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On Abortion

yuel0022yuel0022 Wandering Boy PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
I have been involved in a discussion recently regarding abortion. My question is, when does the thing inside the woman (egg-sperm fusion) become a person? Or should I say, when do we consider it as a living organism?

Some people say that once the fusion of egg and sperm is successful we can consider it already as life. Although I'm not sure about this. I have insisted before that it is not yet living, but still in the process of creating a new life.

So again, my question: When do we consider it a life?

Thanks!
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Comments

  • SmartDessaSmartDessa Things divide;Christ unites PExer
    what constitutes life?
  • yuel0022yuel0022 Wandering Boy PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    SmartDessa wrote: »
    what constitutes life?

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/life

    I'll take 2a and 2b
    2a : the sequence of physical and mental experiences that make up the existence of an individual b : one or more aspects of the process of living
  • SmartDessaSmartDessa Things divide;Christ unites PExer
    Hi,

    your last post there is your answer.

    once the fetus has already developed into something (or someone) that has physicality as well as mentality, that thing (or human) has life.

    so the question is, when exactly is that?

    you will already see the fetus' physical form after a few weeks:

    EmbryonicDevelopmentComplete1.gif

    but how about the brain?
  • yuel0022yuel0022 Wandering Boy PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    I am not sure when the brain develops, I need to research more about this.

    so we can say the still developing cells (egg+sperm, not yet fetus) is not yet alive?
  • There are a minimum of 2 authorities we need to consider on this issue namely the moral authorities and the scientific authorities. To those who are faithful (adhering to religious beliefs), there's also the religious authorities that dominates the 2 abovementioned.

    Practically speaking and basing my opinion on SmartDessa's post of the fetal development, the union of the egg and sperm (which is the first day) is the beginning of the fetus. And without the beginning there'll be no growth at all.

    Therefore once the union of the egg and sperm is destroyed at any stage of development, I consider that an abortion.
  • SmartDessaSmartDessa Things divide;Christ unites PExer
    i think that once the body can experience something, and reacts to that experience, then that body is alive.

    how do you know if the rat is dead? you poke it and see if it reacts :lol:

    on a relative note
    I once heard that abortion is wrong only when the person who commits it recognizes the fetus as something alive, when that person knows that he is killing a life.
  • yuel0022yuel0022 Wandering Boy PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    to both of you..

    tnx for the input! at least it gets clearer to me. let's just wait for other opinions
  • kaya nga naguguluhan ako sa stand ng simbahan na "no condoms".
    condoms doesn't kill life. it prevents life. magkaiba ba yun?
  • kaya nga naguguluhan ako sa stand ng simbahan na "no condoms".
    condoms doesn't kill life. it prevents life. magkaiba ba yun?

    Magkaiba siguro, sa spelling pa lang noh! :lol: Joke lang po.

    Seriously speaking, shempre magkaiba yan bcoz condoms prevent the "union" of the egg and the sperm just like other related contraceptives.
  • SmartDessaSmartDessa Things divide;Christ unites PExer
    abstinence also prevents life.
  • SmartDessa wrote: »
    abstinence also prevents life.


    I agree with that. But that doesn't have to do anything with abortion.
  • vincexvincex Member PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    yuel0022 wrote: »
    I have been involved in a discussion recently regarding abortion. My question is, when does the thing inside the woman (egg-sperm fusion) become a person? Or should I say, when do we consider it as a living organism?

    Some people say that once the fusion of egg and sperm is successful we can consider it already as life. Although I'm not sure about this. I have insisted before that it is not yet living, but still in the process of creating a new life.

    So again, my question: When do we consider it a life?

    Thanks!

    The sperm and egg cells are living organisms on their own. They have their own low levels of cognition. Each stage brings about a higher level of cognition. It's a question of what is your benchmark of what is KILLABLE or not. But mind you, people don't realize it that they themselves are murderers in one way or another. Everything from the ants (murder/homicide) and cockroaches you step on(self defense), the meat you eat (accessory to murder), the vegetables you eat (lower level accessory to murder), the cat you accidentally ran over (homicide), if were go to the extreme, the mouthwash you used to clean your mouth (murder of single celled organisms) .

    If you were to really consider abortion I would suggest 5 months and below. After the 5th month the creature evolves into a higher level by then. In the end, we still kill each other for preservation reasons don't we? Resource protection is also a preservation function.
  • yuel0022yuel0022 Wandering Boy PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    @vincex

    But if we can consider the united egg and sperm (maybe even a week old) as a life already then abortion would be the same as murder, regardless of the purpose. The question of whether what you have done (i.e. abortion) is righteous or not is next in line.
  • IscharamoochieIscharamoochie Moderator PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    i still stand for the stage of cell pluripotency, or the blastocyst stage at least.
  • SamLowrySamLowry James Randian PExer
    ^^but can we already consider it human when it can still be frozen and thawed?

    when's the next EB, mooch?:)
  • IscharamoochieIscharamoochie Moderator PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    i could still be frozen and thawed, couldn't i?
  • Ida_0818Ida_0818 Member PExer
    when do we consider it a life?
    how do we know if a thing has a life?
    what are the characteristics of a thing to be considered as living?
    some of the characteristics of a living thing are:
    1. it grows....upon fusion of the male sperm and the female egg cell the egg started to develop and grows and changes it forms
    2. it kneeds food to survive.....the egg in order to live, grow and develop it needs to stay in the mothers womb and rely on the mothers own nutrients to live

    so base on this facts upon fusion of the males sperm and the female egg cells it is already considered a living organism which has a life.
  • IscharamoochieIscharamoochie Moderator PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    bacteria don't grow
  • SamLowrySamLowry James Randian PExer
    i could still be frozen and thawed, couldn't i?

    I doubt you'd survive and go on living tho.
  • IscharamoochieIscharamoochie Moderator PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    SamLowry wrote: »
    I doubt you'd survive and go on living tho.

    the only thing preventing that is the difficulty in sustaining cryoprotectant dosage while waiting for tissues to freeze. i'm sure that with advances in nanotechnology and molecular biology, the issue will be resolved in time. if water bears can do it, why can't we?

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