Is it ok to have a VTEC or VVT-I based car here in Manila?

froshie1 · January 2005

Mga peeps help naman. Planning to buy a car soon siguro in 2 or 3 months. Just wanna know kung ok iyongo mga VTEC or VVT-I na yan. Take note kung kukuha man ako, doon ako sa mga maliliit na sedans like Vios, Jazz, City. Isama nyo na rin iyong Kia Picanto. Gusto ko kasing car iyong matipid sa gas.

Ang sasakyan ko ngayon ay 1990 na Nissan California. Wala itong mga VTEC, VVT-i at kung ano namang ABCD XYZ technology meron tayo dyan. Ang nakokonsume nito nasa 10km per liter. Ganun ako katipid mag drive, hindi ako mahilig magaksaya ng gas.

Anyway eto mga tanong ko

1.) Ok ba itong mga technologies na ito (VVT-I/VTEC) pag gusto mong makatipid sa fuel at dinadrive mo sila (any car) sa South Express Way?

2.) May nakapagsabi sa akin na wag daw akong bibili ng 1.3 na Toyota Corolla (iyong ginagawang Taxi ngayon) kasi maaksaya daw iyon sa gas. Nasa 10km/liter daw iyon pero pag bibili daw ako ng Vios eh nasa 14km/liter daw iyon. May kinalaman daw iyong VVT-I sa pagpapatipid ng gas? So totoo ba iyon? Paano iyong Kia Picanto wala namang (name your favorite letters) ganun na technology iyon, pero matipid din ata ito sa gas diba?

3.) Eh paano naman ang VTEC? Nakakatipid din ba ang mga VTEC owners sa gas?

4.) Medyo magkadikit itong question ko sa question # 2, kung totoo na nakakatipid iyong mga cars na meron VTEC or VVT-I eh di hindi pala laging totoo na pag maliit ang makina mo eh nakakatipid ka sa gas (e.g. meron kang 1.3 na Toyota Corolla iyong ginagawang taxi ngayon). Sabi kasi ng kakilala ko mas matipid pa daw iyong 1.5 na VVT-I na Toyota Echo nya kaysa sa doon sa Toyota Corolla na 1.3. Baket ganun? Dahil ba sa VVT-I? Sabi din nya na mas matipid ang Vios na 1.5 VVT-I kaysa sa doon sa Toyota Corolla na 1.3

5.) Kung kayo papipiliin sa pangpatipid ng gas VVT-i or VTEC?

Salamat!

jason_10 · January 2005

1. yes, variable valve timing(vvt-i/vtec) is a revolutionary technology in engine design. it makes a car run very adaptable to both city and highway driving.

2. a lower displacement engine doesn't exactly mean it's fuel efficient. there are several factors affecting fuel efficiency of a car, like the body weight and design. (putting a smaller displacement engine to a heavy car would mean the engine would work harder= less fuel efficiency) the vios has a low displacement engine and a light body hence the fuel efficiency, plus vvt-i technology.

3. a vtec engine was made for fuel efficiency and power at the same time. it gives you decent power at low rpm's and more power when you floor the gas pedal above 5500rpm. best of both worlds, i might say.

4. for city driving, matipid ang 1.3 na corolla but during long drives, magastos na because the engine is working harder plus the heavy body adds to engine load, the engine works harder. and its a carb. unlike a 1.5 vios, small body bigger engine, hindi hirap or puwersado ang engine, plus its efi already. vvt-i also plays a major role in its fuel efficiency.

5. for me(mejo bias) i'd go with the vtec since honda has invented this technology as early as the late 80's so now, they have nearly perfected this technology unlike the other car brands that are only using variable valve timing technology only recently.

apricot_cream · January 2005

jason_10 wrote:

1. yes, variable valve timing(vvt-i/vtec) is a revolutionary technology in engine design. it makes a car run very adaptable to both city and highway driving.

2. a lower displacement engine doesn't exactly mean it's fuel efficient. there are several factors affecting fuel efficiency of a car, like the body weight and design. (putting a smaller displacement engine to a heavy car would mean the engine would work harder= less fuel efficiency) the vios has a low displacement engine and a light body hence the fuel efficiency, plus vvt-i technology.

3. a vtec engine was made for fuel efficiency and power at the same time. it gives you decent power at low rpm's and more power when you floor the gas pedal above 5500rpm. best of both worlds, i might say.

4. for city driving, matipid ang 1.3 na corolla but during long drives, magastos na because the engine is working harder plus the heavy body adds to engine load, the engine works harder. and its a carb. unlike a 1.5 vios, small body bigger engine, hindi hirap or puwersado ang engine, plus its efi already. vvt-i also plays a major role in its fuel efficiency.

5. for me(mejo bias) i'd go with the vtec since honda has invented this technology as early as the late 80's so now, they have nearly perfected this technology unlike the other car brands that are only using variable valve timing technology only recently.

in reply in your [5], so why does toyota advertise its vvt-i as "the next generation engine"?

GreatBop · January 2005

^it's called "MARKETING"...

Ford has their own (vortec ata tawag)... so does every other camanufacturers... - just like 'all wheel drives'...

so_obVIOS · January 2005

VVT-i was introduced just a few years after VTEC so It's not a very new technology too. And the two work in completely different ways...you can google your way if you really want to see how (or you can go ask shun_sakurai hehe). And several advances have been made on both...in fact they now have the i-VTEC and the VVTL-i

VTEC still provides more power in the high-rev range from what I've read, though VVT-i kicks in much earlier, somewhere around 3000 rpm, as compared to VTEC's 5000+. I also noticed my Vios is pretty quick in accelerating around the 2500 to 3500 rev range.

Km/L? Last time I checked I got 12.8 from my 1.3 Vios. That was composed of almost entirely Makati rush hour driving + 1 trip to Tagaytay.

SpincrasS · January 2005

Why not considering i-DSI engine?

Honda's intelligent Dual & Sequential Ignition (i-DSI) engine is the second i-Series engine, next to i-VTEC.

This new generation engine was developed exclusively for compact vehicles. Achieving best in its class high fuel economy.

i-DSI engine can be found in City and Jazz....

talipandas9 · January 2005

I see some new Nissan Sentras going around with a VTC emblem on right front fender. Could it stand for "Variable Timing Control"?

jason_10 · January 2005

not being biased again with honda engines but most car manufacturers are following the variable valve timing (VTEC) introduced by honda more than a decade ago. i think even bmw's have their version of vtec known as VANOS.

back to the topic, any vehicle with variable valve timing technology is worth buying. so wether its a city, vios or jazz, you'll be able to appreciate the advances in engine tech,

OTEP R · January 2005

VORTEC is what GM calls their truck engines, Ford calls them TRITON.

I don't know if there is anything variable about the timing of these engines.

so_obVIOS · January 2005

jason_10 wrote:

not being biased again with honda engines but most car manufacturers are following the variable valve timing (VTEC) introduced by honda more than a decade ago. i think even bmw's have their version of vtec known as VANOS.

Not being biased against Honda too, but VANOS came before VTEC. I think I also read somewhere that VVT-i shares more similarities with VANOS than with VTEC.

Either way manufacturers didn't put these mechanisms with funny acronyms for naught. And don't base your choice on VVT-i or VTEC cause if your just the average joe, you'd barely even notice the difference between the two. Pick what car suits you most.

so_obVIOS · January 2005

SpincrasS wrote:

Why not considering i-DSI engine?

Honda's intelligent Dual & Sequential Ignition (i-DSI) engine is the second i-Series engine, next to i-VTEC.

This new generation engine was developed exclusively for compact vehicles. Achieving best in its class high fuel economy.

i-DSI engine can be found in City and Jazz....

I don't think i-DSI is an evolution of VTEC. The former has nothing to do with variable timing. But yes, it's also an innovation itself.

shun_sakurai · January 2005

I see some new Nissan Sentras going around with a VTC emblem on right front fender. Could it stand for "Variable Timing Control"?

It's Nissan jargon for "Valve Timing Control." Basically the same thing as the variable valve trickery you can see in other cars (i.e. VTEC or VVT-i).

My answer on the questions...
According to Honda and Toyota, variable valve-timing technology is one sort of answer to making engines more 'flexible': you can theoretically enjoy good fuel economy while having high power output when the need arises. In fact Honda's first mass-produced application of this technology was called "VTEC-E," the "E" standing for 'economy.'

Still, I think they're not a guaranteed solution to saving fuel. The best fuel-saving device is still a light foot on the gas pedal, driving a lightweight car.

Sabi kasi ng kakilala ko mas matipid pa daw iyong 1.5 na VVT-I na Toyota Echo nya kaysa sa doon sa Toyota Corolla na 1.3. Baket ganun? Dahil ba sa VVT-I? Sabi din nya na mas matipid ang Vios na 1.5 VVT-I kaysa sa doon sa Toyota Corolla na 1.3

The fundamental reason why the newer cars are so miserly with fuel, I think, is the leap from carburetors to electronic fuel injection. The old 2E engines from the Corolla 1.3s are carbureted (they've been around since 1991); most other modern gasoline engines are fuel-injected. In EFI engines I think the ECU (engine control unit) computer has control on how much or how little fuel is squirted into the intake manifold depending on the car's present condition. Carburetors are usually mechanical so they can't optimize the fuel flow as well as an EFI system.

Just my two cents, correct me if I'm wrong.

shun_sakurai · January 2005

Why not considering i-DSI engine?

Honda's intelligent Dual & Sequential Ignition (i-DSI) engine is the second i-Series engine, next to i-VTEC.

This new generation engine was developed exclusively for compact vehicles. Achieving best in its class high fuel economy.

The last sentence is true, but i-DSI engines (like the L13A of the Jazz/City) don't really share anything with the i-VTEC engines (like the K20 and K24 of the Civic, CR-V and Accord). The only thing common between the two, I think, is the intervention of the ECU to dictate the sparkplug firing sequence in i-DSI engines ("simultaneous or sequential?") and the activation of the cam profiles of the i-VTEC engines ("rounder or pointier?).

Because i-DSI engines have 2 sparkplugs per cylinder, the ECU can instruct the sparkplugs to ignite either sequentially for greater fuel economy, or simultaneously for more torque.

The older VTEC systems used to engage their pointier, wilder camshaft profiles at a certain number of RPM. This is what some call the "VTEC kick-in point". e.g. A Civic VTi would engage its wilder cams at 5500 RPM. The drawback is that this provides some sort of on-off effect. VTEC3 improved on this by providing two kick-in points.

i-VTEC disposes of the kick-in point altogether because the engagement of the wilder cams now depends on the ECU's instructions and not on a mechanical standard such as reaching xxxx RPM.

Correct me if I'm wrong

jason_10 · January 2005

so_obVIOS wrote:

Not being biased against Honda too, but VANOS came before VTEC.

just curious, what bmw engine that was released in the 80's that has vanos? we have 2 old school bmw's, an e23 and an e21 but there seems to be no vanos in them.

so_obVIOS · January 2005

Sorry, my bad.

VTEC first came into production with the NS-X in 1992. Vanos came out shortly after with the 5-Series. I concede, Honda was the first to market the technology.

As to who did it first, suprising answer: Fiat. But then again it was Honda that first developed a version useful to the public.

For more of these things, check this website:

Happy reading

apricot_cream · January 2005

shun_sakurai wrote:

The last sentence is true, but i-DSI engines (like the L13A of the Jazz/City) don't really share anything with the i-VTEC engines (like the K20 and K24 of the Civic, CR-V and Accord). The only thing common between the two, I think, is the intervention of the ECU to dictate the sparkplug firing sequence in i-DSI engines ("simultaneous or sequential?") and the activation of the cam profiles of the i-VTEC engines ("rounder or pointier?).

Because i-DSI engines have 2 sparkplugs per cylinder, the ECU can instruct the sparkplugs to ignite either sequentially for greater fuel economy, or simultaneously for more torque.

The older VTEC systems used to engage their pointier, wilder camshaft profiles at a certain number of RPM. This is what some call the "VTEC kick-in point". e.g. A Civic VTi would engage its wilder cams at 5500 RPM. The drawback is that this provides some sort of on-off effect. VTEC3 improved on this by providing two kick-in points.

i-VTEC disposes of the kick-in point altogether because the engagement of the wilder cams now depends on the ECU's instructions and not on a mechanical standard such as reaching xxxx RPM.

Correct me if I'm wrong

why dont i see vtec3 tags around new civics and citys around metro? it still reads vtec

GreatBop · January 2005

^it's also known as i-Vtec. the current model crv has it on their side fenders.

brock · January 2005

VTEC = hype

VVTI = hype din

hehe

so_obVIOS · January 2005

^ Not exactly. If you notice 1.3/1.5 engines nowadays have more punch than their brothers 10 years back.

100+ hp used to be the territory of 1.6 cars by the time the likes of the AE101 Corolla and Egg Lancer came out. 1.3 cars back then had a measly 60+

Nowadays the VVT-i 1.5 Vios and the VTEC 1.5 City go to around 108/109 HP. Even the 1.3 Vios (also w/ VVT-i) and the i-DSI equipped 1.3 City can punch to 85/86 HP. Not negligible if you ask me

brock · January 2005

so_obVIOS wrote:

^ Not exactly. If you notice 1.3/1.5 engines nowadays have more punch than their brothers 10 years back.

100+ hp used to be the territory of 1.6 cars by the time the likes of the AE101 Corolla and Egg Lancer came out. 1.3 cars back then had a measly 60+

Nowadays the VVT-i 1.5 Vios and the VTEC 1.5 City go to around 108/109 HP. Even the 1.3 Vios (also w/ VVT-i) and the i-DSI equipped 1.3 City can punch to 85/86 HP. Not negligible if you ask me

haha! seriously it's true that a vtec/vvti enabled 1.3 car packs more punch. the old 1.3 (carb) cars are really slow. i asked friends who own a 1.3 city / jazz and they said it "accelerates pretty fast."

the correct term might be "vtec myths" not "hype"

. some people have the wrong expectations. my friends expect my vtec car to be an "instant race car", top more than 200kph, or accelerate at the same level even with 5 persons inside.

the only noticeable advantage of vtec that i observed is faster acceleration. pang marketing hype lang yung ibang features kuno