Is Paul A F*ckfaced Liar?

sakiman

Jesus
Matt 7
Not everyone who says to me "Lord,Lord" will see heaven but the one who does the will of my father in heaven
Matt 12
through your words you will be justified, through your words you will be condemned

James
James 2
A man is justified by works and not by faith only

VS

Paul
Rom 3
a man is justified by faith apart from works of law
Rom 5
we are now justified by his blood
Rom 9
So it doesn't depend on man's will or exertion but on God's mercy
Eph 1
We have redemption using his blood, the forgiveness of our sins, through his grace

---

Jesus
Luk 16
God knows your hearts you who justify yourselves among men because what is rejoiced by men is an abomination in the sight of god

Paul
2Cor 8
We aim at what is honorable in the sight of god but also in the sight of men
Rom 8
repay no one evil but take note of what is noble in the sight of all men

---

Jesus
Mat 23
Do not be called a rabbi bec you have one teacher and you are all brothers
Do not be called leaders bec you only have one leader the christ

Paul
1Cor 12
God appointed first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, etc
2 Tim 1
I was appointed a preacher, apostle and teacher
1Cor 4
you have countless leaders in christ

---

Jesus
Mat 10
You received without paying, give without pay

Paul
1Cor 9
the lord said that those who teach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel (although he has not used this "right")

---

Jesus
Feed the poor
Jesus ate with sinners

Paul
Let the unemployed go hungry because their lazy. That'll teach them a lesson!
Get away from sinners, you will be infected by their sinfulness!

---

Eh peke pala "tong paul na 'toh eh! Peke!

Ateo

Very good collection of juxtaposed verses. In those verses Paul might not have been lying, but he was clearly opposed to Jesus. The term to use is "anti-Christ".

The whole debate of faith vs. works emanated from these differing views between Jesus and James on one side and Paul on the other. The Evangelicals are heavily leaning towards Paul. The Catholics, correctly so, lean towards Jesus. And the atheists are amused by this fight of the denominations.

wimpy_kid

sakiman wrote: »

Jesus
Matt 7
Not everyone who says to me "Lord,Lord" will see heaven but the one who does the will of my father in heaven
Matt 12
through your words you will be justified, through your words you will be condemned

James
James 2
A man is justified by works and not by faith only

VS

Paul
Rom 3
a man is justified by faith apart from works of law
Rom 5
we are now justified by his blood
Rom 9
So it doesn't depend on man's will or exertion but on God's mercy
Eph 1
We have redemption using his blood, the forgiveness of our sins, through his grace

---

Jesus
Luk 16
God knows your hearts you who justify yourselves among men because what is rejoiced by men is an abomination in the sight of god

Paul
2Cor 8
We aim at what is honorable in the sight of god but also in the sight of men
Rom 8
repay no one evil but take note of what is noble in the sight of all men

---

Jesus
Mat 23
Do not be called a rabbi bec you have one teacher and you are all brothers
Do not be called leaders bec you only have one leader the christ

Paul
1Cor 12
God appointed first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, etc
2 Tim 1
I was appointed a preacher, apostle and teacher
1Cor 4
you have countless leaders in christ

---

Jesus
Mat 10
You received without paying, give without pay

Paul
1Cor 9
the lord said that those who teach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel (although he has not used this "right")

---

Jesus
Feed the poor
Jesus ate with sinners

Paul
Let the unemployed go hungry because their lazy. That'll teach them a lesson!
Get away from sinners, you will be infected by their sinfulness!

---

Eh peke pala "tong paul na 'toh eh! Peke!

Sakiman, just wondering what verse did the last part come from. Our christian friends might want to know.

tonton

jmarcko27 wrote: »

Nabasa mo ba yung verses before and after ng mga nabanggit mo? Do you understand their context? I'll just say this again, People will distort verses for their own motive.

tonton

Tagumpay sa Biblia Ministries is a Christian sect that rejects Paul outright.

http://www.thebereans.net/forum2/showthread.php?t=32779

tonton

Ateo wrote: »

Very good collection of juxtaposed verses. In those verses Paul might not have been lying, but he was clearly opposed to Jesus. The term to use is "anti-Christ".

The whole debate of faith vs. works emanated from these differing views between Jesus and James on one side and Paul on the other. The Evangelicals are heavily leaning towards Paul. The Catholics, correctly so, lean towards Jesus. And the atheists are amused by this fight of the denominations.

Ateo, fyi, he is even bolder than Jesus in issuing teachings. Absolutely no fear of God whatsoever.

John 5:19..Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself,...

vs.

1Co 14:37 If any seem to be a prophet or spiritual, let him know the things that I write to you, that they are the commandments of the Lord. Really?

1Co 7:12 For to the rest I speak, not the Lord. If any brother hath a wife that believeth not and she consent to dwell with him: let him not put her away.
1Co 7:13 And if any woman hath a husband that believeth not and he consent to dwell with her: let her not put away her husband.

and..

1Co 7:25 Now, concerning virgins, I have no commandment of the Lord: but I give counsel, as having obtained mercy of the Lord, to be faithful.
1Co 7:26 I think ( he is not sure??) therefore that this is good for the present necessity: that it is good for a man so to be.
1Co 7:27 Art thou bound to a wife? Seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? Seek not a wife.
1Co 7:28 But if thou take a wife, thou hast not sinned. And if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned: nevertheless, such shall have tribulation of the flesh. But I spare you.

sakiman

does paul bother you or are your minds already fixed that paul is a genuine apostle?

bump

Ateo

I don't think that Paul is a genuine apostle. If Christ was indeed some sort of prophet or son of God, then Paul is most surely the prophesied anti-Christ. He implanted himself very early on and made sure that the message is totally destroyed.

I credited Paul for my conversion to atheism. I used to think that the Bible was an inspired book. Then, slowly, I noticed that Paul lied, boasted, distorted messages, and did a lot of hideous things against the message of Jesus. Not that Jesus' messages are particularly divine, but in most instances they are truly overshadowed and made inoperable by Paul's. My rejection of the Bible -- Exodus, Gospel, etc. -- came much later. It was Paul that worried me first.

mongimons

Ateo wrote: »

I don't think that Paul is a genuine apostle. If Christ was indeed some sort of prophet or son of God, then Paul is most surely the prophesied anti-Christ. He implanted himself very early on and made sure that the message is totally destroyed.

I credited Paul for my conversion to atheism. I used to think that the Bible was an inspired book. Then, slowly, I noticed that Paul lied, boasted, distorted messages, and did a lot of hideous things against the message of Jesus. Not that Jesus' messages are particularly divine, but in most instances they are truly overshadowed and made inoperable by Paul's. My rejection of the Bible -- Exodus, Gospel, etc. -- came much later. It was Paul that worried me first.

is it?

2 Pedro
14 Kaya nga, mga minamahal, yamang kayo'y nagsisipaghintay ng mga bagay na ito, ay pagsikapan ninyong masumpungan kayo sa kapayapaan, na walang dungis at walang kapintasan sa paningin niya.
15 At inyong ariin na ang pagpapahinuhod ng ating Panginoon ay pagliligtas; na gaya rin naman ni Pablo, na ating minamahal na kapatid, na ayon sa karunungang ibinigay sa kaniya, ay sinulatan kayo;
16 Gayon din naman sa lahat ng kaniyang mga sulat, na doo'y sinasalita ang mga bagay na ito; na doo'y may ilang bagay na mahirap unawain, na isinisinsay ng mga di nakaaalam at ng mga walang tiyaga, na gaya rin naman ng kanilang ginagawa sa ibang mga kasulatan, sa ikapapahamak din nila.

sinungaling ba si Pablo o wala lang talagang alam at tyaga ang nag babasa?

Ateo

Nobody knows who wrote 2 Peter. What we now know is that it was not the Apostle Peter. So when Paul was praised by "Peter" in 2 Peter, I suspect it was actually Paul who inserted that passage in 2 Peter.

mongimons

Ateo wrote: »

Nobody knows who wrote 2 Peter. What we now know is that it was not the Apostle Peter. So when Paul was praised by "Peter" in 2 Peter, I suspect it was actually Paul who inserted that passage in 2 Peter.

anong proof mo?

Fenix

Sya ba yung nag-umpisa sa pagkakadapa, tapos nagkaron na ng visions hanggang sa Revelation?

Ateo

mongimons wrote: »

anong proof mo?

After the orthodoxy suppressed all dissident views (e.g., the Arians, Gnostics, etc.), I don't have a single iota of proof; this is just delicious speculation. Look, Peter and Paul were fighting each other throughout the Bible. They were throwing anathemas at each other and it took an entire Jerusalem Council to resolve their conflicts. They never thought highly of each other... then, suddenly 2Peter came along. That book has no known authorship but curiously the book, attributed to Peter, is very positive of Paul. Go figure.

Pyros

Ateo wrote: »

... Go figure.

Ang pinagtatalunan nilang madalas ay tungkol sa mga tulian. Sino ba sa kanilang dalawa ang hindi tuli?

Ateo

Pyros wrote: »

Ang pinagtatalunan nilang madalas ay tungkol sa mga tulian. Sino ba sa kanilang dalawa ang hindi tuli?

Tuli silang dalawa. But Peter was parochial while Paul was cosmopolitan. Paul was seeing that the people from the entire Greco-Roman civilization were target recruits. The problem, of course, was that the original Christian sect -- which was just a heretical Judaic sect -- required circumcision just like Judaism. But the Romans were not circumcised; and circumcising adults was risky and definitely unpalatable to the recruits. So, Paul addressed this as a mere recruitment problem and decided to reject the Jewish God's express command of circumcision and proceeded to declare that circumcision was henceforth optional.

tonton

Tuli o supot. Why are those trivial things important for the all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving, all-merciful, all-encompassing God?? ..and going to church on Sundays, sacrificing animals, healthy testicles, foreskins, virgins, haircuts, head covers, uncut beard, and so on.... This is definitely a sign of alien intelligence.

mongimons

Ateo wrote: »

After the orthodoxy suppressed all dissident views (e.g., the Arians, Gnostics, etc.), I don't have a single iota of proof; this is just delicious speculation. Look, Peter and Paul were fighting each other throughout the Bible. They were throwing anathemas at each other and it took an entire Jerusalem Council to resolve their conflicts. They never thought highly of each other... then, suddenly 2Peter came along. That book has no known authorship but curiously the book, attributed to Peter, is very positive of Paul. Go figure.

nakakita ka lang ng ilang pag tatalo, all throughout the bible na? ano to speculation mo na naman?

clearly, nakasulat naman sa gawa si Jesus mismo ang nagsabi:
Gawa
11 At sinabi sa kaniya ng Panginoon, Magtindig ka, at pumaroon sa lansangang tinatawag na Matuwid, at ipagtanong mo sa bahay ni Judas ang isa na nagngangalang Saulo, lalaking taga Tarso: sapagka't narito, siya'y nananalangin;
12 At nakita niya ang isang lalaking nagngangalang Ananias na pumapasok, at ipinapatong ang kaniyang mga kamay sa kaniya, upang tanggapin niya ang kaniyang paningin.
13 Nguni't sumagot si Ananias, Panginoon, nabalitaan ko sa marami ang tungkol sa taong ito, kung gaano karaming kasamaan ang ginawa niya sa iyong mga banal sa Jerusalem:
14 At dito siya'y may kapahintulutan ng mga pangulong saserdote na gapusin ang lahat ng mga nagsisitawag sa iyong pangalan.
15 Datapuwa't sinabi sa kaniya ng Panginoon, Pumaroon ka: sapagka't siya'y sisidlang hirang sa akin, upang dalhin ang aking pangalan sa harapan ng mga Gentil at ng mga hari, at ng mga anak ni Israel:
16 Sapagka't sa kaniya'y aking ipakikilala kung gaano karaming mga bagay ang dapat niyang tiisin dahil sa aking pangalan.

kaso baka sabihin mo na naman "delicious speculation" mo na lagay din ito ni Pablo
Pero clearly naman na may authority si Pablo. E2 ang na figure ko (sa akin lang naman ito) :
Isa ka sa mga taong walang tyaga at hirap makaunawa sa mga salita ni Pablo. and since nakalagay na un sa 2 Pedro, ang escape goat ay sabihing lagay lang iyon ni Pablo. Then i question na ang authority ni Pablo. Problema lang, di mo nalalaman ang sinasabi mo

tonton

mongimons wrote: »

nakakita ka lang ng ilang pag tatalo, all throughout the bible na? ano to speculation mo na naman?

clearly, nakasulat naman sa gawa si Jesus mismo ang nagsabi:
Gawa
11 At sinabi sa kaniya ng Panginoon, Magtindig ka, at pumaroon sa lansangang tinatawag na Matuwid, at ipagtanong mo sa bahay ni Judas ang isa na nagngangalang Saulo, lalaking taga Tarso: sapagka't narito, siya'y nananalangin;
12 At nakita niya ang isang lalaking nagngangalang Ananias na pumapasok, at ipinapatong ang kaniyang mga kamay sa kaniya, upang tanggapin niya ang kaniyang paningin.
13 Nguni't sumagot si Ananias, Panginoon, nabalitaan ko sa marami ang tungkol sa taong ito, kung gaano karaming kasamaan ang ginawa niya sa iyong mga banal sa Jerusalem:
14 At dito siya'y may kapahintulutan ng mga pangulong saserdote na gapusin ang lahat ng mga nagsisitawag sa iyong pangalan.
15 Datapuwa't sinabi sa kaniya ng Panginoon, Pumaroon ka: sapagka't siya'y sisidlang hirang sa akin, upang dalhin ang aking pangalan sa harapan ng mga Gentil at ng mga hari, at ng mga anak ni Israel:
16 Sapagka't sa kaniya'y aking ipakikilala kung gaano karaming mga bagay ang dapat niyang tiisin dahil sa aking pangalan.

kaso baka sabihin mo na naman "delicious speculation" mo na lagay din ito ni Pablo
Pero clearly naman na may authority si Pablo. E2 ang na figure ko (sa akin lang naman ito) :
Isa ka sa mga taong walang tyaga at hirap makaunawa sa mga salita ni Pablo. and since nakalagay na un sa 2 Pedro, ang escape goat ay sabihing lagay lang iyon ni Pablo. Then i question na ang authority ni Pablo. Problema lang, di mo nalalaman ang sinasabi mo

Born agen ka ba?

mongimons

Ateo wrote: »

Tuli silang dalawa. But Peter was parochial while Paul was cosmopolitan. Paul was seeing that the people from the entire Greco-Roman civilization were target recruits. The problem, of course, was that the original Christian sect -- which was just a heretical Judaic sect -- required circumcision just like Judaism. But the Romans were not circumcised; and circumcising adults was risky and definitely unpalatable to the recruits. So, Paul addressed this as a mere recruitment problem and decided to reject the Jewish God's express command of circumcision and proceeded to declare that circumcision was henceforth optional.

Problema kc napaghahalo ang utos para sa Israel sa panahon ni Moises at utos sa panahon ni Jesus. Gaya naman ng ikapu. wala na ang pag iikapu sa panahong kristyano.

tonton

mongimons wrote: »

Problema kc napaghahalo ang utos para sa Israel sa panahon ni Moises at utos sa panahon ni Jesus. Gaya naman ng ikapu. wala na ang pag iikapu sa panahong kristyano.

Bakit mo nasabi yan?

mongimons

tonton wrote: »

Born agen ka ba?