r u going to hell? see here....

Anonymouz

ach_soo

Hail virgin (through the ears) Mary!

jisc

ummm... sports fans? cause they go to the games on sunday instead of church?

decoy47

I wonder what's better though; dying now and going to hell or getting to live to see the Apocalypse and then getting sent to hell. What do you guys think?

easter

People will go to hell not because they are murderers, drunkards or what have you. People will go to hell because they are SINNERS!

Who are the sinners?

"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." (Revelations 21:8)

Someone may not be a murderer,or does not practice magic but surely he or she has lied about something sometimes. So technically this goes for everybody!

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Can my good works save me?

Jesus said in Matthew 5:48 "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

Who can then be perfect? Of course nobody lahat tayo may kasalanan eh.

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Is there a solution?

YES.

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16)

Jesus Christ is the key for you to go to heaven.

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It is not your good works who will save you but your faith in Jesus Christ as your Savior.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-comfort/heaven-goodenough.html

bleh

see all of you in hell.

Onomatopoet

what about 'all of the above'?

Onomatopoet

decoy47 wrote:

I wonder what's better though; dying now and going to hell or getting to live to see the Apocalypse and then getting sent to hell. What do you guys think?

i think i'd wanna buy tickets to see the apocalypse.

Milliardo

easter wrote:

People will go to hell not because they are murderers, drunkards or what have you. People will go to hell because they are SINNERS!

Aren't murderes and drunkards sinners?

"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." (Revelations 21:8)

Can my good works save me?

Jesus said in Matthew 5:48 "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

Who can then be perfect? Of course nobody lahat tayo may kasalanan eh.

Wow, what a question! If that's the verse you use, then it actually supports doing good works, because Jesus' point there is for one to be perfect just as His Father is perfect. Note that Jesus is calling people there to perfection. Your reasoning then is flawed: Who can then be perfect? Of course nobody lahat tayo may kasalanan eh. That's inherently flawed, since it is already the Lord Himself who is calling people to perfection.

It is not your good works who will save you but your faith in Jesus Christ as your Savior.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."

Again, forgetting verse 10 there, I see. Paul's point in Ephesians is that one should not boast about one's good works, since they also come from God (verse 10). If the Protestant notion about good works being not necessary is correct, then Paul's assertion in verse 10 regarding it, that God made good works for us to live in, would be frivolous. But then that's not the case. Now, let us make it clear: good works by themselves would not of course save anyone; faith in our Lord Jesus Christ and good works are essential for salvation. It's not neither one nor the other (which is the Protestant notion) but both, which is the Catholic teaching.

crazyfunk88

buti na lang alang PEXER hmph!

easter

Milliardo wrote:

Who can then be perfect? Of course nobody lahat tayo may kasalanan eh. That's inherently flawed, since it is already the Lord Himself who is calling people to perfection.

Except for Jesus can you think of anybody who has achieved perfection? Perfection meaning someone who did not sin? The Lord maybe calling us to perfection but who can really be perfect in one's lifetime?

Milliardo wrote:

Again, forgetting verse 10 there, I see.

Verse 10 was not included because it talks about something else. Let's look at verses 8 to 10 and see what it means.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."


Paul is only talking here to those who are already saved meaning those who has accepted Jesus as Savior through faith. The PREPARED GOOD WORKS is only for those who have already been saved. It is not the Good WORKS that saves you but you now have the Holy Spirit within you, clearing your eyes on what needs to be done. Having experienced Jesus's saving grace you will now do these things for Him.

So what does this mean? You are SAVED FIRST. Then God prepares the good works for you to do.

joelb

One question brother easter... Why should I do good works if I'm saved already? If I'm saved then nothing that happens can take that away from me right? What's the point of working then when I know that I'll be going to heaven anyway and it doesn't matter what I do?

I could just lie around all day knowing that I'm saved and even when people ask for my help I can just shrug my shoulders at them and say "Why should I help? I'm going to heaven anyway."

easter

When you have experienced the saving grace of Jesus and have felt His love, you will realize that the right thing for you to is to accomplish such tasks. You will obey Him as an act of worship. You will obey not so as to be saved, since you are alread,y but you will do these things out of love.

When you do things for your parents do you do it just so as they will love you more? No. You do it because you want to love back.

God Bless.

joelb

That sounds like so much...work.

What if I choose to believe, thereby being saved, yet I choose not to work because I already am? What compels me to work for my fellow man? Jesus loves me whatever I do anyway, right? It might be the right thing to do, but according to that, it's unnecessary. I believe thereby I'm saved.

If I don't work for my fellow man, can I be UN-saved?

easter

When one has a true relationship in the Lord it will show through the fruits of the Holy Spirit within us.

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law." (Galatians 5:22-23)

In order to be achieved these things will need the person to act.

Milliardo

easter wrote:

Except for Jesus can you think of anybody who has achieved perfection? Perfection meaning someone who did not sin? The Lord maybe calling us to perfection but who can really be perfect in one's lifetime?

No one but Christ was born perfect; however, our Lord would not call us to perfection if He didn't think we are capable of it. Why would Jesus then encourage us to be perfect just as His Father is perfect if He did not believe we can live a life of perfection?

Verse 10 was not included because it talks about something else. Let's look at verses 8 to 10 and see what it means.

Verase 10 does not talk about something else. It is part and parcel of verse 8 and 9. Since you quoted it, let us study what it says:

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."

Now, Paul here is noting that we are God's workmanship. Does that imply only those who have been saved? It does not; each person is God's creation--God's workmanship. We are created in Christ Jesus. Recall again John 1:1-2, wherein we see that Christ was at the beginning of creation. We are thus created to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. God has thus prepared the good works we are to do in advance, since we are to live in them as Christ taught us. But even if we take your explanation below:

Paul is only talking here to those who are already saved meaning those who has accepted Jesus as Savior through faith. The PREPARED GOOD WORKS is only for those who have already been saved. It is not the Good WORKS that saves you but you now have the Holy Spirit within you, clearing your eyes on what needs to be done. Having experienced Jesus's saving grace you will now do these things for Him.

It still does not negate the necessity of good works; indeed, the very verse itself shows us that we must do good works, for they are created by God for us to do. Why would God create those good works for us to do in advance if He does not see any use or inherent value in it for us?

easter

If I don't work for my fellow man, can I be UN-saved?

Again with the fruits of the spirit if you are truly saved, you will act with kindness towards your fellow man.

This is a state of your saved condition. If indeed you have been truly saved then you will know what God has called on you to do.

"For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life." (1 Thessalonians 4:7)

"for it is written: 'Be holy, because I am holy.'" (1 Pet. 1:16)

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand." (John 10:28)

"For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." (Ephesians 2:10)

IF ONE IS TRULY SAVED... NO ONE CAN SNATCH HIM FROM THE LORD'S HAND.

http://www.carm.org/doctrine/salvation.htm

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-acb/acb-t006.html

Milliardo

easter wrote:

Again with the fruits of the spirit if you are truly saved, you will act with kindness towards your fellow man.

Does that mean non-Christians do not act with kindness to their fellow men?

This is a state of your saved condition. If indeed you have been truly saved then you will know what God has called on you to do.

Then why are there so many so-called "saved" Christians who do not even know what to do in the first place?

IF ONE IS TRULY SAVED... NO ONE CAN SNATCH HIM FROM THE LORD'S HAND.

Does this mean you cannot sin?

easter

It says there that a man who is saved cannot be snatched from the Lord's hand. It doesn't say he will not sin again.

Again we will always sin that is why man cannot go to heaven on his own and on his own merits. We can only achieve salvation through Jesus Christ and no one else.

God's ways of love and forgiveness is very different fom man.

Milliardo

easter wrote:

It says there that a man who is saved cannot be snatched from the Lord's hand. It doesn't say he will not sin again.

If a man sins, then wouldn't you say that that man is snatched away from the Lord's hand by the devil, since he (the man) has let himself go of the Lord?

Again we will always sin that is why man cannot go to heaven on his own and on his own merits.

What then is the replacement for sin? In other words, aside from being with Christ, what should be done in order to not fall into sin?

joelb

I don't know brother easter. I'm a simple man and I think your philosophy is simple enough. Faith alone saves right? If I follow that strictly, all I need do is believe then I go to heaven. Nothing else. Anything else Catholics say or imply contradicts it, right? Why should I work afterwards?

If I try to do anything after I'm saved, I'm more likely to fall into sin than anything else, correct? With action and work come the likelihood of making mistakes and sinning. Why can't I just have a gun ready the moment I acquire faith and shoot myself in the head, thereby assuring myself that I go straight to heaven because I'm saved? Why should I subject myself to the possibility of sinning again?