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Is Jesus Christ HUMAN or DIVINE?

In 325 CE, the early Church convened the Council of Nicea. This council agreed that Jesus is divine, that he is one in being with the Father.

Years later, the Council of Constantinople refuted this claim by stressing that Jesus is fully human.

Not too long after, the Council of Ephesus reclaimed the divinity of Jesus. The convention also added that Mary is not merely the Mother of Christ, but the Mother of God.

But this didn't satisfy members of the community, hence the calling of the Council of Chalcedon. This council provided a more profound answer: Jesus is both divine and human, and that these two natures are inseparable.

The Chalcedonian dogma is widely accepted until now, but I see it so confusing. How could Jesus possibly be both God and human? It's quite hard for me to reconcile two different identities in one.

And this confuses me more: If Jesus is divine, why did he have to endure human pain and suffering and not do something about it (sorry for raising a century-old question, but I believe he could have used his power then)? If Jesus is human, why do we revere and worship him now as God (surely, we can't worship humans)?

I've been Catholic since I was born, but these questions continue to bug me up to now. I hope you can share your insights on this. I continue to seek for answers because I want to strengthen my faith. I believe that I have to understand my faith more for it to make sense. I'm just confused at the moment.
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Comments

  • gakutokamuigakutokamui biased gooner PExer
    ^ well whoever said religions have to make sense? all that is required is to believe and thats that. :D
  • samantha_jonessamantha_jones sassy beeyatch PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    Alam ko he's human if you read the bible he even said that himself.
  • essexessex convince me PExer
    No such person ever existed, atleast not Jesus of the bible. ;)
  • gundamgundam DEITY PExer
    ^ well whoever said religions have to make sense? all that is required is to believe and thats that. :D

    There should be reason behind faith. We cannot believe if we don't fully understand what we believe. Otherwise, we'll be blind followers.
  • gakutokamuigakutokamui biased gooner PExer
    gundam wrote:
    There should be reason behind faith. We cannot believe if we don't fully understand what we believe. Otherwise, we'll be blind followers.
    but isn't that what faith is all about? believing in something regardless of proof, evidence or even sense? i mean, dont christians believe that jesus raised the dead even if all our faculties say that such an act can't make sense and is thus impossible? abraham supposedly willingly went to sacrifice his son even if it didn't make sense... shouldn't people claiming to be "faithful" do the same?

    if you need to "fully understand" it to believe it, where's the faith in that?

    also as a catholic, you're supposed to believe in "dogma" which shouldn't be questioned no matter what. apparently, you can go to hell for what you're doing right now.

    careful with your pryings into being a freethinker... you might find it hard to go back. :D
  • decoy47decoy47 Arm the Mob PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    ^ Swallow the red pill gundam, and we'll show you how deep the rabbit hole is... :D
  • essexessex convince me PExer
    ^I don't know about that, the blue pill doesnt sound so bad... ignorance is bliss afterall :D
  • gundamgundam DEITY PExer
    but isn't that what faith is all about? believing in something regardless of proof, evidence or even sense? i mean, dont christians believe that jesus raised the dead even if all our faculties say that such an act can't make sense and is thus impossible? abraham supposedly willingly went to sacrifice his son even if it didn't make sense... shouldn't people claiming to be "faithful" do the same?

    if you need to "fully understand" it to believe it, where's the faith in that?

    also as a catholic, you're supposed to believe in "dogma" which shouldn't be questioned no matter what. apparently, you can go to hell for what you're doing right now.

    careful with your pryings into being a freethinker... you might find it hard to go back. :D

    Catholic theology teaches us about "faith seeking understanding." At least on my part, I learned that faith and reason are two integral and inseparable things. C'mon, how can we believe if we don't understand what we believe to begin with?

    And please don't tell me that Abraham's sacrifice of his son did not make sense and was done only out of sheer faith. Yes, there was faith in it; but Abraham also had reason. He knew he made sense. Abraham communicated with God who spoke to him directly. Having such direct line of communication was enough reason for him to believe. Abraham wouldn't have sacrificed his son for no reason at all. God talked to him, and that was reason.

    Also, I personally find it hard to believe that dogmas shouldn't be questioned "no matter what." Yes, I recognize the authority of these dogmas. I acknowledge that these were made by enlightened Church leaders who know religion a lot better than me. But aren't the creators of dogma, after all, still humans? Even those who convened at the Christological councils I mentioned in my previous post are humans. Those who declared that God was human, divine, or both are all humans. How then can their precepts be not questioned in any way and no matter what?

    Oh please, we're no longer in the Spanish era where friars dictate this or that without people raising questions. Back then, Filipinos believed what the powerful priests told without even understanding why they had to believe. That is not real faith. This don't-question-no-matter-what approach is, for me, very absurdly conservative. It may make people believe and be faithful, but such faith is undeniably shallow.

    I believe in God. That's precisely why I want to understand and know Him better. I acknowledge His existence and power, but I cannot just follow Him with my eyes closed and my mind not functioning. I want my faith to deepen and grow stronger. I don't want to pray the Rosary, attend mass, and commemmorate Lent without understanding why I do so.

    God Himself gave me the ability to think, understand, and reason out; why then should I not integrate these faculties to deepen my faith in and relationship with Him? Surely, finding reason behind faith is no grounds for entrance into hell. I don't know why you're telling me that.

    You seem to stress that understanding is dangerous to faith. I do not think so. I believe that these two things can be reconciled if we choose to and if we don't want to be blind and ignorant followers.

    By the way, this thread has a topic. Better answer my quiestion if you know the answer.
  • angdaanangdaan Zion's Daughter PExer
    gundam, if you mean divine as God, Jesus is not for Jesus is human. God is not a man. Jesus is man not God but Jesus is holy and in that sense it is correct to say Jesus is divine. God made Jesus holy....Still there is only one true God, the Father. <- THE TRUTH.. To accept and believe that Jesus is a true God is going against the truth.
  • decoy47decoy47 Arm the Mob PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    gundam wrote:
    By the way, this thread has a topic. Better answer my quiestion if you know the answer.

    Sorry, sorry, I really just like to kid around.

    I revived an old thread about Jesus' resurrection after I read your inquiries (The Investigation). That good enough?

    Be careful though my friend. Maybe you are a few slipperry steps away from becoming a Deist? Or maybe just a disdain for organized religion? You will burn in hell for all eternity if that happens...along with me and the rest of the heathens in these forums. Don't worry though, heaven is overrated. :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
  • peejay_capeejay_ca Banned by Admin PExer
    decoy47 wrote:
    Sorry, sorry, I really just like to kid around.

    I revived an old thread about Jesus' resurrection after I read your inquiries (The Investigation). That good enough?

    Be careful though my friend. Maybe you are a few slipperry steps away from becoming a Deist? Or maybe just a disdain for organized religion? You will burn in hell for all eternity if that happens...along with me and the rest of the heathens in these forums. Don't worry though, heaven is overrated. :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

    Heaven is not overrated! excuse me :)

    Now, decoy47 the council of Nicea is a proof of pure fabrication by the Catholic Church!

    The early Christians never mentioned or worshipped Christ as God but He was referred to as the Mediator and the Messiah!

    God will never be a human (Hosias 11:9)

    God is the creator and can never be part of Creation unlike Christ :)
  • ejay1ejay1 Member PExer
    If your catholic, this question isn't even arguable. Blasphemy, to say that Jesus is just human. :grrr:

    Jesus is God, Jesus is the son of God, and Jesus is devine.
  • gakutokamuigakutokamui biased gooner PExer
    gundam wrote:
    Catholic theology teaches us about "faith seeking understanding." At least on my part, I learned that faith and reason are two integral and inseparable things. C'mon, how can we believe if we don't understand what we believe to begin with?
    that is the whole point of faith. "faith seeking understanding", NOT "understanding seeking faith". in religion belief is its own proof. same way that the bible is divine because it says so... even if that is clearly circular logic (and thus doesn't make sense).
    And please don't tell me that Abraham's sacrifice of his son did not make sense and was done only out of sheer faith. Yes, there was faith in it; but Abraham also had reason. He knew he made sense. Abraham communicated with God who spoke to him directly. Having such direct line of communication was enough reason for him to believe.
    believe in what? that god would watch him kill his son? thats what he believed in. does that make sense to you?
    Abraham wouldn't have sacrificed his son for no reason at all. God talked to him, and that was reason.
    god apparently talked to him yes... even if the instructions didn't make sense. i mean, why would a just god want you to kill your innocent boy? up til the time god stopped him abraham was convinced that god WANTED him to slay his son. he didn't know that god would stop him and thus he did it with a heavy heart. he didn't KNOW anything but he had FAITH that what he was doing was for something... something he doesn't know or understand at that moment. he has a reason, yes. and that reason IS his faith.

    no proof, no sense needed. just do as you're told and believe because... you believe. :D
    Also, I personally find it hard to believe that dogmas shouldn't be questioned "no matter what." Yes, I recognize the authority of these dogmas. I acknowledge that these were made by enlightened Church leaders who know religion a lot better than me.
    if you acknowledge their "enlightenment" then why are you questioning their "wisdom"? not very faithful are you?
    But aren't the creators of dogma, after all, still humans?
    you could say the same for the bible, but you don't question that do you? be consistent about your faith... your soul depends on it. :)
    Even those who convened at the Christological councils I mentioned in my previous post are humans. Those who declared that God was human, divine, or both are all humans. How then can their precepts be not questioned in any way and no matter what?
    like i said, if you're going to question that, why not question it all (the bible, the rosary, everything you've been taught to believe). because believe it or not, those things are human constructs too.
    I believe in God. That's precisely why I want to understand and know Him better.
    why? isn't the explanation in the bible and all the supplements in dogmas accepted and approved by your church enough? is their explanation deficient? or maybe you just dont think most of it makes sense? do you plan to start a new faith based on what YOU understand as compared to what THEY have institutionalized?
    God Himself gave me the ability to think, understand, and reason out;
    he did? can you PROVE it? or did THAT question ever cross your mind?
    You seem to stress that understanding is dangerous to faith. I do not think so. I believe that these two things can be reconciled if we choose to and if we don't want to be blind and ignorant followers.
    you got it all wrong. faith IS understanding when it comes to these things. no questions or proof needed. its all in the instruction manual. faith is the be-all and end-all of christianity. ask any christian. NEVER has there been any requirement of any sort of comprehension... just acceptance i.e. faith. :)
    By the way, this thread has a topic. Better answer my quiestion if you know the answer.
    better wait a while then. people who actually KNOW are very hard to come by.

    good luck :)
  • decoy47decoy47 Arm the Mob PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    peejay_ca wrote:
    Now, decoy47 the council of Nicea is a proof of pure fabrication by the Catholic Church!

    Oh yes I definitely agree.

    You sure that heaven is not overrated? I think hell is a whole lot better. :lol:
  • BzouBzou antithesis of U PExer
    ^Very Da Vinci Code.
  • Casta DivaCasta Diva La Rhine Joyeuse PExer
    The fact, as truly attested by great clouds of witnesses since time immemorial, from the Holy Bible to the historical documents, is that, Jesus Christ of Nazareth is both human and divine, true God and true man, at the same time and in the same body and spirit. He is therefore both Lord and Man. But these dual natures of the Lord Jesus Christ is not separate; His divinity is not separate from His humanity; it is a totality of union that cannot be comprehended, much like soul is one with spirit.

    This is the truth, and this is so.
  • perkinsperkins Member PExer
    in the context of Jesus of the bible, can human be divine at the same time?

    if the bible is to be believed, he seems to have been made human out of the divine by way of his immaculate conception.

    again, if the bible is to be believed, he seems to have been made divine out of the human by way of his resurrection from the dead.

    regardless of what the verse-memorizing fanatics, the hecklers and the bible itself say, i think these features of immaculate conception and resurrection, if they are to be believed, separates Jesus from the regular guys.

    now if he is to be believed as God for these reasons, so be it.

    anyway, the non-believers have all the time to disprove these businesses about his immaculate conception, resurrection or even the genuiness of Jesus' very existence itself.
  • BzouBzou antithesis of U PExer
    Found this really interesting site:

    The Divinity of Christ by a Peter Kreeft, a professor of philosophy at Boston College.
  • decoy47decoy47 Arm the Mob PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    Are you sure Peter Kreeft is a philosophy professor? (Sounds more like a theology professor, imho) If he is, then he definitely needs a few refresher courses. Let me quote from the site:

    "No, the unbeliever almost always believes that Jesus was a good man, a prophet, a sage. Well then, if he was a sage, you can trust him and believe the essential things he says. And the essential thing he says is that he is the divine Savior of the world and that you must come to him for salvation. If he is a sage, you must accept his essential teaching as true. If his teaching is false, then he is not a sage.

    The strength of this argument is that it is not merely a logical argument about concepts; it is about Jesus."

    :lol: What argument? :lol:

    "Almost always believes" implies that there must be cases, although few in number, that believe otherwise. Sorry, but that isn't a strong argument at all. Is the logic police in the house? :)
  • decoy47decoy47 Arm the Mob PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    perkins wrote:
    anyway, the non-believers have all the time to disprove these businesses about his immaculate conception, resurrection or even the genuiness of Jesus' very existence itself.

    Awww, now, now don't flatter yourself. If you want to stay in Wonderland then I certainly don't have time for you. ;)

    It actually just takes a few minutes. Just get a copy of the Bible and check out the Gospels. :)

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