What is the "Human Being" in the Atheist Perspective?
Ateo
Non est Deus. Fac cum eo.
From our theistic upbringing, we all know what Man is? He/she is the apex of creation, the most favored of God, for whom the visible and even the invisible Universe was created. But Man fell, very early on in the timeline of creation. We are not sure if it was the apple or ***** who did him, but because of it God cursed the ground. It was a curse with paradigm-changing implication. Animals became carnivorous; pain became a reality; man became prone to sin; and the Second Law of Thermodynamics came about (just to sound scientific). But a Savior was also planned all along. He came dirt poor, walked about in an area of less than 100 square kilometers, was killed by the Roman overlords, and that's it. Then, supposedly the paradigm changed again; although, frankly , you could not observe what changed as animals are still carnivorous and man is still prone to sin. Nonetheless, ultimately, that dude will come back, ends the world, and the nice guys will enjoy eternal happiness, etc. etc. You know the drill.
Now, what we haven't really discussed is what are Humans in the atheist perspective. Without Creation, Fall, Savior, Second Coming, and Heaven, what is humanity?
Now, what we haven't really discussed is what are Humans in the atheist perspective. Without Creation, Fall, Savior, Second Coming, and Heaven, what is humanity?
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Comments
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That's a hard question, Ateo. Without the Judeo-Christian beliefs, what we have left are new age or ancient alien concepts to describe what man is.
There is, of course, the secular-scientific perspective on the rise of Man. I will share my views next time but I hope others will contribute first. So, how about you? Why don't you share your "man is a gold-mining slave, produced by the Annunakis through ancient cloning techniques"? It is a nice story, less edifying than the "apex of Creation" thingy but more plausible. Nonetheless, I don't believe it either. I have studied that theory but I have given it up.0 -
What is man but dust in the wind in the sea of eternity. Whether his consciousness continues to exist and blend in with the rest of the universe. I am absolutely clueless of what we are. I don't even know if we are caretakers of the earth or if the earth is trying to get rid of us like we get rid of microorganisms in our bodies.
All I have are beliefs. Nothing more, nothing less.0 -
The so-called Judeo-Xtian world-view/philosophy is actually quite naive and if you ask me, was generally meant for parochial minds.
It's interesting to note that Hebrew philosophy is far deeper than anything than the greek-derived stuff that Catholics have come up with, and probably on par with Hinduistic philosophy.
The most intellectually insipid "world-view" of course is that of born-agains and protestants who lack even the greek-derived metaphysical/philosophical basis that Catholics at least try to base their religion on.
The fact that we even waste time bothering to discuss/debate such brain-farts is an indicator of just how the distressing the level of intellectual stupor we find ourselves having to wade in.0 -
Good topic. At least a respite from the Islamic thrashing threads
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From the atheistic perspective you say? There is none.. And even if there is one - there is nothing in the world that can compel you to accept that point of view. 
So dream on. It's anybody's guess and this is mine: Well you came from the muck that is supposed to be the ancient primeval slime. From where I'm at that makes a lot of sense and there isn't much improvement despite millions of years of evolution from your humble beginnings each time I look at you fellas hahaha. 0 -
I like the fact that this thread seems to imply that apart from the Christian worldview, we struggle with what it means to be a human.
Someone from the other thread said that I am too far gone with my thinking. Well, I take it as a compliment because it means I have come around and have surpassed the initial hurdles imposed by the search for truth. What does it take to do that? Simple. Proverbs 9:10 tells us that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. That is the starting point if you are serious with your pursuit of the truth.
You only have to look at the history of thought to see how detached the secular world is from the very essence of life:
Dark Ages - man tried to appease God by constantly trying to be good through indulgences, self-sacrifice, etc.
Renaissance - man moved toward rationalism. man became the measure of all things, the question is, which man?
18th century - people like David Hume championed empiricism and the scientific method to find out what is true
19th century - nihilism gained prominence, the philosophy of unyielding despair - that everything will eventually wind down to nothingness.
20th century - philosophers embraced existentialism - that you rise above despair and lack of meaning through self-will. no meaning? simple, you can create meaning through sheer willpower.
1950s - we're now in the world of postmodernism, which debunks previous lines of thought and arrives at the conclusion that there is no truth, no meaning, no certainty. back to square one. everything is relative. bored? why not experiment and push boundaries! yeah! go ahead and engage in pre-marital sex. or how about orgy and swinging? or sandwich, sadism, BDSM. after all, there is no meaning hence no need to be accountable for your actions.
What's funny is that while humans crash and burn in their search for meaning, animals don't even sweat it. Dogs don't get together and hold conferences to find out what it means to be a dog. They are just being what they are - a dog. They celebrate their nature without even being self-conscious about it.
One of the best philosophers who have ever walked on earth is King Solomon, who fell hard, made so many mistakes, and bounced back. Ecclesiastes contains his musings on the meaning of life, and in the end, this is what he had to say:
Here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)
What commandments? Jesus said in Matthew 22:37-40 that the Law can be summed up into two: Loving God above all things and loving your neighbors as you love yourself. That, my friends, is what it means to be a human. Char.0 -
what is humanity?
Profile: Human
Runs on: Battery
Energy source: Adenosine Triphosphate Cell, the battery unit
Power Output: 150 watts +/- . Enough to power two 60 watts light bulb.
Fuel: C6H12O6
Data storage: DNA
Special body feature: Self repair
Gas intake: O2
Exhaust 1: CO2
Exhaust 2:CH4
Expiry Date: 70 years
Replicating: Yes
Memory Storage: 2.5 petabytes
Human substance: Atoms
Atom substance: 99.9999999% empty, 0.0000001% phantom vibrating energy.
Tangibility: Electrostatic force field.0 -
Good topic. At least a respite from the Islamic thrashing threads.
From the atheistic perspective you say? There is none.. And even if there is one - there is nothing in the world that can compel you to accept that point of view. So dream on. It's anybody's guess and this is mine: Well you came from the muck that is supposed to be the ancient primeval slime. From where I'm at that makes a lot of sense and there isn't much improvement despite millions of years of evolution from your humble beginnings each time I look at you fellas hahaha.
Hahaha... don't forget transubstantation.
Probably the most ridiculous belief of all time, even before the big bang. 0 -
Good topic. At least a respite from the Islamic thrashing threads.
From the atheistic perspective you say? There is none.. And even if there is one - there is nothing in the world that can compel you to accept that point of view. So dream on. It's anybody's guess and this is mine: Well you came from the muck that is supposed to be the ancient primeval slime. From where I'm at that makes a lot of sense and there isn't much improvement despite millions of years of evolution from your humble beginnings each time I look at you fellas hahaha.Prikongkong wrote: »Hahaha... don't forget transubstantation.
Probably the most ridiculous belief of all time, even before the big bang.
How dare El Cid laughs. Hahaha!!
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How dare El Cid laughs. Hahaha!!
And the two of you i.e. the magnificent prik and you didn't come from slime. Instead, you came from the frothing scum generated by preserved dinosaur fart and organic poop from the first Triassic Period which came oozing out of a rock after an earthquake. Ganda lols. That is supposed to explain the diversity of the human race 0 -
very well said.0
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very well saidI like the fact that this thread seems to imply that apart from the Christian worldview, we struggle with what it means to be a human.
Someone from the other thread said that I am too far gone with my thinking. Well, I take it as a compliment because it means I have come around and have surpassed the initial hurdles imposed by the search for truth. What does it take to do that? Simple. Proverbs 9:10 tells us that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. That is the starting point if you are serious with your pursuit of the truth.
You only have to look at the history of thought to see how detached the secular world is from the very essence of life:
Dark Ages - man tried to appease God by constantly trying to be good through indulgences, self-sacrifice, etc.
Renaissance - man moved toward rationalism. man became the measure of all things, the question is, which man?
18th century - people like David Hume championed empiricism and the scientific method to find out what is true
19th century - nihilism gained prominence, the philosophy of unyielding despair - that everything will eventually wind down to nothingness.
20th century - philosophers embraced existentialism - that you rise above despair and lack of meaning through self-will. no meaning? simple, you can create meaning through sheer willpower.
1950s - we're now in the world of postmodernism, which debunks previous lines of thought and arrives at the conclusion that there is no truth, no meaning, no certainty. back to square one. everything is relative. bored? why not experiment and push boundaries! yeah! go ahead and engage in pre-marital sex. or how about orgy and swinging? or sandwich, sadism, BDSM. after all, there is no meaning hence no need to be accountable for your actions.
What's funny is that while humans crash and burn in their search for meaning, animals don't even sweat it. Dogs don't get together and hold conferences to find out what it means to be a dog. They are just being what they are - a dog. They celebrate their nature without even being self-conscious about it.
One of the best philosophers who have ever walked on earth is King Solomon, who fell hard, made so many mistakes, and bounced back. Ecclesiastes contains his musings on the meaning of life, and in the end, this is what he had to say:
Here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)
What commandments? Jesus said in Matthew 22:37-40 that the Law can be summed up into two: Loving God above all things and loving your neighbors as you love yourself. That, my friends, is what it means to be a human. Char.0 -
maximus2349 wrote: »very well said
Not to mention irrelevant since the thread asks about the "atheist perspective" on man.
What exactly about humanity is it that we are talking about? What humans are made of? What is the human nature? What is the purpose of humans in this world? Where are we going?
What humans are made of?
DNA, proteins, water, fats, etc.
What is the human nature?
A lot can be said on this topic alone. However, I think the primest nature that we have as humans is that we try to achieve the highest state of physical, mental, emotional, and social satisfaction. Sometimes we give up one element for a higher return on another (i.e. a poor mother may give her share of food to her children in exchange for knowing that her children is relatively well-fed, an exchange from physical to emotional-social satisfaction).
(Note that I did not specify "spiritual" satisfaction because I don't know what exactly we mean by spiritual satisfaction.)
What is the purpose of humans in this world?
Since atheists do not believe in a god, man is free to determine his own destiny and purpose in this world.
Where are we going?
We, as the organic beings that we are, get old and eventually die. The only possible remembrance of our existence in this world is by through people we helped, things we changed, events we shaped, and arts we made. I know that to some theists this idea becomes their source of jokes towards atheists but I would like to just say that reality does not always corresponds to beauty. Sure, a palace in the clouds or 72 virgins in the afterlife does sound more exciting but they may be just that: things too good to be true. (And of course, AT LEAST one of the two aforementioned afterlives is not true)0 -
The Rise of Humans - please read my wall of text naman. Thanks! You are my idols.
Man is not the apex of creation. He (and She) evolved from ape-like ancestors. The human species is relatively new. It fully became a distinct species only 200,000 years ago. And modern behavior that characterized humans (language, culture, art, etc.) only came about in around 50,000 years ago. The rise of man was precarious; at many times we almost went extinct as a species. In fact, some 30,000 years ago, one of our sub-species the Neanderthals went extinct. It was only some 10,000 years ago when human civilization was established and we were on our way of becoming an important species in the planet.
Man is special in so many ways. While he is now the dominant species, it was not always that way historically. He was only dominant (or top predator) for some 10,000 years now, the Dinosaurs, in comparison, dominated this planet for a full 135 MILLION years! Humans may not reign that long. I am not talking about the Rapture. There are catastrophic risks that humanity is facing global warming, viruses, nuclear war, volcanism, etc. Each of this could wipe us up just as a meteor or global volcanism wiped out the dinosaurs.
As the eagle evolved with better and better eyes, and the shark with a better and better sense of smell; humans evolved with bigger and bigger brain. It is an evolutionary adaptation that allowed humans to eventually develop the internet and online forums. We are now the species with the biggest brain/body-size ratio. We particularly favored the development of the neocortex and the prefrontal lobe that support advanced intelligence.
As evolutionary creatures, we have strong drives and survival instincts. Hunger and sex are our two strongest drives because they are connected to the perpetuation of the species. Religious fanatics mistake these drives as temptations to sin and sought to control them with various commandments and taboos.
Civilization was a factor in the rise of Man. But for people to live together harmoniously, rules of civil behavior were needed. So, our ancient laws were actually useful. Do not steal, do not murder, do not commit adultery. Each one of those made for a harmonious ancient society. Of course, the ancient goatherds were not 100% correct, so they mix up the good laws with stoopid ones do not eat lobster, no *****, and no M2M sex. It should have been fine if those laws were allowed to evolve too. Unfortunately, those ancients declared that those were the laws of their unchanging god. Society evolved by ignoring those unchanging laws and developed what are now called as secular laws. Thankfully, *****, shrimps, and homosexuality are legal under secular laws. So, in the past couple of centuries, we now live under two rules a set of moldy rules called conservative religious morality, and a modern set of laws and social mores called secular morality and laws.
Religion itself was not bad at the start. Some 5,000 years ago, tribes fought against each other and only the strongest survived. It was from these strongest tribes who were unlikely to go extinct, thus preserving our species. The strongest tribes were bonded by religion, thus Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism contributed to forming and keeping viable societies. Religion as an idea have pros and cons, although it was more useful then than now. Many humans still have conditions that allowed them to experience religiosity more deeply, such as pareidolia, for example (see the thread about "Walang Himala"). Those are mental relics of our religious past. Today, modern societies are doing well with less religion. Japan, the Scandinavians, and other modern countries are minimizing the role of religion in their national life. Modern concepts; like Human Rights, Sustainable Development, and Global Citizenship; are now the strongest determinants of our laws, secular morality, and human behavior. The global reaction to Yolanda, for example, was driven much less by any religious obligation and more by a global sense of obligation.
We are humans. We are not an apex of Creation. We are currently the most dominant species, but we still live a precarious existence on the verge of extinction. We share common interests and govern ourselves by secular laws and mores. More than any other time in our history, we provide more welfare and happiness to our fellow humans. There are a few who still talk about Jesus and the Rapture, but they are becoming less and less important with each new generation. We are now in the Age of the Twitter but we continue to evolve. We dont know what the journey will bring, but we are more confident of our shared humanity. We don't get our confidence from a god but from each other.0 -
The Rise of Humans - please read my wall of text naman. Thanks! You are my idols.
Man is not the apex of creation. He (and She) evolved from ape-like ancestors. The human species is relatively new. It fully became a distinct species only 200,000 years ago. And modern behavior that characterized humans (language, culture, art, etc.) only came about in around 50,000 years ago. The rise of man was precarious; at many times we almost went extinct as a species. In fact, some 30,000 years ago, one of our sub-species the Neanderthals went extinct. It was only some 10,000 years ago when human civilization was established and we were on our way of becoming an important species in the planet.
Man is special in so many ways. While he is now the dominant species, it was not always that way historically. He was only dominant (or top predator) for some 10,000 years now, the Dinosaurs, in comparison, dominated this planet for a full 135 MILLION years! Humans may not reign that long. I am not talking about the Rapture. There are catastrophic risks that humanity is facing global warming, viruses, nuclear war, volcanism, etc. Each of this could wipe us up just as a meteor or global volcanism wiped out the dinosaurs.
As the eagle evolved with better and better eyes, and the shark with a better and better sense of smell; humans evolved with bigger and bigger brain. It is an evolutionary adaptation that allowed humans to eventually develop the internet and online forums. We are now the species with the biggest brain/body-size ratio. We particularly favored the development of the neocortex and the prefrontal lobe that support advanced intelligence.
As evolutionary creatures, we have strong drives and survival instincts. Hunger and sex are our two strongest drives because they are connected to the perpetuation of the species. Religious fanatics mistake these drives as temptations to sin and sought to control them with various commandments and taboos.
Civilization was a factor in the rise of Man. But for people to live together harmoniously, rules of civil behavior were needed. So, our ancient laws were actually useful. Do not steal, do not murder, do not commit adultery. Each one of those made for a harmonious ancient society. Of course, the ancient goatherds were not 100% correct, so they mix up the good laws with stoopid ones do not eat lobster, no *****, and no M2M sex. It should have been fine if those laws were allowed to evolve too. Unfortunately, those ancients declared that those were the laws of their unchanging god. Society evolved by ignoring those unchanging laws and developed what are now called as secular laws. Thankfully, *****, shrimps, and homosexuality are legal under secular laws. So, in the past couple of centuries, we now live under two rules a set of moldy rules called conservative religious morality, and a modern set of laws and social mores called secular morality and laws.
Religion itself was not bad at the start. Some 5,000 years ago, tribes fought against each other and only the strongest survived. It was from these strongest tribes who were unlikely to go extinct, thus preserving our species. The strongest tribes were bonded by religion, thus Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism contributed to forming and keeping viable societies. Religion as an idea have pros and cons, although it was more useful then than now. Many humans still have conditions that allowed them to experience religiosity more deeply, such as pareidolia, for example (see the thread about "Walang Himala"). Those are mental relics of our religious past. Today, modern societies are doing well with less religion. Japan, the Scandinavians, and other modern countries are minimizing the role of religion in their national life. Modern concepts; like Human Rights, Sustainable Development, and Global Citizenship; are now the strongest determinants of our laws, secular morality, and human behavior. The global reaction to Yolanda, for example, was driven much less by any religious obligation and more by a global sense of obligation.
We are humans. We are not an apex of Creation. We are currently the most dominant species, but we still live a precarious existence on the verge of extinction. We share common interests and govern ourselves by secular laws and mores. More than any other time in our history, we provide more welfare and happiness to our fellow humans. There are a few who still talk about Jesus and the Rapture, but they are becoming less and less important with each new generation. We are now in the Age of the Twitter but we continue to evolve. We dont know what the journey will bring, but we are more confident of our shared humanity. We don't get our confidence from a god but from each other.
Religion and faith becomes less and less relevant specially if you talk to the youths of western countries, or even in Asia for that matter. When the conservative old die off, what happens to religion and faith? What happens to the faiths of rambler, bani and company? Will the believers of those types of faith be relegated as a laughing stock that have never progressed in their thinking, because they believe but never really saw and probably be discriminated against? Or will the secular human being, having evolved higher and evolved from mere talker to doer accept them with open arms regardless of their insistence to the inanities of their beliefs, and effectively control the left-over violent extremists? I am excited and curious to see how our future generations deal with them.0 -
which is why they are merely dogs. humans rule.What's funny is that while humans crash and burn in their search for meaning, animals don't even sweat it. Dogs don't get together and hold conferences to find out what it means to be a dog. They are just being what they are - a dog. They celebrate their nature without even being self-conscious about it.
We are the champions of life on earth. Its savior. Humans are Life's greatest chance to colonize the universe.0 -
which is why they are merely dogs. humans rule.
Our brains developed to the point of self-awareness. We are not alone in this, of course. While a chicken fights with its own mirror image, a baby chimp recognizes itself in the mirror. But amazingly a human neurologist can examine the very object - the brain - that makes us distinctly human.0 -
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In this Discussion
- Ateo 4 posts
- Frank_Macky 3 posts
- tonton 3 posts
- SirZap 2 posts
- ElCid 2 posts
- sophion 2 posts
- maximus2349 2 posts
- iskrotum 1 post
- totben331 1 post
- Prikongkong 1 post
