Isn't State enforced Atheism responsible for MILLIONS OF DEATHS... — PinoyExchange

Isn't State enforced Atheism responsible for MILLIONS OF DEATHS...

in the soviet/communist era? If so, why should people adopt atheism? Does killing in the name of Eugenics/Social Darwinism/Biological psychology as reprehensible as killing in the name of God?
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  • havok47
    havok47 .9 bar = 1
    in the soviet/communist era? If so, why should people adopt atheism? Does killing in the name of Eugenics/Social Darwinism/Biological psychology as reprehensible as killing in the name of God?

    Yes it is also reprehensible. Holy War Killings, Nazi Genocide, Pol-Pot, Stalin and Lenin's killings were all despicable acts.
  • micketymoc
    micketymoc Oversized Member
    Was Communism a bloodthirsty failure because of atheism? Did atheism per se systematically influence Communists to do bad things? First you have to make a case for this - the evidence doesn't sound too encouraging.

    There is a case (hidden somewhere in your argument) against any system that dehumanizes, be it Marxism or racism (the root cause of eugenic theory, not Darwinism per se) or evangelical Christianity. My personal experience of the atheists I know shows that they reject Christianity because of its dehumanizing strictures.
  • micketymoc wrote: »
    Was Communism a bloodthirsty failure because of atheism? Did atheism per se systematically influence Communists to do bad things? First you have to make a case for this - the evidence doesn't sound too encouraging.

    It's convincing. Read Hitler's Helpers:The Coming of the Third Reich. A "humanist" ideology bereft of traditional religion which places the PARTY FIRST and foremost as the source of all (relative) morality ... this is what made the Nazis brutally efficient.

    How does Atheism counter this? Is there a standard for Humanism? Who's humanism?

    Does humanism "roll out of the barrel of a smoking gun"?
  • mac_bolan00
    mac_bolan00 Banned by Admin
    too easy to answer. why don't you look into the basic differences between theory and practice? i mean, the vast majority of atheists would rather mind their own business than aspire for being in hitler's shoes (or stalin's).
  • the crusades conducted their military exploits in the name of christendom- sanctioned by the pope.
    why make atheism=nazi=bad, when christianity=crusades=bad also?
  • don't forget the witch hunts.
  • bludwid
    bludwid U Want Somma Dis?
    It's convincing. Read Hitler's Helpers:The Coming of the Third Reich. A "humanist" ideology bereft of traditional religion which places the PARTY FIRST and foremost as the source of all (relative) morality ... this is what made the Nazis brutally efficient.

    How does Atheism counter this? Is there a standard for Humanism? Who's humanism?

    Does humanism "roll out of the barrel of a smoking gun"?

    Any concept that is interpreted in an extremist manner, atheism, theism, etc is bad. Period.

    You have to look deeper than just the belief system itself. Most of these twisted interpretations of beliefs always have an underhanded political motivation lurking at the bottom. Extremist Islam, Christianity of a few hundred years ago, or, as you mentioned "state-enforced atheism".

    Darwin didn't mean for his Theory of Evolution to be twisted by Hitler. Nor did Karl Marx promote the purges. Nor did Jesus Christ's teachings guide Torquemada into slaughtering hundreds of innocents. Again, I'm sure Mohammed himself wouldn't have wanted Muslims to blow themselves up.

    If you ask whether state-enforced Atheism was responsible for millions of deaths, then the answer is yes. But if the point you're trying to make is that atheism is bad because millions died in the USSR, then that is a skewed line of reasoning. That's the same black-and-white view being employed by these extremists sowing terror at present.
  • micketymoc
    micketymoc Oversized Member
    It's convincing. Read Hitler's Helpers:The Coming of the Third Reich. A "humanist" ideology bereft of traditional religion which places the PARTY FIRST and foremost as the source of all (relative) morality ... this is what made the Nazis brutally efficient.

    How does Atheism counter this? Is there a standard for Humanism? Who's humanism?

    Does humanism "roll out of the barrel of a smoking gun"?

    Your argument is unclear. Who are your culprits anyway - the Nazis or the Communists? The Nazis, for all their bluster, were Christian through and through. Don't make the mistake of conflating the two.

    Perhaps you misunderstand my point. You ask a loaded question, laying the responsibility for millions of death squarely on atheism's doorstep. I say it's not atheism, but any dehumanizing dogma, that deserves blame. You shift the blame to "humanism", and try to paint Nazism as a "humanist" philosophy. You're shifting the goalposts from one totalitarian regime to another; try to stick to one point.

    For all your wiggling, you still haven't provided evidence that atheism makes people do bad things. The biologist Richard Dawkins deals with it in his new book The God Delusion, on pages 272-278:

    "The question comes up after just about every public lecture that I ever give on the subject of religion. It is put in a truculent way, indignantly freighted with two assumptions: (1) not only were Hitler and Stalin atheists, but (2) they did their terrible deeds because they were atheists. Assumption (1) is true for Stalin and dubious for Hitler. But assumption (1) is irrelevant anyway, because assumption (2) is false. It is certainly illogical if it is thought to follow from (1). Even if we accept that Hitler and Stalin shared atheism in common, they both also had moustaches, as had Saddam Hussein. So what? The interesting question is not whether evil (or good) individual human beings were religious or were atheists. We are not in the business of counting evil heads and compiling two rival roll calls of iniquity. The fact that Nazi belt buckles were inscribed with 'Gott mit uns' (God with us) doesn't prove anything, at least not without a lot more discussion. What matters is not whether Hitler and Stalin were atheists, but whether atheism systematically influences people to do bad things. There is not the smallest evidence that it does....

    "Stalin was an atheist and Hitler probably wasn't; but even if he was, the bottom line of the Stalin/Hitler debating point is very simple. Individual atheists may do evil things, in the name of, respectively, dogmatic and doctrinaire Marxism, and an insane and unscientific eugenics theory tinged with sub-Wagnerian ravings. Religious wars are fought in the name of religion, and they have been horribly frequent in history. I cannot think of any war that has been fought in the name of atheism. Why should it? A war might be motivated by economic greed, by political ambition, by ethnic or racial prejudice, by deep grievance or revenge, or by patriotic belief in the destiny of a nation. Even more plausible as a motive for war is an unshakeable faith that one's religion is the only true one, reinforced by a holy book that explicitly condemns all heretics and followers of rival religion to death, and explicity promises that the soldiers of God will go straight to a martyrs' heaven.... by contrast, why would anyone go to war for the sake of an absence of belief?"
  • vinta18
    vinta18 What the frell?!?
    The regimes just happened to be atheist. The lack of belief in a god doesn't make people want to conquer the world or kill other people. On the contrary it's the strong belief in something, whether it's the superiority of their system or the inferiority of other races. Something that extremists of any religion share in common.
  • Fenix wrote: »
    the crusades conducted their military exploits in the name of christendom- sanctioned by the pope.
    why make atheism=nazi=bad, when christianity=crusades=bad also?

    They both resulted in bad things... I am kinda disappointed that atheism doesn't yield anything better. Just goes to show you.....anything manmade = [email protected]
  • loc0
    loc0 loc0.deviantart.com
    ^ You still missed one detail, the Nazis are Christian.
  • payter
    payter Banned by Admin
    in dawkins's delusion book
    he attacks the intolerance etc...
    of the abrahamic religions by citing the
    acts of their followers
    and yet when the acts of atheists
    are examined he and his fellow godless
    all make an about-face
    worthy of my ROTC unit
    and say its an invalid observation blah blah
    idiots

    its also playin safe
    when he says no war has been waged
    in the name of atheism.
    but of course no one
    goes to war because of simple disbelief hehehe
    the question is how their disbelief
    affected those historical madmen
    does he want us to believe that
    all of the war mongers in
    history were all pious altarboys?
    idiot :)
  • micketymoc
    micketymoc Oversized Member
    "Anything manmade"? So God is responsible just for the good things religion does and not the bad? Does God get a pass when he endorses genocide?

    Let's not cherry-pick what belief in God is responsible for - God-belief may foster charity on one hand, but it also fosters mass murder on the other. Atheism, on the other hand... yes, back to your original question. Where's the evidence that atheism influences people to do bad things?
  • gekokujo
    gekokujo Original Fire
    in the soviet/communist era? If so, why should people adopt atheism? Does killing in the name of Eugenics/Social Darwinism/Biological psychology as reprehensible as killing in the name of God?
    you refute yourself in the space of three sentences. your own words: killing in the soviet/communist era was made in the name of Eugenics/Social Darwinism/Biological psychology, not atheism. and I might add political expediency, paranoia, etc.

    none of these are part and parcel of atheism. it’s almost a mantra here at RoT to say that atheism is simply a lack of belief in God. nothing more, nothing less.

    and, yes, killing in the name of these is as reprehensible as killing in the name of God. again, by your own reasoning and unlike atheism per se, belief in God would be responsible for MILLIONS OF DEATHS. seest thou the log in thine own eye?
  • Lucca Yamazaki
    Lucca Yamazaki die boy abunda die!
    bah!

    state-enforced anything always causes millions of deaths, eventually, one way or another...
  • bludwid
    bludwid U Want Somma Dis?
    They both resulted in bad things... I am kinda disappointed that atheism doesn't yield anything better. Just goes to show you.....anything manmade = [email protected]

    That's another generalization... Are you really willing to stand by your belief that anything manmade is Cr*p?
  • loc0
    loc0 loc0.deviantart.com
    We're all man-made after all. And the process is quite enjoyable ;)
  • They both resulted in bad things... I am kinda disappointed that atheism doesn't yield anything better. Just goes to show you.....anything manmade = [email protected]
    Hehe.

    Now if only religions wasn't manmade too...
  • Oneiros wrote: »
    Hehe.

    Now if only religions wasn't manmade too...

    I wasn't denying that. Read the post again, doofus.*okay*
  • loc0 wrote: »
    And the process is quite enjoyable ;)

    I'll vouch for that. You guys in the Philippines have it made. Easy sex, easy beer, easy gambling, easy life (way cheaper than the US). Pinoys know how to live life to the fullest--bars, clubs, and outdoor cafes always full on the weekends. If I could, I'd move back to the Philippines permanently. The women there are amazing. *okay*
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