Isaiah's Bird of Prey: Cyrus the Great or Felix Manalo? - Page 3 | Realm of Thought | PinoyExchange

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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by sophion View Post
    כֹּה-אָמַר יְהוָה, לִמְשִׁיחוֹ לְכוֹרֶשׁ אֲשֶׁר-הֶחֱזַקְתִּי בִימִינוֹ לְרַד-לְפָנָיו גּוֹיִם

    Perush Yeshaya 45
    The fragment Yeshaya 45 verses 1-7:
    כֹּה-אָמַר יְהוָה, לִמְשִׁיחוֹ לְכוֹרֶשׁ אֲשֶׁר-הֶחֱזַקְתִּי בִימִינוֹ לְרַד-לְפָנָיו גּוֹיִם, וּמָתְנֵי מְלָכִים, אֲפַתֵּחַ--לִפְתֹּחַ לְפָנָיו דְּלָתַיִם, וּשְׁעָרִים לֹא יִסָּגֵרוּ. אֲנִי לְפָנֶיךָ אֵלֵךְ, וַהֲדוּרִים אושר (אֲיַשֵּׁר); דַּלְתוֹת נְחוּשָׁה אֲשַׁבֵּר, וּבְרִיחֵי בַרְזֶל אֲגַדֵּעַ. וְנָתַתִּי לְךָ אוֹצְרוֹת חֹשֶׁךְ, וּמַטְמֻנֵי מִסְתָּרִים: לְמַעַן תֵּדַע, כִּי-אֲנִי יְהוָה הַקּוֹרֵא בְשִׁמְךָ--אֱלֹהֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל. לְמַעַן עַבְדִּי יַעֲקֹב, וְיִשְׂרָאֵל בְּחִירִי; וָאֶקְרָא לְךָ בִּשְׁמֶךָ, אֲכַנְּךָ וְלֹא יְדַעְתָּנִי. אֲנִי יְהוָה וְאֵין עוֹד, זוּלָתִי אֵין אֱלֹהִים; אֲאַזֶּרְךָ, וְלֹא יְדַעְתָּנִי. לְמַעַן יֵדְעוּ, מִמִּזְרַח-שֶׁמֶשׁ וּמִמַּעֲרָבָה, כִּי-אֶפֶס, בִּלְעָדָי: אֲנִי יְהוָה, וְאֵין עוֹד. יוֹצֵר אוֹר וּבוֹרֵא חֹשֶׁךְ, עֹשֶׂה שָׁלוֹם וּבוֹרֵא רָע; אֲנִי יְהוָה, עֹשֶׂה כָל-אֵלֶּה

    The last verse appears in our list. The English Standard Version is as follows:

    Thus says the Lord to phis anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have grasped, to subdue nations before him and to loose the belts of kings, to open doors before him that gates may not be closed: “I will go before you and level the exalted places, I will break in pieces the doors of bronze and cut through the bars of iron, I will give you the treasures of darkness and the hoards in secret places, that you may know that it is I, the Lord, the God of Israel, who call you by your name. For the sake of my servant Jacob, and Israel my chosen, I call you by your name, I name you, though you did not know me. I am the Lord, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I equip you, though you did not know me, that people may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the Lord, and there is no other. I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the Lord, who does all these things.

    There is no Messiah in the verse!

  2. #42

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    There is no Messiah in the verse!
    kasasabi mo lang na מְשִׁיח ang salitang messiah eh at kitang kita mo namang nandun iyun sa mismong SALITA NG DIOS, which is hebrew hindi english


    kayat tama nang palusot. talo ka talaga, fwend.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferdinand View Post
    messiah = anointed = christos
    Nope. Si Satanas nga was once an annointed cherub, Messiah ba siya? Ang ibig sabihin ng Messiah or Christ ay SAVIOR! Is Satan a savior?

    Ezekiel 28:14 “You were the anointed cherub who [g]covers,
    And I placed you there.
    You were on the holy mountain of God;
    You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
    15 “You were blameless in your ways
    From the day you were created
    Until unrighteousness was found in you.
    16 “By the abundance of your trade
    [h]You were internally filled with violence,
    And you sinned;
    Therefore I have cast you as profane
    From the mountain of God.
    And I have destroyed you, O [i]covering cherub,
    From the midst of the stones of fire.

    17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
    You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor.
    I cast you to the ground;
    I put you before kings,
    That they may see you.
    18 “By the multitude of your iniquities,
    In the unrighteousness of your trade
    You profaned your sanctuaries.
    Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
    It has consumed you,
    And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
    In the eyes of all who see you.
    19 “All who know you among the peoples
    Are appalled at you;
    You have become [j]terrified
    And you will cease to be forever.”’”

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by sophion View Post
    kasasabi mo lang na מְשִׁיח ang salitang messiah eh at kitang kita mo namang nandun iyun sa mismong SALITA NG DIOS, which is hebrew hindi english


    kayat tama nang palusot. talo ka talaga, fwend.
    Ang kitang-kita, לִמְשִׁיחוֹ is not מְשִׁיח as there is not her.

    Wehh, hindi naman ako nakikipag-contest sa yo fwend. You are a winner in your own mind, kung saan ka masaya, hindi ko babasagin ang trip mo

    Porke Israel ang unang Bayan ng Diyos, yun daw ang salita ng Diyos. Ang lahat ng wika ay salita ng Diyos, Siya ang nagbigay nyan mula pa noong sirain Niya ang tore ng Bebel.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    Nope. Si Satanas nga was once an annointed cherub, Messiah ba siya? Ang ibig sabihin ng Messiah or Christ ay SAVIOR! Is Satan a savior?

    Ezekiel 28:14 “You were the anointed cherub who [g]covers,
    And I placed you there.
    You were on the holy mountain of God;
    You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
    15 “You were blameless in your ways
    From the day you were created
    Until unrighteousness was found in you.
    16 “By the abundance of your trade
    [h]You were internally filled with violence,
    And you sinned;
    Therefore I have cast you as profane
    From the mountain of God.
    And I have destroyed you, O [i]covering cherub,
    From the midst of the stones of fire.

    17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
    You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor.
    I cast you to the ground;
    I put you before kings,
    That they may see you.
    18 “By the multitude of your iniquities,
    In the unrighteousness of your trade
    You profaned your sanctuaries.
    Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
    It has consumed you,
    And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
    In the eyes of all who see you.
    19 “All who know you among the peoples
    Are appalled at you;
    You have become [j]terrified
    And you will cease to be forever.”’”
    Pinahihirapan na naman ni kidlat ang sarili niya. Simple lang naman ang ibig sabihin ng messiah, ibig sabihin ay elected, designated, appointed with authority. Lahat ng kings ng Judah ay tinatawag na messiah, pati na rin ang mga priests and prophets dahil anointed sila with authority. Kaya ang term na messiah ay applicable sa kings, priests and prophets, si Jesus ay ang lahat na iyan, priest, king and prophet.

    Si Cyrus ay elected, or anointed, pinili ng Diyos na tagapagligtas ng Israel. Kung ang isang anointed ng Diyos ay maging masama ay walang kabuluhan sa term na messiah or anointed dahil lahat ng kings ng Judah ay anointed, at dalawang kings lang ng Judah ang naging mabuting kings. Ang pagiging masama ni Luciper ay walang kabuluhan sa pagiging anointed niya.

    Now throughout the Prophetic books there are MESSIAHNIC PROPHECIES that can be, and properly, attributed to Jesus but that is a different kind of saving prophecies. Those prophecies do not take away the messianic title of Cyrus, since his job is to be God’s instrument to liberate Judah from the hands of the Babylonian captivity. Jesus messianic title is the liberation of not just Israel and Judah but of all gentile nations, ALL PEOPLE OF ALL TIME from powers of Satan himself the power of sin and death.


    Isaiah 45

    Cyrus, God’s Instrument
    Thus says the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have grasped to subdue nations before him and strip kings of their robes, to open doors before him—and the gates shall not be closed: I will go before you and level the mountains,[a] I will break in pieces the doors of bronze and cut through the bars of iron, 3 I will give you the treasures of darkness and riches hidden in secret places, so that you may know that it is I, the Lord, the God of Israel, who call you by your name. 4 For the sake of my servant Jacob, and Israel my chosen, I call you by your name, I surname you, though you do not know me. 5 I am the Lord, and there is no other; besides me there is no god. I arm you, though you do not know me, 6 so that they may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is no one besides me; I am the Lord, and there is no other.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    Ang kitang-kita, לִמְשִׁיחוֹ is not מְשִׁיח as there is not her.
    "his messiah" is not the same as "messiah". hanep ka naman sa logic, fwend.

    talo ka talaga kidlat. palit ka na ng relehiyon!

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    Nope. Si Satanas nga was once an annointed cherub, Messiah ba siya?
    alam mo the word "messiah" is just the western way of pronouncing the hebrew word "moschiah" which when literally translated means "annointed".

    naintindihan mo ba?

  9. #49
    ^^^ Ang Gusto kasi ni kidlat si Jesus lang ang messiah. Mahilig sa narrow definition ang mga INC.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferdinand View Post
    ^^^ Ang Gusto kasi ni kidlat si Jesus lang ang messiah. Mahilig sa narrow definition ang mga INC.
    Hindi lahat ng anointed ay messiah, kagaya ni Satanas! Sa context na gusto nyong palabasin, kelangan ang exact word na messiah. E wala nga dyan sa inilatag ni Sophion! Kahit magkampi pa kayo ay WALEY ang word na Messiah!

    Paano magiging messiah ng Israel si Cyrus ay PAGANO yan? God anointed him for the sole purpose of freeing the Israelites from Babylon dahil baka dyan pa maipanganak si Cristo sa Babylon ah hindi pede yun!

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by sophion View Post
    "his messiah" is not the same as "messiah". hanep ka naman sa logic, fwend.

    talo ka talaga kidlat. palit ka na ng relehiyon!
    Kahit anong gawin mo ay WALEY nga diyan sa inilatag mo! Nagpipilit ka eh, yun ngang angel bilang messenger hirap na hirap kang tanggapin kahit nasa dictionary at biblia. Ikaw, WALA dyan sa pruweba mo! Magpalit ka na ng damit!

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by sophion View Post
    alam mo the word "messiah" is just the western way of pronouncing the hebrew word "moschiah" which when literally translated means "annointed".

    naintindihan mo ba?
    O e asan??? Ilatag ang ebidins, panay ang explain mo e ALA nga!!! HINDI LAHAT NG ANOINTED AY MESSIAH, LIKE SATANAS!

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    O e asan??? Ilatag ang ebidins, panay ang explain mo e ALA nga!!! HINDI LAHAT NG ANOINTED AY MESSIAH, LIKE SATANAS!

    lahat ng מְשִׁיח ay messiah. so guess what kung tinawag na מְשִׁיח si satanas eh di messiah din yun.



    Cyrus the Great is unconditionally praised in the Jewish sources. It is likely that, after the Persian conquest of Babylon, Cyrus had commenced his relationship with the Jewish leaders in exile,[2] and that he later was considered as a messiah sent by God
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_...t_in_the_Bible


    so sorry ka na lang pero talagang messiah si cyrus. huwag ka nang magmarunong, kidlat, wala ka talagang panalo. buti pa hanap ka na lang ng ibang relehiyon at makakatipid ka pa!

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by sophion View Post
    lahat ng מְשִׁיח ay messiah. so guess what kung tinawag na מְשִׁיח si satanas eh di messiah din yun.



    Cyrus the Great is unconditionally praised in the Jewish sources. It is likely that, after the Persian conquest of Babylon, Cyrus had commenced his relationship with the Jewish leaders in exile,[2] and that he later was considered as a messiah sent by God
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_...t_in_the_Bible


    so sorry ka na lang pero talagang messiah si cyrus. huwag ka nang magmarunong, kidlat, wala ka talagang panalo. buti pa hanap ka na lang ng ibang relehiyon at makakatipid ka pa!
    Nahahabag talaga ako sayo, fwend, mukhang obsession mo lang na "itumba" ako! Dapat inuna mong sabihin yan, time's up na para sa yo!

    ANG HINAHANAP KO AY YUNG NAKASULAT SA BIBLIA at hindi yung "and that he later was considered as a messiah...". Malinaw naman sa sinabi mo na gawa-gawa lang yan ng mga nakarelasyon nyang Jewish leaders in exile! Ilatag mo yung galing sa biblia, di ba yan ang usapan?

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    Nahahabag talaga ako sayo, fwend, mukhang obsession mo lang na "itumba" ako! Dapat inuna mong sabihin yan, time's up na para sa yo!
    my obsession here is to straighten the facts that religions are trying to twist.

    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    ANG HINAHANAP KO AY YUNG NAKASULAT SA BIBLIA at hindi yung "and that he later was considered as a messiah...". Malinaw naman sa sinabi mo na gawa-gawa lang yan ng mga nakarelasyon nyang Jewish leaders in exile! Ilatag mo yung galing sa biblia, di ba yan ang usapan?
    Huy ano ka ba eh ilang beses ko na ipinakita sayo ang nakasulat sa biblia in the original hebrew language na messiah talaga si cyrus. kaya lang naman sinabing "later" kasi later na sa biblia tinawag na messiah si cyrus...45 chapters into the book of Isaiah. gets mo na?

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    Nahahabag talaga ako sayo, fwend, mukhang obsession mo lang na "itumba" ako!
    Huwag mo namang isipin na gusto lang kitang ma-scoran. kahit papaano gusto ko rin namang makatulong sa kapwa ko. biruin mo kapag natulungan kitang maliwanagan eh di instead of you spending countless hours and over $2000 a year on an empty promise eh you can instead spend all that time and money for your kids, if you have one.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by sophion View Post
    Huwag mo namang isipin na gusto lang kitang ma-scoran. kahit papaano gusto ko rin namang makatulong sa kapwa ko. biruin mo kapag natulungan kitang maliwanagan eh di instead of you spending countless hours and over $2000 a year on an empty promise eh you can instead spend all that time and money for your kids, if you have one.
    Ambait mo naman, baka kunin ka ni Lord! I have two very handsome, talented and intelligent boys, ako pa nga ang nanghihingi sa kanila, yan ang biyayang hindi mapapantayan ng $2K a year!

  18. #58
    Basta money involved, soul salvation for sale yan na same same sa mga
    so much na scattered groups ngayon while very revealed sa isaiah na
    free naman.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    Hindi lahat ng anointed ay messiah, kagaya ni Satanas! Sa context na gusto nyong palabasin, kelangan ang exact word na messiah. E wala nga dyan sa inilatag ni Sophion! Kahit magkampi pa kayo ay WALEY ang word na Messiah!

    Paano magiging messiah ng Israel si Cyrus ay PAGANO yan? God anointed him for the sole purpose of freeing the Israelites from Babylon dahil baka dyan pa maipanganak si Cristo sa Babylon ah hindi pede yun!
    Si kidlat nagtatanga-tangahan.

    "Hindi lahat ng anointed ay messiah"

    Para na ring sinabi mo na hindi lahat ng messiah ay messiah or hindi lahat ng anointed ay anointed, or hindi lahat ng elected ay elected. Parang si Menorah, totally is not the same as completely. Anointed means messiah, kid!

    Saka paanong hindi magiging messiah si Cyrus eh tinawag na ngang "anointed". Two sentences lang KINONTRA NO NA AGAD ANG SARILI MO! Yung isa mong sentence ayaw mong maniwala na messiah si Cyrus dahil pagano siya. Tapos yung sumunod na sentence mo inamin mo na anointed siya "for the sole purpose of freeing the Israelites from Babylon"! Ano ba ang ibig sabihin ng "anointed"? Hindi ba "messiah"?

    lim-šî-ḥōw = to his anointed= 4899 [e] = mashiach: anointed
    3 Cyrus as commissioned by ׳י, מְשִׁיחוֺ Isaiah 45:1.

    http://biblehub.com/hebrew/4899.htm

    Ano pa ang ipinuputok ng butse mo? Saka kahit pagano iyang si Cyrus, siya ang nagligtas sa Judah from Babylonian Captivity, siya ang pinili ng Diyos na savior ng Israel from Babylon. Try doing a word study kid, find out how they use "messiah" "anointed" in the Bible baka sakaling magising ka sa brainwashing sa iyo ng INC.
    Last edited by Ferdinand; Jun 8, 2017 at 08:30 AM.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferdinand View Post
    Si kidlat nagtatanga-tangahan.

    "Hindi lahat ng anointed ay messiah"

    Para na ring sinabi mo na hindi lahat ng messiah ay messiah or hindi lahat ng anointed ay anointed, or hindi lahat ng elected ay elected. Parang si Menorah, totally is not the same as completely. Anointed means messiah, kid!

    Saka paanong hindi magiging messiah si Cyrus eh tinawag na ngang "anointed". Two sentences lang KINONTRA NO NA AGAD ANG SARILI MO! Yung isa mong sentence ayaw mong maniwala na messiah si Cyrus dahil pagano siya. Tapos yung sumunod na sentence mo inamin mo na anointed siya "for the sole purpose of freeing the Israelites from Babylon"! Ano ba ang ibig sabihin ng "anointed"? Hindi ba "messiah"?

    lim-šî-ḥōw = to his anointed= 4899 [e] = mashiach: anointed
    3 Cyrus as commissioned by ׳י, מְשִׁיחוֺ Isaiah 45:1.

    http://biblehub.com/hebrew/4899.htm

    Ano pa ang ipinuputok ng butse mo? Saka kahit pagano iyang si Cyrus, siya ang nagligtas sa Judah from Babylonian Captivity, siya ang pinili ng Diyos na savior ng Israel from Babylon. Try doing a word study kid, find out how they use "messiah" "anointed" in the Bible baka sakaling magising ka sa brainwashing sa iyo ng INC.
    By this reasoning, you are implying that all anointed prophets are messiahs and christs, so how would you DIFFERENTIATE our Lord Jesus Christ from among them? If you can explain that nicely with support from the bible, then I will believe you!

    Also, if you can explain Satan's anointment (when he was a cherub) makes him a messiah or christ as you say!



    Sabi mo nga ang anointed means "elected, designated, appointed with authority" - so ang anointment ba kay Cyrus ay sa Pagliligtas sa sangkatauhan KAGAYA ng anointment kay Christ? Tinawag bang messiah o christ si Cyrus o iba pang mga propeta na anointed?

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