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<<< RAPTORS May Trade VINCE CARTER??!! >>>

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ATLANTA (CNNSI.com) -- The Toronto Raptors are in discussions with the Cleveland Cavaliers about a trade that would send Vince Carter to Cleveland for Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Darius Miles, according to Saturday's Toronto Sun.

According to the report, the Raptors have grown frustrated with Carter's work ethic in rehabbing from knee injuries over the past year and his lethargy in practices. Carter reportedly is unhappy in Toronto and would welcome the change of scenery.

In Cleveland, he would provide a draw at the gate for a last-place team that has had trouble attracting fans.
Ilgauskas would fill the Raptors' current void at the center position, while Miles would provide a dose of athleticism for their weak bench.

Carter has played in only 10 games this season, and last year the Raptors made the playoffs with a 13-game winning streak after he went out for the season with a knee inury. However, he remains immensely popular, leading all players in the Eastern Conference in All-Star balloting despite his prolonged absence.

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totoo kaya?

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Vince Carter's name is being linked with a trade rumour involving Darius Miles and Zydrunas Ilgauskas of the Cleveland Cavaliers.

It is not known how serious the Raptors are in trading Carter, but an uneasiness exists between Vinsanity and the franchise.

According to various sources, Carter, who missed his 10th consecutive game last night because of a knee injury, isn't happy in Toronto and would not object to a move.

The Raptors are not necessarily enthralled with Carter either.

While no one would dare go public, players and members of the team's basketball staff believe Carter has not worked hard enough during his rehab and has not practised hard when he was healthy.

Around the NBA, Carter has earned a reputation for being soft and playing with no heart.

The Raptors also have been criticized for coddling Carter.

Carter did not accompany the Raptors, who have dropped four in a row to fall to 8-20 heading into last night's game against the Golden State Warriors, on their five-game trip. He has appeared in only 10 games this season.

Made playoffs without him

The Raptors regrouped from a horrific 13-game losing streak last season and qualified for the post-season without Carter.

At first glance, a Carter for Ilgauskas and Miles swap makes sense.

The Cavs basically have given up on the year and could use a box-office attraction such as Carter to fill the many empty seats at the Gund Arena. Coincidentally, Carter is represented by IMG, which is based in Cleveland.

While both Ilgauskas and Miles have battled injuries, each brings a dimension the Raptors sorely lack.

Ilgauskas is a legitimate centre and when his game is on there aren't many centres better in the Eastern Conference.

Miles is an emerging star who is young and extremely athletic.

By FRANK ZICARELLI -- Toronto Sun

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Comments

  • team slickteam slick Ghost Barbarian ✭✭
    if vince carter would be traded to cleveland, then i would not get darius miles and zydrunas ilgauskus for him, Why? its like trading one damage piece for another. How long would you expect z to play before eventually breaking down? Yes, he may be a legitimate center, but so is antonio davis. If i would trade carter, it would have to include dajuan wagner, ricky davis and probably chris mihm for a vince carter and mamadyou n diaye trade.....makes sense wouldnt it, dajuan wagner brings the star quality and the scoring punch that toronto needs. Ricky davis can flat out score and would be a perfect compliment to dajuan wagner either as the starting 3 or off the bench and chris mihm could be the starting center for the raptors. Mihm is a decent center if he is provided the minutes. Plus with alvin williams being able to handle the point and is big enough to handle the shooting guards with his size (6'5), then that would allow wagner to play shooting guard on offense and point guard on defense. Throw in antonio davis into the mix and you have a bonafide or strong starting 5. Off the bench would be lamond murray, ricky davis, lindsay hunter, jerome williams and jelani mc coy which is also a solid bench unit. Makes sense doesnt it?
  • carshowcarshow The Generator PExer
    I am not surprised. The Raptors play-off run last year without VC proved they can excel without the high-flyer. Add to that Carter's injury woes, he is definitely on the way out.

    :spidy:
  • meleagant8meleagant8 Crimson Packer PExer
    team slick

    di naman kaya lugi ung cleveland dyan sa trade na yan?mukhang we're just looking kung paano maiiprove ung toronto...i doubt kung papayag ung cleveland na ibigay si wagner....plus ricky davis...considering na si VC e laging injured (2nd coming of Grant Hill?)
  • El_MajoEl_Majo Member PExer
    Originally posted by team slick
    if vince carter would be traded to cleveland, then i would not get darius miles and zydrunas ilgauskus for him, Why? its like trading one damage piece for another. How long would you expect z to play before eventually breaking down? Yes, he may be a legitimate center, but so is antonio davis. If i would trade carter, it would have to include dajuan wagner, ricky davis and probably chris mihm for a vince carter and mamadyou n diaye trade.....makes sense wouldnt it, dajuan wagner brings the star quality and the scoring punch that toronto needs. Ricky davis can flat out score and would be a perfect compliment to dajuan wagner either as the starting 3 or off the bench and chris mihm could be the starting center for the raptors. Mihm is a decent center if he is provided the minutes. Plus with alvin williams being able to handle the point and is big enough to handle the shooting guards with his size (6'5), then that would allow wagner to play shooting guard on offense and point guard on defense. Throw in antonio davis into the mix and you have a bonafide or strong starting 5. Off the bench would be lamond murray, ricky davis, lindsay hunter, jerome williams and jelani mc coy which is also a solid bench unit. Makes sense doesnt it?


    excuse me, ANTONIO DAVIS is not a pure Center. he's a Power Forward forced into being the big man in the middle. he was even glad when HAKEEM OLAJUWON came to Toronto. coz that means he's sliding back to his natural position.

    and don't underestimate Zydrunas Ilgauskas. he may not be as popular as other players in Cleveland, but he's their main man in the middle. look at his averages this year: 18 ppg, 8.4 rpg, 2 bpg, 1.7 apg, 40%FG, 77%FT. compare him to Chris Mihm who's smaller but heavier than him.
  • c0ngsterc0ngster Banned by Admin PExer
    ilgauskas and miles for carter, i say a fair trade.

    vince carter is so overrated. just like grant hill when he was still with the pistons.
  • BakafoolBakafool Member PExer
    boy. the media really gobbled this up. Glen Grunwald was interviewed and he said that Vince is "untradeable." I don't think Vince'll be traded anytime soon. But I like that fact that trade rumors are floating around. It might be the thing that'll wake Vince up.
  • 9ino9ino -=ProFesSoR DuNk=- PExer
    This trade ain't gonna happen due to some NBA rules.

    This year is the first year for VC's big contract, a huge salary jump. Carter is a BYC player since he started making the maximum salary this year. The trade as proposed won't work.
  • sixxxsixxx www.thehun.com PExer
    --->Cleveland probably wants to make the deal hoping that Carter is hurt and misses most of the rest of the season. They lose two contracts they don't want to deal with in Miles and Ilgauskas and get more ping pong balls, IMHO.

    It is pretty clear that both Cleveland and Denver are intentionally doing everything humanly possible to put their team in a position to LOSE games. Call it the LeBron Theorem if you like.

    But 9ino is right, this trade is next to impossible from happening. I don't see this deal happening unless Vince asked for a trade.:cool:
  • team slickteam slick Ghost Barbarian ✭✭
    Originally posted by El_Majo



    excuse me, ANTONIO DAVIS is not a pure Center. he's a Power Forward forced into being the big man in the middle. he was even glad when HAKEEM OLAJUWON came to Toronto. coz that means he's sliding back to his natural position.

    and don't underestimate Zydrunas Ilgauskas. he may not be as popular as other players in Cleveland, but he's their main man in the middle. look at his averages this year: 18 ppg, 8.4 rpg, 2 bpg, 1.7 apg, 40%FG, 77%FT. compare him to Chris Mihm who's smaller but heavier than him.

    i know z is putting up solid number this year, but how long can he last given the nba schedule, i think the only whole season he completed was during his rookie year. Yes, he may average both double figures in scoring and in rebounding but when it comes to his health, its still a big question mark. Besides, if it was chris mihm coming over, antonio davis would still handle the pf position which mean that chris mihm will be the starting center. Mihm was a scorer during his collegiate days in texas tech. And besides even john lucas was saying that mihm is a part of the rotation of the cleveland lineup and they were slowly integrating him into their offense.
  • team slickteam slick Ghost Barbarian ✭✭
    Originally posted by meleagant8
    team slick

    di naman kaya lugi ung cleveland dyan sa trade na yan?mukhang we're just looking kung paano maiiprove ung toronto...i doubt kung papayag ung cleveland na ibigay si wagner....plus ricky davis...considering na si VC e laging injured (2nd coming of Grant Hill?)

    mukhang lopsided ba? cleveland were willing to part with darius miles and z, so i guess they can spare that trade, pero realistically one of the big 3 of cleveland has to go its either wagner, davis or miles kac if ever they get lebron james, sino naman ang papalaruin nila rt? probably slide miles into the pf position? lebron playing the pg position? pwede then have wagner play the shooting guard position and let davis move back into the natural position which is the 3. Mas lugi ang cleveland talaga wen you look at it kac they dont need to trade for vince carter e........what they should do is to get quality bench or role players to better/strengthen their bench for next year since they would have a good first 5 on paper.
  • vince 15vince 15 mavs41nowitzki PExer
    Originally posted by c0ngster
    ilgauskas and miles for carter, i say a fair trade.

    vince carter is so overrated. just like grant hill when he was still with the pistons.

    carter may be overrated but grant hill is as good as people talk about him. he was a legit all-nba-1st-teamer and i still think that with healthy ankles, grant hill and tmac could form a pippen-pippen tandem.


    and regarding the trade rumor...it's just a rumor. besides, if the cavs were to trade for anybody, they wouldn't get a guard-forward. they already have miles and ricky davis. and then they're looking to draft lebron IF they get lucky in the lottery. if they want to become contenders quick, they have to stick with at least 3 of their 4 top guns. and if they get to draft lebron they'd have a starting lineup of...

    PG - lebron james
    SG - dajuan wagner
    SF - ricky davis/darius miles
    PF - tyrone hill/carlos boozer
    C - zydrunas ilgauskas

    it would be totally stupid to let go of their center and a POTENTIAL superstar in miles for a has-been like carter (i'm still hoping the guy could get back though coz he used to be my fave player). and it's too early to trade miles because he hasn't completely fit in with the team yet coz of his injury.




    :cow:
  • c0ngsterc0ngster Banned by Admin PExer
    Originally posted by vince 15
    carter may be overrated but grant hill is as good as people talk about him. he was a legit all-nba-1st-teamer and i still think that with healthy ankles, grant hill and tmac could form a pippen-pippen tandem.

    hill was all-nba first team once. he averaged just 21.6 points a game, and 19.6 during the playoffs in six seasons with detroit. if thats not being overrated, i dont know what is.
  • CLYCLY bummer PExer
    i dont think grant hill was overrated during his detroit days when he was healthy.

    basketball aint just about scoring. grant hill does so many things that dont get on the stats. his defense, leadership and ability to attract opponents make his teammates better.

    although he aint the same now in orlando. those ankles are still bothering him.

    about vince carter, im sure that toronto wished that carter was traded instead of T-MAC.

    they should trade carter. he is injury prone.
  • c0ngsterc0ngster Banned by Admin PExer
    Originally posted by CLY
    i dont think grant hill was overrated during his detroit days when he was healthy.

    basketball aint just about scoring. grant hill does so many things that dont get on the stats. his defense, leadership and ability to attract opponents make his teammates better.

    yes he did a lot of things for the pistons and basketball is more than just about scoring. but come on, during the playoffs, youre go to guy should step up and should want the ball more and score more. thats what makes a great player. grant hill never really lived up to all the hype. when he came out of college, the word on him was hes the next jordan. he even led in all star votes for a few years. but when it matters most in the playoffs, grant hills numbers dipped. the truly great ones step up, the overrated ones fold.

    extremely overrated.
  • BakafoolBakafool Member PExer
    Hmm.. I don't think Grant Hill is overrated, much less extremely overrated. Sure, he didn't live up to the hype of being the next Jordan, but then again, nobody does. His playoff numbers aren't too bad either. His playoff scoring, assist and rebounding averages are similar to his regular season averages. If anything, he's consistent, and that's another sign of a great player. To me, before he got injured, GH was the most versatile player to come along since Scottie Pippen.
  • c0ngsterc0ngster Banned by Admin PExer
    Originally posted by Bakafool
    Sure, he didn't live up to the hype of being the next Jordan, but then again, nobody does.

    but thats the definition of overrated- to overestimate the merits of; rate too highly. someone who couldnt live up to expectations.
    His playoff numbers aren't too bad either. His playoff scoring, assist and rebounding averages are similar to his regular season averages. If anything, he's consistent, and that's another sign of a great player.

    so when playoffs start, its enough that the go to guy maintains his regular season average?

    a great player takes the game in his hand, takes over the game when it matters most. read my earlier post. grant hill averaged less during the playoffs than in the regular season with detroit. how does that make him great? yes his playoff numbers arent bad, but they werent franchise player numbers.

    i understand you guys, everybody likes the nice guy and grant hill is the epitome of nice. a likable character, oozing with charisma. so the ordinary person cannot accept the fact that grant hill was, is overrated. but if youre looking at his game and analyze it thoroughly without bias, youd know what im talking about.

    vince carter, penny hardaway, grant hill, eddie jones, theyre all overrated.
  • jaypogijaypogi hmm... pogi ba talaga? PExer
    ain't gonna happen! :bop: :no: Carter
  • BakafoolBakafool Member PExer
    What you're saying doesn't really make any sense. You're saying that he's overrated because he did not meet expectations and the hype by not living up or reaching the iconic status of MJ which was unfairly placed upon his shoulders. If that's the case, then it means that a whole slew of great players are also overrated. I could even say that Kobe is overrated. We don't base Grant Hill on statistics and averages and certainly not on his niceness. If you're saying that maintaining his numbers in the playoffs isn't enough, then it also isn't enough for other so-called great players. Jason Kidd, Gary Payton and even Kobe's playoff averages are below their season averages. I can also say that Kevin Garnett is overrated. He's on his regular season averages and has failed to take over the game in the playoffs. Shaq too is just barely above his numbers in the post season. Even Shaq failed a few years ago to carry his team on his shoulders in the face of adversity. I'm certainly without bias when I say Grant Hill is not overrated. The fact is that he can play. He's consistent and his versatility is second to none. Hype is just hype. What you should do is look at the performance of a player, his importance to his team, how he fits in and executes the team's philosophy and his ability to make his teammates better. Grant Hill is all that. He plays well, he was the best player on the team in his Detroit days, and he made things so much easier for his teammates, just like Kevin Garnett. Too bad his injury has slowed him, but nontheless, his former brilliance still shows up from time to time.
  • CLYCLY bummer PExer
    vince carter, penny hardaway, grant hill, eddie jones, theyre all overrated.

    vince carter is really athletic and was built for basketball with his long arms and lean legs. but he is just lazy. does not work hard in rehab and was caught in some disco....dancing. you pay him millions of dollars and then this? for that he is overrated.....but i think if he works hard on his game and when he wants to be dominant, he really can.

    penny hardaway was really good when he was in orlando but when he got injured in phoenix. i think his knee was never the same again.

    he aint overrated because very few teams are after him. he is not a franchise player anymore.

    i think grant hill's numbers go down in the playoffs because opposing teams tend to focus and create their defensive game plan on him because he did not have enough quality players on the team who could step up. it is but normal to decrease on scoring and the assists go up.

    about eddie jones, i dont know anything. i have not watch any heat games in years. maybe his team sucks. but i heard they have been winning lately.
  • c0ngsterc0ngster Banned by Admin PExer
    Originally posted by Bakafool
    What you're saying doesn't really make any sense. You're saying that he's overrated because he did not meet expectations and the hype by not living up or reaching the iconic status of MJ which was unfairly placed upon his shoulders.

    why dont you go get a dictionary and look up the word overrated. if a person is rated too highly and he doesnt meet expectations, he or she is overrated. yes it is unfair, but if he was annointed to be the next jordan and he didnt become it, he is overrated. im not saying its his fault, i have never said its his fault, but thats the definition of the word overrated.

    seriously, look it up and read more.
    If you're saying that maintaining his numbers in the playoffs isn't enough, then it also isn't enough for other so-called great players. Jason Kidd, Gary Payton and even Kobe's playoff averages are below their season averages.

    from nba. com

    kobe averages 20.3 in the regular season and 20.8 in the playoffs, his numbers are up during the playoffs, dont forget the 3 championship rings and the many times he stepped up to win those.

    jason kidd averages 14.5 points, 6.4 rebounds, and 9.4 assists in the regular season and 16 points, 6.9 rebounds, and 9.5 assists in the playoffs and singlehandedly turned around a franchise synonymous to losing. not too shabby, isnt it.

    gary payton has 17,817 career points, 2,063 career steals, 7,223 career assists, 4,141 career rebounds and at 34, still one of the deadliest scorer and toughest defender in the nba.

    grant hills numbers? down during the playoffs.
    I can also say that Kevin Garnett is overrated. He's on his regular season averages and has failed to take over the game in the playoffs.

    no argument there.
    Shaq too is just barely above his numbers in the post season. Even Shaq failed a few years ago to carry his team on his shoulders in the face of adversity.

    ok. but are going to question his dominance and do you think hes overrated?
    The fact is that he can play.

    i never said he cant.
    What you should do is look at the performance of a player, his importance to his team, how he fits in and executes the team's philosophy and his ability to make his teammates better. Grant Hill is all that. He plays well, he was the best player on the team in his Detroit days, and he made things so much easier for his teammates, just like Kevin Garnett.

    he was all those, but he did not achieve what was expected of him, just like garnett.

    im telling you, get a dictionary and look up overrated.

    read the meaning of the word and absorb.
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