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To Christian "John 3:16"

hgm727hgm727 Money Maker PExer
John 3:16 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Sa mga Christian, Ano po ang comment nyo dito...
Paano po ang ibang religeon like Buddhist, Islam, Hinduism and others?will they perish?...:hmm:
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Comments

  • JongaJonga Banned by Admin PExer
    some people believes that to have an eternal life is abominable.

    and your verse never said that that's the ONLY way.
  • e2 rin: Jesus said "nobody comes to the father except thru me"... cant we pray directly to God the father? may check point din pala sa langit ? :love::bop:
  • hgm727 wrote: »
    Sa mga Christian, Ano po ang comment nyo dito...
    Paano po ang ibang religeon like Buddhist, Islam, Hinduism and others?will they perish?...:hmm:

    What do you think?
  • aml65aml65 hmph! PExer
    may chance nah they will get saved ang mga muslim bhuddist etc....by just accepting jesus christ as our lord and savior....and accept the you are a guilty sinner and ask for forgiveness
  • jerome1970jerome1970 Agnostic PExer
    ^^^ this is bullcrap!!!!!. how can a believer of islam or buddha or any tribal religion for that matter would say that "yeah, you are right Jesus is the Savior" if there is not one drop of Christiany in their faith?

    These people believed in their own cultural and religious way just like Christians do! Christianity doesn't beget Islam or Buddhism or Shintoism or vice versa. So how would they accept your theory?

    You are one dumb m
    f---er.
  • Fortitude777Fortitude777 Member PExer
    Hello , this is my first post.

    IMHO , Salvation is a gift from God and therefore He alone knows kung sino ang ililigtas nya. No one is worthy of eternal life, lahat naman tayo nagkasala. What is mentioned in the Bible are ways for people to know that there is God and therefore bring hope that one day we are able to join Him in Heaven.

    While Muslims , Buddhist and other religion I have no idea kung maliligtas nga sila. Only the Lord knows! again IMO , kahit yung mga Christians who claimed na ligtas sila , what guarantee do they have na ganon nga? that's only their claim. Ultimately , only the Lord knows kung sino ang ililigtas nya.
  • roelallenroelallen La Champe ?lys?enne PExer
    hgm727 wrote: »
    John 3:16, New International Version (NIV):

    16 For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

    Sa mga Christian, Ano po ang comment nyo dito...
    Paano po ang ibang religeon like Buddhist, Islam, Hinduism and others?will they perish?...:hmm:

    The answer to the query in this thread is surely in the affirmative. Jesus of Nazareth did truly claim before the Jews and their religious and political leaders of His time that He, like His Father that is in heaven, is also God.

    To the Jews he plainly and categorically said, "Before Abraham was, I am". I think nothing can be any plainer than this. That is why the Jews sought to punish Him with stoning for committing the capital crime of blasphemy, that is, of making Himself equal with God and making Himself like God.

    As to the second query, the answer is also plainly and categorically provided in the sacred Scriptures, in the Book of the Acts of the Apostles, Chapter 4 thereof, where Saint Peter under the power and influence of the Holy Ghost, said these words to the same Jews and their political and religious leaders, thus:

    10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

    11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

    12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


    Saint Peter can not be any clearer. There is no salvation in any other way or in any other name, but only the name of Jesus Christ, for it is the only name given (appointed, ordained, set forth, laid down) under heaven whereby any member of this human race can be saved.

    Now, any Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu, animist, atheist, agnostic, pagan, or such, who has heard of the preaching of this Gospel, and has heard and understood God's offer and invitation of this salvation through His one and only Son (in French le Fils unique = the unique Son, in Spanish el unico Hijo = the one and only son) Jesus Christ, but after such hearing rejects such offer and invitation of God, will surely stand before God accursed at the Judgement Day for such rejection of His offer and invitation of salvation.

    However, all those who, through no fault of their own, did not or was not able to have that opportunity to hear this preaching of the Gospel of God's offer and invitation of salvation through His one and only Son, shall be judged according to what they know at the time of their deaths, and their non-acceptance of the Gospel was not of their fault, so that they have an excuse before God.

    This is why it is an irremovable and irreplaceable mission of the Church to preach this Gospel to the world, so that none will have an excuse before God during the Great Judgement.

    And this mortal life is the only time and opportunity to hear and accept such offer and invitation.
  • tontontonton Let's stop and talk awhile. PExer
    roelallen wrote: »
    The answer to the query in this thread is surely in the affirmative. Jesus of Nazareth did truly claim before the Jews and their religious and political leaders of His time that He, like His Father that is in heaven, is also God.

    To the Jews he plainly and categorically said, "Before Abraham was, I am". I think nothing can be any plainer than this. That is why the Jews sought to punish Him with stoning for committing the capital crime of blasphemy, that is, of making Himself equal with God and making Himself like God.

    You misinterpreted Jeezas, just like what the jews did. Jesus never made himself equal to God, nor did he made himself like God.

    BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS, I AM.

    He was simply stating his EXISTENCE before Abraham existed. That does not prove that he made himself equal to or like God.

    PROOF:

    That was his response to this statement made by the jews.
    • Joh 8:57 The Jews therefore said unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

    Angels and other beings existed before Abraham. Does that make them equal to or like God??

    How can you even say that Jesus made himself equal to God when he says it clearly:
    • Joh 14:28 for the Father is greater than I.

    How can you say that Jesus is LIKE GOD when GOD HIMSELF DENIES IT?
    • Isa 46:9 I am God, and there is none like me;

    The muslims have their own scripture that consider your beliefs as plain blasphemous, stating that God is much too glorified to have a son.

    and buddhist scriptures declare that Siddharta Gautama is the Saviour of Mankind.

    Why would we believe the bible? Its the christian word against the muslims or the buddhists' word. Nothing more.

    And besides, those books are definitely MORE CONSISTENT than the bible which is fool of loopholes.
  • JongaJonga Banned by Admin PExer
    A question to theists:

    when Jesus was on earth, was he different in gretness from when he already ascended?
  • roelallenroelallen La Champe ?lys?enne PExer
    tonton wrote: »
    You misinterpreted Jeezas, just like what the jews did. Jesus never made himself equal to God, nor did he made himself like God.

    BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS, I AM.

    Not at all. I have not misinterpreted the Lord Jesus's words, neither what is written in the Scriptures. And neither did the Jews to whom the Lord said those words. It is obviously you who have misinterpreted these important and meaning-laden words of the Lord.

    You obviously do not know the import, neither the significance, of the words "I Am" in the sacred Scriptures, both Old and New (Jewish and Christian). These words are the very name of God Himself that He Himself revealed to Moses at Mount Sinai, when asked by Moses about His name, and what he will tell the Israelites then in bondage in Egypt as to His name if they will ask Moses. As such, the Tetragrammaton (YHWH = JHVH) is significant as the very ineffable name of the Lord, which is translated as "I Am That I Am".

    This significance however was never lost with Jesus, neither with the Jews and Pharisees during His time. Their interpretation of the Lord's words were correct: He indeed was claiming divine pre-existence that only God could have, and by doing so committed under their Mosaic laws the capital crime of blasphemy. For had Jesus said to them, "Before Abraham was, I already was", or "Before Abraham was, I already existed", or "Before Abraham was, I was already in existence", then they could not have accused the Lord of so great a crime as blasphemy, or claiming equality with God and Godhood itself, for indeed true it is, that there were and are created beings that pre-existed Abraham in the flesh.

    But granting that by these alternate words they can also accuse the Lord of blasphemy, then all the more reason why we must interpret the phrase to be a claim by the Lord of divinity Himself because of His very use of the very name of God in the Old Testament, "I Am", and not just "I already existed" or "I already was", which can be used by the angels only without impunity.
    tonton wrote: »
    He was simply stating his EXISTENCE before Abraham existed. That does not prove that he made himself equal to or like God.

    PROOF:

    That was his response to this statement made by the jews.
    • Joh 8:57 The Jews therefore said unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

    That is no proof at all. For had the Lord only intended to establish to the Jews from His answer to them His physical and spiritual pre-existence to that of Abraham's, then He would have carefully used the more appropriate phrases "I already was" or "I already existed" rather than the theologically loaded term "I Am", and that in front of the Jews in the Temple!

    This just goes on to show to us that the Lord Jesus Christ does not stop into mere physical and spiritual pre-existence over Abraham when He said "I Am", but rather something more, something that is Godhood Itself. Again, if you are a Jew living in that time, and even in fact now in Israel, this interpretation of the import and significance of the phrase "I Am" shall not be lost to you.
    tonton wrote: »
    Angels and other beings existed before Abraham. Does that make them equal to or like God??

    Exactly. This is why the Lord was careful to use the theologically loaded term "I Am" rather than simply "I already was" or "I already existed" to point out that the Lord was not only signifying physical and spiritual pre-existence over Abraham, which the created angels also do, but much more, which is Godhood and divinity Itself. Again, this willful and intentionally careful use by the Lord of these heavily loaded words were not lost upon those Jews, and rightly and correctly indeed.
    tonton wrote: »
    How can you even say that Jesus made himself equal to God when he says it clearly:
    • Joh 14:28 for the Father is greater than I.

    In human relational situations, being greater does not necessarily denote inequality. As such, my human father may be greater than me, indeed yes, for he is my father, but that will not make me less of a human being than him. His being greater than me in terms of stature and significance in this world never will derogate from the fact that we both are true human beings. Such is the same with the Lord Jesus Christ and His Father.

    True it is, in His humility and truth, He always says that His Father is greater than Him, and that is indeed true, for the father is indeed greater than the son, and the sender is greater than the one who is sent. But will that derogate from the divinity of the Lord Jesus Christ? The answer can only be in the negative. For if by being sent by His Father on His mission here on earth to save humanity His Father is indeed greater than Him, and that then derogated and diminished the Lord Jesus Christ's stature in the divine plane, then He could not have accomplished His mission here, for such mission itself necessitated the sacrifice and presence of a true God on this earth.

    Hence, his other appellation of Immanu el = With us is God. For by coming down here on earth, God, the Word, did indeed "dwelt among us".
    tonton wrote: »
    How can you say that Jesus is LIKE GOD when GOD HIMSELF DENIES IT?
    • Isa 46:9 I am God, and there is none like me;

    I can also say to my pet dogs that are becoming wayward and giving and affirming their loyalty to my neighbour and not to me, to my irritation, that I am their only master, and there is no other. Now, will this also imply that there are no other masters of dogs? Obviously not. For if my other neighbour has a dog, he is also a master of that dog.

    Point is, God addressed those words through Isaiah to those wayward Israelites who were obsessed with idolatry, that is, worshipping also other gods like Baal, the sun, the moon, and the trees which their pagan Philistine neighbours did worship as their gods. You must contextualise the words of God in the Holy Scriptures in their totality, and not make piecemeal interpretations of them.
    tonton wrote: »
    The muslims have their own scripture that consider your beliefs as plain blasphemous, stating that God is much too glorified to have a son.

    You know what, I do know why you Muslims hate Saint Paul the Apostle so much. For let me tell you that even 500 years before Muhammed was born, Saint Paul in his Epistle to the Galatians already prophesied by the power of the Holy Spirit of the coming of the bondage of Hagar and her seed Ishmael that will persecute Isaac and Jerusalem. Prophesying thus, he warned us that we are of Sarah the free, and not of Hagar the bondmaid. For the former is free, and is Jerusalem, while the latter is bondage, and is Arabia. And as Ishmael persecuted Isaac, so also today.

    Even the self immolations and suicide bombings of Muslims are already refuted and abolished of merit by Saint Paul himself 500 years before the birth of Muhammed, when Saint Paul wrote to the Corinthian Christians that even if he gives his body to be burned, but has not love, it profits him nothing and avails him nothing.

    Now, let me tell you that it is you Muslims who are blaspheming God, and not us Christians, for in saying that God can not have a son, you are in fact limiting His very power, will, and intention. What if indeed God wishes to have a Son? What if He wishes to beget someone like Him, someone who is God also like Him? And that exactly what happened. We Christians believe that God is a person, and that He begat, and that what He begat is a Son, and that this Son is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, God like His Father is God.

    Now if you can not believe that, that is your decision, we Christians can only explain and preach to you.
    tonton wrote: »
    and buddhist scriptures declare that Siddharta Gautama is the Saviour of Mankind.

    I do not think this is factually true.
    tonton wrote: »
    Why would we believe the bible? Its the christian word against the muslims or the buddhists' word. Nothing more.

    That is your own opinion. For us Christians, the Holy Bible is the true word of God, nothing more, nothing less. Personally, compared to the Quran or the Bhagavad Gita (I have read both of them), the Holy Bible is of infinite and incomparable power, wisdom, beauty, and glory.
    tonton wrote: »
    And besides, those books are definitely MORE CONSISTENT than the bible which is fool of loopholes.

    That is your opinion. The Holy Bible is buttressed by centuries of archaeology, anthropology, history, theology, and philosphy, thus creating such independently solid and scientific fields of Biblical studies such as hermeneutics, exegesis, eschatology, hamartiology, soteriology, and other worthwhile intellectual endeavours.

    For a single book to have effected these wide ranging and multiple fields of studies resulting in the enrichment of the history and intellect of the human race is truly phenomenal and supremely unique.
  • keoboikeoboi Small Jokes PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    hgm727 wrote: »
    John 3:16 (New International Version)
    New International Version (NIV)

    16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


    Sa mga Christian, Ano po ang comment nyo dito...
    Paano po ang ibang religeon like Buddhist, Islam, Hinduism and others?will they perish?...:hmm:

    First of all each religion has a different explanation to what happens after death. For Christians we believe in eternal life... for Buddhist it's enlightenment...

    Besides this is not a battle between what religion is better... but rather what religion best suits whatever you believe in
  • keoboikeoboi Small Jokes PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    Jonga wrote: »
    A question to theists:

    when Jesus was on earth, was he different in gretness from when he already ascended?

    I believe so... The story of transfiguration says so...
  • tontontonton Let's stop and talk awhile. PExer
    roelallen wrote: »
    Not at all. I have not misinterpreted the Lord Jesus's words, neither what is written in the Scriptures. And neither did the Jews to whom the Lord said those words. It is obviously you who have misinterpreted these important and meaning-laden words of the Lord.

    You obviously do not know the import, neither the significance, of the words "I Am" in the sacred Scriptures, both Old and New (Jewish and Christian). These words are the very name of God Himself that He Himself revealed to Moses at Mount Sinai, when asked by Moses about His name, and what he will tell the Israelites then in bondage in Egypt as to His name if they will ask Moses. As such, the Tetragrammaton (YHWH = JHVH) is significant as the very ineffable name of the Lord, which is translated as "I Am That I Am".

    This significance however was never lost with Jesus, neither with the Jews and Pharisees during His time. Their interpretation of the Lord's words were correct: He indeed was claiming divine pre-existence that only God could have, and by doing so committed under their Mosaic laws the capital crime of blasphemy. For had Jesus said to them, "Before Abraham was, I already was", or "Before Abraham was, I already existed", or "Before Abraham was, I was already in existence", then they could not have accused the Lord of so great a crime as blasphemy, or claiming equality with God and Godhood itself, for indeed true it is, that there were and are created beings that pre-existed Abraham in the flesh.

    But granting that by these alternate words they can also accuse the Lord of blasphemy, then all the more reason why we must interpret the phrase to be a claim by the Lord of divinity Himself because of His very use of the very name of God in the Old Testament, "I Am", and not just "I already existed" or "I already was", which can be used by the angels only without impunity.


    That is no proof at all. For had the Lord only intended to establish to the Jews from His answer to them His physical and spiritual pre-existence to that of Abraham's, then He would have carefully used the more appropriate phrases "I already was" or "I already existed" rather than the theologically loaded term "I Am", and that in front of the Jews in the Temple!

    This just goes on to show to us that the Lord Jesus Christ does not stop into mere physical and spiritual pre-existence over Abraham when He said "I Am", but rather something more, something that is Godhood Itself. Again, if you are a Jew living in that time, and even in fact now in Israel, this interpretation of the import and significance of the phrase "I Am" shall not be lost to you.


    Exactly. This is why the Lord was careful to use the theologically loaded term "I Am" rather than simply "I already was" or "I already existed" to point out that the Lord was not only signifying physical and spiritual pre-existence over Abraham, which the created angels also do, but much more, which is Godhood and divinity Itself. Again, this willful and intentionally careful use by the Lord of these heavily loaded words were not lost upon those Jews, and rightly and correctly indeed.



    In human relational situations, being greater does not necessarily denote inequality. As such, my human father may be greater than me, indeed yes, for he is my father, but that will not make me less of a human being than him. His being greater than me in terms of stature and significance in this world never will derogate from the fact that we both are true human beings. Such is the same with the Lord Jesus Christ and His Father.

    True it is, in His humility and truth, He always says that His Father is greater than Him, and that is indeed true, for the father is indeed greater than the son, and the sender is greater than the one who is sent. But will that derogate from the divinity of the Lord Jesus Christ? The answer can only be in the negative. For if by being sent by His Father on His mission here on earth to save humanity His Father is indeed greater than Him, and that then derogated and diminished the Lord Jesus Christ's stature in the divine plane, then He could not have accomplished His mission here, for such mission itself necessitated the sacrifice and presence of a true God on this earth.

    Hence, his other appellation of Immanu el = With us is God. For by coming down here on earth, God, the Word, did indeed "dwelt among us".



    I can also say to my pet dogs that are becoming wayward and giving and affirming their loyalty to my neighbour and not to me, to my irritation, that I am their only master, and there is no other. Now, will this also imply that there are no other masters of dogs? Obviously not. For if my other neighbour has a dog, he is also a master of that dog.

    Point is, God addressed those words through Isaiah to those wayward Israelites who were obsessed with idolatry, that is, worshipping also other gods like Baal, the sun, the moon, and the trees which their pagan Philistine neighbours did worship as their gods. You must contextualise the words of God in the Holy Scriptures in their totality, and not make piecemeal interpretations of them.



    You know what, I do know why you Muslims hate Saint Paul the Apostle so much. For let me tell you that even 500 years before Muhammed was born, Saint Paul in his Epistle to the Galatians already prophesied by the power of the Holy Spirit of the coming of the bondage of Hagar and her seed Ishmael that will persecute Isaac and Jerusalem. Prophesying thus, he warned us that we are of Sarah the free, and not of Hagar the bondmaid. For the former is free, and is Jerusalem, while the latter is bondage, and is Arabia. And as Ishmael persecuted Isaac, so also today.

    Even the self immolations and suicide bombings of Muslims are already refuted and abolished of merit by Saint Paul himself 500 years before the birth of Muhammed, when Saint Paul wrote to the Corinthian Christians that even if he gives his body to be burned, but has not love, it profits him nothing and avails him nothing.

    Now, let me tell you that it is you Muslims who are blaspheming God, and not us Christians, for in saying that God can not have a son, you are in fact limiting His very power, will, and intention. What if indeed God wishes to have a Son? What if He wishes to beget someone like Him, someone who is God also like Him? And that exactly what happened. We Christians believe that God is a person, and that He begat, and that what He begat is a Son, and that this Son is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, God like His Father is God.

    Now if you can not believe that, that is your decision, we Christians can only explain and preach to you.



    I do not think this is factually true.



    That is your own opinion. For us Christians, the Holy Bible is the true word of God, nothing more, nothing less. Personally, compared to the Quran or the Bhagavad Gita (I have read both of them), the Holy Bible is of infinite and incomparable power, wisdom, beauty, and glory.



    That is your opinion. The Holy Bible is buttressed by centuries of archaeology, anthropology, history, theology, and philosphy, thus creating such independently solid and scientific fields of Biblical studies such as hermeneutics, exegesis, eschatology, hamartiology, soteriology, and other worthwhile intellectual endeavours.

    For a single book to have effected these wide ranging and multiple fields of studies resulting in the enrichment of the history and intellect of the human race is truly phenomenal and supremely unique.


    Your theology is so complicated with so many technical terms used to fool the gullible. Simple reading is the order. Simple common sense exposes what is hidden in those scholarly treatises about the bible.

    Proof that you have misintrepreted "BEFORE ABRAHAM, I WAS"

    That does not say anything about Jesus Godhood except his preexistence before Abraham. Its as simple as that. And may I repeat the bible verses to support my claim that you have definitely misinterpreted it like most of them.

    THE I AM IN THE OLD TESTAMENT. CONTEXT: GOD'S IDENTITY OR NAME
    • Exo 3:13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? What shall I say unto them?
    • Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you
    .

    "I AM" USED IN THE NEW TESTAMENT. CONTEXT: JESUS EXISTENCE BEFORE ABRAHAM.
    • Joh 8:57 The Jews therefore said unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

      The underlined phrase is the proof that this is all about Jesus' pre-existence. NOT GODHOOD.

    • Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am.

    Simple english, roelallen. That use of I AM was obviously abused to teach about Jesus' Godhood. Now why would I believe your "theologically loaded" explanation which is nothing more than conjecture when there are clear verses in the bible to back-up my claim?

    Now, about Buddha being a Saviour of the world, Read this from the book Buddha, His Life and Teachings. Sorry I have no link but I have this book in my possession.
      For this son of thine will rule the world. The wheel of empire will come to him. He will either be a king of kings to govern all the lands of the earth, or verily will become a Buddha. He is born for the sake of everything that lives. His pure teaching will be like the shore that receives the shipwrecked. His power of meditation will be like a cool lake; and all creatures parched with the drought of lust may freely drink thereof.

      On the fire of covetousness he will cause the cloud of his mercy to rise, so that the rain of the law may extinguish it. The heavy gates of despondency will he open, and give deliverance to all creatures ensnared in the self-entwined meshes of folly and ignorance. The king of the law has come forth to rescue from bondage all the poor, the miserable, the helpless.

      I do not worship Brahma, but I worship this child; and the gods in the temples will descend from their places of honor to adore him. Banish all anxiety and doubt. The spiritual omens manifested indicated that THE CHILD NOW BORN WILL BRING DELIVERANCE TO THE WHOLE WORLD.


      Just like Jesus, roel. And he came before Jesus.

      If you compared the Quran and the bible, so did I. The Quran is more authoritative that the bible that is so inconsistent. The single most important doctrine of Christianity, the GODHOOD OF JESUS was not even taught by Jesus himself. Everybody else teaches that except Jesus himself.

      Thus, the Quranic question:
      • [5:116] GOD will say, "O Jesus, son of Mary, did you say to the people, `Make me and my mother idols beside GOD?' " He will say, "Be You glorified. I could not utter what was not right. Had I said it, You already would have known it. You know my thoughts, and I do not know Your thoughts. You know all the secrets.

        Even in the bible, Jesus never taught anything of that sort.
      I can also say to my pet dogs that are becoming wayward and giving and affirming their loyalty to my neighbour and not to me, to my irritation, that I am their only master, and there is no other. Now, will this also imply that there are no other masters of dogs? Obviously not. For if my other neighbour has a dog, he is also a master of that dog.

      Point is, God addressed those words through Isaiah to those wayward Israelites who were obsessed with idolatry, that is, worshipping also other gods like Baal, the sun, the moon, and the trees which their pagan Philistine neighbours did worship as their gods. You must contextualise the words of God in the Holy Scriptures in their totality, and not make piecemeal interpretations of them.

      Well, how many masters does your dog have? You and there is no other, right? Why are you talking about other dogs? FYI, the God of the OT is talking about the ENTIRE EARTH.
      • Exo 9:14 For I will this time send all my plagues upon thy heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth.

      Very clear, in simple english.

      Now why do Muslims hate Paul? They have their reasons which may be similar to mine. I really don't care.

      But there is really something to hate about Paul. He is an ANTI-CHRIST in the literal sense of the word. He contradicts Jesus, an open hypocrite and a self-confessed thief. We can discuss that in detail if you want.
      In human relational situations, being greater does not necessarily denote inequality. As such, my human father may be greater than me, indeed yes, for he is my father, but that will not make me less of a human being than him. His being greater than me in terms of stature and significance in this world never will derogate from the fact that we both are true human beings. Such is the same with the Lord Jesus Christ and His Father.

      True it is, in His humility and truth, He always says that His Father is greater than Him, and that is indeed true, for the father is indeed greater than the son, and the sender is greater than the one who is sent. But will that derogate from the divinity of the Lord Jesus Christ? The answer can only be in the negative. For if by being sent by His Father on His mission here on earth to save humanity His Father is indeed greater than Him, and that then derogated and diminished the Lord Jesus Christ's stature in the divine plane, then He could not have accomplished His mission here, for such mission itself necessitated the sacrifice and presence of a true God on this earth.

      Hence, his other appellation of Immanu el = With us is God. For by coming down here on earth, God, the Word, did indeed "dwelt among us".

      Then you admit that the Father is GREAT than Jesus. So where is the equality there? Nowhere.

      Other proof that Jesus and God are not equal:
      • Mar 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good save one, even God.
      • Joh 5:30 I can of myself do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is righteous; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
      • Joh 7:28 Jesus therefore cried in the temple, teaching and saying, Ye both know me, and know whence I am; and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not.
      • Joh 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, a servant is not greater than his lord; neither one that is sent greater than he that sent him.
      • Joh 8:28 Jesus therefore said, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself, but as the Father taught me, I speak these things.
      • Joh 10:29 My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all;
      • Psa 80:17 Let thy hand be upon the man of thy right hand, Upon the son of man whom thou madest strong for thyself.
      • Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

      Where is the equality that you have been forcing out?
    • roelallenroelallen La Champe ?lys?enne PExer
      Of course it is not simple English, for the phrase I Am is not a simple translation because it proceeds out of a non simple Hebrew, and then Aramaic, and then Greek language. For us to understand it, we must stand in the milieu of the Lord Jesus Christ when He uttered those words to the Jews. And a correct understanding of the Books of Exodus and the Gospel of John is also necessary.

      Unfortunately, you seem to have no desire to immerse into the Jewish and Christian theological implications of the phrase I Am. As such, your queries will only result in vain.
      tonton wrote: »
      Now, about Buddha being a Saviour of the world, Read this from the book Buddha, His Life and Teachings. Sorry I have no link but I have this book in my possession.

      I do not worship Brahma, but I worship this child; and the gods in the temples will descend from their places of honor to adore him. Banish all anxiety and doubt. The spiritual omens manifested indicated that THE CHILD NOW BORN WILL BRING DELIVERANCE TO THE WHOLE WORLD.[/I][/list]

      A saviour is different from THE SAVIOUR. And this is the main difference between the Lord Jesus Christ and men like Muhammed, Buddha, Krishna, and others. The Lord Jesus Christ is unique because He claimed to be THE only way to God the Father, THE light and THE life of this world. This much is true in the Holy Scriptures.
      tonton wrote: »
      If you compared the Quran and the bible, so did I. The Quran is more authoritative that the bible that is so inconsistent. The single most important doctrine of Christianity, the GODHOOD OF JESUS was not even taught by Jesus himself. Everybody else teaches that except Jesus himself.

      Thus, the Quranic question:
      • [5:116] GOD will say, "O Jesus, son of Mary, did you say to the people, `Make me and my mother idols beside GOD?' " He will say, "Be You glorified. I could not utter what was not right. Had I said it, You already would have known it. You know my thoughts, and I do not know Your thoughts. You know all the secrets.

        Even in the bible, Jesus never taught anything of that sort.

      Rubbish! Of course not, je je je. The Quran is way far behind compared to the power and eternal value of the Holy Bible. And of course, that Quranic question begs the question, actually. It criticises something through a literary means by basing its premises on what are already practised by Christians as of its writing, and then by adjudjing it beforehand as idolatry. Of course we Christians do not consider our worship of the Lord Jesus Christ as idolatry, for He is indeed God, nor do we consider our veneration of the Saints like Mary His Mother to be idolatry also, except to Protestants. The Quran begs the question, and in so doing falls on its logic itself. And so does to the other scriptures of other religions. Of course this is my own personal taste and opinion, so you just have to accept it.
      tonton wrote: »
      Well, how many masters does your dog have? You and there is no other, right? Why are you talking about other dogs? FYI, the God of the OT is talking about the ENTIRE EARTH.
      • Exo 9:14 For I will this time send all my plagues upon thy heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth.

      Very clear, in simple english.

      Well, the Hebrew for earth there at the last of the verse can also be rendered as land, ground, or world. So it may not necessarily refer to the whole planet earth. As such, my analogy stands.
      tonton wrote: »
      Now why do Muslims hate Paul? They have their reasons which may be similar to mine. I really don't care.

      But there is really something to hate about Paul. He is an ANTI-CHRIST in the literal sense of the word. He contradicts Jesus, an open hypocrite and a self-confessed thief. We can discuss that in detail if you want.

      You do not actually need to elaborate why because, as I said above, I already know, je je je. And that ought to rather instill an appreciation of Saint Paul in you rather than murderous hatred because of all his prophetic insights regarding Muhammed and Islam which insights he did clearly elaborate and elucidate theologically in a beautiful letter to all of us Christians.
      tonton wrote: »
      Then you admit that the Father is GREAT than Jesus. So where is the equality there? Nowhere.

      Other proof that Jesus and God are not equal:
      • Mar 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good save one, even God.
      • Joh 5:30 I can of myself do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is righteous; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
      • Joh 7:28 Jesus therefore cried in the temple, teaching and saying, Ye both know me, and know whence I am; and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not.
      • Joh 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, a servant is not greater than his lord; neither one that is sent greater than he that sent him.
      • Joh 8:28 Jesus therefore said, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself, but as the Father taught me, I speak these things.
      • Joh 10:29 My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all;
      • Psa 80:17 Let thy hand be upon the man of thy right hand, Upon the son of man whom thou madest strong for thyself.
      • Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

      Where is the equality that you have been forcing out?

      These are childish surmisings that any simple Christian Bible commentary can resolve. I hope you do attempt to read one in a library before asking questions here.

      Actually, you have refuted nothing at all. If you will only read and analyse my original post above, then you will learn and understand.
    • tontontonton Let's stop and talk awhile. PExer
      roelallen wrote: »
      Of course it is not simple English, for the phrase I Am is not a simple translation because it proceeds out of a non simple Hebrew, and then Aramaic, and then Greek language. For us to understand it, we must stand in the milieu of the Lord Jesus Christ when He uttered those words to the Jews. And a correct understanding of the Books of Exodus and the Gospel of John is also necessary.

      Not simple english?? You didn't even rebut my comparison of exodus and the new testament usage of I AM.

      Isn't it that the message of Jesus if FOR ALL TIME? Why do you need to look at the situation of the ancients? If so, then the bible is limited by time.
      Unfortunately, you seem to have no desire to immerse into the Jewish and Christian theological implications of the phrase I Am. As such, your queries will only result in vain.

      Unfortunately, you seem to have a distaste for explanation coming from simple bible verses and have a knack for technical gobbledygook. Are those scholars who invented hermeneutics and the like, infallible? Are you throwing simple common sense out the window?
      A saviour is different from THE SAVIOUR. And this is the main difference between the Lord Jesus Christ and men like Muhammed, Buddha, Krishna, and others. The Lord Jesus Christ is unique because He claimed to be THE only way to God the Father, THE light and THE life of this world. This much is true in the Holy Scriptures.

      That excerpt from the book didn't even mention saviour so we won't have to argue about it. However it rebuts your christian belief that Jesus is the only saviour. And buddha beat Jesus by 500++ years.

      Rubbish! Of course not, je je je. The Quran is way far behind compared to the power and eternal value of the Holy Bible. And of course, that Quranic question begs the question, actually. It criticises something through a literary means by basing its premises on what are already practised by Christians as of its writing, and then by adjudjing it beforehand as idolatry. Of course we Christians do not consider our worship of the Lord Jesus Christ as idolatry, for He is indeed God, nor do we consider our veneration of the Saints like Mary His Mother to be idolatry also, except to Protestants. The Quran begs the question, and in so doing falls on its logic itself. And so does to the other scriptures of other religions. Of course this is my own personal taste and opinion, so you just have to accept it.

      Of course for you it is rubbish because thats not what you believe in. However, you cannot answer the simple question posed by the Quran:

      "O Jesus, son of Mary, did you say to the people, `Make me and my mother idols beside GOD?'

      Where in the bible did Jesus say, I AM GOD WORSHIP ME?
      Well, the Hebrew for earth there at the last of the verse can also be rendered as land, ground, or world. So it may not necessarily refer to the whole planet earth. As such, my analogy stands.


      Deu 4:39 Know therefore this day, and lay it to thy heart, that Jehovah he is God in heaven above and upon the earth beneath; there is none else.

      still wanna insist?
      You do not actually need to elaborate why because, as I said above, I already know, je je je. And that ought to rather instill an appreciation of Saint Paul in you rather than murderous hatred because of all his prophetic insights regarding Muhammed and Islam which insights he did clearly elaborate and elucidate theologically in a beautiful letter to all of us Christians.

      Beautiful letter? Hehehe.. letters full of lies, inconsistencies and hypocrisies. Whether I believe in Muhammad or not, its still the same Paul. But you won't have any of it as you have shown in the other thread. Paul is a hypocrite. An anti-christ. Thats not hatred on my part. Thats the truth written in the bible.
      These are childish surmisings that any simple Christian Bible commentary can resolve. I hope you do attempt to read one in a library before asking questions here.

      Actually, you have refuted nothing at all. If you will only read and analyse my original post above, then you will learn and understand.

      Roel, don't you have anything better to say than that? Childish? Rubbish? Where is your reason? These are biblical verses written in simple english! Don't you have your own brain that you always point to commentaries? Can't you comment on your own? My God!!!!

      DO YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE JESUS? OR THE PRIESTS?

      Unbelievable. This is actually a christian phenomena.

      By the way roel, you can attack the Quran if you want to, if you really have read it. In another thread.
    • roelallenroelallen La Champe ?lys?enne PExer
      tonton wrote: »
      Not simple english?? You didn't even rebut my comparison of exodus and the new testament usage of I AM.

      Isn't it that the message of Jesus if FOR ALL TIME? Why do you need to look at the situation of the ancients? If so, then the bible is limited by time.

      Unfortunately, you seem to have a distaste for explanation coming from simple bible verses and have a knack for technical gobbledygook. Are those scholars who invented hermeneutics and the like, infallible? Are you throwing simple common sense out the window?

      That excerpt from the book didn't even mention saviour so we won't have to argue about it. However it rebuts your christian belief that Jesus is the only saviour. And buddha beat Jesus by 500++ years.

      Of course for you it is rubbish because thats not what you believe in. However, you cannot answer the simple question posed by the Quran:

      "O Jesus, son of Mary, did you say to the people, `Make me and my mother idols beside GOD?'

      Where in the bible did Jesus say, I AM GOD WORSHIP ME?

      Deu 4:39 Know therefore this day, and lay it to thy heart, that Jehovah he is God in heaven above and upon the earth beneath; there is none else.

      still wanna insist?

      Beautiful letter? Hehehe.. letters full of lies, inconsistencies and hypocrisies. Whether I believe in Muhammad or not, its still the same Paul. But you won't have any of it as you have shown in the other thread. Paul is a hypocrite. An anti-christ. Thats not hatred on my part. Thats the truth written in the bible.

      Roel, don't you have anything better to say than that? Childish? Rubbish? Where is your reason? These are biblical verses written in simple english! Don't you have your own brain that you always point to commentaries? Can't you comment on your own? My God!!!!

      DO YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE JESUS? OR THE PRIESTS?

      Unbelievable. This is actually a christian phenomena.

      By the way roel, you can attack the Quran if you want to, if you really have read it. In another thread.

      Please, do not attempt to confuse, because you actually can not.

      Trying to shade in bold what is not the intended meaning, and then trying to show it to be the intended meaning, attributing to the Buddha praises that the Buddha himself did not assert for him self, and misinterpreting verses of the Holy Bible, and then concatenating them by insidious but false logic, it is classic Islamic anti-Christian apologetics, and one that will simply fail.

      You still have refuted nothing.

      I thus reiterate all my previous posts.
    • X-windX-wind Emma Stone PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
      roelallen wrote: »
      Please, do not attempt to confuse, because you actually can not.

      Trying to shade in bold what is not the intended meaning, and then trying to show it to be the intended meaning, attributing to the Buddha praises that the Buddha himself did not assert for him self, and misinterpreting verses of the Holy Bible, and then concatenating them by insidious but false logic, it is classic Islamic anti-Christian apologetics, and one that will simply fail.

      You still have refuted nothing.

      I thus reiterate all my previous posts.

      out of context in short :glee: putting some verse to contradict others tsk tsk he didn't even bother to read the whole context.
    • roelallenroelallen La Champe ?lys?enne PExer
      X-wind wrote: »
      out of context in short :glee: putting some verse to contradict others tsk tsk he didn't even bother to read the whole context.

      Exactly. As I said, it is pure and classic anti-Christian Islamic apologetics. The kind that drove Osama bin Laden into a murderous madness.
    • tontontonton Let's stop and talk awhile. PExer
      roelallen wrote: »
      Please, do not attempt to confuse, because you actually can not.

      Trying to shade in bold what is not the intended meaning, and then trying to show it to be the intended meaning, attributing to the Buddha praises that the Buddha himself did not assert for him self, and misinterpreting verses of the Holy Bible, and then concatenating them by insidious but false logic, it is classic Islamic anti-Christian apologetics, and one that will simply fail.

      You still have refuted nothing.

      I thus reiterate all my previous posts.

      Don't say I have refuted nothing if you can't rebut it point by point. Mere assertion won't do anything.
    • roelallenroelallen La Champe ?lys?enne PExer
      tonton wrote: »
      Don't say I have refuted nothing if you can't rebut it point by point. Mere assertion won't do anything.

      There is nothing to rebut because, as I have repeatedly said, you have refuted nothing of my arguments in the first place.

      All you do is disregard important verses and then post other verses that seem to contradict other verses without analysing first those verses in context.

      I again reiterate all my original posts above. Hope you will read them and analyse them.

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