COMMUNITY NOTICE: If you are having trouble in your account access, please do send us a message at [email protected] for assistance.

Papal Succession and What the Catholic Church Needs

Sleepless6Sleepless6 Registered User PExer

I know it's a bit morbid, but given the importance, I think it's worth a lot of thought.

Two articles I have read about Papal Succession and the potential candidates:


http://www.time.com/time/daily/special/papacy/succession.html

http://europe.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1999/pope/overview/


Who would be best for the Catholic Church?

What kind of stance would you prefer on the following?

Women Priests (and a female Pope one day!)
Married Priests (more priests, less scandal?)
Contraception
Reliance on tradition/scripture vs. current reality
Ecumenism vs conversion
Intervention in poltical issues
Support for Liberaton Theology

How about a Jesuit pope, for once?

Perspectives anyone?



«134567

Comments

  • rowboatrowboat Member PExer
    Ahhh, difficult question for concerned Catholics! :)

    Personally, someone like John Paul II. Conservative in the essentials, yet conscious of helping the Church face modern-day challenges.

    I myself am not a very conservative Catholic. Yet I do think that the Pope should be conservative. And if God wills that "radical" changes take place, these will take place "despite" a conservative Pope. :)
  • Sleepless6Sleepless6 Registered User PExer
    But won't God likely make the changes through a more liberal Pope? :)

    I admit I am biased. I would prefer a more liberal Pope. I think the danger for the more urgent danger for the Church is lagging the times, not getting ahead of it.
  • Ginataang_susoGinataang_suso AYAWAWAY PExer
    Originally posted by Sleepless6


    What kind of stance would you prefer on the following?

    Women Priests (and a female Pope one day!)
    Married Priests (more priests, less scandal?)
    Contraception
    Reliance on tradition/scripture vs. current reality
    Ecumenism vs conversion
    Intervention in poltical issues
    Support for Liberaton Theology

    How about a Jesuit pope, for once?

    Perspectives anyone?



    i have'nt visited the sites yet, but i'll answer first these queries based on my opinion.

    1. female priest - negative (can't be, sorry for not quoting the exact verse but the lord i understand really down at women, he prefer men doing the apostolic work and the women the charity work. anybody form my church wants to debunk my claim are most welcome0

    2. married priest - negative (celibacy though is not a church dogma, but it is more of a disciplinary action, i believe, it makes the ordained more attentive to christ and his flock)

    3. contraception - affirmative (this is the hardest part, but i believe avery faithful should follow what the church direct us to do morally and spiritually. bear in mind that only rhythm method was acceptable to the churh and even "coitus interruprus" was a big nono. the church's explanation about sexual intercourse "among married couple" is that, it should be out of love and not lust. therefore, mating has an accompanying responsibility besides love and respect. don't get me wrong peeps, i'm not perfect, simply trying to be one. :D)

    4. Reliance on tradition/scripture vs. current reality - no conflict about the two (apostolic traditions, scripture and the present society are in jibe with each other. i personally don't see any conflict. sabi nga what we need these days is simply be more discernful and more prayerful to let god have his plans no strangers to us.)

    5. Ecumenism vs conversion - ecumenism/interfaith prayers and worhips are fine since there are many established religion or faith outside catholicism. conversion is still welcome if the faithful rightfully choses to do so.

    6. Intervention in poltical issues - it is very clear talking about the philppine situation. it is imminent to the church the definition of "politics of politics" and the "politics of morality". quite vague huh?!?

    the current government is guilty of a decaying morality that spreads to the whole country. are you bothered of the gov't propagating gambling, nepotism, cronyism and not telling the truth to the people?!?

    who do not sin cast thy first stone! yes, we're all sinners but the current moral situation of the president clearly affects the nation. ahhhhhhhhhh! mhc+, pray for us!

    5. Support for Liberaton Theology - very imminent in the present church.

    god bless!

    ERAP RESIGN! :D (sori di ko mapigil eh!)

  • Sleepless6Sleepless6 Registered User PExer

    1. female priest - Christ chose only Jews therefore must we have only Jews as priests? Are women inherently incapable of ministering as priests? Is this an example of tradition clashing with current reality?


    2. married priest - Tradition was many priests were married and many did commendable jobs. Are married men (or women!) inherently incapable of serving as priests? What if married men were simply given fewer responsibilities (similar to older priests) so they can still balance family life with the ministry?


    3. contraception - Does sex with love have to be equated with a larger risk of pregnancy? If a couple uses contraception, does the love manifested by the act diminish?


    4. liberation theology - There seems to be less than wholehearted support from the Vatican now. I quote from Britannica Encyclopedia:

    "...liberation theologians were often criticized within the Roman Catholic church... By the 1990s the Vatican, under Pope John Paul II, had begun trying to curb the movement's influence through the appointment of more conservative prelates in Brazil and elsewhere in Latin America."

    Should there be more support or not?
  • ascotascot Goldmember PExer
    interesting topic here.

    Hey, but here's something to think about. Granting that the Catholic Church would allow women priests and married priests, do you think they would be as effective as the celibate priests?

    I don't think so. This means that the priest has divided responsibilities with the Church and their own family. It will be hard for them to prioritize. They won't be able to serve the Church because they also have to pay attention to their kids, right?

    Regarding the papal succession issue, I just hope that the next person to fill JPII's shoes shares the same ideas and views with JPII, and may he be able to reach out to the flock as the Holy Father is doing.


  • ziggyboyziggyboy Member PExer
    Originally posted by Sleepless6
    3. contraception - Does sex with love have to be equated with a larger risk of pregnancy? If a couple uses contraception, does the love manifested by the act diminish?

    Well, put it this way, would you be having sex with your wife on a frequent basis if there was no pleasure to it? If sex was just a means for procreation and no pleasure AT ALL.

    Sex for PROCREATION ONLY!
  • Sleepless6Sleepless6 Registered User PExer
    Originally posted by ascot
    interesting topic here.

    Hey, but here's something to think about. Granting that the Catholic Church would allow women priests and married priests, do you think they would be as effective as the celibate priests?

    I don't think so. This means that the priest has divided responsibilities with the Church and their own family. It will be hard for them to prioritize. They won't be able to serve the Church because they also have to pay attention to their kids, right?


    True. Celibate priests on an individual level can probably give more attention to the flock. As a whole however, which would be more effective - a Catholic Church served only by celibate priests or a Catholic Church served by both celibate and married priests? Also, celibacy for priests is a relatively recent phenomenon, many priests (many becoming saints) in the past were married and did exemplary jobs. And this could easily be resolved by reducing the responsibilities of married priests the same way the Church reduces the responsibilities of older priests.

    I do think women priests can be as effective as their male counterparts. In fact, the best among the women can be far better than the many male priests right now. Why not give them a chance? :)

    Lastly, smart priests are more effective than priests of average intellect, should we thus prevent people of average intellect the opportunity to serve as priests because they are less effective?

    :)
  • ziggyboyziggyboy Member PExer
    Originally posted by Sleepless6
    True. Celibate priests on an individual level can probably give more attention to the flock. As a whole however, which would be more effective - a Catholic Church served only by celibate priests or a Catholic Church served by both celibate and married priests? Also, celibacy for priests is a relatively recent phenomenon, many priests (many becoming saints) in the past were married and did exemplary jobs. And this could easily be resolved by reducing the responsibilities of married priests the same way the Church reduces the responsibilities of older priests.

    I do think women priests can be as effective as their male counterparts. In fact, the best among the women can be far better than the many male priests right now. Why not give them a chance? :)

    As the two 'biggest' capital sins are lust and pride, most male priests would probably marry because they will have the option to. Take for instance pastors, in reality they can choose to be celibate if they wanted to but most of them have wives.

    The physical biology of the woman would matter a lot. Remember, back before the 19th century, a huge amount of priests were missionaries. Let's say by an unfortunate situation that a female priest gets pregnant (whether through sin or rape), what is she to do now? Abandon her obligations? The Church currently accepts seminarians that are not virgins, so what about unmarried women that have children? They have to accept them too?

    As you can see, having to accept females as priests can make complications. Simple and (you might think) trivial but it happens in real life. And not to mention the Canon Law would have to be fully revised a great deal.
  • rowboatrowboat Member PExer
    Originally posted by Sleepless6
    But won't God likely make the changes through a more liberal Pope? :)

    Actually, as I said, I'm not very conservative myself. Personally, for example, I think a lot more theological study must be done regarding contraception. And I also think that liberation theology should be taken more seriously by a greater majority of the Church (without underemphasizing the eschatological aspect of our faith).

    However ....

    This is the 21st century, and the trend in the secular world leads to greater relativism and liberalism. It's a pretty strong trend as well: at the "bottom" of the hierarchy--at the level of individual Catholics in Parishes--the pull towards liberalism and relativism is so strong. So much so that we see many modern-day Catholics have adopted an attitude of "kahit ano, okay lang, as long as you don't think it's wrong." I believe that we should let our conscience be our guide, but that phrase is often used as an excuse and rationalism; rather than as an admonition to really discern in silence the true movements of our conscience.

    Now, given that there is a trend towards relativism and liberalism, I think that the Church, as the guardian of faith and morals, should counter-act this trend with greater conservatism. Why? So that there can be a balance.

    "Radical" changes, I think, should be done with utmost caution, and should take the time necessary. Theologians have the duty to liberally explore those changes, and to bring them to the Magisterium. The Magisterium has the duty, I believe, to conservatively examine these theological developments.

    The proclamations that come from the hierarchy of the Church are rules; meaning, universal principles. And I personally think that rules should lean toward the conservative, because the application of these rules by individual people will naturally tend toward the liberal.

    And that's why I think we need a Pope who strikes a balance: who is conservative in the essentials, but very conscious of modern-day concerns. I think John Paul II is a good example. On the one hand, he has emphasized the importance of returning to the basic depository of our faith: Scripture and Sacred Tradition. On the other hand, he has emphasized the importance of allowing Scripture and Tradition to speak to the contemporary world; and so he has addressed very "modern" concerns, such as science and technology (including medical technology), globalization and relativism, and the need for social theology (although granted, perhaps not as much as previous Popes did).

    Well, that's just my opinion. :) Funny I should say all this. A few years ago, I was crossing my fingers for a Jesuit Pope. :lol: But perhaps ... the older I get, the more I recognize the importance of a strand of conservatism in all aspects of life. :lol:

    Which Pope was it, who said something like, "In the essentials, unity; in matters of doubt, liberalism." Or something like that.
  • Sleepless6Sleepless6 Registered User PExer
    Rowboat, did you mean St. Augustine... "In essentials, unity; in nonessentials, liberty; in all things, charity"
    (I might be mistaken!)

    However, I do agree with your point that the Church should be biased towards conservatism. The pull right now is definitely towards secularization and liberalism. And it's also easier to move towards conservatism/liberalism in sure and steady steps than go overboard and have to pull back later.

    On the other hand, the Church runs the risk of sliding into obsolesence if She fails to move with the times.

    The challenge I guess, is to find the right balance. Some would say the Church is too conservative, some would say it is too liberal.

    Ziggboy...
    Are you implying lust and pride are the two leadings causes of marriage?

    And that women should be banned from becoming missionaries (since they might get pregnant - especially if it was still the 19th century)?

    What happens when male priests become old and senile or get struck by debilitating diseases? Do they just give up their responsibilities? (I'd say yes -- but does that mean we should not have male priests?)


    :)

    Peace!
  • anticentipedeanticentipede IN GOD WE TRUST !! PExer
    Conservatism is best.
  • rowboatrowboat Member PExer
    Originally posted by Sleepless6
    Rowboat, did you mean St. Augustine... "In essentials, unity; in nonessentials, liberty; in all things, charity"
    (I might be mistaken!)

    Yeah, that sounds right! :) I think a recent Pope--one of the Pope Pauls, I think--quoted him, and that's where I picked it up.
    On the other hand, the Church runs the risk of sliding into obsolesence if She fails to move with the times.

    The challenge I guess, is to find the right balance.
    I agree. :)

    Related question. If the Pope becomes too weak to lead (sana naman hindi mangyari!), what are the options open to him? Papacy is usually until death, right? But I think there were times in the past wherein it wasn't necessarily the case. So I guess my question is, can the Pope "resign" if necessary? (for health reasons?)

    Sorry kung morbid. I really hope the Pope remains strong enough for a long time to come .... :)
  • Ginataang_susoGinataang_suso AYAWAWAY PExer
    ...if the pope is so weak, should he resign?!?

    the pope is a man of god, his vicar on earth. why do men always search for answers based in his/her human mind?!? leave it to god and the best thing for us to do is pray, he wouldn't forsake us even on "TRYING TIMES".

    sorry di ko pa nabasa yung ibang posts, i'll be back.

    (dami typo error don sa 1st comment ko medyo out of context tuloy yung no. 1 answer ko. it should be written this way "god didn't look down at women")

    [Edited by Ginataang_suso on 12-23-2000 at 07:58 PM]
  • omar21omar21 Member PExer
    A five year old post... perhaps more pertinent now.
  • Alt+Ctrl+DelAlt+Ctrl+Del Member PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    I'm itching to see what happens if the repressed Catholic Church reaches its sexual boiling point. :naughty:
  • arbeenarbeen super deformed PExer
    Sleepless6 wrote:
    I know it's a bit morbid, but given the importance, I think it's worth a lot of thought.

    Two articles I have read about Papal Succession and the potential candidates:


    http://www.time.com/time/daily/special/papacy/succession.html

    http://europe.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1999/pope/overview/


    Who would be best for the Catholic Church?

    What kind of stance would you prefer on the following?

    Women Priests (and a female Pope one day!)
    Married Priests (more priests, less scandal?)
    Contraception
    Reliance on tradition/scripture vs. current reality
    Ecumenism vs conversion
    Intervention in poltical issues
    Support for Liberaton Theology

    How about a Jesuit pope, for once?

    Perspectives anyone?

    hehe... the possibility for a jesuit pope would be next to impossible. hehe. marami raw kagalit ang mga heswita. hehe... galing na rin yan sa mga kakilala kong heswita. basta medyo malabo raw yun.

    i think the idea of a married priest might be hard. a parish priest may be assigned to anywhere and does not have a stable income. he also has to take care of his parishioners, etc. but, let's say that the catholic church introduces tithing. the parish, however, still has lots of expenses: salary for the office workers, electricity, food, etc. besides, the vow of chastity is a choice alongside obedience and poverty. (trivia: jesuits have a fourth vow. obedience to the pope) anyway, it's my opinion. hehe...

    usually (raw), those who are being publicized by the media are those that don't get to be elected as pope. hehe...

    on reliance on scripture and tradition vs reality. i can only say that the Truth will always be there and will never change, only the point of view of people. parang yung view about earth being the center of the solar system vs the sun as center of the solar system. andun na talaga ang katotohanang ang sun ang center ng solar system. anyway...
  • arbeenarbeen super deformed PExer
    ziggyboy wrote:
    The physical biology of the woman would matter a lot. Remember, back before the 19th century, a huge amount of priests were missionaries. Let's say by an unfortunate situation that a female priest gets pregnant (whether through sin or rape), what is she to do now? Abandon her obligations? The Church currently accepts seminarians that are not virgins, so what about unmarried women that have children? They have to accept them too?

    gawin na lang nating lalaki...

    have you watched the bachelor? basta yung kay chris o donnell. the priest there is a widow and has children. i asked some jesuits i know and they said it is really possible for him to become a priest provided that he already has no obligation to his family. in the movie's case, the children can support themselves and his wife is already dead. but, anybody can still correct me if i'm wrong. hehe..
  • arbeenarbeen super deformed PExer
    ...if the pope is so weak, should he resign?!?

    the pope is a man of god, his vicar on earth. why do men always search for answers based in his/her human mind?!? leave it to god and the best thing for us to do is pray, he wouldn't forsake us even on "TRYING TIMES".

    sorry di ko pa nabasa yung ibang posts, i'll be back.

    (dami typo error don sa 1st comment ko medyo out of context tuloy yung no. 1 answer ko. it should be written this way "god didn't look down at women")

    [Edited by Ginataang_suso on 12-23-2000 at 07:58 PM]

    pope john paul II considered resigning. but i guess, it really is up to the pope.

    a bigger problem would be what if a pope goes into coma? the pope is not dead so the cardinals cannot elect a new pope. although the pope is alive, he is in a vegetative state. i learned from a friend who is taking up pre-divinity course in ateneo (divine na siya after. hahahaha) that there are (still) no provisions in the canon law with regard to this case/scenario.
  • maxsterlingmaxsterling Member PExer
    arbeen wrote:
    gawin na lang nating lalaki...

    have you watched the bachelor? basta yung kay chris o donnell. the priest there is a widow and has children. i asked some jesuits i know and they said it is really possible for him to become a priest provided that he already has no obligation to his family. in the movie's case, the children can support themselves and his wife is already dead. but, anybody can still correct me if i'm wrong. hehe..

    Yes, ma'am, that happens. :)
  • pollywogpollywog ...just because PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    ...the RCC is soooo outdated imho. Hello?! We're now in the 21st century, but still, the church seems to be burried in the medieval ages!

    Rivals for papacy: Religious orders and regular clergy
    http://news.inq7.net/nation/index.php?index=1&story_id=33891

    Papal infallibility, and a mixture of beliefs
    http://news.inq7.net/viewpoints/index.php?index=1&story_id=33095

    John Paul II on family and women
    http://news.inq7.net/opinion/index.php?index=4&story_id=33231

    Has he failed to cross the threshold of hope for women?
    http://news.inq7.net/opinion/index.php?index=4&story_id=33233

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file