism because I'm not going to do it for you. Saka ano problema mo na minana natin ang epekto ng kasalanan ni Adan at Eba? The mere fact na maski ministro niyo namamatay ibig sabihin lang totoong lahat ng tao nagmana ng epekto ng original sin: na ang tao natutukso at namamatay
1 Corinthians 15:22English Standard Version (ESV)
22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.0 -
mukhang hindi malinaw sa mga ito...what is the biblical basis of it?? is it so hard to comprehend???Ano ang kasalanan ng bata para ibaptize?? you guys know what is the purpose of baptismal di ba so ano ang kasalanan ng baby??
Catechism?? is that catechism biblical in nature or something that is just concocted by your church??
napakasimple ng tanong ko very basic whats so hard about it?0 -
The children according to the verse you actually posted are exempted in baptismal. if you will read it properly you should become like little children. Is there any mentioned on all those verses you posted that children or babies should be baptize??? That is why christ is making children as an example cause children does not sin only when they come to the age of reason that they can determine bad and good willl they be needed to be baptize.Alaskador11 wrote: »
Matt. 18:2-5 - Jesus says unless we become like children, we cannot enter into heaven. So why would children be excluded from baptism?
Matt 19:14 - Jesus clearly says the kingdom of heaven also belongs to children. There is no age limit on entering the kingdom, and no age limit for being eligible for baptism.
Mark 10:14 - Jesus says to let the children come to Him for the kingdom of God also belongs to them. Jesus says nothing about being too young to come into the kingdom of God.
What age was christ baptize??
Please dont screw up the verses just to suit your argument. Dont bend its true meaning.0 -
mukhang hindi malinaw sa mga ito...what is the biblical basis of it?? is it so hard to comprehend???Ano ang kasalanan ng bata para ibaptize?? you guys know what is the purpose of baptismal di ba so ano ang kasalanan ng baby??
Catechism?? is that catechism biblical in nature or something that is just concocted by your church??
napakasimple ng tanong ko very basic whats so hard about it?
Hindi naman kase hard yung tanong mo yung inutil mo lang na pagkakaunawa sa doctrina. Hindi actual/personal sin ang hinuhugasan ng bautismo sa isang sanggol kungdi original sin. Eh ano naman yung original sin? Dahil sa kasalanan ni Adan ang tao namamatay - may angal ka? lols. Dahil sa kasalanan at pagsuway ni Adan ang tao naging mahina at natutukso - may angal ka? Wala. At tayo naging makasalanan na din dahil sa ginawa ni Adan:
Romans 5:19International Standard Version (ISV)
19 For just as through one mans disobedience many people were made sinners, so also through one mans obedience many people will be made righteous.
So dahil sa isang tao - ang marami o lahat naging makasalanan na din claro sa biblia. At dahil sa bautismo inaalis nito ang epekto ng orihinal na kasalanan at ang tao nagiging dapat na tigapagmana ng buhay na walang hanggan.0 -
Hahahaa ako dapat ang magbigay ng bible verse??? *** dapat mag defend niyan gawain ninyo iyan eh tapos ako ang pahahanapin mo tinatanong ko nga sa inyo saan ninyo sa bible na pulot iyan?? baby may kasalanan na? Di ba baptismal dahil malinis ang kasalanan ano ang kasalanan ng baby na ala pang isang buwan???I know you're inept but at least understand the fact that you can't prove a negative.
You have the burden of proof.
Pareho pala kayong shungaks eh, si boborat alam ko bobo talaga pero pati ba naman ikaw moriadne??? Sabi ko pakita si boborat ng verse kasi eto sabi niya " jesus himself said that the children are free from sin"
He should start from the premise by showing bible verses.0 -
Already did still no answer..a decent and biblical answer...please spare me the innuendos you guys are just putting yourselves to shame
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So bilis sagot ano ang kasalanan ng isang buwan bata para siya ay bautismohan?? sinong apostle and nag baptize ng baby? Is the BABY capable of sin?
SIN!!! In Abrahamic contexts, sin is the act of violating God's will so please tell me what sin has the baby committed that it has to be baptized?? bakit hindi ibaptize pag may capability na siya to think??0 -
Nasa roma 5:12 nga ang sagot boplaks!So bilis sagot ano ang kasalanan ng isang buwan bata para siya ay bautismohan??
Sa bibliya buong household binabautismuhan ng nga mga apostols...alam mo ba meaning ng household? Matatanda lang ba ang kasama sa household?sinong apostle and nag baptize ng baby?
sabi ni Jesus baptize all nation, meaning lahat hindi niya sinabing baptize "grown men & women only"
They are being baptized by virtue of the sin mentioned in romans 5:12Is the BABY capable of sin?SIN!!! In Abrahamic contexts, sin is the act of violating God's will[/B
Bobo ka talaga, sinning is not only exclusive to acts.... sa panahon nga ni Jesus hindi lang act ang dahilan ng pagkakasala mo.. pati masamang pag-iisip din!
Pero that is not the case sa mga babies... ang binabautismuhan sa kanila yung sin na nakalagay sa roma 5:120 -
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Where does it say about a baby?? Household??? So may kasalanan ang baby pagkapanganak pa lang??? Anong violation against gods will nagawa ng isang buwang bata?? is a BABY a man/men?? So household ang binabautismohan..
Baptize all nation I agree pero hindi ba pwedeng mag antay ang baptismal ninyo na magkaisip ang bata?? bakit si christ na baptize when he was 30??0 -
Kawawa ka naman spoon feeding na nga ginawa sayo nahihirapan ka pa ding maunawaan? Sana sinagot mo mga tanong ko para naliwanagan ka man lang gamit ang utak mo!Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Where does it say about a baby?? Household??? So may kasalanan ang baby pagkapanganak pa lang??? Anong violation against gods will nagawa ng isang buwang bata?? is a BABY a man/men?? So household ang binabautismohan..
Hindi ba kasali mga baby sa household?
Uulitin ko, may instruction ba si Jesus na mga 'grown men and women" lang ang dapat i-baptize or ang sabi batize all nation meaning lahat regardless of age?
(atin-atin lang ito.... hindi mo naunawaan yung romans 5:12 ano?
)
Baptize all nation I agree pero hindi ba pwedeng mag antay ang baptismal ninyo na magkaisip ang bata?? bakit si christ na baptize when he was 30??
What is circumsion for the jews... i research mo yan! Si Jesus baby ba ng ma-circumcise?
Eh ano ang new covenant equivalent ng circumcision? Ikaw na mag-research para gumana utak mo... masyado nang napupurol eh!
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Oh sheesshhh I get it now.....So ibaptize ninyo ang baby na ala pang kasalanan then pag lumaki na eh di deretso siya sa master ninyo kasi hindi siya nabautismuhan nung nagkaisip na siya at nalaman ang mali sa tama!!!! RREALLY CLEAVER SERPENT!!!! BRAVO!!!!
Hirap talaga kausap ang bopol...eh Bat si Cristo wala naman kasalanan nagpabautismo....0 -
hmmnnn TLG spoon feeding??? wasnt I the one that lambast you and drag you to the ground on our debate with that POPE kidnapper issue???? ill just have to rub that to you :
So in short ala kayong biblical basis about baptismal for the babies??? napakasimple lang naman...lets not go the extra mile here...its a very simple question really..is there a biblical proof about babies to be baptize??0 -
hmmnnn TLG spoon feeding??? wasnt I the one that lambast you and drag you to the ground on our debate with that POPE kidnapper issue???? ill just have to rub that to you
You wished Your links betrayed you there dude... and dun naman sa ibang thread like inc flag etc..... hindi kana nagpost!
After we explained by giving verses and asking you questions that will enlighten you, and yet you chose not to answer them and will just reply "in short ala kayong biblical basis", it really shows you are not capable of using your brain!So in short ala kayong biblical basis about baptismal for the babies??? napakasimple lang naman...lets not go the extra mile here...its a very simple question really..is there a biblical proof about babies to be baptize??
Further explanation will just be a waste of time.0
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