Is it because we are mostly Catholics.....

It's quite ironic that being the most pre-dominantly Catholic country, the Philippines has one of the worst graft and corruption record. Is it because of our religious belief that we can always ask forgiveness and still be forgiven? Is it because of our inherent weakness or lack of political will from our leaders to discipline? Religiosity is not a sign of goodness, don't you think?
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Comments

  • KuyaDannyKuyaDanny Moderator PEx Moderator
    I don't think it's because of our religion. It's because of the religious (ie, the Spanish friars) who were once tasked to rule this country. They were corrupt. And because they were also spreading the word of God, some of the faithful got the bright idea that what these guys were doing was perfectly OK.

    And so, traditions were born.
  • IraIra Member PEx Rookie ⭐
    I don't think it has to do with Catholicism. On the contrary, I think it reflects more on how superficial religion is here--while people here are inordinately fond of going to mass, novena, giving alms, etc., they don't really apply what the Christian doctrine teaches them as right and wrong. It's purely greed and selfishness overriding any moral responsibility towards others.
  • ReflectionReflection Member PExer
    Ira, AMEN! (Even non-Catholics will understand that word).
  • batang uliranbatang uliran Administrator PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    A lot of it also has to do with Marcos and his cronies. That era was dilled with corruption and worse, it became acceptable and even fashionable to be corrupt.
  • cloneclone Member PExer
    Many corrupt people use religion as a facade to cowardly hide behind it's benign-looking mantle. This is supposed to make people believe that such a "pious" person could not be capable criminal behavior.

    You know what the sad part of this is? That there are so many people who prefer to remain ignorant rather than see through this facade and, in the process, continue to empower such corrupt officials at the ballot box.

    So, the appearance of being religious (in any denomination) has nothing to do with corrupt behavior.
  • MAINLANDERMAINLANDER Member PExer
    I'm willing to bet a finger if you ask all the hardened criminals we have here, more than 70% of them would admit being Catholics. I strongly feel there is a very strong relation between crime and corruption with Catholicism. Not that I'm saying there is no individual choice. But there has to be a direct link somehow.
  • NoesisNoesis D' magical dragon =) PExer
    It's quite ironic that being the most pre-dominantly Catholic country, the Philippines has one of the worst graft and corruption record. Is it because of our religious belief that we can always ask forgiveness and still be forgiven? Is it because of our inherent weakness or lack of political will from our leaders to discipline? Religiosity is not a sign of goodness, don't you think?

    In my opinion, religion has nothing to do with it. I think something in our culture lies the culprit that damages our political integrity (you can think about it). This would mean that it is more likely that graft and corruption will always be there, independent to religion, unless there would come an event that would radically modify our culture.
  • cloneclone Member PExer
    Noesis:

    Please refer to my posting above which concurs with the last part of your opinion.


    MAINLANDER:

    If I were you, I'd be more careful with that finger you are pointing with to blame Catholicism (or any religion) for the people's criminal behavior. You just might lose your bet...and your wagging/wagered finger, too. You said this:

    "I'm willing to bet a finger if you ask all the hardened criminals we have here, more than 70% of them would admit being Catholics."

    This premise is wrong and full of holes. Of course, a high number of Pinoy inmates will be Catholics because approx 80% of the population IS Catholic. It is no different than saying more than 70% of hardened criminals are Filipinos.

    "I strongly feel there is a very strong relation between crime and corruption with Catholicism."

    What is your objective basis for making such a blanket statement which directly links Catholicism with crime and corruption? Present your facts instead of your uninformed subjective feelings to support your condemnation of Catholicism. (Anecdotal incidents do not count unless it is part of a confirmed trend and is exclusive only to this particular religion)

    "Not that I'm saying there is no individual choice. But there has to be a direct link somehow."

    WHAT DIRECT LINK? PROVE IT!

    MAINLANDER, If you have not picked up on it yet, I want you to know that, as a Catholic, I strongly resent the unfounded implications you make here about the religious group I so proudly belong to and I challenge you to defend the position you presented.

    No, I don't harbor any animosity toward you or anyone. But if you are going to make such derogatory statement, be prepared to defend it objectively. Otherwise you owe all Catholics a big apology for directly linking our religion to criminality.



    [This message has been edited by clone (edited 01-31-2000).]
  • batang uliranbatang uliran Administrator PEx Veteran ⭐⭐
    Many Filipinos are Catholic and Crime is on the rise therefore one should have something to do with the other? Should we blame Catholicism also for our passion for basketball or our fondness for Jollibee?
  • cbiecbie cat'seye PExer
    catholicism doesn't have anything to do with the3 crime in the philippines. if the statistics says that majority of the filipinos are catholics, therefore, majority of the catholics are criminals poverty should be blamed not catholicism.
  • Lo LoLo Lo Member PExer
    Mali nga naman yang sinabi mo Mainlander.
    Hindi ang katolisismo ang sanhi ng krimen sa Pilipinas. Maaari nga na binyagan sila sa simbahan ngunit and maling landas na pinili nila ay dahil sa hindi pagsunod sa mga prinsipyos ng pagka katoliko.

    Sangayon ako kay Clone sa mga tinuring niya. May katuwiran siyang makapagsalita ng ganoon sa pagtatanggol niya sa kanyang paniniwala.
    Aber, tignan ko kung kaya mong sagutin ang mga tanong ni Clone. Kundi ay inaasahan ko rin na bawiin mo ang iyong mali at likong opinyon tunggkol sa aming pananampalataya.
  • clone: yeyyy! good for you!
    *clap, clap* :)

    mainlander: :P :o ..tama si
    clone...masama yun sinabi mo
    about catholics naman eh.
  • jepoyjepoy Member PExer
    Our country's sufferings has nothing to do with religion but everything to do with our lack of relationship with God. But it's not too late...

    "if My people, who are called by My name, will humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land." -2 Chronicles 7:14
  • Lonely BoyLonely Boy Member PExer
    Mainlander, I am also insulted by your claims that catholicism is related to crimes and corruption. I agree with Clone and LoLo that you owe us Catholics an apology.

    Hindi ko na nga pinansin yung una mong post but when you said later, "I strongly feel there is a very strong relation between crime and corruption with Catholicism", I can not stay silent anymore. You are very wrong, man.

    Jepoy: That is very true.



    [This message has been edited by Lonely Boy (edited 01-31-2000).]
  • MAINLANDERMAINLANDER Member PExer
    Well, people, I'm glad you all reacted strongly about the issue. It may have affected some of you in a negative way. Somehow, the subject has been nagging me for so long. It is not directed towards Catholic people per se. It is meant to bring about discussion so we could realize what is wrong with our society. I am a Catholic, as most of you are. I apologize for offending your sensibilities toward the religion. However, aren't we given the right to raise this possible relationship between crime and religion? Need we be objective about this in this discussion? Perhaps it's about time a study is done about the subject matter. If religion indeed has nothing to do with the rise in criminality and corruption, then what is?
  • ReflectionReflection Member PExer
    Mainlander,

    I understand where you are coming from with your question, but it is in the framing of the question which I believe some people found offensive.

    World history is replete with accounts of people committing atrocities against their brethren in the name of religion (Muslims vs. Christans, Protestants vs. Catholics, believers vs. non-believers, etc.). That was because they misinterpreted and/or even misrepresented the true meaning of their religious teachings for their self-serving purposes to gain power or to impose their will on their fellow men. They did these even in violation of the basic doctrine of their religion (against killing, stealing, raping, etc.)

    The bottom line to your argument is this:
    People commit crimes not because of their religion, but simply because they think they can get away with it.
  • reflection: ang galing ng answer mo.
    *clap! clap! clap!* also for you.. :)
  • sagradosagrado Ah yeah!!! PExer
    Reflection: I agree with you that, People commit crimes not because of their religion, but simply because they think they can get away with it. Ah yeah!!!

    MAINLANDER: Catholicism and corruptions is quite a separate issue, Catholicism, in some way are used for corruptions but, this issue will not stop there, its a personal choice, to commit corruption with full consent of your being... it does'nt matter what kind of religion you have or believing.

    As for your question, If religion indeed has nothing to do with the rise in criminality and corruption, then what is?

    MY ANSWER IS: POVERTY AND HUNGER FOR POWER!!!

    AH yeah!!!
  • Lo LoLo Lo Member PExer
    Mabuti't naliwanagan ka rin kahit kaunti, Mainlander.

    Basahin mo no na lang ang sagot diyan sa tanong mo doon sa sinabi ni Reflection. Napakaliwanag na ang pagkasabi niya. Kung di mo pa yon maintindihan siguro ay ayaw mo lang maniwala na walang kinalalaman ang sama ng isang tao sa pagiging katoloko niya. Wala ka rin pagasang paliwanagan pa.

    Sagrado, mayroon namang mga pulubi na hindi nagiging kriminal. Kami nga, mahirap lang kami noong bata pa ako ngunit hindi kami nakaisip ng masama sa kapwa.

    [This message has been edited by Lo Lo (edited 02-01-2000).]
  • ascotascot Goldmember PExer
    MAINLANDER: Here we go again with one of those "Blame-it-on-Catholicism" discussions. The Philippines being a predominantly Catholic country has nothing to do with the rise of criminality, anomally, corrupiton, violence and what have you in this country.

    I think that's so unfair and judgemental of you. A person, regardless of religious belief or conviction has the tendency to commit crime, and get away with it, as sagarado says.
    Nowadays, evil is very present in this world, and oftentimes, criminals aren't considerate of a Higher Power anymore. Yes, i would also have to say that they commit crime because of poverty and hunger for power, and not because they are Catholic.

    There's a verse in the Bible that goes something like this :

    " Whoever of you has committed no sin, MAY CAST THE FIRST STONE "

    PEACE! :)

    [This message has been edited by ascot (edited 02-01-2000).]

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