May nilalang daw ang Dios na dapat sambahin? Weh? - Page 2 | Realm of Thought | PinoyExchange

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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferdinand View Post
    Wala namang tutol na ISA LANG ang Diyos. Pag Diyos kasi ang usapan ang tinutukoy natin ay ang NATURE niya kay ang NATURE niya ay ISA LANG. Bogged down ka na naman kasi sa material thinking mo, hindi arithmetic ito, theology and philosophy ang usapan dito, metaphysics that deals with the nature of existence, kaya huwag mong ipasok ang arithmetic.

    Parang ang NATURE ng tao ay isa din lang, yung tinatawag nating HUMAN NATURE, tao sa kalikasan kaya isa lang ang human nature natin - HUMAN, o TAO. Kung ANO tayo, IYON tayo. Kaya ang tanong ay ANO ba tayo aso o tao sa kalikasan? ANO ba tayo halaman sa kalikasan o tao sa kalikasan ? ANO ba tayo Diyos sa kalikasan o tao sa kalikasan? Di ba ang sagot sa katanungan na ANO ang KALIKASAN natin ay palaging TAO? So ilan ba ang kalikasan ng tao, isa o dalawa o tatlo? Di ba ISA LANG? Itigil ko na diyan at baka malito ka pa, iyan na lang muna at isipin mo kung tama yang mga sinabi ko sa iyo, o may tutol ka.
    Akala ko ba ang Trinidad ninyo ay may tatlong persona - ang Ama, Espiritu; Cristo na tao; at Espiritu Santo na espiritu at sabi nyo, pantay-pantay sila sa kapangyarihan at karunungan at lahat ng bagay. Ang tatlong yan ay pumuporma ng IISANG Diyos, ayon sa into PERO i-define mo ang IISA o ALONE at tingnan nga natin kung applicable yang teorya, este, aral niyo! Please define ALONE, grammar police Ferdie!

    At Ferdie, hindi ako "tumututol" para sa sarili ko, kagaya mo. HINDI KO TINUTUTULAN ang mga sinasabi ni Cristo, hindi kagaya mo, gusto mong baguhin at itama. Hindi ka ba kinikilabutan? Mamaya me pumitik sa tenga mo, buti kung yan lang!

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    Akala ko ba ang Trinidad ninyo ay may tatlong persona - ang Ama, Espiritu; Cristo na tao; at Espiritu Santo na espiritu at sabi nyo, pantay-pantay sila sa kapangyarihan at karunungan at lahat ng bagay. Ang tatlong yan ay pumuporma ng IISANG Diyos, ayon sa into PERO i-define mo ang IISA o ALONE at tingnan nga natin kung applicable yang teorya, este, aral niyo! Please define ALONE, grammar police Ferdie!

    At Ferdie, hindi ako "tumututol" para sa sarili ko, kagaya mo. HINDI KO TINUTUTULAN ang mga sinasabi ni Cristo, hindi kagaya mo, gusto mong baguhin at itama. Hindi ka ba kinikilabutan? Mamaya me pumitik sa tenga mo, buti kung yan lang!
    Sang ayon ka ba tungkol sa sinabi ko sa kalikasan ng tao?

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferdinand View Post
    Sang ayon ka ba tungkol sa sinabi ko sa kalikasan ng tao?
    Eh hindi naman yan ang pinag-uusapan natin, ang pinag-uusapan natin ay nature of God VS nature of man.

    Alam natin ang Diyos ay espiritu. kapag sinabing Diyos, espiritu ang kalagayan Niya:

    Juan 4:24 Ang Dios ay Espiritu: at ang mga sa kaniya'y nagsisisamba ay kinakailangang magsisamba sa espiritu at sa katotohanan.

    Si Cristo ay IPINANGANAK NG TAO BILANG TAO:

    Lucas 1:35 At sumagot ang anghel, at sinabi sa kaniya, Bababa sa iyo ang Espiritu Santo, at lililiman ka ng kapangyarihan ng Kataastaasan: kaya naman ang banal na bagay na ipanganganak ay tatawaging Anak ng Dios.

    Galacia 4:4 “Datapuwa't nang dumating ang kapanahunan, ay sinugo ng Dios ang kaniyang Anak, na ipinanganak ng isang babae, na ipinanganak sa ilalim ng kautusan.”

    Mateo 1:18
    Ang pagkapanganak nga kay Jesucristo ay ganito: Nang si Maria na kaniyang ina ay magaasawa kay Jose, bago sila magsama ay nasumpungang siya'y nagdadalang-tao sa pamamagitan ng Espiritu Santo

    WALANG SINASABI SA BIBLIA NA SI CRISTO AY DATING ESPIRITUNG DIYOS NA NAGKATAWANG-TAO. Kung totoo ito ay DALAWA ang Diyos noon at hindi IISA, tulad ng sinabi ng Diyos na maraming beses sa biblia!!!

    Hindi maaaring espiritu at tao ang Diyos sapagka't sinabi na sa Banal na Kasulatan
    na ang Diyos ay hindi tao at ang tao ay hindi Diyos! (Numbers 23:19; Ezekiel 28:2; 9)

    Kaya yung sinabi mo ay IRRELEVANT sa pinag-uusapan natin! [/B]

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    Eh hindi naman yan ang pinag-uusapan natin, ang pinag-uusapan natin ay nature of God VS nature of man.

    Alam natin ang Diyos ay espiritu. kapag sinabing Diyos, espiritu ang kalagayan Niya:

    Juan 4:24 Ang Dios ay Espiritu: at ang mga sa kaniya'y nagsisisamba ay kinakailangang magsisamba sa espiritu at sa katotohanan.

    Si Cristo ay IPINANGANAK NG TAO BILANG TAO:

    Lucas 1:35 At sumagot ang anghel, at sinabi sa kaniya, Bababa sa iyo ang Espiritu Santo, at lililiman ka ng kapangyarihan ng Kataastaasan: kaya naman ang banal na bagay na ipanganganak ay tatawaging Anak ng Dios.

    Galacia 4:4 “Datapuwa't nang dumating ang kapanahunan, ay sinugo ng Dios ang kaniyang Anak, na ipinanganak ng isang babae, na ipinanganak sa ilalim ng kautusan.”

    Mateo 1:18
    Ang pagkapanganak nga kay Jesucristo ay ganito: Nang si Maria na kaniyang ina ay magaasawa kay Jose, bago sila magsama ay nasumpungang siya'y nagdadalang-tao sa pamamagitan ng Espiritu Santo

    WALANG SINASABI SA BIBLIA NA SI CRISTO AY DATING ESPIRITUNG DIYOS NA NAGKATAWANG-TAO. Kung totoo ito ay DALAWA ang Diyos noon at hindi IISA, tulad ng sinabi ng Diyos na maraming beses sa biblia!!!

    Hindi maaaring espiritu at tao ang Diyos sapagka't sinabi na sa Banal na Kasulatan
    na ang Diyos ay hindi tao at ang tao ay hindi Diyos! (Numbers 23:19; Ezekiel 28:2; 9)

    Kaya yung sinabi mo ay IRRELEVANT sa pinag-uusapan natin! [/B]
    Tinagalog ko lang yung salitang "nature" sa "kalikasan" nalito ka na agad? Inuunti-unti ko nga para magkaintindihan tayo, kaya sinimulan ko lang muna sa nature o kalikasan ng tao. Kung meron kang problema tungkol sa sinabi ko tungkol sa kalikasan ng tao, aba eh kontrahin mo. Kung wala, sabihin mong wala kang problema at sang-ayon ka.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferdinand View Post
    Tinagalog ko lang yung salitang "nature" sa "kalikasan" nalito ka na agad? Inuunti-unti ko nga para magkaintindihan tayo, kaya sinimulan ko lang muna sa nature o kalikasan ng tao. Kung meron kang problema tungkol sa sinabi ko tungkol sa kalikasan ng tao, aba eh kontrahin mo. Kung wala, sabihin mong wala kang problema at sang-ayon ka.
    Eto ang sabi mo oh:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferdinand
    Wala namang tutol na ISA LANG ang Diyos. Pag Diyos kasi ang usapan ang tinutukoy natin ay ang NATURE niya kay ang NATURE niya ay ISA LANG. Bogged down ka na naman kasi sa material thinking mo, hindi arithmetic ito, theology and philosophy ang usapan dito, metaphysics that deals with the nature of existence, kaya huwag mong ipasok ang arithmetic.

    Parang ang NATURE ng tao ay isa din lang, yung tinatawag nating HUMAN NATURE, tao sa kalikasan kaya isa lang ang human nature natin - HUMAN, o TAO. Kung ANO tayo, IYON tayo. Kaya ang tanong ay ANO ba tayo aso o tao sa kalikasan? ANO ba tayo halaman sa kalikasan o tao sa kalikasan ? ANO ba tayo Diyos sa kalikasan o tao sa kalikasan? Di ba ang sagot sa katanungan na ANO ang KALIKASAN natin ay palaging TAO? So ilan ba ang kalikasan ng tao, isa o dalawa o tatlo? Di ba ISA LANG? Itigil ko na diyan at baka malito ka pa, iyan na lang muna at isipin mo kung tama yang mga sinabi ko sa iyo, o may tutol ka.
    Mukhang IKAW ANG NALILITO dahil kung isa lang ang kalikasan ng tao, kagaya ng sabi mo, hindi siya maaaring maging Diyos dahil ang kalikasan nga ng Diyos ay Espiritu! AT KAHIT NA MAGAGAWA NG DIYOS NA GAWING TAO ANG SARILI NIYA AY HINDI NIYA GAGAWIN DAHIL:

    Malachi 3:6
    New Living Translation
    "I am the LORD, and I do not change. That is why you descendants of Jacob are not already destroyed.

    Ano pa ang sabi sa biblia?

    James 1:17
    Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, with whom there is no change or shifting shadow.

    Numbers 23:19
    "God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

    Psalm 102:27
    "But You are the same, And Your years will not come to an end.

    Si Cristo ba ay isang espiritu na nagkatawang tao?

    Hebrews 13:8
    New International Version
    Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

    WALANG sinabi sa biblia na NAGKATAWANG-TAO Siya, ang sabi ay IPINANGANAK SIYA NG TAO! :d

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    WALANG sinabi sa biblia na NAGKATAWANG-TAO Siya, ang sabi ay IPINANGANAK SIYA NG TAO! :d
    Kidlat naman sa tagal na natin dito both of us know kung anong part ng biblia ginagamit nila para patunayan na ipinanganak na tao ang dios. ito paalala ko sayo:



    From the accursed false apostle, John.
    Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning the Word already existed.
    The Word was with God,
    and the Word was God
    .
    2 He existed in the beginning with God.
    3 God created everything through him,
    and nothing was created except through him.
    4 The Word gave life to everything that was created,[a]
    and his life brought light to everyone.
    5 The light shines in the darkness,
    and the darkness can never extinguish it.[b]
    6 God sent a man, John the Baptist,[c] 7 to tell about the light so that everyone might believe because of his testimony. 8 John himself was not the light; he was simply a witness to tell about the light. 9 The one who is the true light, who gives light to everyone, was coming into the world

    10 He came into the very world he created, but the world didn’t recognize him. 11 He came to his own people, and even they rejected him. 12 But to all who believed him and accepted him, he gave the right to become children of God. 13 They are reborn—not with a physical birth resulting from human passion or plan, but a birth that comes from God.

    14 So the Word became human[d] and made his home among us. He was full of unfailing love and faithfulness.[e] And we have seen his glory, the glory of the Father’s one and only Son
    .

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by sophion View Post
    Kidlat naman sa tagal na natin dito both of us know kung anong part ng biblia ginagamit nila para patunayan na ipinanganak na tao ang dios. ito paalala ko sayo:



    From the accursed false apostle, John.
    Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning the Word already existed.


    "In the beginning was the word (NIV Version)"

    Let's read Rom. 1:2-3 to find that the holy scriptures prove that the "word" is referring to God's "promise" to send his son, which he "announced" before:

    "which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy scriptures, concerning his son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh"

    The term "word" in John 1:1 is not Christ himself but the "foreknowledge" or plan of God concerning Christ, lets read I pet. 1:20 that says,

    "foreknown, indeed, before the foundation of the world, he has been manifested in the last times for your sakes."

    This pronouncement of apostle peter that Christ was "foreknown before the foundation of the world" explain the statement in the gospel according to John "in the beginning was the word".

    Hence, what was there in the beginning was not Christ himself but God’s "word" or foreknowledge of him.


    "foreknowledge" is defined by the dictionary as "knowledge of a thing before it happens or exists."(Webster new universal unabridged dictionary)

    If Christ had already been existing before the foundation of the world, then there would not any need to "foreknow" him. Therefore the fact that Christ was foreknown before the foundation of the world disproves his so-called pre-existence.
    [QUOTED]
    The Word was with God,[/QUOTE]

    The clause “the word was with God” only approves that God and the Word are different from each other—that God is not the Word and vice versa, being with God in the beginning. The Word cannot be God in state of being because then it would appear that there are two Gods—the God with whom the word was and the Word itself.

    Lets read john 17:1,3 to prove this:

    “…Father, the hour has come. Glorify your son, that your son also may glorify you,… And this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.”

    Christ taught that the Father is the ONLY True God. Clearly, the True God, from whom the plan or thought to create Christ originated, is different from his plan.

    [QUOTED]
    and the Word was God
    .[/QUOTE]

    So why then did apostle John state in john 1:1 that "the Word was God"?

    This is to describe the quality of the Word, which belonged to God. It is because God is almighty or powerful (gen. 35:11) and so are his Words (Luke 1:37). thus, the "Word was God" indeed, but not in the sense that the "Word" is another divine being aside from God, but that it possesses the qualities and attributes of God.

    In John 1:1 the word "God" in the clause "the word was God" is used not as a noun but as an adjective. That is why in other renditions of the bible, such as Moffat and Godspeed, john 1:1 states: "the word was divine"…

    It is supported by bible scholars, one book says about this matter:

    “First, it should be noted that text itself shows that the word was ‘with God’, hence could not ‘be god’, that is, be the almighty god. (note also verse 2, which would be unnecessary if verse 1 actually showed the word to be god.)

    Additionally, the word for ‘God’ (greek, the-os) in its second occurrence in the verse is without the definite article ‘the’(greek, ho). Regarding this fact, Bishop Westcott coproducer of the noted wescott and hort greek text of the Christian scripture says: it is necessarily without the article (the’os not ho the’os) in as much as it describes the nature of the word, and does not identify his person.”
    (quoted from page 116 of AN IDOM-BOOK OF NEW TESTAMENT GREEK, by professor C.F.D Moule, 1953,ed.)” (AID TO BIBLE UNDERSTANDING, p.919)

    Another reason given by bible scholars why the word could not be God in state of being is that, in original Greek, the term for God (theos) in the clause “the word was God” is not preceded by the definite article “the” (ho) and hence it functions as an adjective.


    2 He existed in the beginning with God.
    3 God created everything through him,
    and nothing was created except through him.
    ^This says everything that was created are ALL UNDER CHRIST'S AUTHORITY! It is very clear that there is a God, a creator, who created all His creation THROUGH "him" (someone else, not God himself). As Christ said:

    John 14:6
    International Standard Version (ISV)
    6 Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

    10 He came into the very world he created, but the world didn’t recognize him. 11 He came to his own people, and even they rejected him. 12 But to all who believed him and accepted him, he gave the right to become children of God. 13 They are reborn—not with a physical birth resulting from human passion or plan, but a birth that comes from God.
    NIV Version:

    10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.

    ^What is "his own"? The bible says:

    Hebrews 2:17
    New International Version
    For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.

    Hebrews 2:17 NLT version:

    Hebrews 2:17
    New Living Translation
    Therefore, it was necessary for him to be made in every respect like us, his brothers and sisters, so that he could be our merciful and faithful High Priest before God. Then he could offer a sacrifice that would take away the sins of the people.

    12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

    14 So the Word became human[d] and made his home among us. He was full of unfailing love and faithfulness.[e] And we have seen his glory, the glory of the Father’s one and only Son
    .
    What does the clause "and the word became flesh" mean then in john 1:14?

    The "Word" which was only a thought or plan in the beginning was fulfilled when Mary gave birth to Jesus (gal.4:4) who is "truly man" (I Tim. 2:5) or "indeed flesh" (gen. 6:3)

    We should not forget that it was the "Word" which became flesh and not God himself. John 1:1,14 therefore does not in any way teach that God became man or that Christ is God incarnated.

  8. #28
    ^ matagal ko na ring alam iyang inc explanation, kidlat. Ang lamang nila eh meron silang actual bible na nagsasabing "He came into the very world he created".

    Kelangan talaga pagawa na kayo ng bible ninyo na nagsasabi ng mga opinion ninyo.

    ◄ John 1:1 ►

    New Manalo Version
    In the beginning was the Plan, and the Plan was with God, and the Plan was God's idea.



    ayos ba?

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by sophion View Post
    ^ matagal ko na ring alam iyang inc explanation, kidlat. Ang lamang nila eh meron silang actual bible na nagsasabing "He came into the very world he created".

    Kelangan talaga pagawa na kayo ng bible ninyo na nagsasabi ng mga opinion ninyo.

    ◄ John 1:1 ►

    New Manalo Version
    In the beginning was the Plan, and the Plan was with God, and the Plan was God's idea.



    ayos ba?
    There were some verses that were wrongly translated in some bible versions due to translators' false beliefs. Remember that verses in the bible should not contradict each other. Example:

    Hebrews 1:8 But about the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of Your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, Your God, has placed You above Your companions by anointing You with the oil of joy.”

    Verse 1:8 is saying thathat Jesus Christ is God, and yet verse 1:9 is saying that the "God-Son" has a God. But verses in Isaiah say otherwise:

    Isaiah 45:5 I am the Lord, and there is no other;
    apart from me there is no God.
    I will strengthen you,
    though you have not acknowledged me,

    They cannot be contradicting! We do not need to "make our own bible", the bible versions we have now are more than enough to give us the truth!

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    They cannot be contradicting! We do not need to "make our own bible", the bible versions we have now are more than enough to give us the truth!
    Kaso all the translations agree that "the Word was God". malayo sa opinion ninyo na "the Plan was God's idea".

    ano lahat sila mali?

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by sophion View Post
    Kaso all the translations agree that "the Word was God". malayo sa opinion ninyo na "the Plan was God's idea".

    ano lahat sila mali?
    What is really the "Word" or "Verbo"? Although it pertains to Christ, it is not Christ Himself!

    The "Word" only pertains to Christ as in a plan of a house pertains to a house but is not the house itself! It only becomes THE house when it is ALREADY BUILT, as in the Word became Christ when He was born!


    Ephesians 1:9-11
    NLT
    9 God has now revealed to us his mysterious plan regarding Christ, a plan to fulfill his own good pleasure. 10 And this is the plan: At the right time he will bring everything together under the authority of Christ—everything in heaven and on earth. 11 Furthermore, because we are united with Christ, we have received an inheritance from God,c for he chose us in advance, and he makes everything work out according to his plan.

  12. #32
    ^ alam mo wala naman sinabing the Word was God's plan. opinion nyo lang yan.

    Instead that accursed John referred to the Word as a person.

    "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us"

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    Mukhang IKAW ANG NALILITO dahil kung isa lang ang kalikasan ng tao, kagaya ng sabi mo, hindi siya maaaring maging Diyos dahil ang kalikasan nga ng Diyos ay Espiritu! AT KAHIT NA MAGAGAWA NG DIYOS NA GAWING TAO ANG SARILI NIYA AY HINDI NIYA GAGAWIN
    Si kidlat basta makakontra lang kahit hindi iniintindi ang sinabi sa kanya. Talaga namang hindi maaaring maging Diyos ang tao, dahil hindi kalikasan ng tao ang maging Diyos, wala sa kalikasan ng tao iyon. Sino ba ang nagsabi sa iyo na puwede? Hindi ako at wala akong kakilalang katoliko ang magsasabi sa iyo niyan. Malamang as usual, minis-interpret mo lang ang sinabi ko. Mahilig kasi kayo sa ganyang taktika.

    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    Malachi 3:6
    New Living Translation
    "I am the LORD, and I do not change. That is why you descendants of Jacob are not already destroyed.

    Ano pa ang sabi sa biblia?

    James 1:17
    Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, with whom there is no change or shifting shadow.
    No argument diyan

    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    Numbers 23:19
    "God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?
    Ilang beses na ipinaliwanag sa iyo iyan, Ang ibig sabihin niyan ay ang Diyos hindi tulad ng tao na nagsisinungaling, o nagbabago, hindi ibig sabihin niyan na hindi kaya ng Diyos na magkatawang tao i walang balak na magkatawang tao.

    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    Psalm 102:27
    "But You are the same, And Your years will not come to an end.

    Si Cristo ba ay isang espiritu na nagkatawang tao?
    Hebrews 13:8
    New International Version
    Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

    WALANG sinabi sa biblia na NAGKATAWANG-TAO Siya, ang sabi ay IPINANGANAK SIYA NG TAO! :d
    Di ba Diyos lang ang the same yesterday, today, and forever? Intindihin mo yang maigi, ang ibig sabihin niyan ay eternal, outside of time and space, that is a being that does not change, and there is no being that does not change unless that being is God.

    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    [B] Alam natin ang Diyos ay espiritu. kapag sinabing Diyos, espiritu ang kalagayan Niya
    Kaya nga ba ang gusto ko sa usapan ay dahan dahan at hindi patalon talon, kasi we always go in circles. Nasa definition pa lang ako ng mga terms para meron tayong point of reference. Ang sinasabi ko ay katangian at hindi kalagayan. Saka nasa tao pa lang tayo huwag mo munang ipasok ang kalagayan ng Diyos dahil nasa definition pa lang tayo ng KALIKASAN or NATURE ng tao, hindi "kalagayan."

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by sophion View Post
    ^ alam mo wala naman sinabing the Word was God's plan. opinion nyo lang yan.

    Instead that accursed John referred to the Word as a person.

    "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us"
    BOOM! then you are understanding that the Word is a person, not God. At least me progress ka sa pag-unawa.

    So how do you undertand that the "Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us?"

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferdinand View Post
    Si kidlat basta makakontra lang kahit hindi iniintindi ang sinabi sa kanya. Talaga namang hindi maaaring maging Diyos ang tao, dahil hindi kalikasan ng tao ang maging Diyos, wala sa kalikasan ng tao iyon. Sino ba ang nagsabi sa iyo na puwede? Hindi ako at wala akong kakilalang katoliko ang magsasabi sa iyo niyan. Malamang as usual, minis-interpret mo lang ang sinabi ko. Mahilig kasi kayo sa ganyang taktika.
    Kaya nga, HINDI PUWEDE yang sinasabi mong "totoong Diyos at totoong Tao"! Hindi pwedeng Diyos and Tao at the same time si Cristo, gets mo na??? Ngayon, kung ang iri-reason mo na naman ay yung sinasabi mong "hinubad ni Cristo ang pagka-Diyos", HINDI NGA MAAARI YAN DAHIL ANG KALIKASAN NG DIYOS AY HINDI TAO, ayon na rin sa yo! HINDI NGA NAGBABAGO ANG DIYOS kaya hindi pwedeng "huhubarin" lang Niya ang pagka-Diyos! Gets mo na rin???


    Ilang beses na ipinaliwanag sa iyo iyan, Ang ibig sabihin niyan ay ang Diyos hindi tulad ng tao na nagsisinungaling, o nagbabago, hindi ibig sabihin niyan na hindi kaya ng Diyos na magkatawang tao i walang balak na magkatawang tao.
    Eh opinion nyo nga lang yan! Pwede namang sabihin ng Diyos na HINDI SIYA sinungaling, bakit padadaanin pa Niya sa pagka-tao??? O kaya sabihin Niyang "hindi ako sinungaling kagaya ng tao"! Ang sinabi Niya - hindi siya tao! Wala rin akong sinabi sa yo na hindi kaya ng Diyos na magkatawang-tao. Kung ginusto ng Diyos na magkatawang-tao Siya, hindi na Niya kailangan ng Anak na Tao! It is very obvious na GINAWANG TAO ng Diyos si Cristo at may dahilan kung bakit:

    Hebrews 2;17
    New International Version
    For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.
    [/INDENT]

    Di ba Diyos lang ang the same yesterday, today, and forever? Intindihin mo yang maigi, ang ibig sabihin niyan ay eternal, outside of time and space, that is a being that does not change, and there is no being that does not change unless that being is God.

    Ang Diyos does not change, yan ang sabi sa biblia! Si Cristo ay taong dumating sa lupa noon, ngayon ay tao pa rin Siya sa kanang kamay ng Kanyang Ama sa langit at MAGPAKAILANMAN, TAO SIYA, sapagka't hindi na Siya mamamatay. Maging ang mga taong nasa Kanya ay magkakaroon ng eternal life sa pagbabalik Niya dito sa lupa! Yan ang pangako!


    Kaya nga ba ang gusto ko sa usapan ay dahan dahan at hindi patalon talon, kasi we always go in circles. Nasa definition pa lang ako ng mga terms para meron tayong point of reference. Ang sinasabi ko ay katangian at hindi kalagayan. Saka nasa tao pa lang tayo huwag mo munang ipasok ang kalagayan ng Diyos dahil nasa definition pa lang tayo ng KALIKASAN or NATURE ng tao, hindi "kalagayan."

    O sige - definition of terms:


    NATURE (KALIKASAN):
    noun: nature; plural noun: natures
    1. the phenomena of the physical world collectively, including plants, animals, the landscape, and other features and products of the earth, as opposed to humans or human creations.
    "the breathtaking beauty of nature"
    synonyms: the natural world, Mother Nature, Mother Earth, the environment; More
    the physical force regarded as causing and regulating these phenomena.
    "it is impossible to change the laws of nature"
    2. the basic or inherent features of something, especially when seen as characteristic of it.
    "helping them to realize the nature of their problems"
    synonyms: essence, inherent/basic/essential qualities, inherent/basic/essential features, character, complexion More
    the innate or essential qualities or character of a person or animal.

    "it's not in her nature to listen to advice"
    synonyms: character, personality, disposition, temperament, makeup, psyche, constitution
    "it was not in her nature to argue"
    inborn or hereditary characteristics as an influence on or determinant of personality.


    CONDITION (KALAGAYAN):
    noun
    1. the state of something, especially with regard to its appearance, quality, or working order.
    "the wiring is in good condition"
    synonyms: state, shape, order
    "check the condition of your wiring"
    2. the circumstances affecting the way in which people live or work, especially with regard to their safety or well-being.
    "harsh working and living conditions"
    synonyms: circumstances, surroundings, environment, situation, setup, setting, habitat
    "they lived in appalling conditions"

    WHAT NOW FERDIE???

  16. #36
    Theology ang usapan dito kid hindi ka basta basta huhugot sa diksyonaryo. Kailangan natin yung theological dictonary dahil beings and nature of existence ang usapan kaya huwag kang gagamit ng ambiguous definitions.

    Simple lang ang sinasabi ko kid, ang kalikasan ng tao ay tao, ang kalikasan ng halaman ay halaman ang kalikasan ng isda ay isda ang kalikasan ng Diyos ay Diyos, kaya huwag mong wag mong sabihin sa akin ang kalagayan ng Diyos dahil kalikasan ang usapan.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    BOOM! then you are understanding that the Word is a person, not God. At least me progress ka sa pag-unawa.

    isnt god a person?

    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    So how do you undertand that the "Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us?"
    There was a person whose code name is "Word" who transformed into a human being and lived among the people of earth.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferdinand View Post
    Theology ang usapan dito kid hindi ka basta basta huhugot sa diksyonaryo. Kailangan natin yung theological dictonary dahil beings and nature of existence ang usapan kaya huwag kang gagamit ng ambiguous definitions.

    Simple lang ang sinasabi ko kid, ang kalikasan ng tao ay tao, ang kalikasan ng halaman ay halaman ang kalikasan ng isda ay isda ang kalikasan ng Diyos ay Diyos, kaya huwag mong wag mong sabihin sa akin ang kalagayan ng Diyos dahil kalikasan ang usapan.
    SO BAKIT MO NGA SINASABING SI CRISTO AY TOTOONG TAO AT TOTOONG DIYOS KUNG GANYAN DIN LANG ANG POINT MO??? MERON BANG SABAY NA NAKIKITA AT HINDI NAKIKITA - FLESH AND SPIRIT AT THE SAME TIME???

    OK, ayon sa biblia:


    Romans 1:20
    New Living Translation
    For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.

    ^SO PAANO MO MAIKUKUMPARA YAN SA KALIKASAN NG TAO NA TAO, AYON NA RIN SA YO???

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by sophion View Post
    isnt god a person?
    OF COURSE NOT! That is just a human invention of those who believe that there are 3 persons to a triune God! Show me a bible verse attributing God as a "person"!

    There was a person whose code name is "Word" who transformed into a human being and lived among the people of earth.
    If there was a "person" that is really a "god" and He transformed into a human being while the "other person" remained spirit, then there are 2 Gods - then you are making the true God a liar for He declared that He ALONE is God, there is no other God before Him and He knows no other God except from Himself! And where is the Holy Spirit there?

    Si Ferdie pa-define nang pa-define sa akin ng kung anu-anong terms, yung iisang hinihiling kong i-define niya - yung ALONE, hanggang ngayon DINIDEDMA!!!

  20. #40
    ^ iyan kasing bwiset na biblia ninyo malinaw na sinabing "the Word was God" eh. kaya nga ako umalis sa pagkachristiano dahil sa gulo ng libro na yan! di mapagkatiwalaan.

    pinaka-ok lang sa biblia eh iyung mga aral ni jeeezus about love and peace.
    with those regards I FOLLOW JEEEZUS!

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