COMMUNITY NOTICE: If you are having trouble in your account access, please do send us a message at [email protected] for assistance.

Points to ponder on the Biblical Death of Christ

ahmedahmed Resident Terrorist PExer
Most of what I say here was taken out of Ahmed Deedat’s debate with Josh Mcdowell

1. Three day’s after the alleged crucifixion, Jesus appeared to the eleven apostles and greeted them “Peace be with you”, but they were frightened because they thought he was a spirit. Its just natural to be terrified especially after hearing that Jesus was 3 days dead..

Luk 24:36-37 And as they spake these things, he himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they beheld a spirit.

They thought he was a spirit, but did he look like a spirit? No. He looked human.

Luk 24:39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye behold me having.

Why should they think that he is a spirit when he doesn’t look like one?

Simple, because all the news they heard about Jesus’ crucifixion and his death were all hearsay. This is hearsay because they were not there to witness that big event - THEY ALL FLED.

Mar 14:50 And they all left him, and fled.

2. Jesus’ body is not a resurrected body. It is still a mortal body because it still yearns food. An immortal body doesn’t need food because it never dies and becomes like the body of angels.

Luk 20:36 for neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels;and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

But Jesus was hungry.

Luk 24:41-43 And while they still disbelieved for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here anything to eat?
And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish. And he took it, and ate before them.


In other words, when Jesus asked them to touch him, what he meant was, “I was not resurrected!” And why did he eat? To prove that he is still a man who hungers like they do. Do resurrected bodies do that?

3. Jesus body was supposed to be stinking in the cave after three days. And here comes three women wanting to “anoint” his body. The Hebrew word for anoint is 'massahah'. . Massahah means to rub, to massage, to anoint.

Mar 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices, that they might come and anoint him.

Now, why would they want to massage a rotting stinking body? If you massage a body dead for already 3 days, it would fall apart. Why would they want to massage a dead body, unless they are looking for a live person!

4. A resurrected body need not roll the stone to come out.

5. Mary thought he was a gardener.

Joh 20:14 When she had thus said, she turned herself back, and beholdeth Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.

Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou hast borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.


Does a resurrected body looks like that of a gardener?

Why was he asking, “Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou?” Metaphorically, he might be pulling her leg.

Was he really disguised as a gardener for fear that the Jews might kill him?

6. She said: Sir, if thou hast borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.

How can a woman take away a corpse, who weighs probably at least 160 pounds, and add to that 100 pounds of medicine( John 19:39)with him take him away? Is she superwoman? What would she do with a rotting body?

6. Joh 20:17 Jesus saith to her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended unto the Father:

Why won’t Jesus let her touch him? Would she be electrocuted or something? No, because it hurts. Jesus body is still sore.

“I am not yet ascended unto the Father” simply means : I am not dead yet! This is a jewish idiom.

7. Mat 12:38-40 Then certain of the scribes and Pharisees answered him, saying, Teacher, we would see a sign from thee.

But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given it but the sign of Jonah the prophet:

for as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.


According to Christian belief, Jesus was dead for three days. But Jonah was alive 3 days inside the whale.

Jon 2:1 Then Jonah prayed unto Jehovah his God out of the fish's belly.

Do dead men pray?

If Jonah was alive inside the belly, Jesus should be alive too inside the tomb.

Jesus is telling you that what is going to happen will be like Jonah.

If Jesus was dead in the tomb, the skeptical Pharisees would have been laughing out loud and saying that Jesus was a false prophet.

I don't want a debate but only for you to ponder upon and comment.

Comments

  • DoctorNODoctorNO 0(-v-)0 PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    Ang dadali naman nyan. teka ha.
  • joe_higashijoe_higashi C-fundaMetalist PExer
    wow! kelangan nyo referee? ay di pala debat?\

    :D
  • DoctorNODoctorNO 0(-v-)0 PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    Why should they think that he is a spirit when he doesn’t look like one?
    I think people who has no experience seeing spirits would be mistaken if they see a person in front of them who they actually saw got killed and was buried. Ako rin siguro ganoon ang magiging conclusion ko if I suddenly see my dead daddy right in front of me.
    Simple, because all the news they heard about Jesus’ crucifixion and his death were all hearsay. This is hearsay because they were not there to witness that big event - THEY ALL FLED.

    Mar 14:50 And they all left him, and fled
    Who ever said that they weren’t there at the big event? Mar 14:50 was hours before the main event. This argument hinges only upon an assumption.
    2. Jesus’ body is not a resurrected body. It is still a mortal body because it still yearns food. An immortal body doesn’t need food because it never dies and becomes like the body of angels.

    4. A resurrected body need not roll the stone to come out.
    There is a difference between a resurrected body and a glorified body. I was a Dungeons & Dragons player for several years and resurrection means your earthly body being restored to life. That means it would require food, water, sex & entertainment. :D
    3. Jesus body was supposed to be stinking in the cave after three days. And here comes three women wanting to “anoint” his body. The Hebrew word for anoint is 'massahah'. . Massahah means to rub, to massage, to anoint.

    Mar 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices, that they might come and anoint him.

    Now, why would they want to massage a rotting stinking body? If you massage a body dead for already 3 days, it would fall apart. Why would they want to massage a dead body, unless they are looking for a live person!
    And why not? Better late than never is a good old proverb.

    5. Mary thought he was a gardener.

    Joh 20:14 When she had thus said, she turned herself back, and beholdeth Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.

    Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou hast borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.

    Does a resurrected body looks like that of a gardener?

    Why was he asking, “Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou?” Metaphorically, he might be pulling her leg.

    Was he really disguised as a gardener for fear that the Jews might kill him?
    Wala naming sinabi dun na tumingin si Mary sa mukha. Eh kapag mangiyak ngiyak ka eh diba nakatungo ka? At iiwas kang makipag eye contact?
    6. She said: Sir, if thou hast borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.

    How can a woman take away a corpse, who weighs probably at least 160 pounds, and add to that 100 pounds of medicine( John 19:39)with him take him away? Is she superwoman? What would she do with a rotting body?
    Does that mean she has to lift the corpse in order to take him back? She could easily drag the thing. At diba palabuy labuy si cristo at mahilig magfasting? Eh di dapat payatut yun.

    6. Joh 20:17 Jesus saith to her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended unto the Father:

    Why won’t Jesus let her touch him? Would she be electrocuted or something? No, because it hurts. Jesus body is still sore.

    “I am not yet ascended unto the Father” simply means : I am not dead yet! This is a jewish idiom.
    Grabe naman sa panghuhula yan. Eh sa ayaw nung taong pahawak eh. Whatever the reason is none of our business. :glee:

    7. there shall no sign be given it but the sign of Jonah the prophet:

    for as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

    According to Christian belief, Jesus was dead for three days. But Jonah was alive 3 days inside the whale.

    Jon 2:1 Then Jonah prayed unto Jehovah his God out of the fish's belly.

    Do dead men pray?

    If Jonah was alive inside the belly, Jesus should be alive too inside the tomb.

    Jesus is telling you that what is going to happen will be like Jonah.

    If Jesus was dead in the tomb, the skeptical Pharisees would have been laughing out loud and saying that Jesus was a false prophet.

    I don't want a debate but only for you to ponder upon and comment.
    Eh yung sign nga ang pinaguusapan hindi yung condition. Gusto nung muslim magimbento ng sariling interpretation.
  • DoctorNODoctorNO 0(-v-)0 PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    At teka nga muna. The quranic heaven does promise muslims sex & alcohol. So whats the big deal with a resurrected jesus taking a heartly meal?
  • ahmedahmed Resident Terrorist PExer
    Originally posted by DoctorNO
    I think people who has no experience seeing spirits would be mistaken if they see a person in front of them who they actually saw got killed and was buried. Ako rin siguro ganoon ang magiging conclusion ko if I suddenly see my dead daddy right in front of me.

    Pwede. :D
    Who ever said that they weren’t there at the big event? Mar 14:50 was hours before the main event. This argument hinges only upon an assumption.

    Pwede rin. :D
    There is a difference between a resurrected body and a glorified body. I was a Dungeons & Dragons player for several years and resurrection means your earthly body being restored to life. That means it would require food, water, sex & entertainment. :D

    Christ was supposed to have a ressurected body didn't he?
    And why not? Better late than never is a good old proverb.

    Ang baho na nyan, naaagnas pa. Pano mo hihilutin yan?

    Wala naming sinabi dun na tumingin si Mary sa mukha. Eh kapag mangiyak ngiyak ka eh diba nakatungo ka? At iiwas kang makipag eye contact?

    Ano wala? Meron! Napagkamalan ngang hardinero e.

    Joh 20:14 When she had thus said, she turned herself back, and beholdeth Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
    Does that mean she has to lift the corpse in order to take him back? She could easily drag the thing. At diba palabuy labuy si cristo at mahilig magfasting? Eh di dapat payatut yun.

    Not to take him back, but to take him away. 3 araw na yung bangkay, eh kung makalas-kalas yun habang kinakaladkad niya? Karpintero si Kristo, malamang macho yun. Siguro yung 160 pounds payatot na yun para sa taga Middle East.
    Grabe naman sa panghuhula yan. Eh sa ayaw nung taong pahawak eh. Whatever the reason is none of our business. :glee:

    Anong grabeng hula? Simple at posibleng hula yon na ayaw magpahawak dahil masakit ang katawan. At bakit away niya magpahawak sa sariling ina? Malamang, masakit ang katawan. Sabi nga, idiom daw yung phrase na "I haven't ascended to the Father" na ang ibig sabihin ay "I am not dead yet!"

    Eh bakit dun sa mga apostol, nagpahawak na siya? Siguro hindi na masakit.
    Eh yung sign nga ang pinaguusapan hindi yung condition. Gusto nung muslim magimbento ng sariling interpretation.

    Walang imbento don. Dapat eksakto ang hula ni Kristo. Kung hindi tama ang hula niya, bulaang propeta siya.

    Kung buhay si Jonah sa loob ng balyena, dapat buhay din si Kristo sa loob ng kweba. "As Jona was..."

    Anyway, I just posted this because I found this interesting. Could be offensive for Christians but nothing conclusive for me. I knew this could be rebutted easily but Deedat has some points, but his opponent was not successful at rebutting him in most his allegations but instead made emotional speeches about Christ.

    You can read the whole debate at
    http://www.answering-islam.org/Debates/Deedat_McDowell.html

    for more writings of deedat on this matter:
    http://www.jamaat.net/crux/crucifixion.html
  • DoctorNODoctorNO 0(-v-)0 PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    Christ was supposed to have a ressurected body didn't he?
    Yeah patay na nabuhay uli. Pwede pa ring kumain yun. Parang si Lazarus sa bible. Patay na at binuhay ulit. What do you call that? Diba resurrection?
    Ang baho na nyan, naaagnas pa. Pano mo hihilutin yan?
    3 days lang naman at nakatago pa sa kweba na medyo malamig sa loob. And besides, unexpected yung pangyayari. Kailangan ng preparation para maihanda yung mga incense.
    Ano wala? Meron! Napagkamalan ngang hardinero e.

    Joh 20:14 When she had thus said, she turned herself back, and beholdeth Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
    Sabi lang naman “she turned herself back”. Kaya she saw the person standing there pero hindi nya narecognize. Kasi nga pwedeng umiiwas syang makipag eye-contact dahil umiiyak sya. Or for whatever reason.

    Not to take him back, but to take him away. 3 araw na yung bangkay, eh kung makalas-kalas yun habang kinakaladkad niya? Karpintero si Kristo, malamang macho yun. Siguro yung 160 pounds payatot na yun para sa taga Middle East.
    Pareho lang naman halos yung “take back” sa “take away”. Meaning from one point to another pa rin. And 3 days in a cave aint that bad. Konti lang na diperensya sa karne na tatlong araw nang binebenta sa talipapa. Siguro dati medyo medyo macho si kristo, but 3 years na nakikikain lang eh papayat yun. At meron pa nga 40 days na fasting.

    Anong grabeng hula? Simple at posibleng hula yon na ayaw magpahawak dahil masakit ang katawan. At bakit away niya magpahawak sa sariling ina? Malamang, masakit ang katawan. Sabi nga, idiom daw yung phrase na "I haven't ascended to the Father" na ang ibig sabihin ay "I am not dead yet!"

    Eh bakit dun sa mga apostol, nagpahawak na siya? Siguro hindi na masakit.
    Si Mary Magdalene yun. Pero oo nga ayaw pahawak kay Mary tapos after 1 week nagpawak na. LOL! Gumaling na nga siguro yung mga sugat. :D

    Walang imbento don. Dapat eksakto ang hula ni Kristo. Kung hindi tama ang hula niya, bulaang propeta siya.

    Kung buhay si Jonah sa loob ng balyena, dapat buhay din si Kristo sa loob ng kweba. "As Jona was..."
    Yung “sign” ang tinutukoy diba? At ang tinukoy na sign ay yung confinement for 3 days. Open to interpretation ito
  • ahmedahmed Resident Terrorist PExer
    Originally posted by DoctorNO
    Yeah patay na nabuhay uli. Pwede pa ring kumain yun. Parang si Lazarus sa bible. Patay na at binuhay ulit. What do you call that? Diba resurrection?

    Sabi nga ni Hesus:

    Luk 20:36 for neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels;and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

    Si Lazaro mamamatay uli, si Hesus hindi na.

    3 days lang naman at nakatago pa sa kweba na medyo malamig sa loob. And besides, unexpected yung pangyayari. Kailangan ng preparation para maihanda yung mga incense.

    Rigor mortis 10 minutes to several hours after death. Siguradong matigas na yang bangkay. Bakit mo mamasahihin ang bangkay? Lalo na't matigas na?

    Sabi lang naman “she turned herself back”. Kaya she saw the person standing there pero hindi nya narecognize. Kasi nga pwedeng umiiwas syang makipag eye-contact dahil umiiyak sya. Or for whatever reason.

    sabi nga "she turned herself back.....and beholdeth Jesus standing"

    Beholdeth, ang ibig sabihin, nakita. Nalaman lang niya na si Hesus nga yun nung binanggit na ang pangalan niya. "Mary" Eh mukhang nagpapanggap nga si Hesus na isang hardinero.
    Pareho lang naman halos yung “take back” sa “take away”. Meaning from one point to another pa rin. And 3 days in a cave aint that bad. Konti lang na diperensya sa karne na tatlong araw nang binebenta sa talipapa. Siguro dati medyo medyo macho si kristo, but 3 years na nakikikain lang eh papayat yun. At meron pa nga 40 days na fasting.

    "Take back" isasauli sa kweba. "Take away", dadalhin sa malayo. Yung sa talipapa may asin at yelo kaya ganon. Pero kahit na, para sa isang babae na magbuhat ng matigas na bangkay ay napakahirap. Pero hindi naman ganon kapayat si Kristo na pwedeng buhatin ni Marya. Kahit sabihin mo pang payatot na 100 pounds lang.
    Si Mary Magdalene yun. Pero oo nga ayaw pahawak kay Mary tapos after 1 week nagpawak na. LOL! Gumaling na nga siguro yung mga sugat. :D

    Oo nga ano, si Magdalene nga.

    Yung “sign” ang tinutukoy diba? At ang tinukoy na sign ay yung confinement for 3 days. Open to interpretation ito

    Oo nga naisip ko rin yan na ang pagkapareho nila ay ang dami ng araw na itinigil nila sa balyena at sa kweba, at hindi kung buhay o patay.

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file