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AC: Panasonic or Koppel ?

hi. need help in deciding what ac brand to choose. i was actually eyeing the panasonic with inverter for our new home. however, while i was at the store, a salesman showed koppel with inverter. the price is relatively lower. so, i am now considering this unit. does anyone know koppel brand's performance/quality and its after sales reputation?

would appreciate any feedback from you guys.

thanks in advance.
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Comments

  • arnoldsarnolds Member PExer
    Panasonic for me....not sure about Koppel..but I would stick to the major brands.
  • glenchuyglenchuy metrosexual shopaholic PExer
    koppel is kind of late in coming out with inverter technology. but they're a good company (and incidentally, a major brand). they're ACs are cheap and are pretty decent. it's made in china, but aren't most of everything made there nowadays?
  • uni_cornuni_corn Member PExer
    thanks guys for your immediate feedback.

    if it's not too much to ask, i just want to know your feedback on whirlpool refs, as well. hehe. it has been an energystar.gov awardee for 5 years and i'm wondering if it's worth buying.
  • glenchuyglenchuy metrosexual shopaholic PExer
    ^^ whirlpool is ok until service time. the cost for the parts are a total ripoff. but then again, if it starts conking out, it's probably time to have the unit replaced.
  • paolorenzopaolorenzo Member
    I'm in the same predicament as you, uni_corn. Panasonic has lowered their inverter prices, but increased installation costs. Grabe na ang installation charges nang split type inverters ngayon, it ranges from 5.5 - 8k, minimum charge (back-to-back). There's a lot of good units out there, like Panasonic, Samsung, LG, but installation cost is highway robbery.

    Ako, I've narrowed down my choices to Gree (Daikin compressor, free installation) and Kolin (Midea compressor).

    If money is no object, I suggest you go for Panasonic or Mitsubishi Industrial (Japan unit).

    For refrigerator, I've had a very pleasant experience with my frost-free LG. Bought it about 7 years ago for 19k, a full 10k cheaper than the equivalent Whirlpool stainless steel model (pero the LG is not stainless steel). I'm very very happy with the performance. Still going strong to-date.
  • albert_balbert_b Member PExer
    Like Paolorenzo said Panasonic or Mitsu Japan ... I actually have them both and running them all almost everyday for 3 to 5 hours a day for over a year ... haven't had any problems.
    I don't have any experience with owning a Koppel pero I'm ok naman na with Panasonic's Inverter.
  • glenchuyglenchuy metrosexual shopaholic PExer
    paolorenzo wrote: »
    Ako, I've narrowed down my choices to Gree (Daikin compressor, free installation) and Kolin (Midea compressor).

    the problem with Gree is not the compressor. Daikin is an excellent brand, in fact, Daikin invented/introduced VRV technology in ACs in the 80s. the problem with Gree is their after sales service.

    Kolin is also a decent cheap brand (Midea is also owned by parent company Koppel), again the problem is after sales service.

    But if you know a reliable third party service technician/company, then this item wouldn't really matter.
  • hi there! on your question... koppel ka nalang siguro... they're an ok brand din naman and cheaper pa...

    by the way.... ask ko narin... is it true na mas mura ang kuryente pag yung aircon type mo is yung may inverter? what are your experiences on this?
  • arnoldsarnolds Member PExer
    paolorenzo wrote: »
    I'm in the same predicament as you, uni_corn. Panasonic has lowered their inverter prices, but increased installation costs. Grabe na ang installation charges nang split type inverters ngayon, it ranges from 5.5 - 8k, minimum charge (back-to-back). There's a lot of good units out there, like Panasonic, Samsung, LG, but installation cost is highway robbery.

    Ako, I've narrowed down my choices to Gree (Daikin compressor, free installation) and Kolin (Midea compressor).

    If money is no object, I suggest you go for Panasonic or Mitsubishi Industrial (Japan unit).

    For refrigerator, I've had a very pleasant experience with my frost-free LG. Bought it about 7 years ago for 19k, a full 10k cheaper than the equivalent Whirlpool stainless steel model (pero the LG is not stainless steel). I'm very very happy with the performance. Still going strong to-date.

    If you do go with Gree, try to see if you can go to the duty free mall near NAIA 1. I was able to pick up a 1.5 split type (non inverter) for around 20k pesos about 6 months ago.
  • garckerrgarckerr Member PExer
    Actually for AC, If you look inside and dismantle it part by part most brands are the same , they also get their parts from almost the same suppliers. like tubings, frames, etc...even its a 'japanese brand' the parts are still most likely from China as all are.

    So basically you are just paying for the brand. Its just how they advertise so consumer can pick their choice from one brand to another.

    Regarding after sales service, well in the lifetime of your AC, how many times did you have AC fix from the supplier??

    Thats why AC/ref technicians can easily fix the defects because everything is almost the same, whatever brand it may be.

    So which brand has the better advertisement to lure you?
  • paolorenzopaolorenzo Member
    Thanks glenchuy. I think Midea as a stand-alone company is no longer around in the Phils -- they've pulled out already. Although they are one of the biggest aircon manufacturers in China (and therefore the world). Koppel sales agents claim they use Toshiba compressors for their inverter units.

    As for Kolin after sales, I'm liaising directly with their authorized surveyor, installer, and service center, Fix&Care. Good luck calling Kolin Service Center in Magallanes...

    Looks like I'll be stuck with Kolin. They're the only ones who think their 1.5hp is sufficient for my 18sqm masters bedroom. Gree and Daikin surveyors are pushing me to their 2hp units. With over a 10k price difference for the 0.5hp upsize, I don't think I can afford to take their advice. I asked Kolin surveyor again and again, and he was very confident that their Midea-powered 1.5hp unit will be up to the challenge.
  • paolorenzopaolorenzo Member
    Nga pala... Daikin has re-entered the Philippine market. Another brand which comes very highly recommended.

    http://www.daikin.com.ph/
  • uni_cornuni_corn Member PExer
    Seems like an interesting discussion. Keep them coming. I still cannot decide.
  • garckerrgarckerr Member PExer
    Realistically, 1.5 HP is good enough to cool a 18 sqm room.

    These surveyors just base it on the standard computation for the room size. Its actually the volume you have to compute , not the area.

    If you are not using an inverter then you dont have to get a bigger AC. In my house, I actually only use 0.75 HP for a 4X4X3 m room. its also accompanied by electric fan. I also use a 0.6 HP for my kids room of 3x2.5x3.

    If you do the math, it shouldn't be the right HP for the room size but realistically its enough unless the room really generates a lot of internal heat source, computers, tv, receivers, game console, etc..

    We normally use these aircon at least 10 hours per day for both and are monthly electric bill averages at 7K.

    If you dont want to believe in this concept then thats fine, but mind you im actually a Mech Eng and did study airconditioning subject for one whole semester, and I dont buy the crap those surveyors compute at all. Because at the end of the day with a high electricity cost like ours, you want to find the better way to cool your room at a lesser cost, and for me this works fine.
  • glenchuyglenchuy metrosexual shopaholic PExer
    paolorenzo wrote: »
    Thanks glenchuy. I think Midea as a stand-alone company is no longer around in the Phils -- they've pulled out already. Although they are one of the biggest aircon manufacturers in China (and therefore the world). Koppel sales agents claim they use Toshiba compressors for their inverter units.

    yes, midea is being distributed here by koppel philippines. hmm... now they're using toshiba? i recently purchased 5M worth of DX units from koppel for a building i'm constructing. it's through closed bidding, so their price is pretty competitive. i'm just not sure about the pricing when it comes to retail.
    paolorenzo wrote: »
    Looks like I'll be stuck with Kolin. They're the only ones who think their 1.5hp is sufficient for my 18sqm masters bedroom. Gree and Daikin surveyors are pushing me to their 2hp units. With over a 10k price difference for the 0.5hp upsize, I don't think I can afford to take their advice. I asked Kolin surveyor again and again, and he was very confident that their Midea-powered 1.5hp unit will be up to the challenge.

    in theory, 1TR is enough to sufficiently cool 45-50cbm (or usually 18sqm at 2.4-2.6M ceiling height). i don't have the BTU details for gree, daikin/ and midea's 1.5HP ACs, but i'm pretty sure they're close. in this regard, all three brands should be ok.

    *** shameless plug. i have 2 units KOPPEL 1.5HP wall mounted FCU (INDOOR UNIT ONLY INDOOR UNIT ONLY INDOOR UNIT ONLY), it is brand new and complete. if you can find somebody selling the ACCUs only, i'll sell them for dirt cheap.
  • uni_cornuni_corn Member PExer
    @wow_gorgeous - have no experience with inverters yet. but we are moving to a new house. i guess, it's time to try an AC with inverter, as they say "to save on electricity".

    @all - any comments re: savings on electricity for split with inverter ACs?

    @glenchuy - do you have experience with KOPPEL AC for residential purposes? i understand that they have built a reputation for industrial purposes, right? what is ACCU and FCU (re: your plug)?

    @garckerr - if the volume of my room is 3.8 x 3.8 x 2.8, what HP (split with inverter) should i get? 1HP or 1.5HP? btw, which brand do you use?
  • garckerrgarckerr Member PExer
    @uni_corn, if you plan to use inverter then get a 2 HP or higher. 1.5 HP might end up costing you more.

    Understand, that the inverter only works efficiently if the power of your aircon is higher than the capacity of the room, if not use a standard AC. You'll be wasting money

    As for popular brands, they are almost all the same.. if the difference is not much between the two, get the cheaper one. If the price of cheapest one is wayyy too low then dont get it, might be a substandard unit ..i dont even know which brand im using. the only difference is some brands have other features like remote IR.

    In comparison, its like buying a hard disk drive..there's seagate,
    WD, etc.. but in the end .. same, dont be brand conscious
  • asiastreakasiastreak Member PExer
    we invested in a 1.5 panasonic inverter 10 months ago.
    yup. happy with the energy savings.
    the cost was all worth it.
    our a/c is open on an average of > 20 hrs / day.
    so the drop in our elecricity bill was significantly noticable.

    if you would go the inverter route, I would discourage you from going below their rated hp/room size ratio.
    otherwise, you would only make your unit run on max power all the time. thus, making the inverter tech useless.

    what I appreciate the most about the inverter unit is the constant temperature it provides unlike conventional aircon.

    I don't own a Koppel, so I can't compare. but hoping this helps a little.

    OT: Pao, ikaw pa rin ba yan?! kamusta na? :)
  • glenchuyglenchuy metrosexual shopaholic PExer
    uni_corn wrote: »
    @all - any comments re: savings on electricity for split with inverter ACs?
    do you use?

    without going into the boring stuff, assuming a residential rate of 11php/kw, assuming an average daily consumption of 9-10 hours a day, assuming that your 2HP unit is cooling no more than 50-60cbm of air space, and lastly assuming that you're using it here in manila and not in dubai or something really hot and dry, your capex and opex should meet at around 6-8 months.

    this means by the 6-8th month, bawi ka na.
    uni_corn wrote: »
    @glenchuy - do you have experience with KOPPEL AC for residential purposes? i understand that they have built a reputation for industrial purposes, right? what is ACCU and FCU (re: your plug)?

    by "experience" you mean live in a residential unit powered by koppel AC? no.
    uni_corn wrote: »
    @garckerr - if the volume of my room is 3.8 x 3.8 x 2.8, what HP (split with inverter) should i get? 1HP or 1.5HP? btw, which brand do you use?

    1.5 is enough. i don't think anybody makes 1HP inverters -

    speaking of inverters. the company has been egging the philippine AC suppliers to come up with the window type inverter AC, the problem is the relatively small market - every one of our southeast asian neighbors use split type AC, tayo lang talaga ang mahilig sa window type.
  • paolorenzopaolorenzo Member
    asiastreak wrote: »
    OT: Pao, ikaw pa rin ba yan?! kamusta na? :)

    Hey Em. Ayos lang. Same old, same old. Send my regards to Lib.

    @glenchuy, almost all brands make 1HP inverters nowadays. Panasonic, Samsung, LG actually market their products as 1HP, but by looking at the model numbers (and more importantly cooling capacity numbers), I suspect they are actually 0.9HP only.

    Tama yung points ninyo na it's important to go 1-up with Inverter technology, to take advantage of the variable speed technology. Problema ko lang is the price jump between 1.5hp to 2hp does not seem to be proportionate to the 0.5hp power jump (price diff is about 10k). Sakit sa bulsa.
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