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What's wrong with Marvel Comics today?

Has Joe Quesada hit the wall in terms of creativity?

Is DC actually -- with all due respect to them -- the new House of Ideas?

It seems that the Ultimate line is so much more popular than the mainstream versions.

They seem to be more reactive to what DC is doing.

And they still have Chris Claremont. Sorry but Claremont's best years are behind him.

And they should have kept Grant Morrisson.
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Comments

  • mag spawn ka na lang, pinoy pa ang artist!!!!

    Mabuhay ka Philip Tan!!!
  • The guy that really turned it all around was, my favorite writer, Geof Johns. You got to love what he did to JSA. It looks like he is the mister fix it guy and continuity expert of DC.


    Try nyo kaya Jam comics kaya lang pambabae. Pero ok yung Lastik Man from Manggo. Pinoy na pinoy. :D
  • ^ True, i'm also a fan of Geoff Johns since he made my favorite GL return to being the main man... and I think the new GL series is going to pick up in one year later when Hal confronts his past in revenge of the green lanterns after the infinite crisis...

    My problem with Geoff though is the fact that he made Infinite Crisis a dumping ground for useless characters... come one, superboy-prime's murder of the other Titans.. He's known in the DC message board as the head mangler for what his choices of deaths of heroes and villains alike... like for example pantha or mongal...

    The problem with Marvel nowadays is they're just trying to keep up with the hype DC's been getting due to DC's radical changes. DC made drastic changes with their own characters (ex: Flash, Wonder Woman, Blue Beetle, The Spectre etc.)... Oh, I guess Marvel made a desperate move with that New Avengers thing which looked like a plagiarize concept of JLA... The best of Marvel fighting alongside Cap like Logan, Spidey etc., it's so like the whole Justice League concept... okay, I gotta admit DC's is also desperate these days in making a sequel of the Crisis that happened 20 year's ago... but as long as Johns still around, I'm gonna buy DC stuff for months to come :)
  • HulkHulk PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    Personally, I am experincing reality-fatigue (for lack of a better term) with Marvel. Marvel has been heavily immersing themselves with real-life issues like discrimination and terrorism in the previous years. Although these issues provide interesting reading, I cannot sustain my interest over the course of years, without looking for good, old super-hero stories that DC provides us with. We could only take too much paranoia, brooding and desperation found in Marvel's books, that we end up dropping them.

    Case in point: Daredevil. I thoroughly enjoyed Bendis' run on DD especially when his identity was outed to the press. But after three years of reading the stuff, I realized that I wanted more super-hero action. Unfortunately only 20% of DDs pages actually showed Matt in costume! I finally dropped it.

    The same thing also happened to me with Brubaker's run in Captain America. I am dropping it after the final issue in the story arc. The stories are simply depressing!

    DC meanwhile offers the stuff that made us fall in love with comics the first place. Iconic super-heroes pulverizing bad guys! It's what makes Geoff Johns so good!

    And the thing about DC is that you want a taste of real-life issues, you just hop it over to their Vertigo line and enjoy titles like 100 Bullets to get your fill.


    :frank:
  • I hope they put spectre in the vertigo line. He will fit in there. I like cap though. He still has the can do attitude. Although I think O.A. na si spiderman nung house of m. Bended reality lang e pero akala mo e binagsakan na ng mundo.

    I also hope bumalik na agad powers ni magneto para kawawain nya uli yung overrated na wolverine na yun. ^^,
  • ^If you mean the Spectre, the spirit of vengeance then I doubt he would transfer to the vertigo line... DC's planning something for him during 52, and in a new host. Atleast they put Captain Atom in the Wildstorm line, to help boost the sales in that brand.

    Ok, I haven't bought any Marvel comic since the 90's when they pulled a crap on Spidey's Ben Riley thing... but I heard a lot of people say House of M was a big dissappointment, and a complete waste of paper. I'm not familiar with the House of M, but I guess that started the downhill of Marvel comics these days.
  • I don't like Spectre's new host. :mecry:

    As for the comparison of JLA and New Avengers, is more of a solid group whereas New Avengers is sort of an odd couple, or in the Avenger's case, odd group. I hope for the next incarnation of the JLA, Superman won't be part of it. JLA storylines tend to make Superman more vulnerable. I don't mind if JLA is a Superman show because Superman is DC. :)
  • flareflare PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    The problem with Marvel? Quantity over quality and editorial interference.

    Case in point, there are stories about writers and artists quitting due to editorial interference. The editors could've left the writers alone to do their own thing, but they alone control majority of the storylines. That's why Geoff Johns, among others, left Marvel and will never work there again (also what happened to Grant Morrison). Same thing goes to Chirs Claremont during the early '90s. As for New Avengers, it's a collective group of the popular characters (Cap. A, Iron Man, Spider-Man, the OMAC man known as Logan) and Bendis' dream boys (Luke Cage, Spider-Woman, Sentry) that never got to me that the Justice League did.

    Another problem is hiring the wrong writers. Despite their Hollywood status, Joss Whedon and Allan Heinberg managed to write good stories. On the other hand, Reginald Hudlin (based on what I've heard) is clearly disliked by Black Panther fans (of course, the BP-Storm wedding is very fast that I hoped it ends in a massacre); Peter Milligan, a good writer but clearly a bad one on X-Men; and Claremont, while very spectacular during his early days, is writing for the wrong generation (though End of Greys is good).

    So does that mean DC is better?

    Many DC fans complained the treatment over its female characters ever since they stuffed Kyle Rayner's girlfriend inside the fridge. Sue Dibny, Jean Loring and Jade are some examples.

    Then some mischarcterizations over the popular characters. Batman becoming such a jacka**, his psuedo-mother Leslie Thompkins became a murderer, Nightwing got a huge kick in the nuts when he was written by Devin Grayson, Superman just became Superpansy and Wonder Woman became a killer, among others.

    Even though I really don't care about Hal Jordan, what was the point of him coming back other than to satisfy drooling fanboys (but then again I could say the same thing about Green Arrow, Jean Grey, Hawkeye, etc.)?

    So all in all, if DC manages to pull Infinite Crisis, One Year Later and 52 very well, they get the thumbs up for me. Marvel, while I love YA, X-Factor and Astonishing X-Men, needs to improve their game plan. Starting with the editorial management.

    BTW: I'm planning to buy JSA trades. so what's the best one?
  • For me there isn't really a better brand in comics may it be Marvel or DC but it's a matter of who has the higher sales... that's why DC made up this Infinite Crisis thing to boost their sales since it's been 20 years before Crisis on Inifinite Earths, but I heard Marvel's planning to do a special series this year called Civil War...

    Yep, DC seldom focuses on their character personalities... take the case of Elongated Man, during Identity Crisis he was on the spotlight, his wife got raped and murdered then the league is in shambles then suddenly during Infinite Crisis *poof* he's gone, nowhere to be found. Yeah, that's the same with the Atom... although I heard they're going to be big in 52 but they're having a very long vacation break in my opinion. And some writers just don't understand the characters they're running, take Green Arrow during Winnick's run. the series doesn't even get into the top 50 list anymore, Ollie's becoming a backstabber, and a retard. heck even Johns portrayed Ollie better in the GL run than in his own book...

    Yeah, I also noticed DC's been pissed with their female characters these days... Hawkwoman, Jade, Batgirl etc. heck even Mongal got her head thrashed during GL #8. I guess DC thinks mass murder means more sales, although I hated the fact that they treat their lesser heroes like trash.

    Even though I'm glad Hal Jordan is back but they should have given John Stewart a shot in his own solo and made him the main GL, though know if they're making Kyle do a Hal in his Ion gig. The guy's got more character than Hal or Kyle in my opinion... according to Johns, they're going to bring back Hank Henshaw the Cyborg Superman to mess things up with Hal and even Superman's life, guess this happens during OYL and so the spotlights on the Green Lanterns this year hence the return of the corps and Ion.
  • Actually, comic books started to have problems during the gimmick era (aka 90s). And probably, no title better epitomizes the gimmick era than McFarlane's Spawn.

    Remember those years when it was cool seeing Jim-Lee style art, and gimmick covers (e.g., hologram covers) are all over the place?

    It caused the comic book industry to self implode and up to now, they're still in their recuperating stage.

    Actually, as an X-Men fan, I still haven't read a major storyline that would match the critically acclaimed Age of Apocalypse storyline ever since it was published. X-books went downhill after that.
  • Comic book companies go through a cycle of bad strories every now and then. I think Marvel hit the wall about a year ago. The entrance of Dan Didio into DC and his subsequent exclusive signing of talent knocked Marvel for a loop. Marvel had gotten fat and gluttonous again.

    There have been very few interesting books left for them. It is embarrassing for them in some way to see their Ultimate line doing much better than their regular titles.

    DC on the other hand as great as some of their books are now you wonder if they've gotten more bloodthirsty and gimmicky with their stories. I understand the need to mine old storylines for new ones but perennial revisionist spins and untold subplots can be disappointing and frustrating.

    But whatever it is, DC is doing a better job now.
  • flare wrote:

    BTW: I'm planning to buy JSA trades. so what's the best one?

    Para sa akin black vengeance at black reign. Paborito ko kasi si Black Adam at Atom Smasher. *okay*

    Favorite moment ko is yung nagstandup si Atom Smasher kay Spectre at yung summon ni Adam yung Lightning para marevive si Atom Smasher. Poignant ending. :mecry:
  • According to Johns, they're going to bring back Hank Henshaw the Cyborg Superman to mess things up with Hal and even Superman's life, guess this happens during OYL and so the spotlights on the Green Lanterns this year hence the return of the corps and Ion.

    Sana balik din Doomsday. Para maging super uli si Superman. Nagiging supporting character na lang si Superman e.
  • ^ Yeah, they should bring back Doomsday since DC has the habit of reviving its own characters back from the dead then I guess why not... but Superman's becoming a d!ck and a wuss... just like what Batman said to Supes in IC #1 "The last time you really inspired anyone was when you were DEAD!". Supes has been mischaracterized ever since he returned from the dead.. Zero Hour onwards, I think he should be given the respect he deserves since he is DC's main man... even Batman has more mini series than him. heck, even Marvel does a better job with Captain America(IMO)
  • According to the people of ign.com during the Wondercon in New York, DC showed more projects than Marvel has... so has Marvel really started losing their house of ideas? My dad told me that during the 70's and 80's Marvel was more popular than DC, although during the 90's no comic book seemed dominant because both companies had crappy times but at the dawn of the 21st century DC started showing some spark and for the first time in about 20-30years(?) DC was ahead or Marvel comics.

    For info on the events in wondercon click on the link below:
    http://www.newsarama.com/index.html
  • tikbalangbynitetikbalangbynite PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    ...while I still consider myself a marvel zombie, the most interesting titles I'm reading now are neither from the big two. Image and Vertigo have and are coming up with some very interesting stories. DMZ, Loveless and the Exterminators being some of the ones I intend to follow.

    The main problem with Marvel and DC right now I think is continuity. Most of their main titles are bogged down by 30++ years of backstories and trying to tie all these characters together in an attempt to make a cohesive "universe" is a herculean task. i think this is where DC has an edge because from what I understand, their creative process right now is more coordinated and organized whereas with Marvel, contradictions and time lapses abound. Also, this is why I think the Marvel Ultimate line is such a huge hit, because it was written with continuity in mind.
  • Hulk wrote:
    Personally, I am experincing reality-fatigue (for lack of a better term) with Marvel. Marvel has been heavily immersing themselves with real-life issues like discrimination and terrorism in the previous years. Although these issues provide interesting reading, I cannot sustain my interest over the course of years, without looking for good, old super-hero stories that DC provides us with. We could only take too much paranoia, brooding and desperation found in Marvel's books, that we end up dropping them.

    Case in point: Daredevil. I thoroughly enjoyed Bendis' run on DD especially when his identity was outed to the press. But after three years of reading the stuff, I realized that I wanted more super-hero action. Unfortunately only 20% of DDs pages actually showed Matt in costume! I finally dropped it.

    The same thing also happened to me with Brubaker's run in Captain America. I am dropping it after the final issue in the story arc. The stories are simply depressing!

    DC meanwhile offers the stuff that made us fall in love with comics the first place. Iconic super-heroes pulverizing bad guys! It's what makes Geoff Johns so good!

    And the thing about DC is that you want a taste of real-life issues, you just hop it over to their Vertigo line and enjoy titles like 100 Bullets to get your fill.


    :frank:

    Well said Hulk! (hmmm, never thought I'd hear myself saying that). It seems all that writers are interested in now is doing things that have never been done before and breaking taboos. Homosexuality, heroes murdering, *****, incest. While bringing up these topics every once in a while certainly gives edge to the story, using them all the time is not just depressing, it can also get pretty boring. This is because we get desensitized to these issues, and eventually expect them to come out all the time. Compare this to the Yellowjacket-Wasp divorce storyline. Back then, stories were wholesome and about do-gooding, then BAM! Hank hits his wife and it's curtains for their marriage. It just hit like an eighteen-wheeler because you never expected it. Now every issue is "Which nazi-loving transvestite hero raped and murdered his mother, AFTER he stuffed her body with cocaine?", but there's no bang anymore. It's just a storyline with no emotional investment because you KNOW the writers are just TRYING OH SO HARD to get your attention. I say writers concentrate less on doing things that have never been done before, and concentrate more on doing things they should be doing in the first place, writing good stories about super heroes.

    Also, regarding editorial interference, Jim Shooter was a tyrant to his writers, and yet some of the best (if not the best) hero-oriented storylines came during his time (which was incidentally, Marvel's Golden Era), so I don't think this is the problem. I feel writers have become egotistical and too brand-conscious about their names, so a Grant Morrison or a Josh Whedon will insist on doing things "their way" and messing-up continuity and even the spirit of the book, usually with the usual dark brooding gimmick, so that they can stick out and be acclaimed. If anything, I think there should be MORE control over storylines to preserve the integrity of the books and even the entire company as a whole.
  • im kinda excited for millar's civil war and pak's incredible hulk....with carlos pagulayan on pencils (yeah sikat ang pinoy)...im having my copy signed (hope he does sign it)...i guess this year would be marvels chance to prove that everythings its been doing stands for something and makes sense...thats mainly what i noticed with marvel for the past year, some of their front liners didnt really make sense...but i think marvel has some good titles: marvel team up, captain america etc
  • While Marvel isn't doing as well as DC right now, I wouldn't say that they're crap or something like that... House of M wasn't a complete waste of paper, it was mediocre but not bad... I'll mention the bright spots that they have: Young Avengers, Runaways, Astonishing X-Men, Millar's MK Spider-Man run, Wolverine Enemy of the State, Ultimates vol 2, Supreme Power, New Thunderbolts, Slott's She Hulk, Thor Ragnarok... Civil War looks good as well...
  • Even though DC has been doing better in the comic book world right now, Marvel still holds the top spot of market shares for January but not as much as they use to though...

    http://www.newsarama.com/marketreport/Jan06sales.html

    Although I've never liked Marvel crossovers, i'm willing to buy the Civil War #1 and see how it goes... the cover looks great and I think it's going to be way better than House of M

    the one thing I hate with Quesada right now is that he shouldn't have said negative comments about how DC runs their company, especially during the Wonder Con on his view of DC's weekly series 52...
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