Understanding Motorcycle Riders
Aranda_Bay
Banned by Admin
A lot of cage drivers (car drivers) hate motorcycle riders because of the impression that motorcycle riders are undisciplined (pasaway) and appear smaller than they are on the road. This prejudice, like all prejudices stem from fear which is stems from a lack of understanding. We fear/hate what we do not know. Below are some insight on the Characteristics of Motorcycles in Traffic
What all drivers should know
1 . M o t o rcyclists often slow by downshifting or merely rolling off the throttle, thus not activating the brake light. Allow more following distance, say 3 or 4 seconds. At intersections, predict a motorcyclist may slow down without visual warn i n g .
2 . Turn signals on a motorcycle usually are not self-canceling, thus some riders, (especially beginners) sometimes forget to turn them off after a turn or lane change. Make sure a motorc y c l e s signal is for real .
3 . M o t o rcyclists often adjust position within a lane to be seen more easily and to minimize the effects of wind, road debris, and passing vehicles. Understand that m o t o rcyclists adjust lane position for a purpose, not to be reckless or show off .
4 . Because of its small size a motorcycle seems to be moving faster than it really is. D o n t think motorcyclists are speed demons.
5 . Because of its small size, a motorcycle may look farther away than it is. When checking traffic to turn at an intersection, predict a motorcycle is closer than it looks.
6 . Because of its small size, a motorcycle can be easily hidden by objects inside or outside a car (door posts, mirrors, passengers, bushes, fences, bridges, blindspots, etc). Take an extra moment to thoroughly check traffic, whether youre changing lanes or turning at intersections.
7 . Stopping distance for motorcycles is nearly the same as for cars, but slippery pavement makes quick stopping difficult. Allow a motorcyclist more following distance because it cant always stop on a dime.
8 . Maneuverability is one of a motorc y c l e s better characteristics, but only at slower speeds and with good road conditions. Dont expect a motorcyclist to always be able to dodge out of the way.
9 . C a rrying a passenger complicates a motorc y c l i s t s task. Balance is more diff i c u l t . Stopping distance is increased. Maneuverability is reduced. Predict more problems when you see two on a motorcycle, especially near intersections.
1 0 . M i rrors are smaller on a motorcycle and are usually convex, thus giving a motorcyclist a smaller image of you and making you seem farther back than you really are. Keep at least a three or four second space cushion when following a motorcyclist.
1 1 . T h e re are a lot more cars and trucks than motorcycles on the road, and some drivers dont recognize a motorcycle and ignore it (usually unintentionally). Look for motorcycles, especially when checking traffic at an intersection.
1 2 . At night, single headlights and taillights of motorcycles can blend into the lights of other traffic. Those odd lights could be a motorc y c l e .
1 3 . When a motorcycle is in motion, dont think of it as motorcycle; think of it as
a person.
source: pasmp.com
And to add:
Cage drivers tend to bully motorcycle riders with excessive honking, beeping and cursing. Cagers sometimes realize it too late that size differences are only limited to their vehicles and would often stand face to face with a 6ft 200lb pissed rider.
What all drivers should know
1 . M o t o rcyclists often slow by downshifting or merely rolling off the throttle, thus not activating the brake light. Allow more following distance, say 3 or 4 seconds. At intersections, predict a motorcyclist may slow down without visual warn i n g .
2 . Turn signals on a motorcycle usually are not self-canceling, thus some riders, (especially beginners) sometimes forget to turn them off after a turn or lane change. Make sure a motorc y c l e s signal is for real .
3 . M o t o rcyclists often adjust position within a lane to be seen more easily and to minimize the effects of wind, road debris, and passing vehicles. Understand that m o t o rcyclists adjust lane position for a purpose, not to be reckless or show off .
4 . Because of its small size a motorcycle seems to be moving faster than it really is. D o n t think motorcyclists are speed demons.
5 . Because of its small size, a motorcycle may look farther away than it is. When checking traffic to turn at an intersection, predict a motorcycle is closer than it looks.
6 . Because of its small size, a motorcycle can be easily hidden by objects inside or outside a car (door posts, mirrors, passengers, bushes, fences, bridges, blindspots, etc). Take an extra moment to thoroughly check traffic, whether youre changing lanes or turning at intersections.
7 . Stopping distance for motorcycles is nearly the same as for cars, but slippery pavement makes quick stopping difficult. Allow a motorcyclist more following distance because it cant always stop on a dime.
8 . Maneuverability is one of a motorc y c l e s better characteristics, but only at slower speeds and with good road conditions. Dont expect a motorcyclist to always be able to dodge out of the way.
9 . C a rrying a passenger complicates a motorc y c l i s t s task. Balance is more diff i c u l t . Stopping distance is increased. Maneuverability is reduced. Predict more problems when you see two on a motorcycle, especially near intersections.
1 0 . M i rrors are smaller on a motorcycle and are usually convex, thus giving a motorcyclist a smaller image of you and making you seem farther back than you really are. Keep at least a three or four second space cushion when following a motorcyclist.
1 1 . T h e re are a lot more cars and trucks than motorcycles on the road, and some drivers dont recognize a motorcycle and ignore it (usually unintentionally). Look for motorcycles, especially when checking traffic at an intersection.
1 2 . At night, single headlights and taillights of motorcycles can blend into the lights of other traffic. Those odd lights could be a motorc y c l e .
1 3 . When a motorcycle is in motion, dont think of it as motorcycle; think of it as
a person.
source: pasmp.com
And to add:
Cage drivers tend to bully motorcycle riders with excessive honking, beeping and cursing. Cagers sometimes realize it too late that size differences are only limited to their vehicles and would often stand face to face with a 6ft 200lb pissed rider.
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Comments
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Even cage drivers do that too, though not necessarily down shift but slows down using the engine. "Engine breaking" we call it. Just because it can be done that way does it mean it is the right thing to do. And cage drivers should be given lessons in that as well.Aranda_Bay wrote: »1 . Motorcyclists often slow by downshifting or merely rolling off the throttle, thus not activating the brake light. Allow more following distance, say 3 or 4 seconds. At intersections, predict a motorcyclist may slow down without visual warning .
2 . Turn signals on a motorcycle usually are not self-canceling, thus some riders, (especially beginners) sometimes forget to turn them off after a turn or lane change. Make sure a motorc y c l e s signal is for real .
Riders should understand that the universal norm in traffic is to alert anybody in the environment of your intention.
Being a motorcycle does not exempt them from this safety rule. Stop light if you intend to stop, Turn light if you intend to turn.
Motorcyclist are visibly fine if they just stick to their lanes. Cage drivers are penalized for those maneuvers, they call it "swerving". If they stick to their line, they remove the "unpredictability" reducing danger of being run over.Aranda_Bay wrote: »3 . Motorcyclists often adjust position within a lane to be seen more easily and to minimize the effects of wind, road debris, and passing vehicles. Understand that motorcyclists adjust lane position for a purpose, not to be reckless or show off .
Riders swerve to take advantage of their narrow dimensions. They actually believe the yellow line in the middle of the road is the motorcycle lane.Aranda_Bay wrote: »4 . Because of its small size a motorcycle seems to be moving faster than it really is. Dont think motorcyclists are speed demons.
Which is faster the car or the motorcycle that cut in it's driving lane?
Being a motorcycle does not give it permission to beat the red light or not follow intersection rules.Aranda_Bay wrote: »5 . Because of its small size, a motorcycle may look farther away than it is. When checking traffic to turn at an intersection, predict a motorcycle is closer than it looks.
YIELD means the perpendicular has the right of way.
Unmarked intersections are first to STOP, first to GO. It doesn't mean, first to STOP, motorcycles GO.
Which is exactly the reason why they should be in the middle of the driving lane, so that they are clearly visible to other drivers.Aranda_Bay wrote: »6 . Because of its small size, a motorcycle can be easily hidden by objects inside or outside a car (door posts, mirrors, passengers, bushes, fences, bridges, blindspots, etc). Take an extra moment to thoroughly check traffic, whether youre changing lanes or turning at intersections.
Drivers should know the parameters of their vehicle, motorcycles included. If their stopping distance is long, then break earlier. Being a motorcycle does not exempt them from following proper breaking procedures.Aranda_Bay wrote: »7 . Stopping distance for motorcycles is nearly the same as for cars, but slippery pavement makes quick stopping difficult. Allow a motorcyclist more following distance because it cant always stop on a dime.
And they shouldn't. If they have the right of way, they should stick to it or follow the proper lane change procedures, signal lights and all.Aranda_Bay wrote: »8 . Maneuverability is one of a motorcycle s better characteristics, but only at slower speeds and with good road conditions. Dont expect a motorcyclist to always be able to dodge out of the way.Aranda_Bay wrote: »9 . Carrying a passenger complicates a motorcyclists task. Balance is more difficult . Stopping distance is increased. Maneuverability is reduced. Predict more problems when you see two on a motorcycle, especially near intersections.
Again, it is also the responsibility of the rider to modify his driving to fit the change in riding conditions. Even drivers of 4-wheeled cages as you call them change their driving when their vehicle is carrying heavy loads.Aranda_Bay wrote: »
A significant number of motorcycles DONT HAVE MIRRORS. Some have mirrors but are folded.Aranda_Bay wrote: »10 . Mirrors are smaller on a motorcycle and are usually convex, thus giving a motorcyclist a smaller image of you and making you seem farther back than you really are. Keep at least a three or four second space cushion when following a motorcyclist.
And the same argument should be followed with motorcycles and even people.Aranda_Bay wrote: »11. There are a lot more cars and trucks than motorcycles on the road, and some drivers dont recognize a motorcycle and ignore it (usually unintentionally). Look for motorcycles, especially when checking traffic at an intersection.
Look both ways before crossing the street is a universal rule.
True, and they should be turned ON on all vehicles AT NIGHT. Some 4-week vehicles have this non compliance too, with jeepneys running at night with lights turned off.Aranda_Bay wrote: »12 . At night, single headlights and taillights of motorcycles can blend into the lights of other traffic. Those odd lights could be a motorcycle .
But headlights are head light. Body light, under chassis lights are not headlights.
This goes for all riders and drivers. The old Filipino adage "Ang naglalakad ng matulin, kung matinik ay malalim" is very apt. Riders don't have the added protection of cages and should therefore be very careful in traffic. Traffic safety regulations are there for their safety as well (not just for the safety of cage drivers). If they only follow these rules, they should be fine.Aranda_Bay wrote: »13. When a motorcycle is in motion, dont think of it as motorcycle; think of it as
a person.
It is quite interesting how most BIG BIKE riders i know and drive along with on the road are very good followers of traffic rules. I, as a cage driver, give them my respect.
Now if the scooter riders just follow BIG BROTHER's example, then all of us would have lived in peace.0 -
1) Cars have a higher margin for safety (or call it idioticity or stupidity) than motorbikes. A 60 kph collision on a car is more survivable than a 60 kph collision on a bike.
The motorcycle is no-doubt inferior against a car in the event of a collision, while on the other hand, motorcycles has lesser probability of colliding into another vehicle given its size, TMO statistics can attest to that...0 -
Enough with all these justifications of why motorbike riders in this country should be cut some slack. In other developed countries, motorbike riders are treated like and given the "space" of a full sized automobile. They are given respect because they in turn GIVE respect. They do not use their size to dart in between cars. They do not bunch up at the front of an intersection while waiting for a red light. They do not go down one-way streets or make illegal turns simply because they think "they don't take up that much space anyway". In short, they follow the traffic rules that govern all motorists.
Just tonight, I was leaving the Glorietta parking lot and there was a long line of cars waiting to pay and exit. Lo and behold, some as-hole on a motorbike drives all the way to the front of the line and cuts right in front of me. Oh HELL NO. I got out of my car and told him to GET IN LINE LIKE EVERYONE ELSE!!!
Thats just a simple example of the mentality that most motorbike riders have. If you guys think you can "get around" everything related to proper road courtesy and driver etiquette simply because of your size, why the hell should you be given any respect on the road? You're just gonna be lumped up with all the other driving nuisances like taxis, buses, jeepneys and tricycles.0 -
Headlights for motorcycles should be on either day or night so as to alert other motorists of their presence. When lanesplitting in near-gridlock traffic (of course not a free flowing traffic faster than 50kph, in such speeds, lane-splitting is a no-no) it is ideal to be sure that the faces of the drivers of the cars and other vehicles around should be seen by the rider to be sure that he is seen by the other motorist.Riders should understand that the universal norm in traffic is to alert anybody in the environment of your intention.
Being a motorcycle does not exempt them from this safety rule. Stop light if you intend to stop, Turn light if you intend to turn.Motorcyclist are visibly fine if they just stick to their lanes. Cage drivers are penalized for those maneuvers, they call it "swerving". If they stick to their line, they remove the "unpredictability" reducing danger of being run over.
But on a near gridlock traffic will you be able to imagine how long the queue can get if the motorcycles stay on the lane and occupy roadspace enough to accommodate a car in a near-gridlock to a tight grid lock traffic rather than lane-splitting their way?Riders swerve to take advantage of their narrow dimensions. They actually believe the yellow line in the middle of the road is the motorcycle lane.
In some respects specifically in low-speed near-gridlock traffic, lane-splitting is much safer for motorcycles since motorcycles may not be able to stop on a dime unlike cars, in such cases, the gap infront of the motorcycle when lane-splitting provides motorcycles a safety margin rather than following cars in the same lane yielding a higher probability of rear-ending the car in front when the car in front stops in an abrupt manner.Which is faster the car or the motorcycle that cut in it's driving lane?
In an open highway cars are commonly faster than bikes of course it depends on the motorcycles displacement, as a rule of thumb a 110cc underbone is a no match against a Nissan Sentra LEC 1.3 in a straightaway...
Yes, they are not exempted from following the rules. And lately government has been more restrictive towards motorcycles, numerous times I"ve seen red light beaters get apprehended and I laud the government for that, we've been undergoing checkpoints from time to time.Being a motorcycle does not give it permission to beat the red light or not follow intersection rules.
probably a properly licensed rider knows it, unfortunately there are a lot of improperly licensed riders due to the corrupt licensing system so again, just like in cars, the entirety of it does not deserve to be blamed if they are doing their own part regardless of the licensing system.YIELD means the perpendicular has the right of way.
Unmarked intersections are first to STOP, first to GO. It doesn't mean, first to STOP, motorcycles GO.Which is exactly the reason why they should be in the middle of the driving lane, so that they are clearly visible to other drivers.
Drivers should know the parameters of their vehicle, motorcycles included. If their stopping distance is long, then break earlier. Being a motorcycle does not exempt them from following proper breaking procedures.
And they shouldn't. If they have the right of way, they should stick to it or follow the proper lane change procedures, signal lights and all.
That's why in parlance of motorcycle safety, motorcycles are advised to provide 2 seconds distance away from the vehicle in front of them, sad thing though not all motorcycle riders know it and the entire riding public is being looked down upon because of those dimwits, product of corrupt licensing system in the country, having that said, I don't think it's fair for all the riders to take the blame if it's done by some (if you'll say they ain't few but sure it's not done by all.
That's why riders like me are doing fine, we abide by the traffic rules.Again, it is also the responsibility of the rider to modify his driving to fit the change in riding conditions. Even drivers of 4-wheeled cages as you call them change their driving when their vehicle is carrying heavy loads.
A significant number of motorcycles DONT HAVE MIRRORS. Some have mirrors but are folded.
And the same argument should be followed with motorcycles and even people.
Look both ways before crossing the street is a universal rule.
True, and they should be turned ON on all vehicles AT NIGHT. Some 4-week vehicles have this non compliance too, with jeepneys running at night with lights turned off.
But headlights are head light. Body light, under chassis lights are not headlights.
This goes for all riders and drivers. The old Filipino adage "Ang naglalakad ng matulin, kung matinik ay malalim" is very apt. Riders don't have the added protection of cages and should therefore be very careful in traffic. Traffic safety regulations are there for their safety as well (not just for the safety of cage drivers). If they only follow these rules, they should be fine.
It is because, a liter bike has the dis-advantage when creeping in tight gridlock traffic though I've already ridden along with a ZX-11 in a tight grid lock traffic, another thing, big bikes have scarce parts around the metro so it's quite expensive to have it repaired therefore they ain't that stupid not to take care of their big bikes. And again, that observation of yours is dictated by probability, if it happened that big bikes consist the better of motorcycles registered compared to small bikes, probably, big bikes can be more often seen in accidents than the small bikes. It just so happened that in the registry small bikes dominate the number and as a rule of thumb, the greater the number is, the more probable it can be seen in accidents. And oh mind you, it already happened to me when I was riding my small bike doing 60kph then suddenly a Yamaha YZF-R1(a big bike if in case you do not know what a Yamaha YZF-R1 looks like with 1000cc of displacement with it's rider wearing a puny T-shirt (while I wore a leather jacket) went lane-splitting probably doing 60-90kph in a 60kph pace. Point is, registered big bikes in the country is a tiny minority compared to small bikes so the hayward riders riding in these two-wheeled beautiful monsters are less noticed than small underboners and scooterists...It is quite interesting how most BIG BIKE riders i know and drive along with on the road are very good followers of traffic rules. I, as a cage driver, give them my respect.
Now if the scooter riders just follow BIG BROTHER's example, then all of us would have lived in peace.0 -
Enough with all these justifications of why motorbike riders in this country should be cut some slack. In other developed countries, motorbike riders are treated like and given the "space" of a full sized automobile. They are given respect because they in turn GIVE respect. They do not use their size to dart in between cars. They do not bunch up at the front of an intersection while waiting for a red light. They do not go down one-way streets or make illegal turns simply because they think "they don't take up that much space anyway". In short, they follow the traffic rules that govern all motorists.
Just tonight, I was leaving the Glorietta parking lot and there was a long line of cars waiting to pay and exit. Lo and behold, some as-hole on a motorbike drives all the way to the front of the line and cuts right in front of me. Oh HELL NO. I got out of my car and told him to GET IN LINE LIKE EVERYONE ELSE!!!
Thats just a simple example of the mentality that most motorbike riders have. If you guys think you can "get around" everything related to proper road courtesy and driver etiquette simply because of your size, why the hell should you be given any respect on the road? You're just gonna be lumped up with all the other driving nuisances like taxis, buses, jeepneys and tricycles.
Did all riders have done that thing unto you? That's just 1 (one) motorcycle rider right? This post is another generalization. It's not right to churn out that judgement basing on 1 rider alone. I mean Hello! Go to the LTO and count the number of bikes registered, it's impossible that there's no rider courteous enough to share the road with you. We people are better remembering those who pissed us off and we usually tend to forget the nice ones we meet on the road.HansMon wrote:In other developed countries, motorbike riders are treated like and given the "space" of a full sized automobile. They are given respect because they in turn GIVE respect. They do not use their size to dart in between cars. They do not bunch up at the front of an intersection while waiting for a red light. They do not go down one-way streets or make illegal turns simply because they think "they don't take up that much space anyway". In short, they follow the traffic rules that govern all motorists
Based on your opinion it appears that all the rant on motorcycle riders is caused by lane-splitting, or in layman's term 'singit' but it's a motorcycle and it has that ability so if your car can't do that, don't pour your heart's angst on motorcyclists, try riding a bike so you'll understand. For those hayward riders, it's not only you who's got angst on them, we motorcyclists are also pissed at those riders who think they are above the law so again, for the Nth time, Please don't generalize.0 -
But it is actually this lane splitting ability that, should i say corrupts the motorcycle rider.
If they traffic lane goes longer because motorcycles queued up, then that's fine. Better err on the side of the rules rather than the "bikes inert capability to split lanes", and snake around traffic with no predictability posing real danger in traffic.
It is the lane splitting ability that makes the rider tread the middle lanes and pile up in front of the stopped traffic on intersections. And at most times OCCUPYING THE PEDESTRIAN LANES.
Are the cage drivers the one putting the danger in traffic or these kinds of motor riders.
Are the people here generalizing? I don't think so.
And yes I know an R1. Ridden one myself. I currently own a GSX-R600.0 -
heightdeprived wrote: »Did all riders have done that thing unto you? That's just 1 (one) motorcycle rider right? This post is another generalization. It's not right to churn out that judgement basing on 1 rider alone. I mean Hello! Go to the LTO and count the number of bikes registered, it's impossible that there's no rider courteous enough to share the road with you. We people are better remembering those who pissed us off and we usually tend to forget the nice ones we meet on the road.
Based on your opinion it appears that all the rant on motorcycle riders is caused by lane-splitting, or in layman's term 'singit' but it's a motorcycle and it has that ability so if your car can't do that, don't pour your heart's angst on motorcyclists, try riding a bike so you'll understand. For those hayward riders, it's not only you who's got angst on them, we motorcyclists are also pissed at those riders who think they are above the law so again, for the Nth time, Please don't generalize.
Its very hard not to generalize when I see this happening EVERYDAY on my commute to work. And buster, I may have had only one motorbike cut ME off yesterday, but why don't YOU try to count how many motorbike riders do that to all othe motorists on a DAILY BASIS?
You are so off the mark to even suggest that I am pouring my angst out on motorbikes simply because as a car driver, I do not have the ability to lane-split. Do that at your own risk and to your hearts content but remember, wala kayo sa lugar when you do that. So when one of you collides with a car who is changing lanes...well...as the posts here illustrate...kayo din ang talo.
I seriously hope this is not your justification for what the as-hole that tried to cut me off at the carpark did. Your argument is the very malaise of MOST motorcycle drivers: This mentality that since you are smaller and thus "can": Can bunch up at the front of an intersection, can go down one way streets, can make illegal turn and run red lights, can cut queues of cars, etc. simply because "kaya niyo"...you think that its ok.
Yes, we are ALL guilty of driving like buffoons. But in the same manner that I will not mess around with a 10-wheeler, one would think that given your size and vulnerability, the onus would be on you to be more obedient of traffic rules and in general, drive more carefully. In this case, the reverse is true, most of you blatantly disregard the rules and drive like you're impervious to injury.
I may have to deal with a dented door or a busted fender. You're lucky if you DON'T break a limb or two.0 -
Umiinit na pala balitaktakan dito... hehehe... Mapa motor man yan o 4 wheels it does'nt matter in terms of road courteousy nasa driver yan. When i ride my motorcycle i always stay in one lane yun lang since maliit ang daming kotse nanggigitgit. Pero totoo din na marami naka motor ngayon ang mahilig sumiksik pero do'nt generalize.
Pasalamat nga ang mga 4 wheels ngayon kasi hindi na gaano ang hulihan. Paborito na kasi ng mga pulis kotongan mga motor.
Sino ba sa inyo pumupunta sa SM North Edsa? Badtrip kaya kasi wala na free parking for motorcycles. Sa pay parking na, payo lang mga tol use the lane parking. Since nag babayad na tayo wag nyo na isiksik yung motor nyo sa gilid.0 -
yes, it corrupts the motorcycle rider whether big or small.But it is actually this lane splitting ability that, should i say corrupts the motorcycle rider.
What? Can you imagine what you're saying? Which is traffic queue is longer? 4 lancers and a bike in the same lane? or 4 lancers bumper to bumper with the bike on the right hand side of the lancer in the front? If it happened that the bike is queued up in the lane where cars queue up it consumes five car speces in the lane while the bike right beside the lancer up front will only occupy the lane mark eating making the queue only four cars long. Imagine the number of bikes mingled in queues if they don't lane split. The queue might be doubled or tripled, think again...If they traffic lane goes longer because motorcycles queued up, then that's fine.
If snaking around in traffic is done in a reckless manner I would also not approve that, but in the previous posts it appears as if everybody who does lane splitting even those who does it properly take the blame.palin wrote:Better err on the side of the rules rather than the "bikes inert capability to split lanes", and snake around traffic with no predictability posing real danger in traffic.
So whenever me and my peers ride we try to block-off other riders from the pedestrian lane, and I also see other riders do the same thing but I admit there are riders who do occupy them same with cars and trucks and other types of vehicle, so there's no point in putting all the blame on motorcyclists.It is the lane splitting ability that makes the rider tread the middle lanes and pile up in front of the stopped traffic on intersections. And at most times OCCUPYING THE PEDESTRIAN LANES.
actually if they both do it, they both...Are the cage drivers the one putting the danger in traffic or these kinds of motor riders.
yes, it's as if everybody does it, but I beg to dis-agree, I would agree that there are a lot (if you will disagree if I use the term 'some') who break the rules along with those in-uniform riders but still not everybody does that, there are still riders sober enough to follow what is right.Are the people here generalizing? I don't think so.And yes I know an R1. Ridden one myself. I currently own a GSX-R600.
if this is the case you'd understand why snaking in a gridlock traffic is much more difficult in a sport bike compared to underbone/scooter reason why most of these in sport bikes get lazy enough to filter traffic but still it's possible.It is quite interesting how most BIG BIKE riders i know and drive along with on the road are very good followers of traffic rules. I, as a cage driver, give them my respect.
Now if the scooter riders just follow BIG BROTHER's example, then all of us would have lived in peace.0 -
It's not so hard after all you've done it. You can count it but you're really that great of a genious if you thought that everybody does it.Its very hard not to generalize when I see this happening EVERYDAY on my commute to work. And buster, I may have had only one motorbike cut ME off yesterday, but why don't YOU try to count how many motorbike riders do that to all othe motorists on a DAILY BASIS?
I agree, wala sa lugar if lane-splitting was done in an improper manner either way, when accident strikes kami nga ang talo so prudent and more often the avid motorcyclist does the right thing rather than recklessly lane-splitting. In that post of yours above it implies your strong disapproval of lane-splitting in general.You are so off the mark to even suggest that I am pouring my angst out on motorbikes simply because as a car driver, I do not have the ability to lane-split. Do that at your own risk and to your hearts content but remember, wala kayo sa lugar when you do that. So when one of you collides with a car who is changing lanes...well...as the posts here illustrate...kayo din ang talo.
Definitely it's not my justification for that a-hole who cut you off, and I'd strongly disapprove the same, I even had a motorcyclist screwed up causing his apprehension as he tried to get-away from blasting through a red light cutting an FX. If he really did something wrong he should suffer the consequences. What I'm trying to say is not to blame everybody who's got a crotch rocket underneath them. In a community there will always be misfits, but then again, it's not right to refer to the entire riding public as a whole. Another thing, not all riders think that they are small enough to break the rule, a rule is a rule unfortunately it happened that LTO has released licenses to the undeserving monkeys. So again other riders have nothing to do about it if the monkeys connived a hayward licensing system in the LTO for them to get their restriction 1 licenses.I seriously hope this is not your justification for what the as-hole that tried to cut me off at the carpark did. Your argument is the very malaise of MOST motorcycle drivers: This mentality that since you are smaller and thus "can": Can bunch up at the front of an intersection, can go down one way streets, can make illegal turn and run red lights, can cut queues of cars, etc. simply because "kaya niyo"...you think that its ok.
So even the term 'most' does not equate to 'all' so again, it's not right to refer to the entirety of it, besides, I just don't know if you have a figure to back up your claims referring to the 'most' of the riders...Yes, we are ALL guilty of driving like buffoons. But in the same manner that I will not mess around with a 10-wheeler, one would think that given your size and vulnerability, the onus would be on you to be more obedient of traffic rules and in general, drive more carefully. In this case, the reverse is true, most of you blatantly disregard the rules and drive like you're impervious to injury.
It's not a miracle for a responsible motorcycle rider to get-up and walk away from the bike unscathed, so I don't consider myself lucky enough unscathed from a crash, proper safety gear and proper actions results to this. With proper skills, a collission can even be prevented so as not to have a wrecked bike whereas in emergency situations you may end up with a dented door or a busted fender due to inability of maneuvering the car in collision prevention resulted by it's width...I may have to deal with a dented door or a busted fender. You're lucky if you DON'T break a limb or two.0 -
This is exactly the "BECAUSE WE CAN" attitude that is quite unacceptable in terms of motorcycles and traffic.heightdeprived wrote: »if this is the case you'd understand why snaking in a gridlock traffic is much more difficult in a sport bike compared to underbone/scooter reason why most of these in sport bikes get lazy enough to filter traffic but still it's possible.
It is also this attitude that kills riders while cage drivers gets the full 100% blame for the accident.
One car magazine writer very nicely coined the term "TYRANNY OF WEAKNESS". Not just for motorcycles but also for 4 wheelers who used their "lowly" status to justify their irresponsible driving habits.
Let me sight examples (I'll leave it to you if you want to call it generalization, or you may want to vote on it if you have experienced or was witness to these)
1) 4 wheel vehicle has right of way, tight traffic, motorcycle forces the issue and scrapes and leaves a deep gash on the door panels. Rider get off free, driver pays for the door damage.
2) Jeepney running at night without headlights, on the wrong lane and bumps a car. Jeepney driver gets off because he can't pay, car driver pays for the damage.
3) Car parked perpendicular to the road. Backing up to drive off. Reverse lights on, Hazard lights on. Already in the middle of the road about to turn towards driving lane when modified XRM suddenly appears from no where and tries to beat the turning car on the lane. Car bumps the XRM.
4) Car in the middle of traffic. Motorbike running along the middle lane. Motorbike encounters incoming traffic. Motorbike snakes towards the earlier car. Driver compensates and GAVE ROOM.
Now tell me if these are GENERALIZATIONS or this is just a my imagination or i'm just so unlucky that I am the only one who experienced this at least once a day!!!
Damn it, i have to live in fear of running over motorcycles because they can snake around traffic and pose danger and I will get blamed for it.0 -
unacceptable if done improperly.This is exactly the "BECAUSE WE CAN" attitude that is quite unacceptable in terms of motorcycles and traffic.
This is true, one good example is the guy that became a ground human by a truck loaded with scrap metal, I don't mean to condone actions such as these but what I'm saying is that the capability of a motorcycle to lanesplit if done properly is not as unacceptable as you're thinkin' otherwise, the best reason you find it unacceptable is that you're insensitive enough to motorcycles even if the motorcyclist has done it the most proper and safest way, the keyword for what I'm trying to point out is "proper" . Or how it is executed. If it's done improperly, then we're on the same side, gets?It is also this attitude that kills riders while cage drivers gets the full 100% blame for the accident.
All of these things are not proper and I agree with your stand in your post. These things are already more than lane-splitting while earlier lane-splitting has been the major cause of angst of other motorist towards motorcyclist and what I'm trying to say is that, lane-splitting done properly must be appreciated but those done improperly shall not be condoned and in this post of yours, clearly, can't be condoned even by me.One car magazine writer very nicely coined the term "TYRANNY OF WEAKNESS". Not just for motorcycles but also for 4 wheelers who used their "lowly" status to justify their irresponsible driving habits.
Let me sight examples (I'll leave it to you if you want to call it generalization, or you may want to vote on it if you have experienced or was witness to these)
1) 4 wheel vehicle has right of way, tight traffic, motorcycle forces the issue and scrapes and leaves a deep gash on the door panels. Rider get off free, driver pays for the door damage.
2) Jeepney running at night without headlights, on the wrong lane and bumps a car. Jeepney driver gets off because he can't pay, car driver pays for the damage.
3) Car parked perpendicular to the road. Backing up to drive off. Reverse lights on, Hazard lights on. Already in the middle of the road about to turn towards driving lane when modified XRM suddenly appears from no where and tries to beat the turning car on the lane. Car bumps the XRM.
Now tell me if these are GENERALIZATIONS or this is just a my.
Cite an example when a bike rider stopped by on some car stalled by the road side or anything similar to that, probably you'll remember none and this is what we're good at. I'd say it's ain't your imagination, it's just that you're so unlucky that you're (of course not only you) among those people who were cut by these riding monkeys and not only those who wear a helmet but also those who are behind the steering wheels operating some other form of transport.imagination or i'm just so unlucky that I am the only one who experienced this at least once a day!!!
You should!Damn it, i have to live in fear of running over motorcycles because they can snake around traffic and pose danger and I will get blamed for it.
I mean who doesn't? Nobody doesn't fear damaging somebody else's property nor killing somebody, is there? (Unless it's willfully done). I found the motorcycle as a safe form of transport as others for the reason that I know that nobody will want to hit me on the road, but that thinking is definitely not an excuse for one to do death defying, accident-causing moves on the road. If they did, probably, hehe, again, it's either a monkey wearing a helmet (if he wears one), or atop a motorcycle (I've seen a monkey like this in an MMDA guise dropping his bike from riding atop the boardwalk on to the blacktop.) or behind the wheel...
Motorcyclists don't go to the street to ride and slam their bikes on to another vehicle just to get some cash or whatever.
I'd admit, there are bad riders, but don't generalize that each and every rider is as bad as you're thinkin'.
In a coin there are always two sides, try seeing the other side.
In days like these when LTO is as if selling licenses, we should rather remember those people who have been nice to us when we shared the road one time or another, it's tiring pouring our hearts angst out to those undeserving mofos...
Whether be it a rider or a cage driver.
There will always be misfits, they do not only belong on the motorcycle riding public alone so don't blame the motorcycle riding as a whole (Proof of which is the jeep example it's also possible somebody in the role of a jeep is a car who have installed an oversized alternator + modified electrical systems busting his headbulbs and other electrical accessories, I know of one.
).
The root of all this problem? ========> Jaraaaaaaaaaan!!!! LTO
In parlance of safe motorcycle riding, it would rather be safe (as long as permitted) for motorcycles to courteously counterflow without blocking the oncoming traffic's way rather than to sneak on the right most lane (with a higher risk of hitting pedestrians) or riding above the boardwalk which is utterly violating the rights of the pedestrians using the boardwalk.4) Car in the middle of traffic. Motorbike running along the middle lane. Motorbike encounters incoming traffic. Motorbike snakes towards the earlier car. Driver compensates and GAVE ROOM.
What's wrong with this? He snakes towards the earlier car because he can. If the rider is stupid enough, he won't go in front of the car to give way for the oncoming traffic. And about giving room? I doubt if it's necessary for a motorcycle can perfectly fit between the gap of a tail and nose in a gridlock traffic. As far as I know the acceptable tail-to-nose distance between two vehicles is to the point that the driver on the 2nd vehicle can still see the axle of the vehicle in front of him/her. If it happened that the car gives way he may be the one who's doing something improper for he is tail gating. Though in fairness he was prudent enough to make-up for his mistake of tail-gating by giving way to a motorcycle-who-is-also-giving-way-for-the-oncoming-traffic.Motorbike snakes towards the earlier car. Driver compensates and GAVE ROOM.
But if it happened that it's a car who's doing the same thing as the motorcycle in this scenario it's a completely different story, there's no way in hell a car can counterflow(courteously) without blocking oncoming traffic while motorcycles most of the time though not all can. 0 -
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Due to the crisis and prices of fuel and awareness of practicality, motorcycles will be a part of the road using community and is growing fast. Learn to co-exist on the streets and roads. Kindly give a little consideration to motorcycle'rs coz they are smaller. Think of them as your makulit smaller brothers.0
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Its very hard not to generalize when I see this happening EVERYDAY on my commute to work. And buster, I may have had only one motorbike cut ME off yesterday, but why don't YOU try to count how many motorbike riders do that to all othe motorists on a DAILY BASIS?
You are so off the mark to even suggest that I am pouring my angst out on motorbikes simply because as a car driver, I do not have the ability to lane-split. Do that at your own risk and to your hearts content but remember, wala kayo sa lugar when you do that. So when one of you collides with a car who is changing lanes...well...as the posts here illustrate...kayo din ang talo.
I seriously hope this is not your justification for what the as-hole that tried to cut me off at the carpark did. Your argument is the very malaise of MOST motorcycle drivers: This mentality that since you are smaller and thus "can": Can bunch up at the front of an intersection, can go down one way streets, can make illegal turn and run red lights, can cut queues of cars, etc. simply because "kaya niyo"...you think that its ok.
Yes, we are ALL guilty of driving like buffoons. But in the same manner that I will not mess around with a 10-wheeler, one would think that given your size and vulnerability, the onus would be on you to be more obedient of traffic rules and in general, drive more carefully. In this case, the reverse is true, most of you blatantly disregard the rules and drive like you're impervious to injury.
I may have to deal with a dented door or a busted fender. You're lucky if you DON'T break a limb or two.
As both a motorcycle rider and a cager I hear you on this one. Kahit naman responsible motorcycle riders do not encourage our pasaway comrades. These pasaway mc riders are the reasons why motorcycle riders are generalized and looked at with disdain by both cage drivers and pedestrians. As a responsible rider the only thing we can do is to set a good example and do not go with the flow of irresponsible riders. Its like as a reponsible cage driver, you cannot do anything about your fellow pasaway cage drivers like PUV's who stop anywhere they like to get passengers and who also lane change at a blink of an eye like pasaway motorcycle riders?
By the way, are we on agreement here that taxis, FX, and PUV's are categorized as four wheel cages, correct?0 -
Aranda_Bay wrote: »As both a motorcycle rider and a cager I hear you on this one. Kahit naman responsible motorcycle riders do not encourage our pasaway comrades. These pasaway mc riders are the reasons why motorcycle riders are generalized and looked at with disdain by both cage drivers and pedestrians. As a responsible rider the only thing we can do is to set a good example and do not go with the flow of irresponsible riders. Its like as a reponsible cage driver, you cannot do anything about your fellow pasaway cage drivers like PUV's who stop anywhere they like to get passengers and who also lane change at a blink of an eye like pasaway motorcycle riders?
By the way, are we on agreement here that taxis, FX, and PUV's are categorized as four wheel cages, correct?
I agree on this; i'm not an MC rider but i know how to give respect to other MCs, especially those who drive properly... but there are so much egg head MCs (yes just like our egg head 4-wheelers but thats another very long story) that really can make one go ballistic on MCs (yes, i have already skirmished with several on the road). Those that usually get into accidents are the small ones that are running in and out of the lanes... tapos pag nabangga, grabe magpakaawa (i was hit already twice by them... in both cases i was at a full stop in an intersection waiting for my turn to cross; i almost hit one head-on in Bataan because they cut a blind corner).
Whatever is written and said, it's a fact that MCs will increase by numbers and lack of proper training and enforcement will suffice for more accidents since these have a capability to drive faster in our city streets and MCs have lesser leeway for error when driving; i hope more and more groups will come out to help control and educate.
My .02 0 -
Wala, stalemate tayo on this. Wag daw mag-generalize pero di rin naman matanggap na ang tingin ng karamihan ng motorista sa mga naka-motor ay isang napakalaking perwisyo sa daan. Sige na, lets agree to disagree.
Although it is interesting to note that some motorbike riders in this forum also frown on their IMPROPER brethren. Then again, this is the philippines, since when was driving here ever PROPER?
Red lights are merely suggestions.
Pedestrians are obstacles.
Signal lights are accessories.
Ah yes, if you can drive here, you can drive anywhere.....0 -
I agree on this; i'm not an MC rider but i know how to give respect to other MCs, especially those who drive properly... but there are so much egg head MCs (yes just like our egg head 4-wheelers but thats another very long story) that really can make one go ballistic on MCs (yes, i have already skirmished with several on the road). Those that usually get into accidents are the small ones that are running in and out of the lanes... tapos pag nabangga, grabe magpakaawa (i was hit already twice by them... in both cases i was at a full stop in an intersection waiting for my turn to cross; i almost hit one head-on in Bataan because they cut a blind corner).
Whatever is written and said, it's a fact that MCs will increase by numbers and lack of proper training and enforcement will suffice for more accidents since these have a capability to drive faster in our city streets and MCs have lesser leeway for error when driving; i hope more and more groups will come out to help control and educate.
My .02
I agree on this one.
Marami talagang pasaway either cages or riders, law enforcement is more to blame than the motorists in general.
Dahil mali ang tingin ng karamihan ng motorista, kaya 'di talaga pwedeng tanggapin, 'di kasi naiintindihan ng 'di pa nagmomotor kung paano talaga kumilos ang nagmomotor kaya kelangan talaga ifamiliarize ang riders with how cars move and cagers with how motorcycles move, ganu'n lang kasimple, atsaka 'di sa hindi tinatanggap. Aminado kami na marami talagang gunggong na riders diyan at 'di lang riders, kung 'di drivers na rin, as attested by your post as quoted below.Wala, stalemate tayo on this. Wag daw mag-generalize pero di rin naman matanggap na ang tingin ng karamihan ng motorista sa mga naka-motor ay isang napakalaking perwisyo sa daan. Sige na, lets agree to disagree.Although it is interesting to note that some motorbike riders in this forum also frown on their IMPROPER brethren. Then again, this is the philippines, since when was driving here ever PROPER?
Red lights are merely suggestions.
Pedestrians are obstacles.
Signal lights are accessories.
Ah yes, if you can drive here, you can drive anywhere.....[/QUOTE]
A lot of times already, it's just that motorists are too good at remembering the rotten tomatoes scattered all over the streets and the good ones often go unnoticed...
Ganyan ka siguro magmaneho kaya ganyan ka pessimistic ang tingin mo sa Philippine motoring scene.0 -
People in the Philippines just don't care. And if you do care and do something about it, you are attacked by those who are comfortable in their corrupt state, casting you as ARROGANT, ANTIPOOR, ANTIRICH.
People who want to teach riders and drivers, who don't want to learn, a lesson in driving are casted as people who don't understand them.
Phasing out the inefficient vehicles such as Jeepneys, are ANTIPOOR.
Not only are we agreeing to disagree....
Aren't we also agreeing to continue this poor state of road discipline and continue the useless blaming for this countries sad plight?
Dudes, we look up to countries with very good driving discipline. But these are also the countries where people agree to give up some personal freedom in the interest of road safety and efficient vehicle travel.
Do I generalize? Yes I am generalizing.
The Philippines has become a country of exceptions rather than rule.0 -
heightdeprived wrote: »I agree on this one.
Marami talagang pasaway either cages or riders, law enforcement is more to blame than the motorists in general.
Dahil mali ang tingin ng karamihan ng motorista, kaya 'di talaga pwedeng tanggapin, 'di kasi naiintindihan ng 'di pa nagmomotor kung paano talaga kumilos ang nagmomotor kaya kelangan talaga ifamiliarize ang riders with how cars move and cagers with how motorcycles move, ganu'n lang kasimple, atsaka 'di sa hindi tinatanggap. Aminado kami na marami talagang gunggong na riders diyan at 'di lang riders, kung 'di drivers na rin, as attested by your post as quoted below.
Red lights are merely suggestions.
Pedestrians are obstacles.
Signal lights are accessories.
Ah yes, if you can drive here, you can drive anywhere.....
A lot of times already, it's just that motorists are too good at remembering the rotten tomatoes scattered all over the streets and the good ones often go unnoticed...
Ganyan ka siguro magmaneho kaya ganyan ka pessimistic ang tingin mo sa Philippine motoring scene.[/QUOTE]
Don't presume to know how I drive sir.
Believe me, after having lived abroad and experienced general driving discipline as opposed to general driving anarchy here, your beliefs and suggestions of cage and motorbike riders driving habits are optimistic at best.
Should you insist on labelling me as generalizing and pessimistic, I shall then beseech you to open your eyes because you sir, are IN DENIAL.0
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