RCC VS INC Debate:"RESOLVE THAT FYM IS THE LAST MESSENGER OF GOD IN THE LAST DAYS

TLG

Haven't watched it full, but will watch this when i have the time...this should be interesting

TLG

- First Positive stance of ka ventilacion all talk no supporting verses, INC giving john 10:16 as support for FYM's being a messenger, taking the verse out of context....(brother alvin successfully refute it later to show john 10:16 refers to Jesus and not FYM)

- Ka ventilacion claming INC being the 3rd group in st. peter's letter.... 1st group jews, 2nd group Gentiles, 3rd group INC???? So INC's are not classified as gentiles??????

Wow... Wala namang binibigay na verses si Ka Ventilacion para patunayan si FYM.... puro palabok lang! He is proving that INC are prophesied and not FYM Trying to prove the philippines is in the far east and "ends of the earth" argument... he is already veering away from the proposition this early.

Log out na sa office.. will listen next time sa QnA and the first negative stance.

zapebayota

ah ito yung president chapter ng CFD nyahaha ito yung NAKASABUNUTAN este nagkamurahan ni paring ABEgail argianosa ngayon bati bati na sila

sa lahat ng mga nakalaban ng INC na CFD ito yung pinakamahina

ganito ang ugali ni gitammondoc after ng debate nagwawala sa facebook





WARRANT OF ARREST of Alvin gitamondoc posted by ABEgail herself

http://www.splendorofthechurch.com.ph/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Warrant-of-Arrest.jpg

http://theiglesianicristo.blogspot.com/2014/07/iglesia-ni-cristo-vs-roman-catholic_1415.html

pwede silang magsabong ni eliseo soriano parehas silang pasigaw

marami na naman natawag sa loob ng INC dahil sa debate sa CEBU tagpos na naman ang mga katoliko

zapebayota

part 10 of the videos

dito makikita ang kung gaano kahina si gitamondoc NGA NGA sa HEBREW!! hahahaha

TLG

Krams di ba pwedeng yung debate nila aang pag usapan sa thread na ito? Nang hihijack ka naman agad eh tsaka yung topic ang pag usapan.. ang aga mo namang manirang puri, kristyano ka pa naman.

Next time papanoorin ko yung first negative stance.. will keep posting mas maganda kung deatil by detail ang panood.

zapebayota

TLG wrote: »

Krams di ba pwedeng yung debate nila aang pag usapan sa thread na ito? Nang hihijack ka naman agad eh tsaka yung topic ang pag usapan.. ang aga mo namang manirang puri, kristyano ka pa naman.

Next time papanoorin ko yung first negative stance.. will keep posting mas maganda kung deatil by detail ang panood.

anong tawag mo kay gitamondoc?? after ng debate tignan mo post niya hahahaha paninirang puri ba yan? OO

TLG

Make another thread zape para sa mga atake mo.. this thread is about the debate.. at least contribute in your own pov the events that happened in the debate.

TLG

NOw listening...... first cross examination

Brother joe trying to sound smart but won't answer directly thus his time for answering is always cut short leading to him not answering the questions.

TLG

First negative stance...

- Bro. Alvin explaning "ends of the earth" and "end of the earth", that "qatse" has two uses in hebrew, if it refers to time, a specific time period should be involve as it was written in Genesis and qatzeh should be singular (i.e. end)

Genesis 8:3
The water receded steadily from the earth. At the end of the hundred and fifty days the water had gone down,

Mat 28:20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


But if it denotes locations, "qatseh" should be plural as it was written thus the word "ends"

Isaiah 41:9
I took you from the ends of the earth, from its farthest corners I called you. I said, 'You are my servant'; I have chosen you and have not rejected you.


**************

Can the explanation be any clearer than that?

TLG

- Brother alvin tells that "one shepherd" in John 10:16 refers to Chirst and not FYM since the subject of the whole john 10 is christ....
I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.


- Brother alvin reads hebrew 1:2 to read that Christ is the true messenger in these last days and not FYM....
in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world..

---

- Brother alvin is telling that the church cannot simply disappear since Christ promised that the gates of hell will not prevail over his church.....

TLG

First cross examination of Brother Joe.

- Bro Joe is asking if "ends of the earth" is correct or not, Brother Alvin says its correct.
- Wow brother joe is trying to humiliate his counterpart......its not even about the topic anymore..
- Bro joe is asking what is the plural of "qatzeh"..... borther Alvin is saying the question is irrelevant, rather brother alvin is saying that "its how the word was used in the bible"
- Bro joe is not asking questions but rather spending his time attacking bro. alvin...tsk tsk tsk....
- lolz.... Bro. Joe asked brother alvin why bro alvin used rome 16:16, but alvin countered that he has not used rome 16:16 is his speech.... epic fail!
- Bro. Joe is asking if Brother Alvin talked to FYM personally, huh?
- Bor Joe is telling members of the INC in 1914 is telling them FYM proclaimed he is the sugo way back in 1914..

2nd Positive stance will start

TLG

2nd positive of Bro. Joe

- Started his stance by again humiliating his counterpart's knowledge about hebrew....
- Brother Joe is not really adding anything to the topic proposition..... he is just merely attacking now
- Brother Joe read "this last days" bible version where its was explained that Mat 24:6-8 refers to WW1 of 1914 (huh)....
- Brother Joe again brought up john 10:16, telling Jesus is telling about the future, and that one shepherd is FYM (huh)....
- Brother countered Heb 1:2 by telling everybody Jesus is not the last messenger because paul is also a messenger (So FYM is not techincally the last messenger because the suceeding Manalos are also messengers, right)....
- Brother Joe 2 tes2:3, reading about a great (maramihang) apostasy, and reading an OT verse in Daniel where in Israel as a whole turned their back on God. So for a 3rd time the church is to be re-established (1st was Israel, 2nd was 1st century church and 3rd were the INC, where God and Christ failed, FYM succeeded...Blasphemous)
- Brother Joe reading 16:16 about the name of the church which is "Church of Chirst"
- Brother Joe read Mal 2:7 to tell that INC ministers are also messengers (I though FYM is to be the last messenger)
- Borther Joe is ending his stance to attack the RCC (can somebody inform him what the proposition is about)

---

Brother Joe's 2nd positive stance is self-defeating, Did he prove FYM to be the last messenger? No! The succeeding Manalos and INC ministers are also messenger.

TLG

2nd cross examination of Brother Alvin

- Brother Alvin re-asserted and asked what is the real topic proposition (FYM or attacking the catholics), Bro Joe countered by saying that the reason he attacked RCC belief is to prove that FYM is teaching the real doctrines of God.
- Brother Alvin questioned Mal 2:7 presented by INC and asked if FYM is a priest and who ordained him. Brother joe answered that nobody ordained him just like john the baptist
- Brother Joe confirmed that not all messengers were ordained.
- Bother Joe is answering a question with a question and not really answering anything

I'll continue later ......

TLG

Last stance of Brother Alvin

- Brother Alvin say's that laying of hands is very important for the messenger and read 1 tim 5:22, also telling that INC's palusot that "John the Baptist was not baptize" is not covered in the New Testament, because John the Baptist is part of the Old Testament, and the New Testament starts with Jesus, and Jesus was Baptize so should others that will follow him...So FYM not being baptized is against what's written in the New Testament.

- Brother Alvin read the favorite verse of INC, John 17:3 where its clearly written that Christ said that he was sent by God, and proceed to question why INC believed FYM was needed to be sent when Christ was sent already.

- Brother alvin questioned the INC if the new testament ever mentioned a last messenger because INC believes that everything they taught should be written in the bible

- Bro. Alvin stated that st.paul only extended the church as mentioned in rome 16:16, and then cited a pasugo clearly stating Bro Felix Manalo founded the INC in the Philippines

- Bro. Alvin countered the belief that every last member of the first century got apostarized by citing John 10:28 in which Jesus said "Hindi sila malilipol magpakailanman. Walang sinumang makakaagaw sa kanila sa aking kamay". (Wow, blasphemous talaga mga turo ni FYM)

TLG

Continuation of Bro. Alvin's stance

- Brother Alvin questioned a pasugo which states that "Dapat tanggapin ang sugo (FYM) , walang kaligtasan kung hindi siya tatanggapin" because that is not in the bible. (Nakakatakot naman)

- Bro. Alvin questioned why Bro. Joel just attacked in his stance but never provide proof in the new testament regarding the topic proposition.

- Bro. Alvin questioned how come FYM preached when nobody baptized him, nobody ordained him, and God did not talk to him, and read Jer.23:23 & 30 where its states...

I didn’t send the prophets,
yet they ran anyway.
I didn’t speak to them,
yet they prophesied anyway.


Therefore, I’m against the prophets
who steal my words from each other,
declares the Lord.

and that FYM was guilty of this act, a false messenger / prophet

- Bro. Alvin stated that since most of prophecies pertaining to Manalo were derived in the OT, then God should have done this to him like what he did to OT prophets by reading this verse in the OT

Numbers 12:6Common English Bible (CEB)
6 He said, “Listen to my words: If there is a prophet of the Lord among you,[a] I make myself known to him in visions. I speak to him in dreams.


and that this never occured to Felix Manalo.

- Bro. Alvin re-inserted that Felix Manalo is just one of the false prophets trying to scare people using rumors of wars (WW1) by reading mathew 24:5-6 & 11

- Bro. Alvin again re-inserted that the Church can never fall away by reading again ep 3:21 which reads "glory to him in the church and in Christ Jesus for all generations, forever and always. Amen". Not a single generation will the church disappear because its clearly stated "for all generations". Again rebuking FYM's blasphemous teaching of total apostasy..

- Bro. Alvin again reinserted that paul mentioned "great apostasy" but not "total apostasy". and even read another letter by paul with the same concept 1 tim 4:1-3 which reads "The Spirit clearly says that in latter times some people will turn away from the faith.". Again rebuking FYM's blasphemous teaching of total apostasy..

- Bro. Alvin again reinserted that FYM is just a deceiver mentioned in 2 john 1:7 by attacking the words of God.

- Bro. Alvin gave 1 john 2:18 stating that the last hour starts during their time, never mentioned a last messenger after them and that after them many anti-christ will appear and FYM is one of them.

TLG

2 cross examination of Bro. Joel to Bro. Alvin

- Brother Joel if messenger should be ordained, and mentioned its a requirement in the new testament.
- Brother Joel asked where in the bible it mentioned that St. peter was ordained? Bro. Alvin reverts to the letter of St.Paul saying that whatever Paul preached is the same as peter and the apostles and that what he is preaching is a direct commandment from the Lord (1 cor 14:37)
- Brother Joel keeps asking where in the bible it mentioned that St. peter was ordained? Bro. Alvin gave a verse where in peter acknowledge the teaching Paul (Bro. Alvin should have just stated that Christ directly commanded peter and the apostles and blessed them before he ascended to heaven)

- Brother Joel keeps asking where in the bible it mentioned that St. peter was ordained? Now brother Alvin gave a verse saying Jesus will be sending the apostles as the Father have sent him. (This answer is more than enough)

- Brother asking if those who apostatized follow the doctrine of the devil. and tells everyone that one of the doctrine of the devil is forbidding to eat meat and forbidding to marry, and asked if the catholics have a doctrine like that... brother alvin countered that the INC forbid to eat dinuguan and forbid to marry non-INC, and countered that celibacy is not a doctrine in the RCC. (actually this topic has been answered here many times)

End of Cross Examination....i will no longer post their final remarks... and that the moderators will not declare a winner nor a loser, that is up to the listeners

TLG

My assessment of the debate... Bro Joe got whipped on the *****$ bigtime...he never really provided any verse to support the proposition and just merely resorted to attacking....Bro. Alvin more than clearly provided the falsehood of FYM and their doctrine of "total apostay"..

Tnx to this video, i learned more about the falsehood of INC's "total apostasy" doctrine, and that FYM was never really sent.

Ateo

Frankly, Alvin's performance - high-pitched voice, emotional demeanor, rampaging and barely understandable speed - is pathetic. Reminds me of some PExers.

The INC debater's bearing is more impressive, cool, measured cadence, and quick to mock Alvin when opportunities arose.

Now, I will have to pore through Alvin's shrill voice to understand his argument and be able to comment on substance. But already the RCC defender lost miserably on form.

Ferdinand

Ateo wrote: »

Frankly, Alvin's performance - high-pitched voice, emotional demeanor, rampaging and barely understandable speed - is pathetic. Reminds me of some PExers.

The INC debater's bearing is more impressive, cool, measured cadence, and quick to mock Alvin when opportunities arose.

Now, I will have to pore through Alvin's shrill voice to understand his argument and be able to comment on substance. But already the RCC defender lost miserably on form.

But that is the problem with oral face to face debate, it is a skill that one has to master, and people tend to look at the performance, the oratorical and rhetorical skills, instead of the substance.

TLG

Ateo wrote: »

Frankly, Alvin's performance - high-pitched voice, emotional demeanor, rampaging and barely understandable speed - is pathetic. Reminds me of some PExers.

The INC debater's bearing is more impressive, cool, measured cadence, and quick to mock Alvin when opportunities arose.

Now, I will have to pore through Alvin's shrill voice to understand his argument and be able to comment on substance. But already the RCC defender lost miserably on form.

Yun lang masakit sa tenga ang pagsasalita ni bro. alvin laging sumisigaw eh... but one has to look at the substance... hindi lang yung angas... yung kabila puro angas lang wala namang laman ang mga sinasabi.

Ferdinand

Simpleng simple lang naman yang John 10:16. Kung kukunin mo ang konteksto ng OT, it has always been about Jews against ALL the gentile powers. That is what holiness means to the Jews, to be separate. In all the major prophets, it is prophesied that the Messiah will reunite all people to Him both Jews and gentiles, these two groups of people, there is no other third group as what the INCs are saying, since we are going to understand the Old Testament, all gentiles are those who do not profess Yahweh as God, which means Philippines back then is one of the gentile nations. In the Book of Daniel, it was prophesied that the kingdom to be established will be, one. So when Jesus came, he FIRST came to the Jews and it was only later when He resurrected that the gentiles were included in the kingdom. That is what is prophesied in the OT. Jesus said that the prophets long to see this. Daniel is about the MYSTERY OF THE KINGDOM, Revelation is about the REVELATION of that mystery, that there is no longer Jews or Gentiles, slaves or masters, men or women, every one is one in the Kingdom Jesus the Messiah established.

Jews was the flock Jesus had to saved first that is what the prophecy say in Isaiah. That was his mission, but the book of Isaiah also told that he would fail that mission, but saving Israel is not just His mission, His mission is to reunite all people to Him. And that is what He did, Jews and gentiles became one in the Church he established after His resurrection. There is NO third group of people like Joe and the INCs are saying, that is a misinterpretation of of John 10:16, of the whole chapter, of the whole book of John and of the whole Scriptures.