toyota electronic diagnostics for idling calibration

hijk

mga sirs....

my revo dlx 99 gas po EFI medyo mataas parin idle kahit sagad na adjustment sa distributor...my tito advised me to go to toyota shop for electronic diagnostics and adjustment ng idling na computerized...

any inputs dito sir? saang shops pwede at how much would it usually take...

tried to call toyota makati services to inquire...diagnostics daw 2800p minumum nila pero na wwaive daw pag may mga papalitan na parts...im thingking masyadong mahal...bka po may alam kayo...thanks!

slamm

AFAIK, the idling is not adjusted by the distributor. The distributor movement adjusts the timing and a "sagad" setting isn't good (you're either too advanced or too retarded on the timing).

Have a proper shop take a look. What area are you from? A decent Goodyear Servitek should be able to help. Try also Motech (you can google the address/branches, they have in Makati, Cainta and Fairview), or Speedyfix.

jason_10

Try another Toyota dealer. Usually, idle reset/relearn are free when you avail of any PMS/repair. Or if ever, they're not supposed to charge 2800 for a diagnosis.

joeyd

Isnt it when you remove the power from the ECU then everything is reset? Then it "learns" anew when you power it up and restart the engine? I have tried disconnecting the battery terminals from my EFI and shorting them out (just to discharge the ECU components such as capacitors), and it definitely has a positive effect on engine performance. Dunno if it will work on the Revo EFI though.

shun_sakurai

joeyd wrote: »

Isnt it when you remove the power from the ECU then everything is reset? Then it "learns" anew when you power it up and restart the engine? I have tried disconnecting the battery terminals from my EFI and shorting them out (just to discharge the ECU components such as capacitors), and it definitely has a positive effect on engine performance. Dunno if it will work on the Revo EFI though.

That's the concept of "idle reset/relearn" - although I'm not sure if shorting out the battery terminals is part of it.

Based on your explanation maybe you meant "grounding out" instead of "shorting out" - it's a common procedure for any work done on electronics and computers to make sure you avoid any short-circuiting. A short circuit is usually not a good thing.

jason_10

I think removing the battery will only reset the fuel map. At least with mine, the Consult II was used to reset and revert the idle back to factory settings. The dealer can also check if your TPS is in proper specs. Based on my handheld scanner, it reads 0% on idle and 80-90% on full throttle. On other cars, I've tested, TPS is open at about 7% at idle.

I suggest having it done sa casa since I haven't seen any shop that uses voltmeters or any device to properly calibrate a TPS. If it's out of spec, you'll be wasting fuel. One thing to check na din.

joeyd

shun_sakurai wrote: »

That's the concept of "idle reset/relearn" - although I'm not sure if shorting out the battery terminals is part of it.

Based on your explanation maybe you meant "grounding out" instead of "shorting out" - it's a common procedure for any work done on electronics and computers to make sure you avoid any short-circuiting. A short circuit is usually not a good thing.

Yup, that what i meant. Thanks for clearing that out, sir shun_sakurai.

bf3

Fuel map reset? No. Kelangan mo ireflash yon para mabura/alter mo yung fuel map.

Kadalasan may pipihitin ka lang na screw dyan sa may throttle body to adjust idle. Sa ibang auto, di ganon ka simple dahil meron pang kelangan iground sa ecu before adjusting idle. Nasa 7 to 10% talaga reading ng TPS during idle. At ang trabaho ng TPS eh para lang sabihin ano position ng throttle opening. Sa mga AT trannies, laking bagay sakto position ng TPS para sakto shifting, pero sa MT, di gano.

Gano ba kataas yung idle speed? Maraming pwede pangalingan yan. Stepper motor/servo, air temp, base ignition timing, ecu, idle screw na sobrang luwag.

Try mo muna pihitin yung idle screw pasara.

jason_10 wrote: »

I think removing the battery will only reset the fuel map. At least with mine, the Consult II was used to reset and revert the idle back to factory settings. The dealer can also check if your TPS is in proper specs. Based on my handheld scanner, it reads 0% on idle and 80-90% on full throttle. On other cars, I've tested, TPS is open at about 7% at idle.

I suggest having it done sa casa since I haven't seen any shop that uses voltmeters or any device to properly calibrate a TPS. If it's out of spec, you'll be wasting fuel. One thing to check na din.

jason_10

^What I was saying is to "reset" not alter. That is why after installing an aftermarket open type filter, its generally recommended to remove the battery to reset the ECU so it could adjust and take advantage of the increased air flow and adjust accordingly.

TPS opening varies. My 04 Cefiro reads 0%, a Kia soul is at 9% and a Ford Expedition reads at 19% based on my OBD scanner.

It is important that the TPS is at proper spec regardless if you have AT or MT. You would use up more fuel than you have to if its out of spec.

bf3

Ok. Reset means it will go to its default setting right? Fuel map? No. I've been tuning and reflashing ECUs for 10 years now. Specially DSM/evos. My chips have gone as quick as 10.4s. Mitsu Cyborg, BRC track.

Fuel Map is static. You can't reset it unless you alter it and write it on the chip.

There's an octane map that checks what gas you've been using. Octane map is different from fuel map. Yan yung pwede mareset not the fuel map. Usually hi performance cars meron 2 fuel maps for high and low octane. Sa ordinary efi, walang ganon. Kung walang knock sensor yan, walang octane map yan. One fuel map does it all. So kapag nagreset ka ng battery, balik ka dun sa high octane fuel map na mas aggressive ang fueling. Pagnagumpisa ka magPing/detonate, ecu will switch to low octane fuel map.

No need to reset the ecu/battery if you change the filter. If you change the filter, you will get more air per intake stroke diba? Yung Airflow sensor or Map sensor in other cars will get the reading per intake stroke. Yung ECU mo may look up table yan base on load/airflow. Lets say naka set sa fuel map ng ecu is 14.7:1 at cruising or idle, yan ang pilit ibibigay ng injectors mo. Alangan naman kada pihit mo sa boost controller, magreset ka ng ECU-(TC cars). Kapag naka close loop ka, may feedback pa sa o2 sensor. Kapag naka open throttle ka, wala ng feedback at corrections base sa o2 sensor. Di mo na kelangan magreset dahil nagkabit ka ng air filter. Automatic nagaadjust yung ecu ng fuel base dun sa hangin na dinagdag mo. Ngayon kung carb, yan, palit ka bagong jettings to match the airflow kun sakali.

"TPS opening varies. My 04 Cefiro reads 0%, a Kia soul is at 9% and a Ford Expedition reads at 19% based on my OBD scanner. " Yup kahit naman same model nagkakaiba iba rin. Pero sabi ko nga, sa mga AT tranny malaki bearing ng output ng TPS. Kasi dun nagbase ng shift points yung AT ECU or TCU. Yung load/airflow at fueling hindi nagbase sa TPS. Sa map/airflow sensor/baro sensor/air temp tumitingin yung fueling.

Yes, you would use more fuel sa AT tranny kasi mali yung shift point. Sa MT, not really. Kahit iwide band mo pa yan. Pero para lang spec, dali lang naman iset yung TPS base dun sa manual ng auto.

jason_10 wrote: »

^What I was saying is to "reset" not alter. That is why after installing an aftermarket open type filter, its generally recommended to remove the battery to reset the ECU so it could adjust and take advantage of the increased air flow and adjust accordingly.

TPS opening varies. My 04 Cefiro reads 0%, a Kia soul is at 9% and a Ford Expedition reads at 19% based on my OBD scanner.

It is important that the TPS is at proper spec regardless if you have AT or MT. You would use up more fuel than you have to if its out of spec.

jason_10

^Sorry I got confused with the "fuel map" and "octane" map.

I was suggesting to check on the TPS because on my old Cefiro, the TPS was adjusted manually by a mechanic at Petron without using a diagnostic tool, let alone, a multimeter. It did reduce the shift shock, but it did consume lots of fuel. 4km city and 8km/l highway. And yes, you don't have to reset the ECU, but it wouldn't hurt to do so. The ECU will adjust quicker.

"Yup kahit naman same model nagkakaiba iba rin" -wouldn't it be better if the TPS is calibrated to proper spec? If the default is 7% and the TPS is open at 20%, regardless if its MT or AT, the fuel injectors might still be open when decelerating resulting to wasted fuel.

"Usually hi performance cars meron 2 fuel maps for high and low octane. Sa ordinary efi, walang ganon. Kung walang knock sensor yan, walang octane map yan" -my car is an ordinary jap car with a v6. But it has a knock sensor. So is an "ordinary" 96 Civic Vti. It has a knock sensor too.

My point is for the TS to have the TPS checked as. Since most independent shops are not equipped with diagnostic tools to properly fix a car that is why I recommend to bring it at a dealership for proper diagnosis.

bf3

Cge, sabihin nalang natin meron ordinary cars na may knock sensor. Pero marami rin wala.

The ECU listens for knock if it has a knock sensor. ECU retards the timing if it hears knock and if it has multiple fuel and timing maps, ECU picks the conservative map. Kung isa lang yung map, ireretard lang ng ECU yung timing to minimize ping.

I still wouldn't reset the ECU para lang dun. Mas malakas sa gas nga kapag fresh from reset dahil ibang TCU nagrelearn ng shift points. Mas mahaba shifting nito. Misconception lang yon na dapat ireset ang ECU. Nasa sa inyo yon.

Eto nga, yung shop ba alam yung default setting ng TPS ng bawat sasakyan? Pwede naman hindi na gumamit ng OBD scanner para sa TPS. Pwede na yung volt meter at pipihitin nalang yung TPS. Ang tanong ko, alam ba nung shop ano yung tamang reading para sa default setting? Kung stock yan, malamang di nagalaw yan. Saka kadalasan napapansin ko may marking yung TPS ng defaul setting nya. Parang white pen or something. Nakikita ko to sa mga ibang auto.

Sa AT talaga ramdam mo kapag sablay yung TPS. Sa MT, meron konting accel enrichment kung tawagin base sa TPS para smooth ang deceleration. Pero not much yon para lumakas ka sa gas.

Pero teka lumalayo na tayo.Idle lang problema nito. Simpleng simple lang yan. Idle screw lang pipihitin dyan at icheck yung base timing ignition baka naka advance kaya mataas parin ang idle.

jason_10 wrote: »

^Sorry I got confused with the "fuel map" and "octane" map.

I was suggesting to check on the TPS because on my old Cefiro, the TPS was adjusted manually by a mechanic at Petron without using a diagnostic tool, let alone, a multimeter. It did reduce the shift shock, but it did consume lots of fuel. 4km city and 8km/l highway. And yes, you don't have to reset the ECU, but it wouldn't hurt to do so. The ECU will adjust quicker.

"Yup kahit naman same model nagkakaiba iba rin" -wouldn't it be better if the TPS is calibrated to proper spec? If the default is 7% and the TPS is open at 20%, regardless if its MT or AT, the fuel injectors might still be open when decelerating resulting to wasted fuel.

"Usually hi performance cars meron 2 fuel maps for high and low octane. Sa ordinary efi, walang ganon. Kung walang knock sensor yan, walang octane map yan" -my car is an ordinary jap car with a v6. But it has a knock sensor. So is an "ordinary" 96 Civic Vti. It has a knock sensor too.

My point is for the TS to have the TPS checked as. Since most independent shops are not equipped with diagnostic tools to properly fix a car that is why I recommend to bring it at a dealership for proper diagnosis.