Nasaan ang secta mo ng pinakakain sa Leon sa Roma ang mga Catolicong Cristiano?
ElCid
Roman Catholic
Ignatius of Antioch
Ignatius, bishop of Antioch, was martyred probably in 113 A.D. at the beginning of the second century. He was born about 30 A.D. and was reputed to be the child in Matthew 18:2, 3,
2 And he called a child to Himself and set him before them, 3 and said, Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven.
As a child, he was also one of the 500 witnesses (1 Cor. 15:6) who saw Jesus in the flesh after His resurrection. In his letter to the Smyrneans, Ignatius writes in the longer version of chapter III,
Ignatius writes a lot to prove the major issue of the day, that Jesus had indeed come in the flesh. In this he reflects the concerns of the Apostle John, who was his primary teacher and mentor.
Ignatius also gave instruction to the believers in chapter VIII about order in the church:
Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.
In chapter IX, he continues, saying,
It is well to reverence both God and the bishop. He who honours the bishop has been honoured by God; he who does anything without the knowledge of the bishop, does [in reality] serve the devil.
In addition, there is another written by his disciples who accompanied him to Rome when Emperor Trajan sent him there to be fed to the lions. It is called the Martyrdom of Ignatius. It begins this way:
Then Trajan pronounced sentence as follows: We command that Ignatius, who affirms that he carries about within him Him that was crucified, be bound by soldiers, and carried to the great [city] Rome, there to be devoured by the beasts, for the gratification of the people.' When the holy martyr heard this sentence, he cried out with joy, I thank thee, O Lord, that Thou hast honoured me with a perfect love towards Thee, and hast made me to be bound with iron chains like Thy Apostle Paul'.
Ignatius then, guarded by 10 soldiers whom he called his leopards, was sent to Rome where he was devoured by lions. Only a few bones remained to be buried, for we read,
For only the harder portions of his holy remains were left, which were conveyed to Antioch and wrapped in linen, as an inestimable treasure left to the holy Church by the grace which was in the martyr... Now these things took place on the thirteenth day before the Kalends of January, that is, on the twentieth of December.
Meanwhile, about the time of Ignatius' martyrdom, Pliny the Younger (governor of Pontus and Bithynia in the north part of Asia Minor) wrote his famous letter to Trajan (111-113 A.D.) asking him how to proceed in prosecuting Christians. He had tortured two deaconesses, he reported, but found no serious conspiracy among the Christians. Trajan wrote back:
You observed proper procedure, my dear Pliny, in sifting the cases of those who had been denounced to you as Christians. For it is not possible to lay down any general rule to serve as a kind of fixed standard. They are not to be sought out; if they are denounced and proved guilty, they are to be punished, with this reservation, that whoever denies that he is a Christian and really proves it--that is, by worshiping our godseven though he was under suspicion in the past, shall obtain pardon through repentance.
http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/COLDFUSION/Chapter.cfm?CID=122
Ignatius, bishop of Antioch, was martyred probably in 113 A.D. at the beginning of the second century. He was born about 30 A.D. and was reputed to be the child in Matthew 18:2, 3,
2 And he called a child to Himself and set him before them, 3 and said, Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven.
As a child, he was also one of the 500 witnesses (1 Cor. 15:6) who saw Jesus in the flesh after His resurrection. In his letter to the Smyrneans, Ignatius writes in the longer version of chapter III,
Ignatius writes a lot to prove the major issue of the day, that Jesus had indeed come in the flesh. In this he reflects the concerns of the Apostle John, who was his primary teacher and mentor.
Ignatius also gave instruction to the believers in chapter VIII about order in the church:
Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.
In chapter IX, he continues, saying,
It is well to reverence both God and the bishop. He who honours the bishop has been honoured by God; he who does anything without the knowledge of the bishop, does [in reality] serve the devil.
In addition, there is another written by his disciples who accompanied him to Rome when Emperor Trajan sent him there to be fed to the lions. It is called the Martyrdom of Ignatius. It begins this way:
Then Trajan pronounced sentence as follows: We command that Ignatius, who affirms that he carries about within him Him that was crucified, be bound by soldiers, and carried to the great [city] Rome, there to be devoured by the beasts, for the gratification of the people.' When the holy martyr heard this sentence, he cried out with joy, I thank thee, O Lord, that Thou hast honoured me with a perfect love towards Thee, and hast made me to be bound with iron chains like Thy Apostle Paul'.
Ignatius then, guarded by 10 soldiers whom he called his leopards, was sent to Rome where he was devoured by lions. Only a few bones remained to be buried, for we read,
For only the harder portions of his holy remains were left, which were conveyed to Antioch and wrapped in linen, as an inestimable treasure left to the holy Church by the grace which was in the martyr... Now these things took place on the thirteenth day before the Kalends of January, that is, on the twentieth of December.
Meanwhile, about the time of Ignatius' martyrdom, Pliny the Younger (governor of Pontus and Bithynia in the north part of Asia Minor) wrote his famous letter to Trajan (111-113 A.D.) asking him how to proceed in prosecuting Christians. He had tortured two deaconesses, he reported, but found no serious conspiracy among the Christians. Trajan wrote back:
You observed proper procedure, my dear Pliny, in sifting the cases of those who had been denounced to you as Christians. For it is not possible to lay down any general rule to serve as a kind of fixed standard. They are not to be sought out; if they are denounced and proved guilty, they are to be punished, with this reservation, that whoever denies that he is a Christian and really proves it--that is, by worshiping our godseven though he was under suspicion in the past, shall obtain pardon through repentance.
http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/COLDFUSION/Chapter.cfm?CID=122
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Comments
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I loved the Catholic Church, until it went Roman....0
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SmartDessa wrote: »I loved the Catholic Church, until it went Roman....
ows? I am a Roman Catholic and so they say....Protestant much?, will you marry me? I am a bachelor, btw. do you know history? haba ng buhok mo ah....0 -
Catholic is supposed to be universal and one, by saying you are Roman Catholic then you divide yourself from other christian.
heck I even doubt you are Roman so why would you call yourself Roman Catholic?0 -
SmartDessa wrote: »I loved the Catholic Church, until it went Roman....
thats very catchy!SmartDessa wrote: »Catholic is supposed to be universal and one, by saying you are Roman Catholic then you divide yourself from other christian.
heck I even doubt you are Roman so why would you call yourself Roman Catholic?
oo nga naman.
pati ba naman roman imperialism eh sinakop ang christianismo.0 -
si Ignatius of Antioch, ang subject ng thread, ang unang gumamit ng pangalang Catholic para sa church. Hindi sya Roman.
yung "Roman", nadagdag lang 16-17 century yata para makilala na iba sila sa Anglican at Orthodox. So bale, hindi na sila "ONE Catholic".
i think thats the smartest argument i ever heard from you.0 -
i think thats the smartest argument i ever heard from you.
o ayan ka na naman. susubukan mo na naman ako tapos ilang post pa lang asar talo ka na. hindi moa abot ang level ko balikan mo na lang ang mga Catholics at Muslim. ayaw na kita patulan kasi i hate to see a grown man cry nyahahaha.0 -
^ haay gadmoon, ikaw na ngang pinuri ikaw pang galit.
papuri ba yun? hindi halata
kung honest ka at papuri nga yun, aba may problema ka sa katagang "ever". wag mo na kayang gamitin? mukhang hindi mo talos kung papano sya gagamitin, aralin mo kaya muna tapos mag aral ka din ng GMRC nyahahaha.o ayan ka na naman. susubukan mo na naman ako tapos ilang post pa lang asar talo ka na. hindi moa abot ang level ko balikan mo na lang ang mga Catholics at Muslim. ayaw na kita patulan kasi i hate to see a grown man cry nyahahaha.i think thats the smartest argument i ever heard from you.0 -
The article does not support your contention in favor of the Roman Catholic Church. There is a distinction between the True Church and organized sects. Meaning that, while a member of an organized sect can belong to the True Church, it doesn't follow that a mere organized sect is the True Church.It is obvious that Ignatius did not understand the difference between the organized church and the True Church. But we cannot single him out for criticism, since no one appeared to disagree with him. His ideas might be valid as long as the bishop himself is serving God, rather than himself.
Isn't it better to say the martyrs belonged to the True Church, rather than claim all the credit for Roman Catholics? Tradition according to Roman Catholics. Where does it say tradition will be preserved from corruption until the end?0 -
The article does not support your contention in favor of the Roman Catholic Church. There is a distinction between the True Church and organized sects. Meaning that, while a member of an organized sect can belong to the True Church, it doesn't follow that a mere organized sect is the True Church.
I never mentioned the roman catholic church although the Roman Catholic Church is the CATHOLIC CHURCH since the Catholic Church in the East has identified themselves as Orthodox Church.
And the article writer's support isn't sought for in the first place but merely the 'facts' in the article stripped of the opinion of the writer. The writer actually is a 'hostile witness' since his appeal to history goes against the denial of many evangelicals/protestants regarding the catholic church's existence in the early centuries of christianity prior to Emperor Constantine's legalization of cristianity in the 4th century.Isn't it better to say the martyrs belonged to the True Church, rather than claim all the credit for Roman Catholics?
The true church is of course both visible and invisible and one of it's manifestations is the catholic church and the church could rightfully claim that it had martyrs during the roman empire's persecution of christians during the early centuries of christianity. Although we do concede that membership in the church alone does not guarantee salvation, however, the church can vouch for the fullness and apostolicity of its teaching.Tradition according to Roman Catholics. Where does it say tradition will be preserved from corruption until the end?
Irrelevant to the thread topic. Again, where is your church at the time when catholic christians were being fed to the lions in rome? We have catholics being fed to the lions during the early centuries of christianity according to an evangelical/protestant source, how about protestants and evangelicals?
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yung "Roman", nadagdag lang 16-17 century yata para makilala na iba sila sa Anglican at Orthodox. So bale, hindi na sila "ONE Catholic".
Actually, derogatory term yan used by Anglicans since they see themselves also as "Catholic". By adding the word "Roman", they try to justify that the Church in Rome is only Roman and not universal, or does not represent Christianity as a whole. Ironically, most Catholics now accept the term. Sort of like the word 'Christian' was also derogatory when first used.0 -
It'is obvious that you were elevating the Roman Catholic Church since, a, you asked forumers to identify their denominations' martyrs during the Roman persecutions while assuming the martyrs were exclusively 'Catholic'; and, b, apparently you're a Filipino.I never mentioned the roman catholic church although the Roman Catholic Church is the CATHOLIC CHURCH since the Catholic Church in the East has identified themselves as Orthodox Church.
The Orthodox Catholic Church also calls itself, er, Catholic in its full name.
And in stripping that opinion by omitting it from the article as posted, aren't you substituting yours?And the article writer's support isn't sought for in the first place but merely the 'facts' in the article stripped of the opinion of the writer. The writer actually is a 'hostile witness' since his appeal to history goes against the denial of many evangelicals/protestants regarding the catholic church's existence in the early centuries of christianity prior to Emperor Constantine's legalization of cristianity in the 4th century.
The True Church is of course the Universal Church which Ignatius said is present in the, er, presence of Jesus. (Which is present in the bible.) As opposed to the human multitude assembling before the bishop; there is a distinction.The true church is of course both visible and invisible and one of it's manifestations is the catholic church and the church could rightfully claim that it had martyrs during the roman empire's persecution of christians during the early centuries of christianity. Although we do concede that membership in the church alone does not guarantee salvation, however, the church can vouch for the fullness and apostolicity of its teaching.
So, in the presence of Jesus, all true Christians are part of the Universal Church; in the presence of the bishop, all members of his denomination are ... Roman Catholics?
It's no secret that the statements of Ignatius about the Universal Church are pointed to by Roman Catholics to identify their denomination with the True Church. (And, as you yourself are saying, the martyrs of the persecutions.)Irrelevant to the thread topic. Again, where is your church at the time when catholic christians were being fed to the lions in rome? We have catholics being fed to the lions during the early centuries of christianity according to an evangelical/protestant source, how about protestants and evangelicals?
This despite the reality that Ignatius made a distinction even while he made the comparison to justify his own authority ... unless, of course, you're putting the Roman Catholic Church on equal footing with Jesus?
I of course believe that all true Christians are part of the Universal Church, and so all true Christians of any denomination can rejoice that they had martyrs during the persecutions.0
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