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What ifs

gekokujogekokujo Original Fire PExer
from the thread Reming disaster a message from God-Archbishop Cruz:
Jonga wrote: »
what if God killed you and your loved one? and told you because He just wanted it and doesn't have to tell you why since you wouldn't understand...would you accept this?

if yes then one must agree that we are just tools of God that He can use in any way...
like a vibrator for His enjoyment...offensive?
ok....like a pen to write His will

in anyway, its just the same...we are tools...the question is would you? want to be...just...tool?
you'll notice that in the apologists' 'what ifs' you'll never see 'what if all these incongruities/inconsistencies meant that the bible was just written by a bulls-ter?'

shouldn't that be the first 'what if' for anybody? have apologists even started thinking before they started excusing?
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Comments

  • stillwaterstillwater create in me... PExer
    An atheist believes he/she is not a creator of life.

    ...what if The Maker/Creator appeared to you and showed you how HE creates life and introduced himself as the good and just GOD, the GOD that is written in the Bible, and tells you HE is the only supreme authority to take life in an instant, that anyone who does not believe and do what is written in the Bible will suffer eternal fire, would you still write that??? ^^^

    :ghost:

    I'm Not Perfect
  • Frank_MackeyFrank_Mackey Banned by Admin PExer
    ^ More of those worthless what-ifs...
  • rickymrickym Member PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    stillwater wrote: »
    An atheist believes he/she is not a creator of life.

    ...what if The Maker/Creator appeared to you and showed you how HE creates life and introduced himself as the good and just GOD, the GOD that is written in the Bible, and tells you HE is the only supreme authority to take life in an instant, that anyone who does not believe and do what is written in the Bible will suffer eternal fire, would you still write that??? ^^^

    :ghost:

    I'm Not Perfect

    are you saying that god is not necessarily benevolent?
  • gekokujogekokujo Original Fire PExer
    stillwater wrote: »
    An atheist believes he/she is not a creator of life.

    ...what if The Maker/Creator appeared to you and showed you how HE creates life and introduced himself as the good and just GOD, the GOD that is written in the Bible, and tells you HE is the only supreme authority to take life in an instant, that anyone who does not believe and do what is written in the Bible will suffer eternal fire, would you still write that??? ^^^

    :ghost:

    I'm Not Perfect
    again, who said you were?

    answer: I'll say f-k you, give him the finger, attack the ******* physically. I don't care if I die. why should doing good be tied to someone's ego? the human spirit is better than giving in to someone just because he's powerful. f-k, f-k, f-k that monster.

    pero hindi kumpleto yung sinulat mo. ganito dapat iyan:

    what if The Maker/Creator appeared to you and showed you how HE creates life and introduced himself as the good and just GOD, the GOD that is written in the Bible, and tells you HE is the only supreme authority to take life in an instant, that anyone who does not believe and do what is written in the Bible will suffer eternal fire...you, on the other hand, are his chosen, his blessed, his servant, his prophet. millions of followers will remember you for centuries as a holy man. you will establish a religion that will dominate the world and allow you to extort enormous wealth all in the name of The Maker/Creator. best part of all, anyone who doubts you will be threatened with persecution and destruction. you, otoh, will be special, you will be great...would you still write that???

    of course, you can still write that without a bulls-t Maker/Creator actually appearing, right? - come to think of it, someone has already written that...
  • JongaJonga Banned by Admin PExer
    so this apologist thingy about my post belongs here eh, ok, just to clarify things k.

    its really easy to remove the what ifs if you hate the words "what if" you know ;) hehehe

    God can kill you and your loved one, He would want it anytime and doesn't have to tell you why since you wouldn't understand...this is true because He is God, He can do whatever He wills (try to look at a lot of human injustices in the OT) and its true that humans will never know why, one 'possible' example is Job yes?

    so likewise, its so obvious that
    we are just tools of God that He can use in any way...
    (i'll remove the vibrator thing because i think there are people who gets offended quickly with such words :lol:)

    like a pen to write His will

    in anyway, its just the same...we are tools...the question is would you? want to be...just...tool? anyways you dont have the choice so i guess the question is if you want to be a christian and serve God or just become an atheist and serve no God....

    issit clean now?
    im no apologist.... but hey you can make me one if you like...i kinda like being deceptive and misdirecting hehehe, gets the ninja outta me :burglar:
  • IscharamoochieIscharamoochie Moderator PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    ... IF god exists! :crazy:
  • micketymocmicketymoc Oversized Member PExer
    Jonga wrote:
    im no apologist.... but hey you can make me one if you like...i kinda like being deceptive and misdirecting hehehe, gets the ninja outta me

    You're not a very good ninja. Your theism was quite obvious from the beginning. Actually, it didn't remind me of a ninja as much as it reminded me of an episode in the New Testament where the rooster crows three times...
  • Lucca YamazakiLucca Yamazaki die boy abunda die! PExer
    stillwater wrote: »
    An atheist believes he/she is not a creator of life.

    ...what if The Maker/Creator appeared to you and showed you how HE creates life and introduced himself as the good and just GOD, the GOD that is written in the Bible, and tells you HE is the only supreme authority to take life in an instant, that anyone who does not believe and do what is written in the Bible will suffer eternal fire, would you still write that??? ^^^

    :ghost:

    I'm Not Perfect

    I'll go up to the bloke and scream "FORTY-TWO!!!!!"

    Don't Panic!
  • JongaJonga Banned by Admin PExer
    micketymoc wrote: »
    You're not a very good ninja. Your theism was quite obvious from the beginning. Actually, it didn't remind me of a ninja as much as it reminded me of an episode in the New Testament where the rooster crows three times...

    dang im so stupid i didnt get this one...whats it have to do with the poor rooster in the NT?

    i guess im a dead ninja by now huh? :lol:
  • IscharamoochieIscharamoochie Moderator PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    ...too little too late.
  • payterpayter Banned by Admin PExer
    a what-if-God question
    concedes for the sake of argument
    that God exists.
    but if you do that
    you have to concede to a God that
    goes beyond your comprehension
    you cant just create your
    own arbitrary God
    from your simpleton atheist mind hehe
    that God will be easy to destroy
    using your primitive wordplay and logic games
  • loc0loc0 loc0.deviantart.com PExer
    All gods are easy to destroy.
  • AnonymouzAnonymouz Banned by Admin PExer
    gekokujo wrote: »
    the human spirit is better than giving in to someone just because he's powerful. f-k, f-k, f-k that monster.

    I'd like to hear you say that on the torture table. The human spirit will do almost anything to survive:

    Convert at the point of the sword.
    Suicide bomb than burn in hell.
    Steal for a criminal who holds your family hostage.
    Call 'uncle' someone who is about to break your arm.
    You name it.

    Thats why theres so many fundies and religious people despite the obvious stupidities in religious beliefs. Its all about fear and giving in to that imagined supreme power up there. :lol:
  • JongaJonga Banned by Admin PExer
    All gods are easy to destroy.

    id rather go with...

    all gods are easy to kill
  • loc0loc0 loc0.deviantart.com PExer
    Killing implies gods actually lived :p Destroy is still more appropriate.
  • OneirosOneiros Slacker PExer
    If God is beyond comprehension then why do we know so much about "him" or about what he wants from us?
  • JongaJonga Banned by Admin PExer
    ^i always say we are like painters, man cant exactly draw/paint the real picture of what man experienced....the real question that keeps bothering me is where did that experience comes from, and why a lot of people have that form of experience
  • stillwaterstillwater create in me... PExer
    gekokujo wrote: »
    again, who said you were?

    answer: I'll say f-k you, give him the finger, attack the ******* physically. I don't care if I die. why should doing good be tied to someone's ego? the human spirit is better than giving in to someone just because he's powerful. f-k, f-k, f-k that monster.

    pero hindi kumpleto yung sinulat mo. ganito dapat iyan:

    you, on the other hand, are his chosen, his blessed, his servant, his prophet. millions of followers will remember you for centuries as a holy man. you will establish a religion that will dominate the world and allow you to extort enormous wealth all in the name of The Maker/Creator. best part of all, anyone who doubts you will be threatened with persecution and destruction. you, otoh, will be special, you will be great...would you still write that???

    of course, you can still write that without a bulls-t Maker/Creator actually appearing, right? - come to think of it, someone has already written that...

    The problem with the people today is making a haste judgment about something, without taking much into consideration the reality behind the issue, in the basis of his own level of understanding of the same. We must remember that no human being except Christ who walked this earth stain free, “for not your way, an earthly way, is the perfect way.” It is our human imperfection that led us do such great offense, “for even Peter had sinned.” Opposite to extortion of enormous wealth from others in HIS name is the teaching of the Bible and of the Church, if there is indeed such an act present among religious sects. It is this human imperfection and weakness, the affinity to commit sin that even GOD’s chosen servants, in an attempt to do only good for the good of the mankind, do such an act and should not be blamed on GOD. GOD is there to guide and teach us things to do and not to do.

    Human imperfection should not be blamed on GOD, for it is our persistence of will to do evil then we submit ourselves towards imperfection, perfection to do evil in praise of satan, and for our persistence to do good and in complete submission to follow Christ’s life thereby we become perfect towards goodness. For is there any greater goodness than what Christ did in the Bible that could add up to the level of human perfection? No. Because Christ’s way is the greatest and is the only perfect way for us to have an everlasting life, and bring back that pure happiness experienced in pure love that is in GOD. Kapatid, dalawa lang po, GOOD and EVIL, which one would you want to become perfect in you?

    Is your way the perfect way? Maybe so from your own personal perspective. So what is your determinant of perfection of doing good, or evil as an atheist, as a nonbeliever? Would you say, GOD’s goodness as described in the Bible is not the perfect way, so what for you is the perfect way? Or is it your way of mocking GOD, which atheists enjoyed of doing that is the perfect way? Then what is it that distinguishes your perfection. What is your level of measurement of perfection? Bring me any person who is all good, or even all knowing if that measures your perfection, who had been proven to know everything, about mysteries of the world and out of the world, the universe, the gravity, prove to me then I’ll believe you. If Einstein is your measurement of perfection, of knowledge and goodness, ho ho ho, solve the gravity issue first, bring forth any evidence, as you atheist relies on evidence, give us proof from Einstein the presence of something outside the milky way, then you can say the measure of your perfection is perfect. For even in goodness you cannot determine the level of your perfection without something or someone as referenced to, in our case which is Christ, for how can you feel the sweetness of chocolates and the saltiness of the sea without tasting them, or seeing the beauty of the nature without looking at it? Tell me then, what is your measurement of perfection that you have to blame and mock GOD for human sinfulness and make yourself fault-free and blame-free? 1

    You cannot say GOD had chosen Peter to be HIS servant so whatever fault Peter did is to be blamed on GOD. It is Peter's imperfection and human weakness that led him do such an act, same also on the servants of the Church, and mind you, never in GOD's power and might did HE touch Peter's own free-will, or other person's free-will to do such grievance. See how wonderful GOD is? How HE let us do what we feel free do in accordance to our own will.

    Another problem that the people had today is to go out of the circle, out of religion, pointing fingers at every fault committed by the church instead of staying inside the circle, correcting, contributing at their very best to the reformation of the church and its people. It would be nobody's fault I suppose, not even GOD shall I blame for even that act I consider as part of human weakness and an exercise of an individual will-power, to not stand firm in the face of sin and enforce GOD's words but rather chose to step back and create another organization, imitation or otherwise. For I tell you, there is no other Church than Christ’s church, and there is only one Church acknowledged by Christ through Peter and Paul.

    For only when you focus yourself to GOD and HIS teachings, every day of your life, reading the Bible endlessly, willfully doing what HE wills us to do, through time you feel your faith is becoming strong, only then this human weakness is beaten, so strong that even your put of faulty words will be erased.

    If you want to blame GOD, consider yourself a god first then do all those grievances, there you have the right to blame a god, because that god is you who is the doer of such act. Do not blame GOD for his goodness when we know the doer is not GOD and only a human being with certain limitations and weaknesses.

    In the name of GOD, despite the persecutions, I will stay with HIM. HIS teachings are true and good, and I will have eternal life in HIS kingdom. After all, he is OUR CREATOR.

    Happy Celebrating Christmas with us! :-) :-) :-)

    :ghost:

    I'm Not Perfect
  • JongaJonga Banned by Admin PExer
    GOD is there to guide and teach us things to do and not to do.

    yep, so they say, God will guide us to do what He wants...whether good or bad (in the human perspective that is)
    Human imperfection should not be blamed on GOD, for it is our persistence of will to do evil then we submit ourselves towards imperfection, perfection to do evil in praise of satan, and for our persistence to do good and in complete submission to follow Christ’s life thereby we become perfect towards goodness. For is there any greater goodness than what Christ did in the Bible that could add up to the level of human perfection? No. Because Christ’s way is the greatest and is the only perfect way for us to have an everlasting life, and bring back that pure happiness experienced in pure love that is in GOD. Kapatid, dalawa lang po, GOOD and EVIL, which one would you want to become perfect in you?

    imo, its not really good or evil...its all about life or death...in the first few chapters of genesis, man was prohibited to eat of GOOD and evil...but was freely allowed to take the fruit of life....so there you go, life, its whether christians have life in them or they are dead with no God
    Is your way the perfect way? Maybe so from your own personal perspective. So what is your determinant of perfection of doing good, or evil as an atheist, as a nonbeliever? Would you say, GOD’s goodness as described in the Bible is not the perfect way, so what for you is the perfect way? Or is it your way of mocking GOD, which atheists enjoyed of doing that is the perfect way? Then what is it that distinguishes your perfection. What is your level of measurement of perfection? Bring me any person who is all good, or even all knowing if that measures your perfection, who had been proven to know everything, about mysteries of the world and out of the world, the universe, the gravity, prove to me then I’ll believe you. If Einstein is your measurement of perfection, of knowledge and goodness, ho ho ho, solve the gravity issue first, bring forth any evidence, as you atheist relies on evidence, give us proof from Einstein the presence of something outside the milky way, then you can say the measure of your perfection is perfect. For even in goodness you cannot determine the level of your perfection without something or someone as referenced to, in our case which is Christ. Tell me then, what is your measurement of perfection that you have to blame and mock GOD and make yourself fault-free and blame-free?

    i think atheists fight for humans being imperfect, christians are considered humans so they are also considered imperfect, atheists think its BS for a christian to say he is perfect because of God, its a complete mockery of what atheist think because God does not even exist to them....

    well that is again imo
    You cannot say GOD had chosen Peter to be HIS servant so whatever fault Peter did is to be blamed on GOD. It is Peter's imperfection and human weakness that led him do such an act, same also on the servants of the Church, and mind you, never in GOD's power and might did HE touch Peter's own free-will, or other person's free-will to do such grievance. See how wonderful GOD is? How HE let us do what we feel free do in accordance to our own will.

    imo, i think God made Peter make a lot of mistake to show christians what needs and need not be done ;)

    so still, God chose Peter to do a lot of wrong things and good things for Him
    because He created Peter and can do whatever He wants of him.

    Another problem that the people had today is to go out of the circle, out of religion, pointing fingers at every fault committed by the church instead of staying inside the circle, correcting, contributing at their very best to the reformation of the church and its people. It would be nobody's fault I suppose, not even GOD shall I blame for even that act I consider as part of human weakness and the exercise of an individual will-power, to not stand firm in the face of sin and enforce GOD's words but rather chose to step back and create another organization, imitation or otherwise. For I tell you, there is no other Church than Christ’s church, and there is only one Church acknowledged by Christ through Peter and Paul.

    which human made religious church are you referring to?

    yes, i believe its right to say correcting and contributing...but to use human effort it will still make everything even more confusing...i guess the right way is to use God's way instead? then again im just guessing

    For only when you focus yourself to GOD and HIS teachings, every day of your life, reading the Bible endlessly, willfully doing what HE wills us to do, through time you feel your faith is becoming strong, only then this human weakness is beaten, so strong that even your put of faulty words would not be practiced.

    that my friend, is what i fail to see from christians...but i do see some that are near to it ;)
    If you want to blame GOD, consider yourself a god first then do all those grievances, there you have the right to blame a god, because that god is you who is the doer of such act. Do not blame GOD for his goodness when we know the doer is not GOD and only a human being with certain limitations and weakness.
    some blame themselves why they are stupid enough they believed in God, not exactly blame God, some base on His existence and some base on personal reasons and of vanity :D
    In the name of GOD, despite the persecutions, I will stay with HIM. HIS teachings are true and good, and I will have eternal life in HIS kingdom. After all, he is OUR CREATOR.

    naks! good for you ;)
  • Frank_MackeyFrank_Mackey Banned by Admin PExer
    stillwater wrote: »
    The problem with the people today is making a haste judgment about something, without taking much into consideration the reality behind the issue, in the basis of his own level of understanding of the same. We must remember that no human being except Christ who walked this earth stain free, “for not your way, an earthly way, is the perfect way.”
    Says your religious dogma only. Please don't expect other people to buy into that.

    Is your way the perfect way? Maybe so from your own personal perspective. So what is your determinant of perfection of doing good, or evil as an atheist, as a nonbeliever? Would you say, GOD’s goodness as described in the Bible is not the perfect way, so what for you is the perfect way? Or is it your way of mocking GOD, which atheists enjoyed of doing that is the perfect way? Then what is it that distinguishes your perfection. What is your level of measurement of perfection? Bring me any person who is all good, or even all knowing if that measures your perfection, who had been proven to know everything, about mysteries of the world and out of the world, the universe, the gravity, prove to me then I’ll believe you. If Einstein is your measurement of perfection, of knowledge and goodness, ho ho ho, solve the gravity issue first, bring forth any evidence, as you atheist relies on evidence, give us proof from Einstein the presence of something outside the milky way, then you can say the measure of your perfection is perfect.
    The only one here obssessed with 'being perfect' are brainwashed cult believers like you.
    For even in goodness you cannot determine the level of your perfection without something or someone as referenced to, in our case which is Christ,
    Yeah, your standard for perfection sure is flawed and arbitrary. Jesus Christ is NOT perfect, you only say and claim that he is and the evidence is that it actually more his followers who are propagating this myth than Jesus himself. You twist and pervert what Jesus has said to promulgate the cult of his name/personality and it is more about your particular cult than any universal belief. Many other great spiritual teachers have come and gone who have taught us things even deeper than what is found in the judeo-christian bible, Krishnamurti being notable in being recognized by many to be a true teacher and yet dismantling his organization in order to make a very important spiritual point.

    The point about Jesus being the 'only' figure claimed (we're not even talking about it really happening) to have been resurrected is a c0ck-and-bull story for which there is ample and solid historical evidence. As proof how blockheaded converts to the cult of 'Christ' can be, they keep repeating bible verses like Mark 8:12 like drones, but absolutely fail to understand the meaning of that verse.

    You are so desperate for a *sign* that you tell yourself that only Jesus is a true teacher because he was the "only one" reputed to have risen from the dead (and this is not even necessarily a true story at all!). In fact a lot of evidence has arisen that this was nothing but a fiction invented by the Christian cult many decades after Jesus died!

    The tragedy is that Jesus freaks, instead of being able to absorb what Jesus taught are stuck fixating on the label instead of learning the spiritual lessons and actually raising their consciousness. You are, in fact, very lazy and thus stuck on a very low level of spiritual/moral awareness and would like to drag or keep everyone down at their level. The lessons Jesus are trying to teach are LOST on you, because you uselessly fixate on the person instead of the teachings. That person, by the way, is no longer around, so get over it!
    Tell me then, what is your measurement of perfection that you have to blame and mock GOD for human sinfulness and make yourself fault-free and blame-free?
    The only 'God' being mocked here is your make-believe God whose attributes and characteristics you yourself have seen fit to assign to. The only thing being mocked here is your abuse of the word, concept and idea of 'God'.
    See how wonderful GOD is? How HE let us do what we feel free do in accordance to our own will.
    You mean YOUR 'God'? Last I heard he's quite willing to inflict eternal torment on all of us who do not believe in him.
    Another problem that the people had today is to go out of the circle, out of religion, pointing fingers at every fault committed by the church instead of staying inside the circle, correcting, contributing at their very best to the reformation of the church and its people.
    You mean pyramid. With certain people on top decreeing how 'God' is supposed to operate.

    For I tell you, there is no other Church than Christ’s church, and there is only one Church acknowledged by Christ through Peter and Paul.
    This is nothing but a lot of hokey propaganda. And which church would that be today?
    For only when you focus yourself to GOD and HIS teachings, every day of your life, reading the Bible endlessly, willfully doing what HE wills us to do, through time you feel your faith is becoming strong, only then this human weakness is beaten, so strong that even your put of faulty words will be erased.
    This certainly sounds like Winston Smith of 1984 when he was finally tortured into convincing himself that 2+2=5. :lol: Your beliefs are grotesque and your attempting to infect other people with them is disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself.
    If you want to blame GOD, consider yourself a god first then do all those grievances, there you have the right to blame a god, because that god is you who is the doer of such act. Do not blame GOD for his goodness when we know the doer is not GOD and only a human being with certain limitations and weaknesses.
    No one here is blaming 'God'. All that is being done here is destroying your extremely flawed concept of who or what you believe 'God' to be.
    In the name of GOD, despite the persecutions, I will stay with HIM. HIS teachings are true and good, and I will have eternal life in HIS kingdom. After all, he is OUR CREATOR.
    There are 2 persecutions going on here:

    1) your self-persecution wrought by your belief of grotesque spiritual/moral ideas

    2) your persecution of others by insisting they share in those same grotesque beliefs

    It is not other people that need saving, it is you that do.

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