Four stages of spiritual development
Frank_Macky
Heretic / Infidel
I started out as someone who was brainwashed in childhood and puberty (by the school I studied in) into "accepting jesus as my 'personal' savior" and considered myself a "christian". However, upon reaching my teens, I had endless nagging doubts about the stuff I was being forced/pressured to believe in (*). I picked up a lot of books about religion, but the core of my beliefs was still Born-Againist Baptist Xtianity. You know, the stuff that we hear SmartDessa, James123456 etc... talk about in this forum.
(*) And no, it's not "satan" tempting me, it's just my own brain and mind telling me just how utterly ridiculous and full of bull$hit the stuff I was being taught was.
Thus, in my mind, the only authority that I would accept would have to be from someone who also possessed the label "Xtian". Author Scott Peck considered himself a "christian", so ironically, the insights in his book started me on the path that would ultimately allow me to get rid of these odious, crippling beliefs. I do find Peck's ideas to be very reasonable (so in that sense, you can't call him a fundie xtian). The following reflects an important core belief of his and I find the classifications very useful to this day:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._Scott_Peck#The_Four_Stages_of_Spiritual_Development
Stage I is chaotic, disordered, and reckless. Very young children are in Stage I. They tend to defy and disobey, and are unwilling to accept a will greater than their own. They are extremely egoistic and lack empathy for others. Many criminals are people who have never grown out of Stage I.
Stage II is the stage at which a person has blind faith in authority figures and sees the world as divided simply into good and evil, right and wrong, us and them. Once children learn to obey their parents and other authority figures, often out of fear or shame, they reach Stage II. Many so-called religious people are essentially Stage II people, in the sense that they have blind faith in God, and do not question His existence. With blind faith comes humility and a willingness to obey and serve. The majority of good, law-abiding citizens never move out of Stage II.
Stage III is the stage of scientific skepticism and questioning. A Stage III person does not accept things on faith but only accepts them if convinced logically. Many people working in scientific and technological research are in Stage III. They often reject the existence of spiritual or supernatural forces since these are difficult to measure or prove scientifically. Those who do retain their spiritual beliefs move away from the simple, official doctrines of fundamentalism.
Stage IV is the stage where an individual starts enjoying the mystery and beauty of nature and existence. While retaining skepticism, he starts perceiving grand patterns in nature and develops a deeper understanding of good and evil, forgiveness and mercy, compassion and love. His religiousness and spirituality differ significantly from that of a Stage II person, in the sense that he does not accept things through blind faith or out of fear, but does so because of genuine belief, and he does not judge people harshly or seek to inflict punishment on them for their transgressions. This is the stage of loving others as yourself, losing your attachment to your ego, and forgiving your enemies. Stage IV people are labeled as Mystics.
Stage I people only understand punishment and reward, and have essentially NO capacity for moral reasoning.
In Stage II are fundamentalists who have nearly ZERO intellectual ability to question their beliefs.
In Stage III are many people who consider themselve atheist, as well as the "reasonable" christians, etc...
Stage IV would be saints, yogis, gurus, Aleister Crowley (?)
etc...
Because of their extremely limited and narrow understanding, Stage II people actually often consider and label Stage IV people as demons (this was mentioned in Scott's book). Funnily, but appropriately enough, they also consider Stage III people - who are essentially more evolved than they are - to be "sinners destined for hell" because the Stage III people have the courage and capacity to think for themselves (yes, that's a SIN for Stage II people).
Stage II people are often Stage I people who have encountered punishment (not from "god", but from the world at large), e.g. they have managed to thoroughly f-ck up their lives, and realize they do not have the ability to make it on their own. This is why they embrace religious authority blindly. Either that, or they simply do not possess the capacity for self-control themselves and thus believe that strong authority is needed to keep the world from degenerating into selfish chaos. (You frequently hear this in their arguments for why their respective religion/non-religion-that-is-actually-still-a-religion needs to prevail).
Stage II people do not have the freedom that goes with enlightened (to some degree) understanding that Stage III people have and thus envy them and try to label them in a pejorative manner. Very often, you will hear of "christian converts" who were into drugs, etc... before and they now have become fanatical Jesus freaks. Perfect example of a Stage II person. Suddenly this person who cannot even get their own lives straight earlier, now thinks that they are "saved" and special, while the rest of humanity who were perfectly capable of organizing their own lives without creating trouble for others are destined for hell or in some way "unsaved".
(*) And no, it's not "satan" tempting me, it's just my own brain and mind telling me just how utterly ridiculous and full of bull$hit the stuff I was being taught was.
Thus, in my mind, the only authority that I would accept would have to be from someone who also possessed the label "Xtian". Author Scott Peck considered himself a "christian", so ironically, the insights in his book started me on the path that would ultimately allow me to get rid of these odious, crippling beliefs. I do find Peck's ideas to be very reasonable (so in that sense, you can't call him a fundie xtian). The following reflects an important core belief of his and I find the classifications very useful to this day:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._Scott_Peck#The_Four_Stages_of_Spiritual_Development
Stage I is chaotic, disordered, and reckless. Very young children are in Stage I. They tend to defy and disobey, and are unwilling to accept a will greater than their own. They are extremely egoistic and lack empathy for others. Many criminals are people who have never grown out of Stage I.
Stage II is the stage at which a person has blind faith in authority figures and sees the world as divided simply into good and evil, right and wrong, us and them. Once children learn to obey their parents and other authority figures, often out of fear or shame, they reach Stage II. Many so-called religious people are essentially Stage II people, in the sense that they have blind faith in God, and do not question His existence. With blind faith comes humility and a willingness to obey and serve. The majority of good, law-abiding citizens never move out of Stage II.
Stage III is the stage of scientific skepticism and questioning. A Stage III person does not accept things on faith but only accepts them if convinced logically. Many people working in scientific and technological research are in Stage III. They often reject the existence of spiritual or supernatural forces since these are difficult to measure or prove scientifically. Those who do retain their spiritual beliefs move away from the simple, official doctrines of fundamentalism.
Stage IV is the stage where an individual starts enjoying the mystery and beauty of nature and existence. While retaining skepticism, he starts perceiving grand patterns in nature and develops a deeper understanding of good and evil, forgiveness and mercy, compassion and love. His religiousness and spirituality differ significantly from that of a Stage II person, in the sense that he does not accept things through blind faith or out of fear, but does so because of genuine belief, and he does not judge people harshly or seek to inflict punishment on them for their transgressions. This is the stage of loving others as yourself, losing your attachment to your ego, and forgiving your enemies. Stage IV people are labeled as Mystics.
Stage I people only understand punishment and reward, and have essentially NO capacity for moral reasoning.
In Stage II are fundamentalists who have nearly ZERO intellectual ability to question their beliefs.
In Stage III are many people who consider themselve atheist, as well as the "reasonable" christians, etc...
Stage IV would be saints, yogis, gurus, Aleister Crowley (?)
etc...Because of their extremely limited and narrow understanding, Stage II people actually often consider and label Stage IV people as demons (this was mentioned in Scott's book). Funnily, but appropriately enough, they also consider Stage III people - who are essentially more evolved than they are - to be "sinners destined for hell" because the Stage III people have the courage and capacity to think for themselves (yes, that's a SIN for Stage II people).
Stage II people are often Stage I people who have encountered punishment (not from "god", but from the world at large), e.g. they have managed to thoroughly f-ck up their lives, and realize they do not have the ability to make it on their own. This is why they embrace religious authority blindly. Either that, or they simply do not possess the capacity for self-control themselves and thus believe that strong authority is needed to keep the world from degenerating into selfish chaos. (You frequently hear this in their arguments for why their respective religion/non-religion-that-is-actually-still-a-religion needs to prevail).
Stage II people do not have the freedom that goes with enlightened (to some degree) understanding that Stage III people have and thus envy them and try to label them in a pejorative manner. Very often, you will hear of "christian converts" who were into drugs, etc... before and they now have become fanatical Jesus freaks. Perfect example of a Stage II person. Suddenly this person who cannot even get their own lives straight earlier, now thinks that they are "saved" and special, while the rest of humanity who were perfectly capable of organizing their own lives without creating trouble for others are destined for hell or in some way "unsaved".
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Comments
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Good [email protected]!0
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The last 2 paragraphs explains my problem now with two of my best friends. They spent high school and college basically ****ed up while I managed to organize my life. They both believe that they have turned their lives around and are saved. They also repeatedly nagged me that atheist will go to hell. And they now totally believed in the Bible, although I still don't think they have ever read it. If not for my amusement of their behaviors, I would have been totally p*ssed off of them by now.0
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Stage VIII: The "Trickster". Doesn't care where you go cause he knows you'll end up in the same bin as he will anyways. And where ever he and you may go, he will trick you always, given the opportunity. *ʞıɥ*0
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In mythology, several Trickster characters were a problem even for the Gods. Like the Chinese Monkey King who managed to be handful even for the Jade Emperor (considered the Ultimate Ruler of everything imaginable in Chinese cosmology). Or Loki who deceived and tricked even his fellow gods.caporegime wrote: »Stage VIII: The "Trickster". Doesn't care where you go cause he knows you'll end up in the same bin as he will anyways. And where ever he and you may go, he will trick you always, given the opportunity. *ʞıɥ*0 -
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Frank_Macky wrote: »When I see someone levitate for real, then I'll probably be more inclined to believe that this "stage IV" is something worth aspiring to.
stage 4: the superstitious skeptic.
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Well, not really superstition. Since stage IV claims to be "beyond science" it has to demonstrate powers beyond science's ability to explain as well.stage 4: the superstitious skeptic.
Also, it would be nice if even Randi would validate such demonstrations of levitation, since, as a magician, he can figure out all sorts of trickery that scientists don't seem to catch.
And there's this very serious question here: If science has so many protocols that supposedly prevent false conclusions and interpretations, how come, as Randi has claimed and demonstrated, magicians can still fool them??
Of course, the caveat here is that "Nature", unlike magician conmen, do not seek to actively deceive the scientist, and thus experiments on "passive" nature, coupled with scientific protocols that have evolved over time, can be said to yield very reliable conclusions. But still, it does leave you wondering just how many "scientific conclusions" can be taken as gospel. Continuous questioning of scientific doctrines and open-mindedness is a must.
Personally, I don't necessarily believe that the mechanism of evolution is the last word on explaining the diversity of life around us. I do believe that ID and creationism a bunch of crock - these are not scientific theories at all but a hodgepodge of made-up ideas that were formulated in order to lend support to religious beliefs. But that doesn't mean there are other explanations and hypotheses that may eventually be formulated which can be tested scientifically. The problem is that the debate (in the US at least) has gotten so polarized that there is no room left for other points of view. That is mostly the fault of the creationists/IDers whose patently dishonest actions to promote their pseudoscientific claptrap managed to trigger an emotional (not rational) response from many scientists.0 -
these stages are just states of mind. its not about proving anything.Frank_Macky wrote: »Well, not really superstition. Since stage IV claims to be "beyond science" it has to demonstrate powers beyond science's ability to explain as well.0 -
Ah, but I would beg to argue with that assertion.these stages are just states of mind. its not about proving anything.
Stage III people discover things that Stage II people won't, simply because they have the freedom to ASK QUESTIONS. The answers science has gotten from rational inquiry set the stage for all the high technology we are enjoying today.
So wouldn't it be reasonable to expect that discoveries and understanding that "Stage IV" people have will result in even more sublime demonstrations than Stage III people have managed thus far. Demonstrations of supernatural feats (e.g. called sidhis in yoga) are supposed to be quite commonplace in India.
To me, "states of mind" that are of any real significance should ultimately get translated to practical, "physical" effects.0 -
I can not believe that it is an atheist like Frank Macky who would make a thread on the 4 stages of spiritual journey. I have learned about the 4 spiritual stages thru EWTN, the Catholic TV show. The 4th stage is where most of the church fathers and saints are in the Catholic church. If Ateo will ask me where Calungsod's stage is, I do not know. Maybe he's in stage 2 but when his impending death was too visible or at his arm's length, he decided to make his peace with God so he can enter heaven, like that criminal at Jesus side. Who are we to judge that Calungsod cannot be a saint? Calungsod at the end of his life took the sacrament of confession which had absolved him of all his sins, lucky him. The mere act of cofession though is not a sure ticket to heaven, God sees our heart and mind and judges us accordingly. Calungsod must have made a genuine confession because God accepted him in His kingdom immediately. Father Pio is truly a classic example of a soul and spirit that is in stage 4. When Fr Pio's cardinal punished him and had him stay inside the monastery preventing him from having any public encounter with the parishioners, Fr Pio followed his church leader without voicing any complain. Father Pio stayed out of public's eye for I think 2 or 3 years until his case was revisited by I think John Paul II who realized Father Pio was punished wrongfully. Father Pio during his trying years was visited constantly by the devil, probably moking him that if the church is the true church why would a cardinal do that kind of punishment to him. Father Pio according to the story of his life, took refuge from Mother Mary who Fr Pio claimed is his mother too. Now atheists will ask why God ever allow such a horrible experience to happen to Fr Pio. The same as God had asked Job in the bible, can you do the things that I do? Job's answer was, I can't. We do not see what God sees, we have no right to question His plans because we do not see what God sees, the past..the present and the future.0
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^ actually, there's a stage 5. it is when mystics encounter a dead end with a sign on it saying " wrong turn. pls go back to stage 3." 0
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manubol_rama wrote: »^ actually, there's a stage 5. it is when mystics encounter a dead end with a sign on it saying " wrong turn. pls go back to stage 3."
Then say, "What the heck! I've had it with this sh!t!" 0
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