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Why don't we make the worship of the Catholic Church lively?

Gospel of JudasGospel of Judas The Lost Gospel PExer
I just noticed that masyadong sad and boring yung Mass celebration natin which is ironic to the happy and simple lifestyle of the founder of the Church which is Jesus. Sa mga Born Again and El Shaddai, lively ang celebration nila. May food, lively singing, dancing and stuff. Sa Catholic Church parang wala eh.

It has transformed from LITURGY to LETHARGY. So what do you think, do we need to transform the celebration in the Catholic Church more lively?
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Comments

  • bny888bny888 scoundrel PExer
    catholic naman ang el shaddai di ba?
  • JongaJonga Banned by Admin PExer
    lively meaning jumping, screaming, doing those silly choreography? you wish... :glee:

    GOD is dead
  • i agree. sobrang nakaka-antok magsimba.
  • Add that to the fact that Pope Benedict XVI is moving the Catholic Church to be held in the Latin Language. Eh jusme, yung mass in our own vernacular na nga natin eh tinutulugan pa ng iba eh papaano pa kaya yung Eucharistic Celebration held in Latin?

    But I get Judas' point. It's a Eucharistic CELEBRATION. Saan ka naman nakakakita ng celebration na lalamya-lamya ang mga tao? Pag-kanta na lang eh parang pinatay na nila ang essence ng celebration. Probably this an overdose of the the neo-scholasticism na dapat seryoso lahat.

    Even the founder of the Church himself was a jolly man and celebrated even the simple joys of life.
  • nicolai_franknicolai_frank Christ, Cross, Catholic PExer
    I just noticed that masyadong sad and boring yung Mass celebration natin which is ironic to the happy and simple lifestyle of the founder of the Church which is Jesus. Sa mga Born Again and El Shaddai, lively ang celebration nila. May food, lively singing, dancing and stuff. Sa Catholic Church parang wala eh.

    It has transformed from LITURGY to LETHARGY. So what do you think, do we need to transform the celebration in the Catholic Church more lively?

    The Mass is the commemoration of the crucifixion and the death of the Lord.

    You are not to attend the Mass to find lively entertainment. Otherwise, you go to the disco clubs.
  • nicolai_franknicolai_frank Christ, Cross, Catholic PExer
    Katchatore wrote: »
    Add that to the fact that Pope Benedict XVI is moving the Catholic Church to be held in the Latin Language. Eh jusme, yung mass in our own vernacular na nga natin eh tinutulugan pa ng iba eh papaano pa kaya yung Eucharistic Celebration held in Latin?

    But I get Judas' point. It's a Eucharistic CELEBRATION. Saan ka naman nakakakita ng celebration na lalamya-lamya ang mga tao? Pag-kanta na lang eh parang pinatay na nila ang essence ng celebration. Probably this an overdose of the the neo-scholasticism na dapat seryoso lahat.

    Even the founder of the Church himself was a jolly man and celebrated even the simple joys of life.

    Misunderstanding of the term which led to misapplication thereof.
  • The Mass is the commemoration of the crucifixion and the death of the Lord.
    You are not to attend the Mass to find lively entertainment. Otherwise, you go to the disco clubs
    .

    I see? nakaattend ako sa born again church, ang saya saya nila dun, so hindi pala dapat huh?
  • nicolai_franknicolai_frank Christ, Cross, Catholic PExer
    .

    I see? nakaattend ako sa born again church, ang saya saya nila dun, so hindi pala dapat huh?

    The question is: Is it the Mass that the born again are doing?

    You know, there is no problem with lively worshipping of God. But during the commemoration of the crucifixion and death of Christ, it must be done with solemnity. The celebration cannot be solemn with drums all over the place.
  • haLeberdhaLeberd COYG! PExer
    ^ isn't it that the mass is in commemoration and celebration of the Last Supper and the redemption of all humankind from the horrors of evil...something like that...

    Sure, we tend to focus on the crucifixion, but in reality, the center of the liturgy is about the teachings of Christ and, believe it or not, the resurrection of Christ... at least, that's what my theology teacher taught us.. :D

    i get what nicolai_frank is trying to tell us. The solemnity of the mass must be maintained otherwise, others won't consider it holy anymore. But isn't there a way para maging "masaya" ang mass? I mean...tulad nga ng sinabi ng mga nauna nagpost sa akin...it is a "celebration"....??

    off-topic: really now? Pope Benedict XVI is reinstating the tridentine (tama ba ang spelling?) mass??
  • roelallenroelallen La Champe ?lys?enne PExer
    Jonga wrote: »
    lively meaning jumping, screaming, doing those silly choreography? you wish... :glee:

    GOD is dead

    The Holy Mass is not just a sacred supper commemorating the passion and death of the Lord Jesus Christ, which commemoration He did command all of His followers to do often in remembrance of Him until His Second Coming, and which commemoration is not actually a festive, neither a jolly, affair.

    The Holy Mass, as all other rituals of the Christian Churches, is an extremely holy thing, for it is the highest form of worship that a Roman Catholic can ever perform towards God the Father. Being thus holy, all participants therein are called towards an attitude that befits the holiness and majesty of the Lord.

    One human instinctive response towards holiness is awe coupled with quietness and silence. "Be still, and know that I am God", the Lord tells us in one of the prophecies of Isaiah. The things that be of God and of heaven cannot be taken lightly.

    There is much good in the suggestion of enlivening the Holy Mass with more festive, noisy, and moving props and gestures, but the vagaries, propensities, and inclinations of human nature warn toward such an absolute end. People will rely more on the outward atmosphere and ambiance of the Holy Mass and not on its true, inward and essential aspect of holy praise and thanksgiving to the Lord.

    People will be apt to criticise the singers, the music, the colours of the vestments, the participations of the congregation, the human actions that they perform therein, and thus sacrifice and compromise the heavier matters of piety which are righteousness, holiness, peace, and love.

    My personal wish and desire is actually the opposite direction of the thread maker here: that there is an immediate and essential need for all of us Christians to go back to the basics, to the old ways, to the more solemn and more quiet celebrations of the Holy Mass that can now be seen only in Greek Orthodox celebrations of the same. The recent Latinization of the vernacular Holy Mass and the trend towards a going back to the pre-Vatican Council II Mass as illustrated by the recent actions of Pope Benedict XVI is an illustration of this that is highly welcome to me.

    I wish and actually desire that our Masses would be more solemn and longer and quiet than that which we have today, and that it would more and more gravitate towards the Mediaeval hymns and liturgies such as the use of the Gregorian hymn (meaning a cappella, which ought to remove musical electronic gadgets from the Holy Mass), and return to its more solemn, more quiet, and more holy rendition as in the Tridentine Mass.

    The priest however facing the congregation, and not having his back to the congregation as in the Tridentine Mass, should be preserved as the better form.

    In the end, our worship is actually in the heart and mind and spirit. But although such is the case, external environments and ambiance of worship and praise do influence the praise and worship made.

    Finally, God is not dead. He is the living God. He is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

    For He is the light, and the life, of this world.
  • roelallenroelallen La Champe ?lys?enne PExer
    Our ability to seek, recognize, and reverence the holy above the profane, and the sacred above the secular, defines our spirituality.

    In answer to Pilate’s question “Art thou the King of the Jews?” the Saviour answered, “My kingdom is not of this world” (John 18:33, 36). With these few words, Jesus declares His kingdom independent and distinct from this world. The Saviour’s teachings, doctrine, and personal example lift all who truly believe in Him to a divine standard that requires both eye and mind be single to the glory of God. The glory of God encompasses all that is holy and sacred. Our ability to seek, recognize, and reverence the holy above the profane, and the sacred above the secular, defines our spirituality. Indeed, without the holy and sacred, we are left with only the profane and secular.

    Amidst the bustle of the secular world, with its certain uncertainty, there must be places that offer spiritual refuge, renewal, hope, and peace. There are indeed such places. They are both holy and sacred. They are places where we meet the divine and find the Spirit of the Lord.

    The Lord in the Scriptures counsels His people to “stand in holy places”. The context of His counsel is all the more significant as we look at the current condition of our world. Desolating disease, persecution, and war have an all-too-familiar face and have imposed themselves into our daily experience. In the face of such perplexing problems, the Lord counsels, “Behold, it is my will, that all they who call on My name, and worship Me according to Mine everlasting Gospel, should gather together, and stand in holy places”.

    Holy places have always been essential to the proper worship of God. For Christians, such holy places include venues of historic significance, our homes, the sacraments, churches, chapels, oratories, convents, temples, shrines, cathedrals, and basilicas. Much of what we reverence, and what we teach our children to reverence as holy and sacred, is reflected in these places. The faith and reverence associated with them and the respect we have for what transpires or has transpired in them make them holy. The importance of holy places and sacred space in our worship can hardly be overestimated.

    Great personal preparation is required for us to receive the spiritual benefit of standing in holy places. Holy places and sacred space are also distinguished by the sacrifice they require. A Christian leader has taught that “the word 'sacrifice' means literally ‘to make sacred’, or ‘to render sacred’”. The words sacred and sacrifice come from the same root. One may not have the sacred without first sacrificing something for it. There can be no sacredness without personal sacrifice. Sacrifice sanctifies the sacred.

    Some months ago on a beautiful late fall day, I sat in a shrine. It was indeed beautiful, and I did enjoy the solitary peace I found there. However, it was significantly more than that, for I sat in the immediate vicinity where Jesus Christ is revered. Our faith in, and our reverence for, the Lord transformed this beautiful spot into sacred space and a holy place.

    Similar deep and reverent feelings are aroused by other sacred places across the earth relating to the history and establishment of the Church. These sacred places inspire our faith and give us encouragement to be true to that faith and to move forward, despite the challenges that may cross our path.

    Our homes, likewise, are holy places filled with sacred space. Though not always tranquil, our homes can be filled with the Spirit of the Lord. A Christian Church taught that “Happiness in family life is most likely to be achieved when founded upon the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. Successful marriages and families are established and maintained on principles of faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work, and wholesome recreational activities”.

    Such a home does require personal sacrifice. To us the Lord says, “Your family must needs repent and forsake some things”. Each of our families is confronted with a broad menu of activities and entertainment, not all of which is wholesome and good — and much of which is certainly not necessary. Like the family of Christian saints, do our families also need to repent and forsake some things to help us maintain the sacred nature of our homes? The establishment of our homes as holy places reflects the depth of sacrifice we are willing to make for them.

    Church meetings, rituals, and celebrations are really more than just that. They are sacred moments in a holy place. During these moments, we reflect on the most merciful act of sacrifice this world has ever known. We ponder the love of God, who gave His Only Begotten Son that we might obtain eternal life. As we participate in and partake of the sacraments, especially the Holy Mass, we remember Him and express our willingness to take His name upon us and to keep His commandments. Careful personal preparation, including our own sacrifice of a broken heart and contrite spirit, is prerequisite to the regular spiritual renewal offered through worthy participation. We must be willing and capable of slipping away from the world for just a few moments in order to reflect on holier things. Without this spiritual renewal, our faith is easily overcome by the secular and profane.

    Many years ago when our boys were still very young, I made a remark at dinner regarding the excellence of our Church meetings and how much I had learned. Their response was a look that told me that they were not sure that we had even been in the same meeting. The difference between my experience and theirs was simply one of a little maturity and personal preparation. The spiritual renewal we receive from our sacraments will not exceed our preparation and our willingness and desire to be taught.

    The churches and cathedrals, with the holiness of the Lord inscribed on them, are among the most sacred of all places on the earth. They stand as evidence of God’s love to all His children, past and present. The blessings of the churches are intertwined and inseparable from significant sacrifice. The sacraments and rites performed therein provide access to the full expression of the Saviour’s atoning sacrifice. This alone would qualify our churches as holy and sacred. However, personal sacrifice is also required. We sacrifice time in search for our lost brothers and sisters and time to attend to our church responsibilities, especially on Sundays. We also strive to live the highest standards of personal worthiness, which qualify us to enter the sacred space of this most holy place.

    In holy places and in sacred spaces we find spiritual refuge, renewal, hope, and peace. Are these not worth every necessary personal sacrifice? My brothers and sisters, may each of us revere and respect the holy and sacred in our lives. May we teach our children likewise. Let us all stand in holy and sacred places of spiritual peace.

    For the Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, He is the very Prince of Peace and Hope that calls us to a life of reverence, holiness, and awe.
  • nicolai_franknicolai_frank Christ, Cross, Catholic PExer
    haLeberd wrote: »
    ^ isn't it that the mass is in commemoration and celebration of the Last Supper and the redemption of all humankind from the horrors of evil...something like that...

    Yes and that redemption was fulfilled through his death on the cross.
    haLeberd wrote: »
    Sure, we tend to focus on the crucifixion, but in reality, the center of the liturgy is about the teachings of Christ and, believe it or not, the resurrection of Christ... at least, that's what my theology teacher taught us.. :D

    I agree.
    haLeberd wrote: »
    i get what nicolai_frank is trying to tell us. The solemnity of the mass must be maintained otherwise, others won't consider it holy anymore. But isn't there a way para maging "masaya" ang mass? I mean...tulad nga ng sinabi ng mga nauna nagpost sa akin...it is a "celebration"....??

    So what do you mean by "masaya"? And what is your understanding of celebration? Does it have to have drums and other musical instruments and does it have to be lively the way you want it to be?

    Do you equate the word "masaya" with lively entertainment? And do you think "kasiyahan" is the aim of the Mass?

    When I go to the Church to attend the Mass, I am happy to sing the song of praises like the Gloria. I am happy to be part of the celebration which to me remains a celebration despite the absence of drums and other musical instruments.

    Now, posters here claimed that they feel sleepy because the celebration is not lively and so boring. I am tempted to question your love for God. I will not reach that far. But I say, if you love God, you will never feel bored in celebrating his death that saved the whole humanity.
    haLeberd wrote: »
    off-topic: really now? Pope Benedict XVI is reinstating the tridentine (tama ba ang spelling?) mass??
  • praiseandpraiseand Member PExer
    You know, there is no problem with lively worshipping of God. But during the commemoration of the crucifixion and death of Christ, it must be done with solemnity.

    Aren't we supposed to wear happy faces and lively disposition when we commemorate Christ's death and crucifixion? After all, his death and crucifixion made us alive. Won't it be ironic if we look mournful while celebrating those events?
    The celebration cannot be solemn with drums all over the place.

    So can we have a solemn celebration using other musical instruments except the drums?
  • nicolai_franknicolai_frank Christ, Cross, Catholic PExer
    praiseand wrote: »
    Aren't we supposed to wear happy faces and lively disposition when we commemorate Christ's death and crucifixion? After all, his death and crucifixion made us alive. Won't it be ironic if we look mournful while celebrating those events?

    I have no objection on wearing happy faces. We need not be funereal in the celebration of the Lord's death. What I said was that we have to maintain the solemnity of the celebration and this is not possible with drums all over the place.

    praiseand wrote: »
    So can we have a solemn celebration using other musical instruments except the drums?

    With pianos and organs, I believe so.
  • AnonymouzAnonymouz Banned by Admin PExer
    Catholic Mass: ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz :zzz:
  • It's tough being lively when your symbol is a guy being crucified. How bout changing it to another symbol like a gold calf for instance. PARTAY!!!
    <br> Priest: "Go in pieces, the mass hysteria has ended.":D
  • MilliardoMilliardo Team Valor PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    I just noticed that masyadong sad and boring yung Mass celebration natin which is ironic to the happy and simple lifestyle of the founder of the Church which is Jesus. Sa mga Born Again and El Shaddai, lively ang celebration nila. May food, lively singing, dancing and stuff. Sa Catholic Church parang wala eh.

    It has transformed from LITURGY to LETHARGY. So what do you think, do we need to transform the celebration in the Catholic Church more lively?

    Right worship isn't about what we want, but rather what God wants. Jumping, clapping, waving hands, etc. are all nice, but is this the worship given to us by the Lord? As Scott Hahn rightly said, it is not about what we want in worship--the focus being the self, but rather what God wants in worship. So the Mass focuses on what God wants in worship, not what we want what worship should be.
  • praiseandpraiseand Member PExer
    Milliardo wrote: »
    Jumping, clapping, waving hands, etc. are all nice, but is this the worship given to us by the Lord?

    You mean God prohibits us from jumping, clapping, waving our hands when we worship Him because that's not the way He wants us to worship Him?

    And when we clap our hands, dance, wave our hands in singing to the Lord, does it follow that we are focusing on ourselves and not to God?

    I think there should be no hard and fast rule in the way we worship our God as long as it comes from our hearts. Even King David made himself look like a fool when He worshiped his God. When the "stones" will start worshiping God because nobody no longer does, we have no right to stop them just because they are "stones". God will accept their worship.
  • SAINT DESTROYERSAINT DESTROYER lolo pexer PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    This is the problem with the church... the battle between traditionalists and reformists.. I believe that institutionalizing the church was a bad idea. It created disunity than cooperativeness. The relationship between Man and his Creator is slowly deteriorating. All God wants is to enjoy his/her relationship with humans but what do we do its either we question his authenticity or we impose our beliefs on our fellow human beings. The "leaders" have turned a deaf ear to changes that people suggest. If you say something against them they will charge you with blasphemy or even excommunicate you.. Has God excommunicated his/her creations? (Don't answer me with the adam and eve story, its not real its just a description of how the world came to be). On the other hand we who are so called "catholics" are at fault too. We tend to be too stubborn to show our love and devotion to him/her. We also tend to disregard his/her teachings.The practice of love one's neighbor is slowly dying. We also complain too much. If something within the mass is changed, we complain. If nothing is changed we complain too. My point: making the catholic church worship more lively is pointless, am 100% sure not all people would want to clap or dance during the mass but the church should look into accepting and allowing radical changes to the celebration of the Eucharist. They should look into having more personal prayers during masses, not some ready made prayers that are repeatedly said during the celebration. Priest should be allowed to improvise their prayers before communion. Kung pwede lang tanggalin na yung binabasa nila. A heartfelt prayer would make a big difference. Catholics should not be afraid of Change, Christ himself created changes. Pasalamat nga tayo wala siya dito ngayon kundi lahat tayo natawg na hippocrite like the scribes...


    Pahabol: I think it is better if the Eucharistic celebration will be better if it will be commemorated based on the fact that God came down to be with the people, died for them, and rose up over death.. It did not end with his death thus the Eucharist should give thanks and not always commemorate his death...
  • nicolai_franknicolai_frank Christ, Cross, Catholic PExer
    This is the problem with the church... the battle between traditionalists and reformists.. I believe that institutionalizing the church was a bad idea. It created disunity than cooperativeness.

    With or without institutionalizing the Church, disunity has always been there. Jesus did not promise that his Church would not have disunity among the members. However, he promised that the Church will always be strong as it is built upon the rock.
    The relationship between Man and his Creator is slowly deteriorating. All God wants is to enjoy his/her relationship with humans but what do we do its either we question his authenticity or we impose our beliefs on our fellow human beings. The "leaders" have turned a deaf ear to changes that people suggest. If you say something against them they will charge you with blasphemy or even excommunicate you.. Has God excommunicated his/her creations? (Don't answer me with the adam and eve story, its not real its just a description of how the world came to be).

    Jesus said that he who does not listen to the Church shall be considered a tax collector, a stranger.

    By the way, opposing the authority of the Church is not blasphemy, in my humble opinion.
    On the other hand we who are so called "catholics" are at fault too. We tend to be too stubborn to show our love and devotion to him/her. We also tend to disregard his/her teachings.The practice of love one's neighbor is slowly dying. We also complain too much. If something within the mass is changed, we complain. If nothing is changed we complain too. My point: making the catholic church worship more lively is pointless, am 100% sure not all people would want to clap or dance during the mass but the church should look into accepting and allowing radical changes to the celebration of the Eucharist. They should look into having more personal prayers during masses, not some ready made prayers that are repeatedly said during the celebration.

    Mass attendants are not barred from making personal prayers.
    Priest should be allowed to improvise their prayers before communion. Kung pwede lang tanggalin na yung binabasa nila. A heartfelt prayer would make a big difference. Catholics should not be afraid of Change, Christ himself created changes. Pasalamat nga tayo wala siya dito ngayon kundi lahat tayo natawg na hippocrite like the scribes...

    What do you mean by "improvise"? That the priests invent their own prayers outside of the Roman Missal?

    I do not think that reading prayers are less heartfelt than other forms of prayers.
    Pahabol: I think it is better if the Eucharistic celebration will be better if it will be commemorated based on the fact that God came down to be with the people, died for them, and rose up over death.. It did not end with his death thus the Eucharist should give thanks and not always commemorate his death...

    Eucharistic celebration is at its best. It needs no improvement.

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