PEx Highlights

PHOTOS: Kia Victorious in Battle of Newcomers

LA Revilla (23pts, 7rebs) stole away the spotlight off of boxing champ Manny Pacquiao's PBA debut, as he rallied Kia over Blackwater 80-66.

read more

PHOTOS: Aguilar, Ginebra Bully Talk N Text

Ginebra had no problems in their opening campaign after a 101-81 win over TNT. Japeth Aguilar proved to be too much for the Texters with his game-high 18pts, 18rebs and 5 blks.

read more

PHOTOS: 40th PBA Season Opening Ceremony

Ellen Adarna, Megan Young and Alice Dixson led the parade of team muses yesterday during the Opening Ceremony of the new PBA season. Check our gallery here!

read more

REVIEW: The Trial

If there's one particular asset the film has, it's the ensemble.

read more

PROMO: Big Hero 6

Join the promo and get a chance to win special screening tickets to Big Hero 6!

read more

Show Me Your Winning Teeths!

Merly and Chelsey are back for a new season of SMYT and they are 'happy to serve' you a new episode about the Miss World pageant and the UAAP Finals.

read more

Page 1 of 5 1 2 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 87
  1. #1

    Post Jose Rizal vs. Andres Bonifacio

    I'm not really sure if there's already a thread on this, but what the heck..might as well...

    For as long as i can remember, there have always been debates on who deserved to be called "Pambansang Bayani". Jose Rizal or Andres Bonifacio.

    I was having a discussion with my boyfriend a few nights ago about this while we were stuck in traffic. My stand: Andres Bonifacio should have been chosen to be our National Hero.

    According to my boyfriend, Jose Rizal was chosen by the Americans to be our National hero because he is what they (the americans) want us, the Filipinos to be. Well traveled, educated, intelligent, linguistic, etc....

    On the other hand, Andres Bonifacio was poor and had no proper schooling.

    But i think Bonifacio fought for our freedom. He wanted the Philippines to stand on its own while Rizal wanted us to be considered a province of spain....not a colony of spain.

    What do you guys think?

  2. #2

    Post

    tingnan mo naman ito, posted my MENJ... sa thread na ito



    Originally posted by MENJ (01-17-2002, 11:48 AM)

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Originally posted by abuGian
    False parallelism my friend, Rizal and Ghandi did not to resort to violence.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    To a certain extent, maybe you are right about Gandhi, but Rizal? If I remember correctly, Rizal was executed by the Spanish as a terrorist (please correct me if I am wrong). In fact, Rizal did expound that he will fight for his "motherland", i.e. Philippines. An example is found in one of his poems

    http://pages.prodigy.com/LALA/rizala.htm#last

    "On the fields of battle, in the fury of fight,
    Others give you their lives without pain or hesitancy,
    The place does not matter: cypress laurel, lily white,
    Scaffold, open field, conflict or martyrdom's site,
    It is the same if asked by home and Country."

    How are you going to "give your life" if you will not fight?

    BTW, I am not saying that I am anti-Rizal, I am in fact a supporter of his cause, just as I am a supporter for the causes of the Palestinians, the Mindanao Muslims and Kashmiri Muslims. Rizal's fight was no different from theirs, the cause of justice.

    Regards.

    MENJ
    menj@maxis.net.my

  3. #3

    Talking

    Hmmm... I have to go with Jose Rizal. While it's true that he's an American sponsored "National Hero," Pepe's prominence has long been there even before the Philippine Revolution sparked. He's been there fighting for the rights of the Filipinos ever since he first came to Spain.

    While it's true that he lobbied for our country to be a province and not to be truly independent, he did so for a good reason. He saw and felt that the Filipinos at the time were not yet incapable of self-rule (after more than 300 years under the colonizers, the people almost lost their original identity) and so wanted Spain to remain as a guide. And another case in point, it was Rizal's books that inspired Bonifacio to go on with his plans (his planned attack on Pinaglabanan was taken from the wedding finale in "El Filibusterismo"). While it's true that Bonifacio lit the spark that led to the revolution, it was Rizal that inspired it all (another minus point against Bonifacio, both Antonio Luna and Rizal saw that the leaders of the planned uprising were ill prepared against the Spanish army both in strategies and arms that's why they refused their support at the time).

  4. #4

    Post

    jose rizal was a muslim.

    this is according to MENJ, a fellow PEXer....

    do you believe?

  5. #5
    angel baloney detector abuGian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    thebereans.net

    Post

    I'd go for Rizal, supporting his methods of "fighting" (which is non-violent) for freedom.

  6. #6

    Post

    jose rizal was a muslim.

    this is according to MENJ, a fellow PEXer....

    do you believe? or did you read any document that attests to this claim?

    i wonder what was rizal's muslim name?

  7. #7
    angel baloney detector abuGian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    thebereans.net

    Post

    By his definition of Muslim ("submission to the will of God"), I can call myself a Muslim. Alahu-akhbar!

  8. #8

    Post

    Originally posted by sadirmata
    jose rizal was a muslim.

    this is according to MENJ, a fellow PEXer....

    do you believe? or did you read any document that attests to this claim?

    i wonder what was rizal's muslim name?




    yeah... pepe is a muslim. and his name was....

    ...

    ....

    .......

    ...........

    ..................


    MUHAMMAD ABDUL JACKOL

  9. #9

    Post

    Originally posted by sadirmata
    jose rizal was a muslim.

    this is according to MENJ, a fellow PEXer....

    do you believe? or did you read any document that attests to this claim?

    i wonder what was rizal's muslim name?




    yeah... pepe is a muslim. and his name was....

    ...

    ....

    .......

    ...........

    ..................


    MUHAMMAD ABDUL JACKOL

  10. #10

    Cool

    kartoonista,

    that is a misconception. bonifacio was inspired by rizal, among others. and the katipunan had more than enough brains to start a revolution even without rizal. there were so many good works by people like burgos long before the noli/fili. and bonifacio WAS EDUCATED though not with an advanced degree. he worked as a clerk meaning he was lettered. a grade-six education then was far more significant than it is now.

    i'm for bonifacio and the revolutionists, in general. rizal is an inspirational figure much like jefferson and lincoln. but bonifacio is our washington: the father of the republic and rightfully the first philippine president. in fact, his declaration of the katipunan with him at the head would qualify him so (at least two years before aguinaldo).
    Last edited by mac_bolan00; Jan 18, 2002 at 05:49 PM.

  11. #11

    Post

    Originally posted by abuGian
    By his definition of Muslim ("submission to the will of God"), I can call myself a Muslim. Alahu-akhbar!
    i also submit to the will of God. so i am a muslim, too? allahu akbar!

  12. #12
    angel baloney detector abuGian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    thebereans.net

    Post

    Hamdulilah brother!

  13. #13

    Talking

    Rizal was not a Muslim (and I don't read anything from MENJ's quote to support this), he's a disgruntled Catholic.

    Btw, I don't see any misconception from what I mentioned. Neither anyone from the previous heroes that supported the cause of the Filipinos wrote anything that would have inspired the Philippine Revolution. They were all gutsy enough to fight the colonizers but that was it. It was only after the writings of Jose Rizal were published the people finally awakened to this fact (Bonifacio included). Andres was gutsy to start the war and he deserves the recognition as a hero but it was Rizal and company's effort that fueled it right from the start.

  14. #14

    Post

    Originally posted by kartoonista
    Rizal was not a Muslim (and I don't read anything from MENJ's quote to support this), he's a disgruntled Catholic.
    rizal was a muslim, according to MENJ:


    "..... I have a great respect for Rizal and what fought for, and moreover, he is even a fellow Muslim. .... "

    "It is a well-known fact by Malaysian Muslims. I even saw it in a documentary last year. No references so far, sorry, but I will try to compile evidence and write an article about Jose Rizal.
    "


    may we request him to provide us solid evidences and proofs of his fact?

  15. #15

    Post

    These Rizal-Bonifacio debates always remind me of two popular sayings: "The Pen is Mightier than the Sword" and "Actions Speak Louder than Words" It is like asking which of the two is correct. I like Bonifacio more but I can't deny the gravity of Rizal's contribution to society. I don't think we should strip rizal of the title but we should put bonifacio on equal footing. One without the other would probably have meant defeat for us all. It is a very good example of the rich and educated working with the poor and not so educated toward a goal. That is what is needed today. A person whom the rich people can emulate and a person whom the masses could look up to and in effect not be alienated. That's how it was then and that's how it should be now. They didn't always get along, but still they respected each other and the result was satisfying.

  16. #16

    Cool

    i'm one of the guys egging this congressman to propose making andres bonifacio our "co-national hero". if passed, a statue of him will be put up in every municipality and his life will be required reading for elemantary students (and at least one subject during high school and college).

  17. #17

    Post

    good luck mac on your "quest." I do hope, bonifacio would be named co-national hero. Although I would like to disagree with statues being put up in every school/local government building. That may not look too good. We have two statues, standing side by side, with the quality of the make aren't the same, that would be an eyesore. Maybe they could just place statues of the national heroes in some other shrines where markets won't be put up and where citizens would normally get a view at them.

    Also, I have apprehensions teaching Bonifacio's Biography as another subject like the Rizal Course we now have in schools. I don't think it is a good idea to force students to learn things about their heroes. These students may end up cursing the hero unintentionally. What I think should be done is to create a subject which will cover the lives of national heroes with emphasis given to the two top ones, rizal and bonifacio. Exams should not be necessary but open discussions should be encouraged. Those who want to participate may participate, those who don't want to may very well not. But then after a while, they may feel left out and start reading themselves and engage in discussions. Also, if the professor knows how to stimulate students, I think that the subject would be one of the most interesting ones in school.

    You may then say that students would not want to attend something they would not gain anything from. Well then, probably we could reach a compromise, we could probably make attending the classes a requirement. That's all they need to do. Be present. No grades, no nothing. And they'll complete all the requirements needed. However, I still think it should be one's choice to attand or not. Those who don't want to learn will forget the subject as soon as the course ends. So in effect, they also gained nothing form the course.

  18. #18

    Cool

    funny, the bonifacio monument in UP-diliman is well-known but the numerous busts and statues of rizal on-campus are largely ignored. if you look at the bonifacio monument in the tutuban center, you will see a radical departure from the original depiction of a barefoot indio with his pant legs rolled up and wielding a bolo. the tutuban statue shows him in a military officer's garb and writing a letter to someone in his cabinet. it was supposed to depict bonifacio the revolutionist. that's what the guy was!

    public elementary schools merely have to split their allocation for rizal courses and include bonifacio. at the UP elementary school where i studied, we had four rizal subjects as folows:

    grade 3 - rizal's student days
    grade 4 - rizal's travels
    grade 5 - rizal in exile
    grade 6 - rizal's martyrdom

    i think two subjects for each co-hero would suffice.

    actually, the bonifacio movement faces a lot of obstacles, not just the argument on his behalf vis-a-vis jose rizal. the biggest detractors to the movement is the aguinaldo bloc. you see, among the major players in our history at that time, only aguinaldo survived to write his own version of history. writers like zaide and the older agoncillio (known aguinaldo supporters), tended to disregard bonifacio's declaration in 1896 --a move that many now consider the start of the revolution and the establishment of a republic with a president. the katipunan manifesto made this very clear. so why is aguinaldo the country's first president and not bonifacio?

    the writers insist on the tejeros convention and subsequent events as the major milestones of the republic. they like to point out bonifacio's failings as a military leader and aguinaldo's supposed unbroken string of victories. what they refused to consider is the fact that bonifacio was leading an underground government with a definite organizational definitions and a decidely bigger fighting force. he had five (5) generals under him who led men to battle. his forces fought in the manila area against the main spanish garrison, not mere provincial garrisons engaged by aguinaldo, trias and malvar.

  19. #19

    Post

    While it's true that he lobbied for our country to be a province and not to be truly independent, he did so for a good reason. He saw and felt that the Filipinos at the time were not yet incapable of self-rule (after more than 300 years under the colonizers, the people almost lost their original identity) and so wanted Spain to remain as a guide. And another case in point, it was Rizal's books that inspired Bonifacio to go on with his plans (his planned attack on Pinaglabanan was taken from the wedding finale in "El Filibusterismo"). While it's true that Bonifacio lit the spark that led to the revolution, it was Rizal that inspired it all (another minus point against Bonifacio, both Antonio Luna and Rizal saw that the leaders of the planned uprising were ill prepared against the Spanish army both in strategies and arms that's why they refused their support at the time).
    To say that the Filipinos are not ready for self determination and self rule at that period, is basically looking at it from the western perspective. We should note that even before the Spaniards came we already had our own set of heirarchy, a language, laws and we were even practicing international trade.

    i'm one of the guys egging this congressman to propose making andres bonifacio our "co-national hero". if passed, a statue of him will be put up in every municipality and his life will be required reading for elemantary students (and at least one subject during high school and college).
    I totally commend your effort, we should push the inclusion of Bonifacio in the curriculum, though much is written about him, so few understand his passion for the country.

  20. #20

    Talking

    Apparently you misunderstood Jose Rizal and company's reason:
    He saw and felt that the Filipinos at the time were not yet incapable of self-rule (after more than 300 years under the colonizers, the people almost lost their original identity) and so wanted Spain to remain as a guide.
    Before the Spaniards came, the Filipinos were a self-ruling bunch and in fact have been in the trade business for who knows how long.

    But like I said, the Spaniards destroyed everything including our self-esteem. Imagine living under an authoritarian rule for more than 3 centuries? Their rule would have been bearable had they been more lenient and forgiving. Pero syempre hindi ganun yung nangyari.

    And besides... I'm just stating a fact that the ilustrados saw what the masses didn't. They have been to the outside world, they saw how fast the world was changing and realized how important education is. So they lobbied for the Crown to institute some changes in that colony (it is a known fact that not everything gets reported back in Spain), and for the Spanish priests to back off.

    I'm not saying that Bonifacio is less than a hero for wanting complete freedom for the country that he so loves, they both love the Philippines. It just so happens that Jose Rizal moved with much more prudence than Andres did.


    *All of Philippine history is very exciting, mali lang paraan ng turo sa mga school. That should change.

Page 1 of 5 1 2 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Hot Topics

CHIT CHAT:

Unzip your man purse and share what's inside your kikoy kit!

Unzip your man purse and share what's inside your kikoy kit!

read more
PBA:

Kia, Ginebra victorious in 40th PBA Season opening

Kia, Ginebra victorious in 40th PBA Season opening

read more
TV:

The Voice PH to open second season on October 26!

The Voice PH to open second season on October 26!

read more
SPORTS:

2014 Philippine Superliga Grand Prix opens

2014 Philippine Superliga Grand Prix opens

read more
SHOWBIZ:

Nadine Samonte also admits private marriage

Nadine Samonte also admits private marriage

read more
NMFtv:

NBA 2K15 Exhibition Gameplay - Washington Wizards VS Los Angeles Clippers on PS4

NBA 2K15 Exhibition Gameplay - Washington Wizards VS Los Angeles Clippers on PS4

read more