Seizures

How can you tell when a sleeping baby is in seizure and when there's nothing to worry about. I watch my baby sleep and sometimes she makes sudden jerky movements.

Comments

  • bjmanabatbjmanabat Member PExer
    i seriously doubt if this is really seizure. for one thing seizure does not have time predilection which means it can happen anytime not only while sleeping. another thing is jerky movements while sleeping is not a rare occurence not only to babies but also with adults. often times however this does not have clinical significance. if your baby is generally healthy with no complications during his/her birth i think there's nothing to worry about. having the same symptoms however while awake and he/she DOESN'T SEEM TO BE AWARE of his/her surrondings, WITH OR WITHOUT involvement of all extremities, loss of consciousness, spontaneous urination and/or drooling of saliva is another story.
  • IraIra Member PEx Rookie ⭐
    Finally...something along my field! :D

    How old is the baby, and was there any history of trauma or any complications during birth? Describe these jerks--character, length of time, getting worse/constant, other symptoms.
  • MaSaBaWMaSaBaW Lovella27 MD PExer
    some jerkings are natural when sleeping

    if u want i can refer u2 a very good neurologist in up pgh shes dr. hazel paragua just msgt me is u want.
  • ingweingwe Member PExer
    Hi Doc Ira. My baby has actually been in the hospital since birth (37 days; primarily for pneumonia) but my wife and I don't trust that the staff know how to tell when a baby is seizing and when she's being "jittery". The baby has gone through two series of jitteriness that gets more and more bothersome, usually with episodes first when she's asleep (sudden movements of arms and legs) and as it gets worst, even when she's awake (and she cries because she seems to be scared). We point it out to the nurses and even the residents but they say at first (when something should have already been done about it) that its just "gulat" or Moro.

    The baby has been diagnosed with hypoparathyroidism and since low calcium leading to seizures will be a lifelong (?) problem, we'd like to know for ourselves what to look out for. Another question: is there a convenient test for (ionized) calcium just like diabetics have their blood sugar tests? We don't want to have to bring the baby to labs just to monitor her calcium.

    Masabaw, our daughter has already been cleared of embolisms or meningitis so her brain seems to be clear.
  • IraIra Member PEx Rookie ⭐
    The 1-2 second jerks where the arms are flail out and the fingers and legs are extended and spread apart might really be moro, or startle reflex. It's a normal occurence for neonates, and it will last till 6 months of age. It's actually a good sign, because its absence means that there's a brain dysfunction going on. Most seizures in neonates are focal--i.e., just one part or side is moving, the other parts aren't. Also, in seizures, unlike in jitteriness, you will notice that the eyes tend to look only to one side (right or left). If you feel that you really need assurance, talk to your doctor if your baby can undergo an EEG to rule out any seizure disorder. It's a very easy bedside procedure. If your baby's ionized calcium isn't very low and he/she isn't severely hypothyroid, seizures due to hypothyroidism shouldn't worry you.

    Right now there is no on-the-spot test for hypocalcemia, but as long as the baby has regular checkups with the pediatric endocrinologist and compliance with medications is good, you don't really need to rush the child to a lab every single time. As you probably know by now, there will be symptoms like lethargy and jitteriness to watch out for. You can also ask the doctor to teach you some maneuvers you can do at home when the child is older to see if the calcium levels are low--i.e., Chvostek’s and Trousseau’s Signs. It takes a relatively long time before calcium levels are depleted, and unless the child isn't being given meds, don't worry too much about seizures.
  • Bryan_FuryBryan_Fury ONE MAN ARMY...... PExer
    Since were talking about seizures.............

    My cousin needs your help doc........

    He's been having these weird seizures which involves lose of balance, weird noise in his ears and sometimes(rarely) fainting and lose of balance (sometimes)with involuntary movement of his arms and feet.......He's been having this for around 4-5 years.........


    He has undergone tests such as EEG, Holter(not sure about the spelling) and Citiscan..........They found nothing.......Everythings normal according to the tests.........My relatives thought that he had epilepsy........But the tests proved them wrong.........

    Another thing which counters the epilepsy angle is that this weird seizure starts with a very loud noise in both of his ears.......One of my doctors told me that epilepsy does not have any warning.........It just happens........So that erases epilepsy..........

    Another angle is the ear sickness known as tinnitus(Ringing of the ears).........We went to an ENT expert and guess what.........He did not find anything......Normal........Everything is normal

    Another angle is migraine.........But our doctor told me that migraine does cause the person to faint and make him look like he's having a seizure.......

    The seizure happens everytime he hears something which is so loud or very high pitched or a sound which is very foreign...........Sometimes it also happens when he gets surprised(gulat).....It doesn't have any pattern but sometimes it happens every 2 or 3 weeks........Sometimes it attacks once, twice or thrice........Everyday, every other day or after 2 days......It does not choose its time..........It does not have a schedule

    I don't know whats wrong with him........but I guess It ain't normal.........

    He's been taking Tegretol and Sibelium ever since it started

    We need your help doc
  • IraIra Member PEx Rookie ⭐
    Your cousin appears to be having atonic seizures based on your post. I don't think it's Meniere's Disease. I'm not wholly convinced it's migraine either.

    You often do not find anything wrong in Holter monitoring or in CT scans (these are more just to rule out any concomittant problems rather than to look for a diagnosis), and actually, there are really a lot of patients who have seizure disorders who will manifest with normal EEGs. The EEG is only capable of measuring brain activity up to a certain depth, and will not catch abnormal brain waves in the deeper cortices. Sometimes, a person will also have a wholly normal EEG if he's not having seizures. If Tegretol is helping him, then you can make a clinical diagnosis of seizures even with a normal EEG. If you really want to document a seizure disorder, you can ask your neurologist for a 24-hour EEG (which, unfortunately, is pretty expensive), but it will not really change the management of his problems (i.e., Tegretol).
  • Bryan_FuryBryan_Fury ONE MAN ARMY...... PExer
    Originally posted by Ira
    Your cousin appears to be having atonic seizures based on your post. I don't think it's Meniere's Disease. I'm not wholly convinced it's migraine either.

    You often do not find anything wrong in Holter monitoring or in CT scans (these are more just to rule out any concomittant problems rather than to look for a diagnosis), and actually, there are really a lot of patients who have seizure disorders who will manifest with normal EEGs. The EEG is only capable of measuring brain activity up to a certain depth, and will not catch abnormal brain waves in the deeper cortices. Sometimes, a person will also have a wholly normal EEG if he's not having seizures. If Tegretol is helping him, then you can make a clinical diagnosis of seizures even with a normal EEG. If you really want to document a seizure disorder, you can ask your neurologist for a 24-hour EEG (which, unfortunately, is pretty expensive), but it will not really change the management of his problems (i.e., Tegretol).

    I made a short research about atonic seizures and I found that it strikes without warning..........Although its correct about the movements when he falls down and loses consciousness and the different kinds of seizures.......

    The weird thing about my cousin's seizures is that he can detect when it will happen with the noise in his ears.......And most of the time,about 85-90%, his attacks doesn't cause him to fall down and lose consciousness.......Sometimes he just loses his ability to talk and hear but he is fully aware of his surroundings.......He can communicate by the use of hands.........sometimes when he tries to talk.....he tends to talk gibberish.......Parang bulol......

    Theres some instances wherein he's having an attack but is unable to tell us since we are in a middle of a party(kahit hindi niya sabihin sa amin alam na namin).......Pero hindi naman siya nahahalata nung people around him.......What he does is bigla siyang pupunta sa isang segregated corner tapos uupo siya dun and magrerelax.........Nothing happens He appears to control the seizure........

    When the seizure happens while he's awake hindi naman siya hinihimatay although medyo nahihilo siya at nawawalan ng balance pero most of the time he is able to control it.........Pero when it happens during he is asleep.......Bigla siyang magigising tapos biglang tatayo and then bagsak with the unsual movements in his arms, feet and eyes............

    My relatives and I are really concerned about his sickness coz he's already 21.....He alraedy complained about this sickness when he was 18 although sabi niya parang lumalakas lang yung hearing in both ears tapos nahihirapan siyang magsalita......Most of atonic seizure patients are boys who are atround 12 yrs. old and below..........Does this mean something? Can it still be cured?

    Btw doc, it says in the site that atonic seizures have symptoms such as Autistic symptoms and Mental retardation........Well being in one same house for around 15 years or so........I can say that he is perfectly normal.........

    Can you suggest any other medications that he can take? Things to avoid?


    Thanks Doc Ira
  • IraIra Member PEx Rookie ⭐
    Seizures can be fully controlled by medications. Occasionally, these seizures will not recur after taking antiseizure medications for at least 2-5 years. I'm not 100% positive that it's an atonic seizure, because there are at least 40 types of seizures, and the only person who can give a detailed history would be your cousin. But the phrase "strike without warning" isn't contradictory to his being able to "detect" an oncoming seizure. What he is experiencing is an aura (either a seizure aura or just a migraine aura, whichever is his final diagnosis) which is part of the seizure component. Seizures strike without warning, but patients can have seizure auras. Don't worry too much about the statistics. It's just an average, and exceptions occur.

    If your cousin's seizures are not yet controlled with Tegretol inspite of good complicance and no adjustments of meds are being done by your physician, and if there have been no further workups save for a CT scan and a baseline EEG since before, you may want to seek a second opinion. Otherwise, if he's symptom-free, maintenance of meds for several years and regular checkups are all he needs.
  • vivianreyesvivianreyes Member PExer
    Ingwe i suggest you visit dr winnie lim khoo neurology clinic in chinese general hospital. she is a brain specialist. she is very good. she will explain every details you need to knwo about it

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