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Are the Ten Commandments for all?

rickymrickym PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_10c2.htm

Most people have only a vague idea of the contents of the Ten Commandments. They might recall that some of the commandments prohibit behaviors like adultery, murder, lying, etc. Thus they might believe that followers of all religions, from Asatru to Zoroastrianism, should find them equally acceptable . However, these beliefs are mistaken. The first four commandments (or five, depending on the format that you use) require specific worship practices that are unacceptable to people of many, perhaps most, religions.

The Ten Commandments raise some serious problems in modern society. Using the Protestant/Eastern Orthodox format derived from Exodus 20:

There are concerns about at least four of the commandments in a multi-faith culture which is dedicated to religious freedom, religious tolerance, personal responsibility and an end to sexism and racism:
The first commandment prohibits the worship of any deity other than Jehovah; this condemns such religions as Buddhism (some traditions), Hinduism, Sikhism, Wicca, etc. It is in direct conflict with the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution which guarantees freedom of religious belief. It is intolerant of other faiths and could generate hatred and violence against minority religions.
The second commandment prohibits the use of religious statues, the taking of photographs, drawing of paintings. etc. It promises that God will punish anyone who worships statues. In addition, their children, grand-children, great-grand-children and perhaps great-great-grand children will also be punished by a God of intolerance and wrath. These concepts are deeply offensive to many people who believe that a person should be held responsible for their own sins and crimes, not those committed by parents, grandparents, great-grand-parents, etc. Also, this is in conflict with the First Amendment's guarantee of religious freedom. Many religious groups and individuals use statues in various ways. Prohibiting or belittling these practices could also generate religious friction and even violence.
The fourth commandment calls for people to not work on Saturday. This intrudes on the lives and practices of many people, particularly followers of faith groups that do not worship on Saturdays.
The tenth commandment treats women as objects that are owned by their husbands. It recognizes human slavery as a normal part of society. The commandment is sexist and has racist overtones.
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Comments

  • There is only one way to know God and that is through the understanding of His Word - the bible. Even secular scholars recognize that the very first Christians based their lives on following the great spiritual law of God—the Ten Commandments. When they said, "The Lord Jesus Christ," they recognized that the word "Lord" means "Boss"—the One you should obey! Jesus reminded them again and again of this vital relationship, as in Luke 6:46: "But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?"

    Do this laws still apply? Did God changed? As He said, "For I am the Lord, I do not change" (Malachi 3:6) Obviously, there can only be one truth, one Creator, one Lawgiver. Your Bible says: "There is one Lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy" (James 4:12). That lawgiver is Almighty God. In their modern search for a man-devised "peace of mind" or a "religion that satisfies," men have totally forgotten about the great God who rules this universe!

    Despite the contradictory ideas and generalizations of organized religious denominations, your Bible clearly states: "Sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4, KJV). Sin is breaking God’s spiritual law—the Ten Commandments. That is definitely and specifically what sin is! Before God will forgive your past sins, you must first repent of breaking His law! You must learn to fear and respect God as the Supreme Ruler of this universe—and as your King and Ruler.

    David wrote: "Oh, how I love your law! It is my meditation all the day" (Psalm 119:97). David studied and pondered God’s law all day long! He learned how to apply it to every situation in life. This gave David wisdom. "You, through Your commandments, make me wiser than my enemies" (v. 98). God’s law showed David the way to go—a way of life. "Your word is a lamp to my feet, and a light to my path" (v. 105). Throughout Psalm 119, David declared how he loved God’s law, and used it as his guide in life.

    God commands: "You shall have no other gods before Me." Have you put something else in place of God? Is your time, your interest, your service taken up more with something other than the true God? What idol have you placed between yourself and the true God, studying His Word, and living by it? Most people who just go to church once a week and take their religion for granted do not actually know what real worship is. They think "worship" is something you do once a week in church, not realizing that it should affect every thought and word and action every day of your life! In everything you think or say or do, you either serve God, or else you serve your own lusts and Satan the devil! The Apostle Paul was inspired to explain this: "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16). There is no middle ground! You either delight in God and His law and serve and obey Him all day long, or else you serve and obey your own lusts! One key to this situation is how you use your time. For your time is your life! The Bible commands us to be "redeeming the time, because the days are evil" (Ephesians 5:16). How much time do you actually spend each week studying and meditating on God’s Word and law as David did? How much time do you spend in earnest, prevailing prayer to Almighty God? How much time do you spend in discussing the Bible with others, teaching it to your family, writing words of spiritual edification to others as well as words of purely social interest?

    The second commandment tells us how to worship the true God, what pitfalls to avoid in our worship, and of the continuing blessing or penalty that comes to our progeny as a result of the way in which we worship Almighty God. "You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord [Eternal] your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments" (Exodus 20:4–6). The natural physical mind cries out for something to help in the worship of God. Physical human beings want some physical object—some "aid" to worship—to "remind" them of the invisible God. Yet that is exactly what is forbidden in this commandment! Jesus said: "But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth: for the Father is seeking such to worship Him" (John 4:23). Notice that it is only the "true" worshipers who are able to worship the Father in spirit and truth. Many others attempt some form of worship but, because they limit their worship by a false concept of God, it is largely in vain. "God is Spirit: and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth" (v. 24). The instant that human beings set up any representation of God, they deny what is essential in God. God is the essence of all power—all wisdom—all love. God is limitless. When a man invents his own mental or physical image of God, he automatically limits in his own thought and worship the God who will not be limited!

    The fourth commandment completes the first section of the Decalogue, which deals with man’s relationship to God. It provides for the perpetual observance of a sign of the relationship between God and man. "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it" (Exodus 20:8–11). This command is, in its wording, the longest of any of the ten. It is placed, protectively as it were, in the very midst of the Ten Commandments. Yet, sad to say, it is the one command about which men "reason" and argue most, and which they would most quickly tear asunder and try to separate from the rest of God’s law. Notice that it starts out with the injunction to "remember." This very statement proves that the Sabbath command was already understood by God’s chosen people and that, in incorporating it as part of His covenant, God was reminding them of a spiritual command of which they already had knowledge. "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." You cannot "keep" cold water hot! And mortal men cannot make anything holy. Therefore, to fully grasp the significance of this divine command, we need to learn who made the Sabbath day holy and when! Jesus said: "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath" (Mark 2:27–28). Notice that Jesus said the Sabbath day was "made." Whatever was made has a Maker. Note also that Jesus did not say that the Sabbath was made only for the Jewish people, but for man—for all mankind, in other words. Then He stated that He—Christ—is "Lord" of the Sabbath. In this statement, He claims to be—not the destroyer—but the Lord of the Sabbath. In His human life, Jesus kept the Sabbath, and many verses in the four Gospels are devoted to His instructions to the disciples in how it should be kept, and in freeing it from the traditions that the Jews had added.

    Most men fail to realize that the Ten Commandments are living, moving, active laws—like the law of gravity. They are automatic. When you break them, they break you! So it is with the final commandment of God’s law. Even though it may be broken without the knowledge of any other human being, the penalty for its violation is absolutely certain! "You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s" (Exodus 20:17). Of all the commandments, the tenth refers most specifically to man’s relation to man. The force of the commandment lies in these words: "your neighbor’s… your neighbor’s… his… his… his… his… your neighbor’s." This is a sevenfold guarding of the interests of another. It is not wrong to lawfully desire a wife, a servant, or an ox or donkey. But where the object admired is legitimately out of reach of the one admiring, admiration merging into desire to possess breaks the commandment. Although this commandment deals most obviously with human and physical relationships, the spiritual requirement of the command is in some ways more rigid than any that has preceded it. This command regulates even the thoughts in the mind and heart of man. Most men look on sin as an outward or physical type of thing. They do not realize that the holy, righteous character that God purposes in us necessitates that even our thoughts be completely purified and made like His. Action follows thought. What you think, you are. If you secretly reject God’s standard and His way, if in your heart you lust after something that you either cannot or will not come to lawfully possess with His blessing, then—sooner or later—this mental rebellion will prompt outward sin. The actions will then proceed to defy God—to break His law—because the thoughts have been doing this all along!
  • ey brother.. if you're into the bible so much, why don't you read Hebrews 8:7-9, 9:8-14, 9:19-28. If you read well with an open mind, you'll understand that the 10 commandments, which was a covenant between God and the people of Israel through Moses, had been replaced by a more powerful covenant that doesn't require a high priest to enter the tabernacle every year to spill the blood of animals as sacrifices for violations against the 10 commandments that the people then committed. Jesus Christ is the new covenant - the one that replaced the "old law". The physical tabernacle where the "high priest" of the old law used to offer gifts and sacrifices to God had been replaced by a heavenly tabernacle (Heb 9:24), "one not made with hands", one that doesn't require Jesus to offer his blood yearly like what the high priests used to do before. So, BROTHER, the answer to your question is "NO".. THE 10 COMMANDMENTS IS NOT FOR ALL, BECAUSE IT WAS JUST MEANT FOR THE PEOPLE OF JUDAH BEFORE JESUS CAME TO EARTH AS A FINAL SACRIFICE FOR THE SALVATION OF ALL. THAT IS THE REASON WHY THE NEW TESTAMENT WAS SEPARATED FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT (where the 10 commandments is included). Have a nice day!
  • Taurean_DragonTaurean_Dragon PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    as far as i know, the ten commandments are also considered "the law of Moses" (but of course it came from God). In Christian times, the ten commandments were summarized in two by the Lord Jesus Christ (Mark 12:28-31), hence, the latter apply in our times and not the ten which were intended for the Israelites.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] PEx Rookie ⭐
    Perhaps that I should add that the summary of the ten commandments do not negate the idea of the original ten. It was just made simpler. Therefore, people would have an easier idea of keeping in mind the commandments. Something like "Andami mo namang pinagagawa, ang hirap." --> "O sige, ganito na lang... (blah,blah)"

    As for the first commandment, (people will flame me for this,) I believe in one God with many names and images, as he has many roles in our lives.

    (I can't believe I contributed nothing in this thread)
  • 3Y3-0p3N3R wrote:
    ey brother.. if you're into the bible so much, why don't you read Hebrews 8:7-9, 9:8-14, 9:19-28. If you read well with an open mind, you'll understand that the 10 commandments, which was a covenant between God and the people of Israel through Moses, had been replaced by a more powerful covenant that doesn't require a high priest to enter the tabernacle every year to spill the blood of animals as sacrifices for violations against the 10 commandments that the people then committed. Jesus Christ is the new covenant - the one that replaced the "old law". The physical tabernacle where the "high priest" of the old law used to offer gifts and sacrifices to God had been replaced by a heavenly tabernacle (Heb 9:24), "one not made with hands", one that doesn't require Jesus to offer his blood yearly like what the high priests used to do before. So, BROTHER, the answer to your question is "NO".. THE 10 COMMANDMENTS IS NOT FOR ALL, BECAUSE IT WAS JUST MEANT FOR THE PEOPLE OF JUDAH BEFORE JESUS CAME TO EARTH AS A FINAL SACRIFICE FOR THE SALVATION OF ALL. THAT IS THE REASON WHY THE NEW TESTAMENT WAS SEPARATED FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT (where the 10 commandments is included). Have a nice day!

    When a young man came to Him asking the way to eternal life, Jesus said: "If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments" (Matthew 19:16–18). The young man asked, "Which?"

    Jesus answered: "‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery…’" and proceeded to list several of the Ten Commandments. Jesus Christ knew the way to salvation! He said that way was obedience to the law of God the Father and surrender to His will.

    Jesus declared: "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father in heaven" (Matthew 7:21).

    Far from abolishing the Ten Commandments, Jesus obeyed them (John 15:10). Christ was the "light" that God sent into the world to show men how to live. After His death and resurrection, Christ sent the Apostles out with this command: "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you" (Matthew 28:19–20).

    The Apostles had been there when Christ told the young man: "Keep the commandments." They had heard Him magnify the commandments of God in what is called the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5–7).

    The Apostles had witnessed the obedience of Christ to the Ten Commandments, and knew that His was the perfect example. Therefore, when Jesus Christ sent them out to every nation with the order to teach them all things He had commanded them, there could be no possible doubt in their minds but that this included the Ten Commandments of God.

    Obedience to the Ten Commandments, then, was the very basis of the teaching of Christ and of His original Apostles. But what about the "new" commandments of Jesus? Did they not alter or abolish the necessity for literally keeping the Ten Commandments that were revealed in the Old Testament?

    Actually, in spite of what many think, there is only one place in all the Bible where Jesus said He was giving a "new" commandment. The other references—by the Apostle John—are to the exact same principles, as we shall see. "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another" (John 13:34–35). Christ had already summarized God’s law into the two great principles: "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind… You shall love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:37, 39). In fact, in the latter part of this summary of God’s law, Jesus quoted directly from the Old Testament (Leviticus 19:18)! What, then, was "new" about Jesus’ command to love our neighbors? The answer is plain. The principle of loving our neighbors was not new, but Jesus’ magnification of that principle in His own perfect life shed a completely new light on the spiritual intent and depth of this commandment. Remember Jesus’ emphasis—"As I have loved you, that ye also love one another." Jesus’ own perfect example of love and service was the greatest and most meaningful magnification of the love of neighbor as commanded by God. In His life, He demonstrated how that love actually functions in day-to-day life.

    The mosaic laws that were instituted by the jewish leaders were the ones abolished, not the laws of God! The sacrifices and rituals are man-made and the religious leaders were hypocrites! Just as you mentioned in Heb 8:7-9, 9:8-14, 9:19-28. It is also pertaining about what will happen after the 7th trumpet in Revelations- The 2nd coming of Christ and the beginning of the 1,000-year reign of Christ and the resurrected saints.

    This loving and giving Jesus Christ also said to the religious leaders of His day, "Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?" (Matthew 23:33). Are these strange words from a man of love? No. Rather, they are manifestation of how perfect love sometimes says and does things for the good of others which at the time they may not appreciate. Jesus loved these Pharisees! It was in love that He thundered these words to wake them up from a life of religious hypocrisy and perversity that was damning their souls. Remember, it was also for these same Pharisees that Jesus died. It was for these men and others like them that Jesus prayed: "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do" (Luke 23:34).

    Many religious people think that Jesus had a sentimental type of "love" in His heart, but that He did not really obey God’s commandments literally. The truth is that Jesus Christ kept and obeyed every one of the Ten Commandments in the letter and in the Spirit—just as His followers today should do. As we have already seen, He declared that He had obeyed the Father’s commandments (John 15:10). To make it perfectly clear, Jesus Christ never had another god before the true God. He never committed idolatry, or blasphemed God’s name. Jesus kept holy the Sabbath that God had made holy and often worshipped in the synagogue on that day as was His custom (Luke 4:16). Jesus honored His parents, and He never killed, committed adultery, stole, lied or coveted. He set us an example, that we should follow in His steps (1 Peter 2:21).

    Jesus who is both from the House of Judah and the tribe of Benjamin makes Him both a Jew and a Benjamite. As a young Jew in Israel, Jesus was reared to keep the Ten Commandments. He observed God’s weekly Sabbath and the annual Holy Days that God had revealed to ancient Israel. It seems easy for Bible scholars to forget these simple facts, gloss over them or pretend they are irrelevant.

    In His "Sermon" on the Mount, Jesus repeatedly magnified the Ten Commandments. He said: "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:19). A careful study shows that far from "doing away" with these commandments, Jesus made them even more binding. Christ revealed that they formed a spiritual law, including, but far greater in scope than, the literal requirements God had given to ancient Israel. He taught that His followers were not only to refrain from murder, but also that they were not even to harbor the spirit of murder—misguided anger, hatred and rage—in their hearts (Matthew 5:21–22).

    He went on to show that not only must a true Christian never commit adultery, but that "whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (v. 28). So even the spirit or attitude of adultery is breaking God’s great spiritual Law, the Ten Commandments.
  • The 10 Commandments were given by God to Moses in 2 stone tablets.

    The first 3 commandments in one tablet concerns God while the other tablet with the 4th until 10th commanments concerns for the people..

    From here, Jesus summarized it into two: Love God with all your heart, soul, strength (2) And love your neighbor as you love yourself.. No other greater commandments than these.. Therefore it's applicable to all people regardless of Creed and nationality.. ALL.
  • The LORD Says:

    "I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:18-19)

    YES IT IS FOR EVERYONE!
  • rickymrickym PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    for those who said it is for everyone, could you address the issues on the first post? you find no problem that it goes against the u.s. constitution and preaches religious intolerance?
  • ^Yes it is for everyone but not imposed... take it or leave it.
  • rickym wrote:
    for those who said it is for everyone, could you address the issues on the first post? you find no problem that it goes against the u.s. constitution and preaches religious intolerance?

    God's laws are higher than any man-made laws. If the man-made laws are unjust or break God's laws, we have a moral obligation to break it! Haven't you heard the civil rights movements that changed America with Martin Luther King, Cesar Chavez, etc.? Haven't you read about the thousands of Christians faithful who were fed to the lions and burnt alive? These people died in passive defiance of those who break God's commandments. But that's about the extent of their suffering- physical death. The reward of the faithful is too fantastic to even imagine! But what about the consequences of breaking the commandments? Spiritual laws are as valid as physical laws of the universe (which God created) and to break them is to invite disaster.

    Speaking of the coming end-time Great Tribulation, God says: "If you do not obey Me, and do not observe all these commandments, and if you despise My statutes, or if your soul abhors My judgments, so that you do not perform all My commandments, but break My covenant, I also will do this to you. I will even appoint terror over you, wasting disease and fever which shall consume the eyes and cause sorrow of heart. And you shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. I will set My face against you, and you shall be defeated by your enemies. Those who hate you shall reign over you, and you shall flee when no one pursues you" (Leviticus 26:14–17). God Almighty says He will bring us down very low. If we continue transgressing His commandments, He will discipline us in more ways than we can begin to imagine.
  • rickymrickym PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    to quote from the first part

    "There are concerns about at least four of the commandments in a multi-faith culture which is dedicated to religious freedom, religious tolerance, personal responsibility and an end to sexism and racism:"

    i'll rephrase my question taking off the legal part.
    are you saying you don't believe in:
    religious freedom, religious tolerance, personal responsibility
    an end to sexism and racism
    so that you will please your god?

    or do you think that that article in that website is flawed and the christian god is actually tolerant of other religions?
  • rickym wrote:
    i'll rephrase my question taking off the legal part.
    are you saying you don't believe in:
    religious freedom, religious tolerance, personal responsibility
    an end to sexism and racism
    so that you will please your god?

    Rickym take a look at the world around you. Who are the real countries who do not believe in religious freedom and tolerance?

    Open Doors
    http://www.opendoorsusa.org/Display.asp?Page=Map

    News
    http://www.christianitytoday.com/ctmag/features/issues/persecution.html
  • rickymrickym PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    so is the article flawed?
  • rickym wrote:
    to quote from the first part

    "There are concerns about at least four of the commandments in a multi-faith culture which is dedicated to religious freedom, religious tolerance, personal responsibility and an end to sexism and racism:"

    i'll rephrase my question taking off the legal part.
    are you saying you don't believe in:
    religious freedom, religious tolerance, personal responsibility
    an end to sexism and racism
    so that you will please your god?

    or do you think that that article in that website is flawed and the christian god is actually tolerant of other religions?

    Thou shall not have any gods before Me! Thundered the first commandment. You obviously think Christianity is just one of the many religions and that all religions are valid? How can they all be true when there are blatant differences among them and even within them? There is only one truth and the sooner you find it, the sooner you will know who God is if not, He will let you know! I shake in fear on what the God of Abraham, the God of Moses, the God of Isaac, The God of David and Solomon, can do. God is a God of love and even at punishment, He is caring for us. Would you give alcohol to an alcoholic begging for it? Would you give drugs to a drug addict shaking and convulsing and begging in desperation for it? Nobody can even imagine the wisdom and knowledge of a God that created everything and a God that even knows the number of hair in your head! Even Job, the most righteous man that lived in his time, is nothing but a filthy rug to God's eyes. Nobody in this thread can tell you what to do. That is a personal relationship between you and the Creator. Doesn't matter whether you believe or not!

    You see, if people are "clever" enough, they can apply the term "Christian" to almost anything. They can wrap an idea or philosophy in nice, religious-sounding phrases and get others to believe it. But there is even more to it than that. For behind misguided men and women, there is a powerful spirit being called Satan the Devil. Formerly an extremely wise and beautiful cherub or angel (Ezekiel 28:12–15), he is now fiendishly clever and still very attractive and compelling in his appeal to unsuspecting individuals (cf. 2 Corinthians 11:14). God calls Satan the "prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" (Ephesians 2:2). And Satan is further described in Revelation 12:9 as the "great dragon… that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world."

    Think of it! If the whole world would start living by the Ten Commandments—as magnified by Jesus Christ—we would have no crime, no murder, no adultery, no broken homes, no displaced children and no wars! The deep sense of stability, peace and security that would then fill the world would have a definite healing effect in every way. The incidence of depression and mental disease would greatly diminish. Even physical sickness and suffering would decline because mental attitudes affect our physical health.
  • knightrader: like i said, IF you would read with an open mind the passage I quoted you would understand, but since you didn't, I expect no enlightenment. When someone asks if the Ten Commandments is for all, to be technically correct in answering it, you must first know what the "Ten Commandments" is to him. Otherwise, when you present your answer which is obviously focused on "the idea" or "the message" of the Ten Commandments, you lead others to further confusion. You are correct in your process of citing passages as you move from one point to another, but again, technically missing the most critical point. You intimidated the simple query by bombarding the thread with side-track passages, creating an illusion that you are unmistakeably accurate. If the 10 commandments is still applicable in our present time, then we should all be sacrificing animals in a physical tabernacle yearly through a high priest, because according to law, that is how our sins may be forgiven (according to the old law). If you take one "old" practice and disregard the other "old" practices that go with it, then you are fooling yourself by selecting only what you want to follow.
  • 3Y3-0p3N3R wrote:
    knightrader: like i said, IF you would read with an open mind the passage I quoted you would understand, but since you didn't, I expect no enlightenment. When someone asks if the Ten Commandments is for all, to be technically correct in answering it, you must first know what the "Ten Commandments" is to him. Otherwise, when you present your answer which is obviously focused on "the idea" or "the message" of the Ten Commandments, you lead others to further confusion. You are correct in your process of citing passages as you move from one point to another, but again, technically missing the most critical point. You intimidated the simple query by bombarding the thread with side-track passages, creating an illusion that you are unmistakeably accurate. If the 10 commandments is still applicable in our present time, then we should all be sacrificing animals in a physical tabernacle yearly through a high priest, because according to law, that is how our sins may be forgiven (according to the old law). If you take one "old" practice and disregard the other "old" practices that go with it, then you are fooling yourself by selecting only what you want to follow.

    Please read my first response to your post as you seem to be confused between God's laws and man-made mosaic laws. The first verse you gave pertains to the 2nd coming of Christ after the 7th trump. Try to read every book and verses that pertain to a certain sunject instead of finding little verses that you think justify your breaking the Laws and justify your sins. The Ten Commandments are only words to those people who don't know God through His words and instructions- the bible. That is the only guide we have of Him, the Creator and the Lawgiver until Jesus Christ returns. The people who wish to continue living their ways and yet feel that they are somehow free from sin even if they break God's laws are fooling themselves. They will NEVER know the fruits of God's promises available by following His commandments. They are missing out on truly enjoying life free from vanity, selfishness and greed. The momentary pleasures of the flesh or fraudulent profiteering are just that- fleeting. What God offers us is so fantastic! Read the new testament gospels and see how Jesus was after He came back from resurrection. That same qualities will be given to the faithful on His return. It is a promise only to those who will persevere and live a life away from this satan-ruled world.

    Mankind must return to the God of the Bible, the God of creation, the God who rules this universe! Summarizing His way to the fulfillment of man’s desire for a happy, abundant and purposeful life, God inspired these words at the end of the book of Ecclesiastes: "The end of the matter, all having been heard: fear God, and keep His commandments; for this is the whole man" (Ecclesiastes 12:13, Moffatt). Mankind is frustrated and incomplete without this living, vital contact with God—walking His way, keeping His commandments. Obedience to God’s commandments would bring peace and fulfillment and joy to all the nations and peoples of this earth. It is the real answer to all of our problems, individually and collectively. It is the way of life Jesus Christ is going to teach when He returns to rule this world (Micah 4:2).
  • MilliardoMilliardo PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    The natural physical mind cries out for something to help in the worship of God. Physical human beings want some physical object—some "aid" to worship—to "remind" them of the invisible God. Yet that is exactly what is forbidden in this commandment!

    Is this really what is forbidden of it in the Second, or the worship of graven images, which would then tie the Second Commandment to the First. See, if this is God's point, then why did He instruct the Ark of the Covenant to be decorated with two cherubim, or the Temple to have a glass sea as well as two huge seraphim figures guarding the entrance? The Ark itself was an aid for worship; hidden behind the Holy of Holies, it was seen as God's seat, as it is. If what you say is true, then God violated His own Commandment!
  • Milliardo wrote:
    Is this really what is forbidden of it in the Second, or the worship of graven images, which would then tie the Second Commandment to the First. See, if this is God's point, then why did He instruct the Ark of the Covenant to be decorated with two cherubim, or the Temple to have a glass sea as well as two huge seraphim figures guarding the entrance? The Ark itself was an aid for worship; hidden behind the Holy of Holies, it was seen as God's seat, as it is. If what you say is true, then God violated His own Commandment!

    Many times after reiterating the Ten Commandments, God again warned Israel against any form of idolatry. "You shall not make idols for yourselves; neither a carved image nor a sacred pillar shall you rear up for yourselves; nor shall you set up an engraved stone in your land, to bow down to it; for I am the Lord your God" (Leviticus 26:1). God was continually against every form of idol or image used in worship. However, lest some misunderstand, let us pause at this point to note that God does not condemn art or sculpture, but rather the setting up of any picture or image or representation "to bow down to it." In the original command in Exodus 20:4–6, God is not condemning every picture and image, but, as the command continues, "you shall not bow down to them nor serve them." So it is the use of art or sculpture as a form of worship or "aid" to worship that God condemns! The real basis of all idolatry is that self-willed, rebellious mankind refuses to surrender himself to worship the true God in the way that He commands! Not really knowing the true God, then, nor having His Spirit, human beings think they need some "aid" or "representation" to help them worship their humanly devised concept of God. Notice that this second commandment is not speaking of the worship of an idol, which is forbidden in the first commandment. This second commandment forbids the use of physical "aids" or "helps" in worshiping the invisible God.
  • MilliardoMilliardo PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    Many times after reiterating the Ten Commandments, God again warned Israel against any form of idolatry. "You shall not make idols for yourselves; neither a carved image nor a sacred pillar shall you rear up for yourselves; nor shall you set up an engraved stone in your land, to bow down to it; for I am the Lord your God" (Leviticus 26:1).

    Again, the point of God here is to not create false gods, which is in direct relation to the First Commandment. God here is warning the Israelites that any image made should not be worshipped; it was not against the making of images per se.
    However, lest some misunderstand, let us pause at this point to note that God does not condemn art or sculpture, but rather the setting up of any picture or image or representation "to bow down to it." In the original command in Exodus 20:4–6, God is not condemning every picture and image, but, as the command continues, "you shall not bow down to them nor serve them."

    You seem to lose me: you say first that God does not approve of the making opf images, yet now vacktrack and say He does not approve the use of images in worship; so which is it exactly?
    Not really knowing the true God, then, nor having His Spirit, human beings think they need some "aid" or "representation" to help them worship their humanly devised concept of God. Notice that this second commandment is not speaking of the worship of an idol, which is forbidden in the first commandment. This second commandment forbids the use of physical "aids" or "helps" in worshiping the invisible God.

    Ah, no. Please see that it is clear again that God does not forbid the use or aid in worshipping Him, or else the Ark of the Covenant itself would have been already a contradiction of His own Commandment. God's point is not to make graven images to be used for false worship of other gods; this is tied up again with the First Commandment. The First Commandment only talks about worshipping other gods; it does not talk about the making of graven images of those false gods. The Second Commandment deals with that, and reiterates what the First Commandment says. In no way did God say not to make an aid or representation which will help in worshipping Him. God forbade the worship of false gods, and the making of images which will represent them; He did not explicitly forbid the use of images in worshipping Him. Note that in every instance of Him getting angry for the use of images, it is tied up with false gods.
  • Milliardo wrote:
    Again, the point of God here is to not create false gods, which is in direct relation to the First Commandment. God here is warning the Israelites that any image made should not be worshipped; it was not against the making of images per se.



    You seem to lose me: you say first that God does not approve of the making opf images, yet now vacktrack and say He does not approve the use of images in worship; so which is it exactly?



    Ah, no. Please see that it is clear again that God does not forbid the use or aid in worshipping Him, or else the Ark of the Covenant itself would have been already a contradiction of His own Commandment. God's point is not to make graven images to be used for false worship of other gods; this is tied up again with the First Commandment. The First Commandment only talks about worshipping other gods; it does not talk about the making of graven images of those false gods. The Second Commandment deals with that, and reiterates what the First Commandment says. In no way did God say not to make an aid or representation which will help in worshipping Him. God forbade the worship of false gods, and the making of images which will represent them; He did not explicitly forbid the use of images in worshipping Him. Note that in every instance of Him getting angry for the use of images, it is tied up with false gods.

    You seem to think the ark of the covenant is something to be worshipped. The ark is just a kind of housing to hold something as in the ark of Noah or the ark of baby Moses. I am sure you are not talking about worshipping the ark but the justification of worshipping pictures, images and statues - this is clearly breaking the second commandment!!!

    "You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord [Eternal] your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments" (Exodus 20:4–6).


    Contrary to the theological arguments and convoluted reasonings of so many Bible commentaries, Jesus was not talking about the "ceremonial" or "ritual" laws of Moses. He was talking about His true followers obeying the great spiritual law of God, the Ten Commandments. This was the law—and the only law—that God spoke with His own voice from the top of Mount Sinai. "These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me" (Deuteronomy 5:22).
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