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The REAL Trinity/Triunity of God

JagonJagon Don't listen to me PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
For centuries christians have debated and argued about God concerning His being, one of the popular ones is the subject concerning the "Trinity".

mainstream christianity have believed in a trinity doctrine that i'm sorry to say short-sighted if not flawed.

The popular argument of the Trinity doctrine is:

"God is One in essence and Three in person, the Father, the Son and the Spirit. That each person is separate from each. The Father is SEPARATE from the Son, and the Spirit, and the Son is separate from the Spirit."

Sadly, this borders to Tritheism. It is NOT tritheism, but it is almost tritheism, ergo it is thus short-sighted.


Before we go through the points below, we should first agree that whatever the Bible say, we should just say YES and accept that it is VALID, no matter what. Second, we should accept the truth that even if what the Bible say is contradictory, we still have to say YES on the seeming contradictions and understand that they are not supposed to be contradictory, but only mysteriously revealed.

There are many points concerning this topic, but I will specifically address the flaws of the traditional mainstream "trinity Doctrine", which Theatheist have prompted me to engage.


1.) It should be realized that the Bible showed us that God is a God who is One AND Three

NOT "Three IN One"
NOT "Three OF One"
and absolutely NOT "Three and then One"

He is Three AND One.


God is ONE

Deut. 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD

1 Cor. 8:4 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world and that there is no God but one.


He is more than ONE (plural).

Genesis 1:26, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness”

He is THREE

Matthew 28:19, where the Lord Jesus charged the eleven apostles to disciple and baptize the nations “into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”


If we are asked if God is only ONE, we must say YES because that is what the Bible says
If we are asked if God is THREE, we must say YES because that is what the Bible says

The problem comes when we are confronted with the question "How is it then possible? How can something be ONE and also THREE? this is contradictory!, this defies reason in great proportions!"

christians at this point becomes swayed by the devil, they then add some more things in the equation just to satisfy reason and logic, and because of this, heresies are made. and the Trinity doctrine is made.

Here are examples of heresies:
a.) Modalism

This is a belief that God expressed Himself in modes, or faces, to better answer the "devil's question" above, in order to explain logically why the Bible shows God is Three and God is One, Modalism suggests that perhaps God is shown Three in expressions and in three modes, first He is Father, and then for 33 1/2 years, He is Son, and then after His resurrection until now, He is Spirit until forever. So in Eternity Past, there was only the Father "mode", and in the eternity future, there is only the Spirit "mode", the Son? well He is not really eternal as God the Son, He needs to transform into the Spirit "mode" first.

examples of denominations who based their belief in modalism are Oneness Pentecostals

b.) Tritheism - carms definition: Tritheism is the teaching that the Godhead is really three "separate" beings forming three separate gods

Not many christian denomination believes in Tritheism, but most trinitarians has the concept of tritheism even if they say that they believe in a Triune God. Objectively we may say that they believe in the trinity, but practically what they believe in is Three Gods. Most trinitarians are only trinitarians by definition and not by practice.

examples of a tritheistic denomination are the Mormons.


c.) Traditional Trinity doctrine
Why did I earlier stressed my accusations on trinitarians of being tritheistic?
if Carm states that tritheism is the teaching that the
"Godhead is really three "separate" beings forming three separate gods",
mainstream christianity teaches the Trinity as that the
"Godhead is really three "separate" beings forming three "separate" PERSONS",


see the similarity?


If we imagine the three teachings in a graph, putting Modalism in the extreme left, and Tritheism in the extreme right, and the REAL teaching in the Bible concerning the Triune God smacked in the middle, we can say that Trinitarians are near the thin line on the right separating what is True Triune God teaching and Tritheism teaching.

Why do I say that trinitarians are practically not trinitarians?
mainstream christianity believes that the Father is distinct and separate from the Son, and distinct and separate from the Spirit. It teaches us that when the Spirit comes to us, the Father, who is another person, is left in the heavens, together with the Son, another person.

mainstream christianity teaches us that The person of the Father sent His Son, another separate person, to accomplish redemption.

When believers pray, they are taught to bow before the Father and pray in the name of the Son. To split the Godhead into these separate Persons is not the revelation of the Bible, but the doctrine of the Nicene Creed.


2.) Coinherence.

We must also see the relevance of coinherence

John 14
10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak from Myself, but the Father who abides in Me does His works.

11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; but if not, believe because of the works themselves.


John 17
21 That they all may be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us; that the world may believe that You have sent Me.

23 I in them, and You in Me, that they may be perfected into one, that the world may know that You have sent Me and have loved them even as You have loved Me.


These verses shows that where the Son is the Father is. That the Three mutually exist and indwell in each other, this shows that the Three are INSEPARABLE.


3.) INSEPARABLE
The Father and the Son are inseparable
John 8:29
And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him.

The Father and the Spirit are inseparable
Matt. 10:20
For you are not the ones speaking, but the Spirit of your Father is the One speaking in you.

John 15:26
But when the Comforter comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of reality, who proceeds from (-with) the Father, He will testify concerning Me;


The Son and the Spirit are inseparable.

John 14
16 And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may be with you forever,

18 I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you.


1 Cor. 15:45
the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit.



4.) are they distinct?

Some trinitarians will say that they believe that the Three are inseparable, that they are only separate in distinction.

Tell me if these verses speaks that the 3 are distinct?

John 10:30
I and the Father are one.

2.Cor. 3:17
And the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

It is funny I mentioned that many trinitarians are just by definition trinitarian, perhaps their belief are flawed because the definition of their doctrine is simply flawed.


God is One and God is Three.
This is the REAL Trinity teaching in the Bible.

The Father and the Son and the Spirit are ONE person, they even have ONE NAME (Matt. 28:19)
The person of the Son IS the person of the Father (Isa. 9:6)
The person of the Spirit IS the person of the Son (Acts 20:28)

God is NOT One God AND Three Person
God is One Person AND Three Person.
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Comments

  • BetloginsBetlogins Member PExer
    Yan ang tunay na kalokohan ukol sa trinidad AKA Trimurty.
  • alchemistofophiralchemistofophir Christian Communist PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    Trinity has a biological basis.

    You need 2 (mother and father) to make 1 (child). All are three.

    The Gnostic Godhead is based on this. Gnostics believe in Trinity and worded it as the Father, the Mother (Holy Spirit/Sophia) and the Child (the Son Jesus).

    That's the Hierarchy of Life. Without three, eternity won't be possible.

    Axiom of Maria is a precept in alchemy: "One becomes two, two becomes three, and out of the third comes the one as the fourth."

    From Female/Male comes the Male/Female. And Male and Female had a Child. And The Child becomes Male/Female again (Repeat Cycle till eternity.)

    The TRINITY IS THE ABSTRACTION OF THE HIERARCHY OF LIFE. CREATION of Life is the product of LOVE. God is Love. The Trinity is Love. Therefore the Trinity is the manifestation of God, who is One. It doesn't mean that the 3 are Gods individually. The Trinity is God as a whole. 3 AS one.

    “What is done out of Love is beyond Good and Evil”
    ― Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil

    God, having its manifestation in the Trinity, which is One is Love and Love is above and beyond Good and Evil.
  • alchemistofophiralchemistofophir Christian Communist PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    Trinity

    In the fourth-century, Marcellus of Ancyra declared that the idea of the Godhead existing as three hypostases (hidden spiritual realities) came from Plato through the teachings of Valentinus,[9] who is quoted as teaching that God is three hypostases and three prosopa (persons) called the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit:

    "Now with the heresy of the Ariomaniacs, which has corrupted the Church of God... These then teach three hypostases, just as Valentinus the heresiarch first invented in the book entitled by him 'On the Three Natures'. For he was the first to invent three hypostases and three persons of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and he is discovered to have filched this from Hermes and Plato." [10]

    Since Valentinus had used the term hypostases, his name came up in the Arian disputes in the fourth century. Marcellus of Ancyra, who was a staunch opponent of Arianism but also denounced the belief in God existing in three hypostases as heretical (and was later condemned for his views)[dubious – discuss][citation needed], attacked his opponents (On the Holy Church, 9) by linking them to Valentinus:

    "Valentinus, the leader of a sect, was the first to devise the notion of three subsistent entities (hypostases), in a work that he entitled On the Three Natures. For, he devised the notion of three subsistent entities and three persons — father, son, and holy spirit."[11]

    It should be noted that the Nag Hammadi library Sethian text Trimorphic Protennoia identifies Gnosticism as professing Father, Son and feminine wisdom Sophia or as Professor John D. Turner denotes, God the Father, Sophia the Mother, and Logos the Son.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentinus_%28Gnostic%29

    The Trinity was a Gnostic concept introduced by Valentinus, which was then adapted by the Orthodox Christians.

    So the Current Trinitarian Catholic/Orthodox Church is injected with Gnostic concepts and those who are initiated to Gnosticism will understand Catholicism/Orthodoxy better.
  • tontontonton Let's stop and talk awhile. PExer
    Jagon wrote: »
    For centuries christians have debated and argued about God concerning His being, one of the popular ones is the subject concerning the "Trinity".

    mainstream christianity have believed in a trinity doctrine that i'm sorry to say short-sighted if not flawed.

    The popular argument of the Trinity doctrine is:

    "God is One in essence and Three in person, the Father, the Son and the Spirit. That each person is separate from each. The Father is SEPARATE from the Son, and the Spirit, and the Son is separate from the Spirit."

    Sadly, this borders to Tritheism. It is NOT tritheism, but it is almost tritheism, ergo it is thus short-sighted.


    Before we go through the points below, we should first agree that whatever the Bible say, we should just say YES and accept that it is VALID, no matter what. Second, we should accept the truth that even if what the Bible say is contradictory, we still have to say YES on the seeming contradictions and understand that they are not supposed to be contradictory, but only mysteriously revealed.

    There are many points concerning this topic, but I will specifically address the flaws of the traditional mainstream "trinity Doctrine", which Theatheist have prompted me to engage.


    1.) It should be realized that the Bible showed us that God is a God who is One AND Three

    NOT "Three IN One"
    NOT "Three OF One"
    and absolutely NOT "Three and then One"

    He is Three AND One.


    God is ONE

    Deut. 6:4
    Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD

    1 Cor. 8:4 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world and that there is no God but one.


    He is more than ONE (plural).

    Genesis 1:26, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness”

    He is THREE

    Matthew 28:19, where the Lord Jesus charged the eleven apostles to disciple and baptize the nations “into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”


    If we are asked if God is only ONE, we must say YES because that is what the Bible says
    If we are asked if God is THREE, we must say YES because that is what the Bible says

    The problem comes when we are confronted with the question "How is it then possible? How can something be ONE and also THREE? this is contradictory!, this defies reason in great proportions!"

    christians at this point becomes swayed by the devil, they then add some more things in the equation just to satisfy reason and logic, and because of this, heresies are made. and the Trinity doctrine is made.

    Here are examples of heresies:
    a.) Modalism

    This is a belief that God expressed Himself in modes, or faces, to better answer the "devil's question" above, in order to explain logically why the Bible shows God is Three and God is One, Modalism suggests that perhaps God is shown Three in expressions and in three modes, first He is Father, and then for 33 1/2 years, He is Son, and then after His resurrection until now, He is Spirit until forever. So in Eternity Past, there was only the Father "mode", and in the eternity future, there is only the Spirit "mode", the Son? well He is not really eternal as God the Son, He needs to transform into the Spirit "mode" first.

    examples of denominations who based their belief in modalism are Oneness Pentecostals

    b.) Tritheism - carms definition: Tritheism is the teaching that the Godhead is really three "separate" beings forming three separate gods

    Not many christian denomination believes in Tritheism, but most trinitarians has the concept of tritheism even if they say that they believe in a Triune God. Objectively we may say that they believe in the trinity, but practically what they believe in is Three Gods. Most trinitarians are only trinitarians by definition and not by practice.

    examples of a tritheistic denomination are the Mormons.


    c.) Traditional Trinity doctrine
    Why did I earlier stressed my accusations on trinitarians of being tritheistic?
    if Carm states that tritheism is the teaching that the
    "Godhead is really three "separate" beings forming three separate gods",
    mainstream christianity teaches the Trinity as that the
    "Godhead is really three "separate" beings forming three "separate" PERSONS",


    see the similarity?


    If we imagine the three teachings in a graph, putting Modalism in the extreme left, and Tritheism in the extreme right, and the REAL teaching in the Bible concerning the Triune God smacked in the middle, we can say that Trinitarians are near the thin line on the right separating what is True Triune God teaching and Tritheism teaching.

    Why do I say that trinitarians are practically not trinitarians?
    mainstream christianity believes that the Father is distinct and separate from the Son, and distinct and separate from the Spirit. It teaches us that when the Spirit comes to us, the Father, who is another person, is left in the heavens, together with the Son, another person.

    mainstream christianity teaches us that The person of the Father sent His Son, another separate person, to accomplish redemption.

    When believers pray, they are taught to bow before the Father and pray in the name of the Son. To split the Godhead into these separate Persons is not the revelation of the Bible, but the doctrine of the Nicene Creed.


    2.) Coinherence.

    We must also see the relevance of coinherence

    John 14
    10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak from Myself, but the Father who abides in Me does His works.

    11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; but if not, believe because of the works themselves.


    John 17
    21 That they all may be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us; that the world may believe that You have sent Me.

    23 I in them, and You in Me, that they may be perfected into one, that the world may know that You have sent Me and have loved them even as You have loved Me.


    These verses shows that where the Son is the Father is. That the Three mutually exist and indwell in each other, this shows that the Three are INSEPARABLE.


    3.) INSEPARABLE
    The Father and the Son are inseparable
    John 8:29
    And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him.

    The Father and the Spirit are inseparable
    Matt. 10:20
    For you are not the ones speaking, but the Spirit of your Father is the One speaking in you.

    John 15:26
    But when the Comforter comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of reality, who proceeds from (-with) the Father, He will testify concerning Me;


    The Son and the Spirit are inseparable.

    John 14
    16 And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may be with you forever,

    18 I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you.


    1 Cor. 15:45
    the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit.



    4.) are they distinct?

    Some trinitarians will say that they believe that the Three are inseparable, that they are only separate in distinction.

    Tell me if these verses speaks that the 3 are distinct?

    John 10:30
    I and the Father are one.

    2.Cor. 3:17
    And the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

    It is funny I mentioned that many trinitarians are just by definition trinitarian, perhaps their belief are flawed because the definition of their doctrine is simply flawed.


    God is One and God is Three.
    This is the REAL Trinity teaching in the Bible.

    The Father and the Son and the Spirit are ONE person, they even have ONE NAME (Matt. 28:19)
    The person of the Son IS the person of the Father (Isa. 9:6)
    The person of the Spirit IS the person of the Son (Acts 20:28)

    God is NOT One God AND Three Person
    God is One Person AND Three Person.

    K.




















    kalokohan.
  • zuriel1968zuriel1968 Member PExer
    hi tonton, since hindi ka agree kay jagon. may ma shashare kaba na pang kontra kaya mo na sabi na kalokohan. o dahil feel mo lang na kalokohan ito. meron ka bang mabibigay na detailed explaination kontra sa sinabi ni jagon,

    hindi ako kumakampi kay jagon. dahil meron din kaming hindi pag kaka sundo. pero gusto ko sana. kung sasabihin ng isang tao dito na kalokohan ang paksa eh meron siyang solid proof na ito at kalokohan talaga. giving ang details and explaination. salamat
  • TokayTokay Member PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    zuriel1968 wrote: »
    hi tonton, since hindi ka agree kay jagon. may ma shashare kaba na pang kontra kaya mo na sabi na kalokohan. o dahil feel mo lang na kalokohan ito. meron ka bang mabibigay na detailed explaination kontra sa sinabi ni jagon,

    hindi ako kumakampi kay jagon. dahil meron din kaming hindi pag kaka sundo. pero gusto ko sana. kung sasabihin ng isang tao dito na kalokohan ang paksa eh meron siyang solid proof na ito at kalokohan talaga. giving ang details and explaination. salamat

    Ikaw zuriel para sa iyo kalokohan ba o HINDI itong post ni Jagon? kung hindi mo alam ang sagot ibig sabihin wala kang alam/wala kang nalalaman o HINDI MO ALAM ang post ni Jagon;) cge ano?:)
  • zuriel1968zuriel1968 Member PExer
    i dont want to conclude since hindi naman para sa akin ang topic na ito but para kay Theatheist. i will not say kalokohan ito right on the spot then wala akong ibibigay na explaination kung pano ko ito na sabi na kalokohan. tama ba?. dahil mas kalokohan ang sabihin mong kalokohan ito ng wala ka mang lang masasabi kung bakit. tama ba?.

    parang may teacher. nag tuturo. pwede mo bang sabihin na ma'am mali ka. kalokohan yang sinasabi mo. tapos tatahimik ka nalang. dba ang normal na susunod dun ay. sasabihin ng teacher mo. "ok kung kalokohan ito, ano ang tama" so dapat ikaw bilang matalinong tao sasabihin mo ang sa tingin mo kung bakit siya naging kalokohan. tama ba?.

    ito lang naman iyon eh. sabi ko nga hindi porke sinasabi ko ito ay agree na ako kay jargon. pero dahil gusto ko sana ng matalinong pag uusap at hindi puro none sense reply lamang. ikaw tokay. kung sa tingin mo kalokohan ito. pano mo ito na sabi na kalokohan?. meron kabang detalyadong mensahe para ipakita samin na kalokohan ang sinasabi ni jargon?.

    kung totoong marami kang alam o nalalaman. pwede mo bang ipamahagi dito ang malalaman mo?. in regards sa nipost ni hargon
  • zuriel1968zuriel1968 Member PExer
    well ganinto kasi ang matalinong pag uusap. nung nag post si Theatheist about nature of God and trinity. nag disagree si jargon and created this page with detailed information why he/she disagree. yan ang masasabi kong matalinong pag uusap. hindi ang sasabihin mong kalokohan ang isang post ng wala ka mang lang input why. tama ba?.
  • JagonJagon Don't listen to me PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    you can give it a shot zuriel, and not only will i give you an intelligent exchange, you will also "revamp" or "upgrade" your belief of the Trinity. You will understand that the Bible is far more important and concrete than any doctrine established by mainstream christianity.
  • TokayTokay Member PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    zuriel1968 wrote: »
    i dont want to conclude since hindi naman para sa akin ang topic na ito but para kay Theatheist. i will not say kalokohan ito right on the spot then wala akong ibibigay na explaination kung pano ko ito na sabi na kalokohan. tama ba?. dahil mas kalokohan ang sabihin mong kalokohan ito ng wala ka mang lang masasabi kung bakit. tama ba?.

    parang may teacher. nag tuturo. pwede mo bang sabihin na ma'am mali ka. kalokohan yang sinasabi mo. tapos tatahimik ka nalang. dba ang normal na susunod dun ay. sasabihin ng teacher mo. "ok kung kalokohan ito, ano ang tama" so dapat ikaw bilang matalinong tao sasabihin mo ang sa tingin mo kung bakit siya naging kalokohan. tama ba?.

    ito lang naman iyon eh. sabi ko nga hindi porke sinasabi ko ito ay agree na ako kay jargon. pero dahil gusto ko sana ng matalinong pag uusap at hindi puro none sense reply lamang. ikaw tokay. kung sa tingin mo kalokohan ito. pano mo ito na sabi na kalokohan?. meron kabang detalyadong mensahe para ipakita samin na kalokohan ang sinasabi ni jargon?.

    OK we understand your side. it means hindi mo alam ang paniniwala mo at pinaniniwalaan mo wala ka rin paki alam sa pinaniniwalaan mo. Basta nabasa mo lang na ganun OK lang sa iyo hindi mo na NILILINAW KUNG TOTOO O HINDI, i will give passage for you from the bible:

    Gawa 17:11 (see what bereans did)
    Mas bukas ang isipan ng mga Judiong tagaroon kaysa sa mga Judiong taga-Tesalonica. Wiling-wili silang nakikinig sa mga paliwanag ni Pablo, at sinasaliksik nila araw-araw ang mga Kasulatan upang tingnan kung totoo nga ang sinasabi niya.

    1 Juan 4:1
    Mga minamahal, huwag kayong magsipaniwala sa bawa't espiritu, kundi inyong subukin ang mga espiritu, kung sila'y sa Dios: sapagka't maraming nagsilitaw na mga bulaang propeta sa sanglibutan.

    sinusunod mo ba yan?:)

    wala pa ako sinasabi na kalokohan itong thread:)magbibigay ako ng mensahe pero kailangan PUMAYAG ANG AUTHOR NG THREAD NA ITO NA SASALIKSIKIN KO ANG KANYANG PINAGSASABI DITO...ano? sabihin mo kung payag siya?
  • zuriel1968zuriel1968 Member PExer
    well, papayag yan si jagon. alam ko na he/she really believes to what he/she say. and i do agree with the verse na binigay mo. kaya nga ako nag tatanong kung bakit ka disagree sa sinabi nya. para ma compare ko. ayoko kasing mag galing galingan. :)
  • TokayTokay Member PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    zuriel1968 wrote: »
    well, papayag yan si jagon. alam ko na he/she really believes to what he/she say. and i do agree with the verse na binigay mo. kaya nga ako nag tatanong kung bakit ka disagree sa sinabi nya. para ma compare ko. ayoko kasing mag galing galingan. :)

    hindi mo kailangan mag galing galingan hindi ganun ang itinuro...ang sabihin mo wala kang alam kaya OO ka ng OO parang kalabaw na may tali sa ilong sunod sunuran! :lol:
  • JagonJagon Don't listen to me PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    di naman exclusive tong thread e, free for all ito. ayus lang ang hipon :lol:
  • zuriel1968zuriel1968 Member PExer
    oo?. nag agree ba ako kay jagon. nakita mo bang nag agree ako?. pinag mamasdan ko lang ang mga post. binabasa. at iniintindi. pero hindi ibig sabihin agree na ako. kung baga. wala akong kinakampihan. kaya ko nga hinihintay ang sagot ng nag sabi ng kalokohan ang sinabi ni jargon dahil hinihintay ko kung may point din ba ang pag disagree nya.

    in regards sayo tokay. puro ka naman ganyan. pero ka lang pang aalaska. kung talagang alam mo. bakit hindi mo i share dito?. tatanungin kita. anong masasabi mo sa pinost ni jargon. pano mo na sabi na mali iyon at tama ka. kasi sa dami ng sinasabi mo. pinapalabas mong mas tama ka pero wala ka naman sinasabi explaination.

    ikaw na matalino, at ikaw na ang tama. kami na mali at kami na walang alam. pero ano ba ang tama?. paki explain naman samin tokay.. turuan mo nga ako kung ano ba ang tama. sabi mo nga. parang kalabaw na sunod sunodan. so ano ba talaga ang tama?. paki explain nga please.
  • -alucard--alucard- vlad impaler PExer
    zuriel1968 wrote: »
    oo?. nag agree ba ako kay jagon. nakita mo bang nag agree ako?. pinag mamasdan ko lang ang mga post. binabasa. at iniintindi. pero hindi ibig sabihin agree na ako. kung baga. wala akong kinakampihan. kaya ko nga hinihintay ang sagot ng nag sabi ng kalokohan ang sinabi ni jargon dahil hinihintay ko kung may point din ba ang pag disagree nya.

    in regards sayo tokay. puro ka naman ganyan. pero ka lang pang aalaska. kung talagang alam mo. bakit hindi mo i share dito?. tatanungin kita. anong masasabi mo sa pinost ni jargon. pano mo na sabi na mali iyon at tama ka. kasi sa dami ng sinasabi mo. pinapalabas mong mas tama ka pero wala ka naman sinasabi explaination.

    ikaw na matalino, at ikaw na ang tama. kami na mali at kami na walang alam. pero ano ba ang tama?. paki explain naman samin tokay.. turuan mo nga ako kung ano ba ang tama. sabi mo nga. parang kalabaw na sunod sunodan. so ano ba talaga ang tama?. paki explain nga please.

    imho, i doubt makukuha mo yung request mo. :glee:

    AH! AH! AH! AH! AH!

    :bat:
  • TheatheistTheatheist AgnoAtheist PExer
    Jagon wrote: »
    ---snip---
    God is One and God is Three.
    This is the REAL Trinity teaching in the Bible.

    The Father and the Son and the Spirit are ONE person, they even have ONE NAME (Matt. 28:19)
    The person of the Son IS the person of the Father (Isa. 9:6)
    The person of the Spirit IS the person of the Son (Acts 20:28)

    God is NOT One God AND Three Person
    God is One Person AND Three Person.

    This teaching is very much the teachings of Witness Lee / Watchman Nee of the Local Church, the men from China. I thought this was something unique, something of a revelation. :lol:

    I see that you're a member of this church? :D

    All of what you posted have been raised, debunked, and refuted by hundreds of websites, apologetic sites, blogs, youtube, publications, and etc. for countless of years, maybe as old as it's founder. Nothing new under the sun.

    Anyway, these are one of the few sites for your references who have exposed this kind of false teachings:

    http://www.apologeticsindex.org/l40.html
    http://www.thebereans.net/prof-cor.shtml
    http://open-letter.org/
    http://normangeisler.net/articles/theLocalChurch/2009-ResponseToCRIDefenseLocalChurch.htm

    And of course google.

    When joining an unfamiliar Church, always check for red flags. Be diligent. It's the internet age already for crying out loud.

    To be honest, I am not familiar or have heard this Church at all. It's only recent that I read about this Church because it was listed in many apologetic sites. That already raises a red flag.

    I too have a somewhat similar belief as yours in the past, but, my version is that God is one person, one being, having 3 different but simultaneous functions. It is neither modalism, nor tri-theism, nor the tri-unity. It is the singularity of God having three different simultaneous multi-tasking multi-dimensional functions at the same time - in the dimension of heaven as the Father, in the dimension of the physical realm as the Son, and in the dimension of the physical body as the temple of the Holy Spirit. Although, we perceived three persons, they are only one person, operating simultaneously in three different functions, and I call it the Singularity. I held this view for a nice 2-3 years. I was exploring and thought experimenting the possibility that the trinity could be wrong. I was in the "skeptic" mode.

    The more I look in the scriptures and the EVIDENCES in NATURE (Rom. 1:20), the more it only defaulted to the mainstream trinity. I changed my stance in an instant within seconds. I was completely wrong. I relied more on thought experiment rather than what the evidence and scriptures shows. There are about over 2 billion Christians from different Church background who believe the trinity. However, only about 60-80 million do not subscribe to the trinity.

    Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

    Actually, we should not have any excuses at all in misunderstanding who God is because the verse explicitly says that we can directly understand the Godhead by the things God has created. In other words, God has left his signature in nature itself. He has provided all the answers in nature of the things He has created. They are the evidences of who God really is.

    I will continue my post later on with regards to this. But, I'm not going to approach this like most apologetic sites, I'm going to approach this differently, using nature as my template.

    Stay tuned. :D
  • TokayTokay Member PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    Jagon wrote: »
    di naman exclusive tong thread e, free for all ito. ayus lang ang hipon :lol:

    Oh TLG punta ka na dito...:lol: you are invited:)
  • JagonJagon Don't listen to me PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    Theatheist wrote: »
    This teaching is very much the teachings of Witness Lee / Watchman Nee of the Local Church, the men from China. I thought this was something unique, something of a revelation. :lol:

    I see that you're a member of this church? :D

    All of what you posted have been raised, debunked, and refuted by hundreds of websites, apologetic sites, blogs, youtube, publications, and etc. for countless of years, maybe as old as it's founder. Nothing new under the sun.

    Anyway, these are one of the few sites for your references who have exposed this kind of false teachings:

    http://www.apologeticsindex.org/l40.html
    http://www.thebereans.net/prof-cor.shtml
    http://open-letter.org/
    http://normangeisler.net/articles/theLocalChurch/2009-ResponseToCRIDefenseLocalChurch.htm

    And of course google.

    When joining an unfamiliar Church, always check for red flags. Be diligent. It's the internet age already for crying out loud.

    To be honest, I am not familiar or have heard this Church at all. It's only recent that I read about this Church because it was listed in many apologetic sites. That already raises a red flag.

    I too have a somewhat similar belief as yours in the past, but, my version is that God is one person, one being, having 3 different but simultaneous functions. It is neither modalism, nor tri-theism, nor the tri-unity. It is the singularity of God having three different simultaneous multi-tasking multi-dimensional functions at the same time - in the dimension of heaven as the Father, in the dimension of the physical realm as the Son, and in the dimension of the physical body as the temple of the Holy Spirit. Although, we perceived three persons, they are only one person, operating simultaneously in three different functions, and I call it the Singularity. I held this view for a nice 2-3 years. I was exploring and thought experimenting the possibility that the trinity could be wrong. I was in the "skeptic" mode.

    The more I look in the scriptures and the EVIDENCES in NATURE (Rom. 1:20), the more it only defaulted to the mainstream trinity. I changed my stance in an instant within seconds. I was completely wrong. I relied more on thought experiment rather than what the evidence and scriptures shows. There are about over 2 billion Christians from different Church background who believe the trinity. However, only about 60-80 million do not subscribe to the trinity.

    Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

    Actually, we should not have any excuses at all in misunderstanding who God is because the verse explicitly says that we can directly understand the Godhead by the things God has created. In other words, God has left his signature in nature itself. He has provided all the answers in nature of the things He has created. They are the evidences of who God really is.

    I will continue my post later on with regards to this. But, I'm not going to approach this like most apologetic sites, I'm going to approach this differently, using nature as my template.

    Stay tuned. :D

    dude, I've been the path you are taking right now, accusing of different denominations that they are antichrists, or cults. and I tell you, you are making a grave and destructive mistake, instead of helping people and christians you are destroying their relationship with God.

    having said that, I will not deny that some points that I have given above came from Lee and Nee, but you are mistaken that I belong to this "church" like how you think people belong to "churches", I am not limiting my set of beliefs on some group because if I did that then I simply defeated my claim of not having a group or denom, there are good and valid truths that can be taken from different groups, in INC, in the prots denoms, and in the RC.

    It just so happen that Nee's/Lee's are far more updated on this point concerning the Triune God.

    Now, you said that you have plenty of resources that has already debunked and refuted Nee's teachings, but all you've got are bias evangelical sites. you don't know *****.

    Nee is one of the most important leaders in the 20th century that was used by God to spread the gospel in China, many christians including evangelicals accept his teachings.

    oh, he's a martyr in case you didnt know.



    I think we should set aside other things apart from the main topic, I hope that you have the balls to confront my arguments head on, instead of forming conjectures and trying to guess which group I belong.
  • JagonJagon Don't listen to me PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    btw,

    Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

    "Godhead" is wrong

    the right translation is

    Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and divine characteristics; so that they are without excuse:

    Romans 1:20 is theiotes it is different from Col 2:9 theotes, which is Godhead


    liar
  • TheatheistTheatheist AgnoAtheist PExer
    Understanding the trinity (Godhead) is not difficult at all for the Lord God has not left us without any evidence in the things He has created.

    Use this simple template to understand who God is:

    TIME - A TRI-UNITY

    Within TIME itself, there exists three continuous periods of time - the past, the present, and the future. We don't say THREE TIMES, rather, we say THREE PERIODS of TIME. These three continuous periods of time have been in existence with permanence within TIME itself. You remove one component, TIME will not exist or even make sense at all. The present could not exist without the past, the past could not exist without the future, the future could not exist without the present for they are continuously in unity. For these 3 are 1.

    The PAST is distinct from the PRESENT and the PRESENT is distinct from the FUTURE and the FUTURE is distinct from the PAST. The PAST is not the PRESENT and the PRESENT is not the FUTURE and the FUTURE is not the PAST. There is though an apparent separation of periods within TIME - we perceive that the PAST is yesterday, the PRESENT is today, and the FUTURE is tomorrow. Although, distinct, they are continuously in UNITY and inseparable. For these 3 are 1. In terms of its nature, The PAST is TIME, the PRESENT is TIME, and the FUTURE is TIME.

    ---

    Applying this template:

    We cannot therefore say that TIME is ONE period and THREE periods.

    We cannot therefore say that the PAST, PRESENT, and FUTURE are all ONE period of TIME.

    We cannot therefore say that the PAST is the period of the PRESENT and the FUTURE is the period of the PAST.

    We cannot therefore say that the PAST is both the PRESENT and the FUTURE.

    We cannot therefore say that within TIME there exist only the PAST and the PRESENT. The FUTURE is a force.

    We cannot therefore say that within TIME there exist only the PAST. The PRESENT is not TIME and the FUTURE is a force.

    We cannot therefore say that TIME is once the PAST, and then the PRESENT, and finally the FUTURE.

    We cannot therefore say that the PRESENT is TIME who is also the PAST and the FUTURE.

    Therefore, just as TIME exists in THREE continuous distinct periods, GOD exists in THREE simultaneous distinct persons. There is no other TIME besides TIME, just as there is no other GOD besides GOD. There is only ONE TIME, just as there is only ONE GOD. Not THREE TIMES, and certainly not THREE GODS.

    Anything that runs contrary to what TIME is, is an ANTI-TIME. Just as anything that runs contrary to who GOD is, is an ANTI-CHRIST.

    Revelation 1:8

    I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.


    In the context of the template:

    I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending (TIME), saith the Lord, which is (PRESENT), and which was (PAST), and which is to come (FUTURE), the Almighty.

    For the signature of God fills all the fabric of SPACE-TIME itself.

    So, whatever I have thought about the Godhead in the past was completely wrong. It always and persistently defaulted to the mainstream trinity according to evidence and scriptures.

    I would also like to post the other tri-unities found in nature, but, it might induce nosebleed. :lol:

    So, I think this is more than adequate to understand the Godhead (trinity) in simplistic term.

    ACTIVITY

    This is just for fun. Look at your clock. Look at the second hand ticking.

    Every time it ticks, say PRESENT, PRESENT, PRESENT...continuously.
    Now, get a friend and let him look behind the second hand, and let him say PAST, PAST, PAST ...continuously.
    Now, get another friend and let him look ahead of the second hand, say, FUTURE, FUTURE, FUTURE ...continuously.

    Sing it with a musical tone.

    Now, what did you observe in this activity?

    Have fun! :D

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