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what do you think of polyamory?

rickymrickym Member PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
http://www.libchrist.com/poly/responon.html


Liberated Christians
PO Box 32835, Phoenix Az 85064-2835
Promoting Intimacy and Other-Centered Sexuality

COPYRIGHTED 1997 ALL RIGHTS RESERVED - MAY BE REPRINTED OR QUOTED FROM ONLY IF CREDIT IS GIVEN LIBERATED CHRISTIANS, MAILING ADDRESS IS SHOWN AND WE ARE SENT A COPY OF PUBLICATION.

Responsible Non-Monogamy

Introduction
Many couples enjoy seeing their mates enjoying sexual pleasure with someone else, without jealousy or fear of loss. Many happily married committed couples are opening themselves up to finding other couples to be close friends and also open to exploring sexual sharing to add variety to their already fulfilled sex lives. Just like they can love more than just one child, many couples find they can sincerely love other adults as people and spirits without loving their life partner any less. Many couples that don't need outside relationships to be fulfilled, find expanding their sexual options enhance their already wonderful relationship with their mates.


If you are like most people who want to explore responsible open relationships, you feel very isolated in a culture that assumes that monogamy is the only legitimate option for intimate relationships. For years open people have learned to stay safely in the closet. Unfortunately, closets are notoriously poor places to meet people. Gays, lesbians, bisexuals, etc. have managed to create viable subcultures, but those of us who want sincere long term open relationships are often adrift in the hostile mainstream of indoctrinated society.


The Swinging Lifestyle Myth
There are myths galore about swinging. Are they without morals, oversexed, guilt-ridden and shameful slugs of the sexual underground? Is it true that women only swing because their husbands forced them? Swingers are very ordinary people who admit to themselves they want their sex lives to involve more than what a purely monogamous relationship can deliver. They choose the freedom to act to broaden the range of their activities without endangering their relationships or their families.


The swinging lifestyle attracts people from all walks of life and professions. Don't be surprised to learn that the innocent-looking wife next door likes to drag two or three men onto a bed at a time and be smothered with their attentions without any guilt.


Committed Relationships
Swingers are not cheating on their spouses, rather they do it together or with each other's knowledge and consent. Swinging allows all humans to fulfill their need to be enjoyed, admired and sexually attracted to people of the opposite sex in addition to their own partner. Swinging can allow you to enjoy a different sexual rhythm with someone you click with as a friend as well as sex partner. The loss of sexual anxieties and heightened self confidence account for much of swingers' enthusiasm.


Swinging is not the bar scene with guys trying to hit on women. Women tend to be just as interested in what is between a man's head as between his legs. It is committed couples allowing themselves to share special friendships and intimacy with other couples they enjoy. It's like an extended family.


Sensitivity and Consideration
Swingers love sex but they also love people and treasure the close friendships that develop. Couples are looking for sensitivity and understanding not just sex objects. Those who do not share this considerate attitude will not be invited a second time by most swing groups.


The byword is consideration; ladies going to their first swing party won't be abused. The men are in average condition; most will never be Chippendale material. The women are also average as in the general population. The men are not mythical studs; the ladies are not ******.


Swinging involves social interaction, including the possibility of sexual interaction if mutually desired, so those who wish to explore the lifestyle need not fear ostracism or rape. All a couple needs to cope at the first swing party is a concern for the feelings of each other and common sense. If all you want to do is talk with others about the lifestyle, your find conversation easy. You won't be laughed at if you choose not to undress; remember, it is very likely that everyone at the party exercised great caution before deciding swinging was something they wanted to do.


You Will Not Like Everyone
Some people you may meet are not the ideal swingers. But if you take the time to relate to people, you will find most couples are very considerate, especially if they know you are still exploring the lifestyle. As in all of life, some people you will connect with and have much in common, and with others you will not. You need to confidently say thank you for asking but I'd really rather not if someone approaches you that you don't want to relate with.


Jealousy & Women's Sex Drive
Women are usually less prone to jealousy than men. Women more often go through feelings of inadequacy. Men more often have to work through feelings of jealousy. Women overcome inadequacy when they find that other men find them attractive and want to share with them.


Women don't tend to be jealous but they are initially more afraid, often coming to their first experience because their husband wants to go. Women don't know if the men will have diseases or if they are going to jump on them. Women only want special guys because that's how they have been taught all their lives. They are not sexually oriented the same way men are. With men its sex and love and with women it's love and then sex. With experience and just talking with others the first few times, women learn that there are nice people who are swingers, that they have families, and learn sexuality is acceptable rather than a dirty private thing. Men have a high sex drive; that seems to be the nature of life. But women do not have by nature a high sex drive until they are within a relationship with someone they enjoy. Although slower to enter the lifestyle, women tend to become the most enthusiastic once they relax and start relating to others. A woman's sexuality is often stronger than man's, once she is willing to trust and relax.


The Christian and Swinging
The Bible has been misquoted and mistranslated to falsely suppress sexuality. There is nothing inconsistent with biblical Christianity and open responsible relationships. In fact, such sincere relationships may be much more in line with Christ's teachings. We have prepared extensive papers on Biblical Sexuality that discuss in great depth all the scriptural issues. Clearly, responsible non-monogamy should not be a problem for Christians that understand the original texts as understood in the culture in which the Bible was written.


Other Brief Ideas
"Swingers" are known to have a lower than normal divorce rate. One study showed divorce rate among swingers was only 5% compared to the normal rate of 40% for traditional marriages. Swinging is for people who like people. There is more honestly of feelings between couples and can make a marriage more exciting with openness and carefully selected sexuality with other friends.


The initial reluctance of women can be traced to how most women (and many men) were brought up to think about sex. We have been told that sex and love have to go together. No one wants to be exploited, but most humans relish the idea of pleasure with sincere caring and love for another as a person, but not as a permanent possession.


Sex can offer so much more if we break the chains of our indoctrination and understand that sex -accompanied with caring - is beautiful in itself. Studies have also shown a much lower incidence of sexual diseases among sexually responsible and informed people. AIDS is really not an issue since heterosexual men are acting as a block to its spread. Women should use condoms until they are sure the male is not bisexual or a drug user. Your risk of getting killed in an auto accident on your way to the swing club is probably 10,000 times higher than getting AIDS. While women do have to be more careful, it is statistically almost impossible for a male to get AIDS from a female by heterosexual sex. We have prepared a very extensive report on the real facts and risks of AIDS without the false scare tactics.


Historically Few Cultures Monogamous
Highlights from Omni Magazine 9/93: In the West, we assume the "natural condition" is monogamy, with significant investment in offspring by the husband/father. But a worldwide sample of over 1,500 human cultures strongly argues that the vast majority either encourage or at least tolerate polygyny - several women married to a single man. In most cultures, women would be furious if a law were passed that decreed they could not become the second, third, or sixth wife of a wealthy, high-status male when the alternative was a monogamous union with a poor, low-status male. High-status males almost always have numerous wives and lowest status the fewest. Clearly, culture makes a huge difference.


Time Magazine August 15, 1994 features a very extensive article "Infidelity - It may be in our genes" which confirms the unnaturalness of trying to be monogamous.

More On The Monogamy Myth
In previous reports we've discussed how unnatural and unusual monogamy has been in human history. Here is some more interesting information. Nearly 1,000 of the 1,154 past or present human societies ever studied have been non-monogamous (either polygyny or polyandry). For a more thorough discussion see "History of Marriage systems", by G.R. Quale, or some of the many other scientific, historic references available.

Anglican Bishop Says "Adultery is built in to the genes"
Source: Adam Magazine 9/95
LONDON- An Anglican bishop has come out and stated that adultery is built in to the genes, and that humans were not born to be sexually faithful. "God knew when he made us that he has given us a built-in sex drive to go and sow our seeds...I think it would be wrong for the church to condemn people who have followed their instincts," said Bishop of Edinburgh Richard Holloway in a speech on sex and Christianity. More conservative bishops leapt to condemn Holloway, who has also drawn heat for suggesting that legalizing drugs and prostitution could curb the spread of AIDS. (Dave comments: in biblical times this built in sex drive for sexual variety was recognized for men who could have as many wives and concubines as they could afford and this was never spoken against. Today women simply the have the same freedom of sexual expression and variety as men have always had).


Sexual Pleasure Sharing Much More Than Intercourse
Often we fear our sexuality based on society pressures, religion or past unpleasant experiences. Therefore, we are often unable to experience the beauty of sexual pleasure sharing. When we think of sex, we usually only think of intercourse.


Whole body sexuality can be even more loving and intimate with no concern about disease. For women, intercourse is often not the best way for maximum pleasure, but many men do not know how to give a woman maximum pleasure. Tantra sex techniques can also be very intimate and wonderful. Having our naked bodies caressed all over and warmly held with love and affection is as vital to our emotions as eating and drinking is to our health.


Maximum sexual pleasuring techniques are a learned skill. Only the very basics come naturally which are not always the most enjoyable. But when we have been taught that sex is so dirty that we must save it for marriage, and then only have one partner, how do we learn maximum pleasure sharing? Sexual pleasure sharing is learned just as walking and talking is learned, by experience and practice.


We do not "give ourselves away" by sharing sexually. When we share, we each gain more, the knowledge we share is not reduced but expanded through reaction and sharing with others. Similarly in sexual sharing we don't save it, we share it and grow and find more and more meaningful experiences. If at some point an exclusive relationship is desired, such as in marriage, sexual pleasure in that relationship will be enhanced by previous experimentation and experiences with a selective but wider range of trusted intimate friends.


Women's More Equal Sex is Better Sex
Loving open Americans sex lives are better than ever. There's been a phenomenal change in women's sexuality and, therefore, their partners. Women are saying "I'm an equal partner in bed. I expect pleasure too." Many men like the "new" more aggressive woman, and being on the receiving end at times and are learning how to please a woman and enjoy foreplay and afterplay. Studies all show that those who can communicate about sex are the ones with the best sex lives. We need to practice more oral sex - opening our mouths and discussing what we enjoy the most or what we want to try.


Changing Views Of Sexuality - Leads To A Better Society
It seems obvious with all its sexual repression the United States is not a sexually healthy society. Sexuality is also a very important issue in determining the happiness of people in other areas. Sexual repression leads to abuse, frustration and psychological damage. In a society full of tease and titillation, but little meaningful sexuality (sex is so dirty have to save it for marriage and then suppose to be experts with no experience), all sort of bad things happen out of sexual frustration.


Our society needs to learn how to discuss sexuality openly if we are going to start healing our unhealthy sexuality and sexual abuse. This is especially important to women, many of who are fed up with all the men whose only thought of sexually is thrusting genital sex, while most women seek more intimacy and variety of many types of sexual stimulation. In the past (especially in biblical times) when women were more just there to serve men, this was less of a problem.


Today, women are demanding their own sexual fulfillment and experiencing a great deal of frustration from men having no idea how to maximize the sexual pleasure of a woman. Responsible Non-monogamy allows men to be trained by different women in different sexual techniques and for women to enjoy different techniques from different men. Together, we can all learn and grow in our knowledge of giving and receiving sexual pleasure as part of loving caring, other pleasure centered relationships.


The number of sex-positive people is rapidly growing in the United States. More and more people are becoming willing to be open and admit their needs, desires, and frustrations. Many sex-positive groups are leading workshops and are open to leaning and experimentation. Often it's women that have become the prime activists in this area since they are demanding their own sexual fulfillment.


The biggest blocks to a more healthy sexual society is the traditional religious beliefs based on mistranslated and misunderstood biblical texts that have no relevance to today's loving responsible non-monogamous relationships. What is particularly ironic is the ignorance of many Christians about the biblical culture, where adultery was only wrong for a married woman and men could have as many wives and concubines (breeders) as they wished. In many ways biblical sexuality was far more positive but was male dominated. Wives and children were simply the property of their husbands/fathers. Today's responsible non-monogamous relationships can be a much better example of Christ's love than the false teachings of traditional Christianity.


The Christian Moral View
The religious view of a society has a profound impact on the emotional health of its people and on the quality of their interpersonal relationships.


A major distinction between Eastern and Western religious views is in regard to sexuality. From the East we have the wonderful integration of sexuality and spirit as seen in Tantra and other teachings that result in much more sexual fulfillment than in Western culture. In the West, God is viewed as omnipotent, intolerant, who rules over all (especially women) with the ideal of woman being a virgin insisting on strict moral obedience (often the results of mistranslated scriptures) where sex is somehow dirty and the opposite of spirituality. This Western view is a recipe for endless hostility and conflict between the sexes. The irony is for those that look more seriously at scripture to understand what it really was saying in the culture it was written, we understand the beliefs are based on false tradition rather than an accurate reflection of scripture.


This sex-negative Christian moral view, although in a long slow decline, is going to be with us for a long time in the West and continues to influence our laws, our perceptions of one another, and the character or our personal lives. Its result is conflict, estrangement, and hostility between the sexes. In earlier times women were not able to be empowered due to their economic dependence on men and their encumbrance with the care of children. But today, with effective birth control and the growing economic independence of women, women are taking the lead in demanding more sexually empowering honest discussion and exposure of the false teachings of Western culture.


Feminism's Fight For A Sex-Positive Society
Feminism today is the fight to gain women's equality in all aspects of life including the right to sexual equality and pleasure by having the right to make their own decisions over their sexuality. They fight thousands of years of a male dominated culture. "Since women have been used as sexual icons for so many years without being the primary receivers of sexual pleasure, gaining control of women's sexuality and educating women about their sexual pleasure potential is a crucial feminist issue," says Devra Schwartz, owner of Passionate Living, which use to be a magazine promoting sex-positive attitudes and non-monogamy as a possible better choice for women.


GOOD GROUPS AND PUBLICATIONS

Swinging
We have a very good relationship with The Lifestyles Organization, have presented at Lifestyle conventions, and get many referrals from them, especially regarding Christian issues. We also present at many other swing conventions. We totally support swinging, even though it is not our primary interest. In addition to our extensive swinging section of our web site, and the many links we have, we primarily refer you to The Lifestyles Organization at http://www.Playcouples.com.

NASCA - North American Swing Club Assn is part of The Lifestyles Organization. They will send any COUPLE on request their information by calling them at 714-821-9953. They have a national directory of clubs for $10 and Publish Emerge Playcouple Newsletter for members and sponsor annual Lifestyles Convention with over 3000 attendees from all over the world celebrating erotic life with great workshops, discussions and erotic activities to enhance ones love life. Liberated Christians did a presentation at the 1994 and 1995 Lifestyles Convention, "Swinging-Not a Biblical Conflict" that received a very positive response. Audio or video tape available of both by calling NASCA.

Polyamory
In addition to our workshops, and vast materials on web site, we highly recommend publications of Loving More, especially:

BRAND NEW! The New Love Without Limits by Dr. Deborah Anapol. This book is "must have" reading for anyone interested in a polyamous lifestyle. Deborah and Loving More teamed up to reprint her original classic, now with updated
chapters, resources, and new material combined with the best of the original book. Perhaps the most widely read book on polyamory ever and certainly one of the best.

Loving More-The Polyfidelity Primer by Ryam Nearing Ryam's classic "how to" on group marriage and poly relationships in general. Focused primarily on polyfidelity with many good tips, worksheets, and advice on how to start a
local group. Very good definitions of different styles of poly relationships.

Both books as well as Loving More Magazine and much more can be found at http://www.lovemore.com

The Erotic Silence of the American Wife by Dalma Heyn Signet Books, 1992. This national bestseller is now available in paperback about monogamy as a patriarchal, misogynist institution more women are rejecting. More and more women are being empowered to not sell their sexuality out but that women's pleasure is valid and important. Many women are finding that polyfidelity relationships enhances their lives by allowing more pleasure, intimacy and companionship once they overcome the conditioning and guilt of a male dominated culture that prevent them from openly seeking this enhancement.


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Comments

  • crazy legscrazy legs Member PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    I prefer it over mass murder.
  • IscharamoochieIscharamoochie Moderator PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    sabi nga... make love, not war
  • wadesworldwadesworld all messed up PExer
    parang pag sinama pa yan sa pansexuality: kahit alin, kahit ilan! ang saya! hehehe
  • eastereaster Pinoy PExer
    To the Church in Pergamum

    "To the angel of the church in Pergamum write:
    These are the words of him who has the sharp, double-edged sword. I know where you live—where Satan has his throne. Yet you remain true to my name. You did not renounce your faith in me, even in the days of Antipas, my faithful witness, who was put to death in your city—where Satan lives. Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: You have people there who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin by eating food sacrificed to idols and by committing sexual immorality. Likewise you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans. Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give him a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to him who receives it.



    To the Church in Thyatira

    "To the angel of the church in Thyatira write:
    These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like blazing fire and whose feet are like burnished bronze. I know your deeds, your love and faith, your service and perseverance, and that you are now doing more than you did at first. Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds. Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan's so-called deep secrets (I will not impose any other burden on you): Only hold on to what you have until I come. To him who overcomes and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations—
    'He will rule them with an iron scepter;
    he will dash them to pieces like pottery'— just as I have received authority from my Father. I will also give him the morning star. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%202:12-29%20;&version=31;
  • IscharamoochieIscharamoochie Moderator PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    but what is sexual immorality?
  • rickymrickym Member PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    in buddhism there is what you call "sexual misconduct"

    http://www.enabling.org/ia/vipassana/Archive/T/Trembath/buddhismAndHomosexualityTrembath.html

    From my readings of the Buddhist texts, and from the answers of the Buddhist monks I have questioned on this issue, I have concluded that, for lay Buddhists, any sexual act would not be breaking the third precept
    where there is mutual consent,
    where there is no harm done to anyone,
    where the breaking of a commitment to another person is not involved,
    and where our intention is to express affection with respect, and give pleasure to each other.
    This would apply irrespective of the gender or sexual orientation of the parties involved. The same principles would be used to evaluate all relationships and sexual behaviour, whether heterosexual or homosexual.



    there are two issues in polyamory
    several serious loves without sex and
    several serious loves with sex

    for those who don't mind several serious loves without sex, wouldn't you consider this unconditional love?
  • crazy legscrazy legs Member PEx Influencer ⭐⭐⭐
    but what is sexual immorality?
    It is when you do something immoral sexually.
  • eastereaster Pinoy PExer
    but what is sexual immorality?

    "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matthew 5:28)

    "Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh." But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit." (1 Corinthians 6:15-17)

    "Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband....Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control...Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion." (1 Corinthians 7:1-2,5,8-9)

    "I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God." (1 Timothy 2:9-10)

    Homosexuality:

    "In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." (Romans 1:27)
  • rickymrickym Member PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    easter wrote:
    "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matthew 5:28)

    that is of course if he is committed. isn't adultery only committed when you are married or committed to someone?
    easter wrote:
    "Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband....Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control...Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion." (1 Corinthians 7:1-2,5,8-9)

    so being single is the preferred choice then. it says here that since there is so much immorality then get married. sex with someone else when you are committed to someone is immoral because there is deceit. not only that, but a wife might get abondened by the philandering husband with no financial and emotional support. but is sex for pleasure considered immoral when there is no third party involved and when both parties no that it is only due to pleasure.
    easter wrote:
    "I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God." (1 Timothy 2:9-10)
    this does not say anything about sexy clothes. it seems to say, do not be vain or narcistic.
  • rickymrickym Member PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    concerning sexual immorality. the way i see it it is when you let your sexuality control you instead of you controlling your sexuality. in short do not get attached to sexuality. but if you can enjoy it without being its slave do so. this would be consistent with buddhism that attachment is the cause of suffering.

    i'm not sure about the times when the bible and the other spiritual scriptures of other religions were made. is it possible that sexual promiscuity was a nono then because then people were so attached to sex then. nowadays, its possible to be sexually active and yet unnattached to sex when working.

    for those who get attached to their partners after one bout of sex, then i guess celibacy is the way to go.
  • eastereaster Pinoy PExer
    rickym wrote:
    that is of course if he is committed. isn't adultery only committed when you are married or committed to someone?

    No! It says "ANYONE".

    "anyone who looks at a woman lustfully"
    rickym wrote:
    ...but is sex for pleasure considered immoral when there is no third party involved and when both parties no that it is only due to pleasure.


    Again a lustful look is already considered immoral. Then so much more if it is consumated.

    rickym wrote:
    this does not say anything about sexy clothes. it seems to say, do not be vain or narcistic.

    It talks about providing a temptation to someone. It may also be narcissistic and being selfish since you just want to satisfy your desire.
  • eastereaster Pinoy PExer
    However rickym I am not a hypocrite.

    In the end who can do this? We all lust and we all fall to temptation. Just like any sin, sexual immorality is unacceptable in the eyes of God.

    What should we do? http://www.christiananswers.net/q-comfort/heaven-goodenough.html
  • rickymrickym Member PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    what happens if you look lustfully at your wife is it a sin? you said anyone?

    http://www.natcath.com/NCR_Online/archives2/1998d/101698/1098pope.htm

    John Paul commenting on Matthew 5:37-38: The text speaks of looking lustfully after women, any woman, including therefore one’s wife. He does not say husbands should not desire their wives. He says that if they reduce their wives to mere objects of sexual desire and forget the other dimensions of interpersonal dialogue and spiritual exchange, they will fall into concupiscence (NCR, Oct. 24).

    this website gives the exception to wives or does it? if you look lustfully at your wife and it can be done if you do not "reduce their wives to mere objects of sexual desire and forget the other dimensions of interpersonal dialogue and spiritual exchange".

    why can't this be done also to your lover? do you agree with the pope here? this was done in 1980, not too long ago.

    second question is. if the people here really think it is a sin, what are you doing about it? are you actually trying not to ***** or something?
  • freddafredda Member PExer
    What’s the issue about immorality?

    I really don’t see why polyamory and swinging could ever be a problem for CONSENTING adults? :eek:

    Ofcourse, From the eyes of the Judeo-Christian God, polyamory AND swinging is immoral. (Unfortunately, Xianity seems to be the standard in the Phils. So some or most Xians easily judge and condemn people who don’t have the same beliefs)

    From the legal standpoint, swingin and polyamory is immoral. (concubinage, adultery) but if both parties aren’t planning to sue, why the fuss?

    I always fantasized about trusting and loving my partner so much that his having another love wont make me feel less loved… and I know I wont be the perfect partner, and people have diff. needs that perhaps not one person can fulfill..i understand that…. but I think I’d still be jealous…and insecure! :confused:

    Anyway… I still go for the Buddhist precepts about sexuality, which, as posted by rickym, sex acts aren't “wrong” “where there is mutual consent,
    where there is no harm done to anyone,
    where the breaking of a commitment to another person is not involved,
    and where our intention is to express affection with respect, and give pleasure to each other.”

    That said, I don’t think Phil. Society would ever sanction polyamory, cuz the ‘family is considered sacred, and if a partner suddenly feels jealous, he can actually run amuk and commit “crimes of passion” and get away with it! Perhaps polyamory would work only in matriarchal societies (where “free love” abounds) and only in certain European countries with “liberal” cultures (though how they work that out is a puzzle to me). In most monogamous cultures, there’d simply be too much hassle esp. for the kids. *okay*
  • blehbleh blahbitty blah PExer
    gotta respect people who can pull that one off. imagine the complexities of an intimate relationship with one person, compound it further with more people. yehey. partey.
  • i wonder if the 'chinese basket trick' is immoral.
  • joelbjoelb techiegamer PExer
    Religion aside, how does one deal with the lingering feeling that your spouse is enjoying sex more with another partner than with you? What if sometime in the future that heightened sexual enjoyment with someone else causes him or her to avoid sex with you, or to leave you altogether?
  • eastereaster Pinoy PExer
    rickym wrote:
    what happens if you look lustfully at your wife is it a sin? you said anyone?

    http://www.natcath.com/NCR_Online/archives2/1998d/101698/1098pope.htm

    John Paul commenting on Matthew 5:37-38: The text speaks of looking lustfully after women, any woman, including therefore one’s wife. He does not say husbands should not desire their wives. He says that if they reduce their wives to mere objects of sexual desire and forget the other dimensions of interpersonal dialogue and spiritual exchange, they will fall into concupiscence (NCR, Oct. 24).

    this website gives the exception to wives or does it? if you look lustfully at your wife and it can be done if you do not "reduce their wives to mere objects of sexual desire and forget the other dimensions of interpersonal dialogue and spiritual exchange".

    why can't this be done also to your lover? do you agree with the pope here? this was done in 1980, not too long ago.

    second question is. if the people here really think it is a sin, what are you doing about it? are you actually trying not to ***** or something?

    Reducing one's wife to a mere sex object is a different matter.

    You can make love and desire your wife and it is ok since you are doing it within the confines of marriage. It is the only state wherein a man and a woman can physically consumate their love.

    In the end as for marriage it is the heart that matters. When you love your wife you will not treat her as a sex object. You will love her for who she is. Yes you may desire and even consumate it since making love is a gift from God.

    "The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control." (1 Corinthians 7:4-5)


    Rickym what is the real problem in your question? It is the technicality isn't it? And this is where Jesus had the problem with the hearts of the Pharisees.

    Look at the heart for the Holy Spirit will show what is the truth. Unbelievers will scorn it while self-righteous men will twist it in varying degrees that in the end you couldn't tell what it really implies in the first place.
  • rickymrickym Member PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    am bumping this one up, we might have different/new views from the new people.

    in short
    polyamory is having multiple serious love affairs with or without sex with several people with all people knowing that they are several. so in effect there is no cheating cause everyone knows that each one has several.

    1. so biblically or non-biblically is this ethical
    2. if it is ethical, is it possible without jealousy
    3. and for people who manage it. how do you feel. are you really free from guilt? are you really in love. how intense?
    4. are you interested?
    5. for those who can do it, how do you advice people to start.
  • rickymrickym Member PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    here's an example of a woman who is polyamorous, married and lesbian

    http://skywind8.livejournal.com/tag/polyamory
    "Someone asked:
    For those of us who are curious (but too afraid to ask!) could you explain what "poly" means?

    I use the word "poly" as a short form of "polyamory" - which still may not answer your question!

    Polyamorous means "having multiple loves." It refers specifically to having multiple simultaneous, open and honest love relationships. It's not cheating because it's with the knowledge and full agreement of everyone involved; cheating breaks the rules, but polyamory changes the rules. It's different from swinging or casual sex in that swinging tends to be more focused on sexy play with less emotional ties, where polyamory is more focused on love relationships with the sex, and may last much longer. But it's not always an either-or; many people fall loosely in the area between polyamory and swinging, and may be more or less casual about either.

    What it means for me is that my husband and I are comfortable with both of us having other lovers; flirting, dating, being intimate, being in love, sharing our lives with special people. But as in any dating, partners who are a good fit and situations that work out well may be infrequent and difficult to find - especially since anyone who would be involved with one of us would need to be comfortable with polyamory as well.

    The other question that often follows this is, but what about jealousy?

    I haven't hit that experience anywhere near as much as some people have; so my experience is not completely representative. However. I tend not to feel "jealousy" itself - but sometimes I feel "left out" and want to be more a part of something. I may see my partner making out with someone else, and it turns me on and I wish I were a part of it, not being left out. I may feel sad that I'm not participating. But I can answer that by speaking up and saying "I want to play too!" which is usually met with an enthusiastic come-on-in. And from up close, one of the most beautiful things I've experienced is watching the hot sexy love and joy of my partner and his other partner. It feels intense and wonderful and safe and totally hot. There's a word that the poly subculture came up with for that: compersion, the feeling of being happy because your partner is happy with their other-love.

    I know my relationship with my partner is strong and resilient and lasting. Other partners bring more love and more joy, not a fear of loss. It's not what we have role models for in traditional culture, but it's still a very real experience for some of us.

    I have blog posts on polyamory tagged for easy viewing. You can also hit Google with the term and get pretty useful stuff."

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