Any philosophical atheist here?

acer2009

Any philosophical atheists here? Really, not the edgy 14 year old atheist because he finds it "cool" to rebel, nor the person who became atheist because he found out about Dawkins nor the person who became atheist because he found some religions which swindle money from the flock then decided that he abhors all religions together.

What I'm asking for is if there are any atheists here who became atheist because after some rationalizing, philosophizing, and logical deduction, he came to the conclusion there is no God. If that is the case, please bring forth your evidence using reason, science and logic that there is no God. And don't give me bullcrap about "we're just agnostics so the burden of proof is not with us" argument because you're just then trying to divert away from the question and you'll just show to us faithful that you really have nothing to support your position and arguments for atheism.

The reason I'm asking this is because it seems most atheists here seem to fit the typical aspergers atheist who found out something in the internet then decided that "hey, this guy is a biologist and people who believe in him are cool. Therefore, I will also become atheist because I will also become cool. Hey, am I hip yet?"

manubol_rama

sorry to disappoint you, bro. but i'm not one of them. i am just an ordinary nonbeliever who hasn't really given atheism much thought. yet i persist on this view because i havent met yet the perfect believer who will deliver to me a knockdown argument that the judeo-christian god does exist.

just the same, i would want to keep this thread open until such a philosopher atheist comes your way to tackle the finer points of atheism.

me, i just woke up one day and said to myself, "what kind of an omniscient and omnipotent god would allow evil to plague his creation?"

whatever the answer is, his kind does not deserve any worshiping.

wimpy_kid

What if we're atheists just because we're not convinced with your fairy tales? What then?

Ateo

Not me. Philosophy was boring. Finance, Math, History, Travel and Sex preoccupied me in college. I tolerated Philo101 because I realize that some logic skills are needed to survive. The philosophies themselves, they all sounded Greek to me.

My journey to atheism started with Brother Ely's TV war with the INC, where I learned how to find verses in the Bible. Then I started reading the Bible. Then, I was shocked. Then I reflected on the issues and realized that Moses and Paul were delusional tricksters. Then one day a friend casually asked me if I was an atheist. I never thought of me as such before but on that question I answered, "yes". I took note of that date when I admitted I became one.

Cool? I don't know why people think atheists are cool or trying to be cool. In the Philippines, it is a lot of hassles. My mom found out and got hyper on me; but we are okay now. I studied in Catholic schools and all my friends and teachers are either uninformed or raising an eyebrow on my atheism. My best friend in the Philippines kept on asking me all stupid questions about atheism (what tragedy in life made me reject God, etc.). It is a lot of hassles to be an atheist, BUT there is intellectual and moral integrity in me now. There is good consonance between my understanding of the world and my moral values.

acer2009

wimpy_kid wrote: »

What if we're atheists just because we're not convinced with your fairy tales? What then?

Which proves point number 1 that most atheists here are just kids who find it "cool" to be atheist. Why atheism exactly? And what made you come to the conclusion that the material world is all there is to it?

manubol_rama wrote: »

yet i persist on this view because i havent met yet the perfect believer who will deliver to me a knockdown argument that the judeo-christian god does exist.

And said God does not exist because no perfect believer has answered it yet? You do realize this is the genetic fallacy, correct?

manubol_rama wrote: »

me, i just woke up one day and said to myself, "what kind of an omniscient and omnipotent god would allow evil to plague his creation?"

The kind who would show his creation just whose way is right - ours or His. So far, we have seen the fruits of our own way: war, death, disease, misery and sorrow.

Ateo wrote: »

My journey to atheism started with Brother Ely's TV war with the INC, where I learned how to find verses in the Bible. Then I started reading the Bible. Then, I was shocked. Then I reflected on the issues and realized that Moses and Paul were delusional tricksters. Then one day a friend casually asked me if I was an atheist. I never thought of me as such before but on that question I answered, "yes". I took note of that date when I admitted I became one.

So in short, you just proved point number three in my post that you became "atheist" because of some insane idea that religion is just there to swindle the masses. It seems you have nothing intellectual to base your belief on but in the bandwagon. So how are you any different from the typical atheist response that "you just follow your religion because your parents were born with it?"

acer2009

So far in this thread, people became atheist because:

1) He hasn't met the perfect person to defend his faith. Since he hasn't met such a person, he became an atheist.
2) Edgy 14 year old who finds it cool to rebel.
3) Guy who spends too much drinking and having sex and proves my point that he became atheist because he thought all religions are there to swindle the masses.

This thread has been disappointing so far. I was hoping atheists would prove me wrong with their "intellectual, scientific and logical" replies considering they pride themselves as the paragons of wisdom and intelligence. It seems to me they are no different from the people of faith they despise. I guess we can throw the idea that atheists are uber smart people who knows all the answers to the trash bin.

tonton

I believe in God but I always side with the atheists against christian arguments. I would be an atheist as far as xtianity is concerned. It's teachings are just too absurd, contradictory and 'fishy'. It's a belief system that's heavily sugarcoated, hence it's popularity.

Ateo

acer2009 wrote: »

So in short, you just proved point number three in my post that you became "atheist" because of some insane idea that religion is just there to swindle the masses. It seems you have nothing intellectual to base your belief on but in the bandwagon. So how are you any different from the typical atheist response that "you just follow your religion because your parents were born with it?"

Yep, you have proven your point. I did not know of any atheistic philosophy when I became an atheist. Don't know of any even now. Sure, I've read some but only in a way I read other books -- just to relax.

I hope this admission does not detract from my being a legit atheist. My sister would not be able to find Genesis 1:1, much less heard about ontological arguments, but I consider her a legit and devout Christian.

acer2009

Ateo wrote: »

Yep, you have proven your point. I did not know of any atheistic philosophy when I became an atheist. Don't know of any even now.

In short, you have nothing intellectual to base your disbelief on. You cannot even disprove using sound arguments that there is no God. That's really rich when I specifically recall you in other threads insulting and deriding theists for believing any Diety when it appears you have no arguments yourself.

Ateo wrote: »

I hope this admission does not detract from my being a legit atheist.

But it does. An atheist would claim I would have to prove the existence of God. Now the shoe is on the other foot. You just cannot shift goalposts and hide under the skirt of agnosticism because you have no arguments to base your ideology on.

Ateo wrote: »

My sister would not be able to find Genesis 1:1, much less heard about ontological arguments, but I consider her a legit and devout Christian.

See: No True Scotsman

And here I was ready to be swayed by the atheists and be blown away by their answers. Looks like atheists aren't the cut out critical thinkers they proclaim themselves to be.

Ateo

Well, if you cannot accept that I am an atheist, then think of me as a backsliding Christian. That is fine with me. Just don't try to "save" me now.

You were not listening to me. I did not ask my sister what is the philosophical basis of her beliefs. I consider her as a legit Christian.

manubol_rama

acer2009 wrote: »

And said God does not exist because no perfect believer has answered it yet? You do realize this is the genetic fallacy, correct?

it's not so bad a fallacy as the ones found in the bible, eh?

i just think it's utterly stupid to force yourself to believe in something you honestly believe does not exist in the first place. this position does not necessarily disprove altogether god's existence, i am well aware of that. that is why i am willing to wait for that perfect believer who can convince me that his bible god does exist.

The kind who would show his creation just whose way is right - ours or His. So far, we have seen the fruits of our own way: war, death, disease, misery and sorrow.

not all evil is caused by humanity. to be more accurate, not all evil suffered by an individual is caused by his personal acts.

acer2009

Ateo wrote: »

Well, if you cannot accept that I am an atheist, then think of me as a backsliding Christian. That is fine with me. Just don't try to "save" me now.

Oh, but trust me, I can readily accept that you are an atheist but it seems you have a hard time grasping the irony in all of this: The idea of this thread is to bring out what sort of people make up the new atheist movement. It seems they are made up of people who are aspergers and don't really have that nifty intelligence they brag about. That kind of discredits the whole idea that atheists are smart people.

But then again, this kind of proves me right that you atheists are the opposite of smart so I expect backlash over this.

Ateo wrote: »

You were not listening to me. I did not ask my sister what is the philosophical basis of her beliefs. I consider her as a legit Christian.

Going by conversation and general flow of this thread, I was getting the impression that your sister has no defense for the Christian faith so that makes her beliefs false. Anyway, I really don't care about what your sister holds when we're talking about atheists and their foolishness.

Ateo

acer2009 wrote: »

Oh, but trust me, I can readily accept that you are an atheist but it seems you have a hard time grasping the irony in all of this: The idea of this thread is to bring out what sort of people make up the new atheist movement. It seems they are made up of people who are aspergers and don't really have that nifty intelligence they brag about. That kind of discredits the whole idea that atheists are smart people.

But then again, this kind of proves me right that you atheists are the opposite of smart so I expect backlash over this.



Going by conversation and general flow of this thread, I was getting the impression that your sister has no defense for the Christian faith so that makes her beliefs false. Anyway, I really don't care about what your sister holds when we're talking about atheists and their foolishness.

No backlash. Not all atheists are smart. We are like any slices of humanity -- we are diverse.

And, yes, let us forget my sister's religion. I am an atheist. I don't know atheist philosophy. Let us live with that, okay?

A person does not become smart because he claims so, but in the way he lives his life.

By the way, why are you asking around for philosophical atheists? You have been debating with whom I would consider as a philosophical atheist -- Frank_Macky. And you were not doing very well. So, are you looking around for another atheist to converse with.

acer2009

manubol_rama wrote: »

it's not so bad a fallacy as the ones found in the bible, eh?

Your logic:

I call out that you have a pimple on your face
You say I also have a pimple so that removes the pimple on your face.

I'm having a hard time taking you seriously when all you do is make Tu Quoque fallacies.

manubol_rama wrote: »

i just think it's utterly stupid to force yourself to believe in something you honestly believe does not exist in the first place.

Of course it's stupid. It's also equally stupid to force yourself to hold that something does not exist just because you believe it does not exist. But then again, I really didn't expect anything from atheists in this thread, especially after the first three replies.

manubol_rama wrote: »

this position does not necessarily disprove altogether god's existence, i am well aware of that. that is why i am willing to wait for that perfect believer who can convince me that his bible god does exist.

So you're going to switch under the tactic of agnosticism now? If you were truly honest about your views, you would simply say "I don't know" instead of "I don't know if God exists but I will believe he doesn't exist anyway". Face it, you're just copping out because you have ZERO arguments for what you hold.

manubol_rama wrote: »

not all evil is caused by humanity. to be more accurate, not all evil suffered by an individual is caused by his personal acts.

lel.

Humanity has waged war, raped, killed, stolen and destroyed to satisfy his lusts of the flesh. Yeah, that's not humanity's fault.

Ateo wrote: »

A person does not become smart because he claims so, but in the way he lives his life.

But most atheists do that all the time. Are you now turning a blind eye to it because it paints a negative picture that most atheists are arrogant doofuses?

Ateo wrote: »

You have been debating with whom I would consider as a philosophical atheist -- Frank_Macky. And you were not doing very well. So, are you looking around for another atheist to converse with.

I wouldn't consider him a philosophical atheist. He is a satanist and has implied so in this thread: http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?t=594881

Also, if you think Frank_Macky is the best "atheist" RoT has got, then your standards must be pretty low when all he does is curse, whine, and ad hom all Christians he encounters. But then again, considering you're one of those atheists who belong in the bandwagon section, I'm not really surprised.

Ateo

Arrogance is not the exclusive domain of atheists. You can't imagine how many of my Christian friends offered to save me after I told them I am an atheist. Some tried to save me through FB Gospel verses. Arrogance runs across beliefs.

I am not saying that Frank_Macky is the best. There are many, many, many excellent atheists I know in this board. I thought you were asking for a "philosophical" atheist; then, that's him. He is not best just because he is philosophical. Atheism is not measured by philosophy.

wimpy_kid

acer2009 wrote: »

Which proves point number 1 that most atheists here are just kids who find it "cool" to be atheist. Why atheism exactly? And what made you come to the conclusion that the material world is all there is to it?



And said God does not exist because no perfect believer has answered it yet? You do realize this is the genetic fallacy, correct?



The kind who would show his creation just whose way is right - ours or His. So far, we have seen the fruits of our own way: war, death, disease, misery and sorrow.



So in short, you just proved point number three in my post that you became "atheist" because of some insane idea that religion is just there to swindle the masses. It seems you have nothing intellectual to base your belief on but in the bandwagon. So how are you any different from the typical atheist response that "you just follow your religion because your parents were born with it?"

Yeeeah right. So simply not being convinced by superstition automatically makes you a 14 year old kid who wants to be "cool". Nice analogy. NOT.

acer2009

Ateo wrote: »

Arrogance is not the exclusive domain of atheists. You can't imagine how many of my Christian friends offered to save me after I told them I am an atheist. Some tried to save me through FB Gospel verses. Arrogance runs across beliefs.

How is offering you salvation "arrogance"? You must have confused atheists being "in your face" and painting all believers as stupid idiots versus a group of people who are doing all they can to lend a helping hand to a brother in need as arrogance, even though misplaced in your atheist mind. Have you atheists really become this degenerate to call good evil and evil good?

Anyway, I see this tactic of atheists shifting goalposts again when called on their arrogance so I'm calling you out on it. You seem unable to grasp that most atheists act like arrogant doofuses then desperately try to hide it when called out on it. Must be cognitive dissonance at work.

Ateo wrote: »

I am not saying that Frank_Macky is the best. There are many, many, many excellent atheists I know in this board. I thought you were asking for a "philosophical" atheist; then, that's him. He is not best just because he is philosophical. Atheism is not measured by philosophy.

I think you also confused being philosophical with spouting gibberish. And as pointed earlier, he isn't really an atheist, he's a satanist as he praises Aleister Crowley and his "do what thou wilt" philosophy. You do realize who Aleister Crowley is, right?

acer2009

wimpy_kid wrote: »

Yeeeah right. So simply not being convinced by superstition automatically makes you a 14 year old kid who wants to be "cool". Nice analogy. NOT.

But of course you are. You have not given any logic for your disbelief, you have not even given any arguments and proof why God does not exist. All you have is "MUH FAIRY TALES" for your rhetoric. How are you not an edgy 14 year old?

wimpy_kid

Ateo wrote: »

Arrogance is not the exclusive domain of atheists. You can't imagine how many of my Christian friends offered to save me after I told them I am an atheist. Some tried to save me through FB Gospel verses. Arrogance runs across beliefs.

I am not saying that Frank_Macky is the best. There are many, many, many excellent atheists I know in this board. I thought you were asking for a "philosophical" atheist; then, that's him. He is not best just because he is philosophical. Atheism is not measured by philosophy.

What would it take to make this theists realize that atheism is just lack of belief in gods? No deep philosophical reasoning is required, none of that theist BS that they seem to well fed with. They don't seem to be bothered by the fact that they don't need deep philosophical shenanigans for not believing in all the other gods and myths that society has made up eh?

Ateo

acer2009 wrote: »

lol, Frank Macky confirmed for degenerate satanist. And people claimed I was just crazy for labeling him as such because he coined the term "xtian". As I have pointed out before, only satanists, luciferians and wiccans use the term 'xtian' as a derogatory remark for Christians (like nigger for blacks)

I checked the thread where you had an argument with Macky. You should not deduce if he is a Satanist or not. Just ask him. He is an open person and will tell you. He never told me that he is.

Now, Macky's use of "xtians" for Christians is theologically and historically correct. The "X" is, of course, the Greek letter "Chi" which is the first letter of the word "Christ", thus it symbolized Christ himself. Its first historical use is said to be by Constantine who saw the cross on the sky (actually, the chi) and ordered that it becomes the symbol of his administration. The chi, of course, is reminiscent of the cross. It is still with us today through the chi-rho used in Christian symbolism.

Thus, Xmas and Xtian are valid and respectful spellings. Macky is not being satanist. He just knows his Christian history and symbolism.

wimpy_kid

acer2009 wrote: »

But of course you are. You have not given any logic for your disbelief, you have not even given any arguments and proof why God does not exist. All you have is "MUH FAIRY TALES" for your rhetoric. How are you not an edgy 14 year old?

Okaaaay. I have a red dragon in my room that breathes spirit flames. He is both red, and invisible. Do you believe me?