INCs, do you believe that Jesus is the King, Husband, Shepherd of His Church? - Page 17 | Realm of Thought | PinoyExchange

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  1. #321

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferdinand View Post
    Kid, I am not asking you to make the same conclusion that I made. Jesus told that the rich man knows the commandments, then listed the commandments about the love of neighbors and then did not bother to list the commandments about the love of God.
    How can you even say that christ "did not bother", naku po, parang talagang tinuturuan mo pa ng gagawin si Cristo!

    When the rich man said that he has followed them Jesus told him “You lack one thing". All I am asking you is what is the logical answer had Jesus left us hanging with that “You lack one thing"? Fill in the blank kid, what is logically lacking in the in rich man's following the commandments what is missing in the commandments listed by Jesus?
    YES, THE MAN LACKED ONE THING - what did Christ tell Him? For him to FOLLOW CHRIST - for him to be a MEMBER OF HIS CHURCH, leave his riches behind, sell them, help the poor because to follow Christ, who is working for God, the bible says that you cannot serve two masters - you cannot serve money and serve God at the same time!

    Matthew 6:24
    New International Version
    "No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    How can you even say that christ "did not bother", naku po, parang talagang tinuturuan mo pa ng gagawin si Cristo!



    YES, THE MAN LACKED ONE THING - what did Christ tell Him? For him to FOLLOW CHRIST - for him to be a MEMBER OF HIS CHURCH, leave his riches behind, sell them, help the poor because to follow Christ, who is working for God, the bible says that you cannot serve two masters - you cannot serve money and serve God at the same time!

    Matthew 6:24
    New International Version
    "No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.
    The problem discussing with you is that you are not the type of person who discuss, you are the type of person who asserts. You don't want to deal with the problem.

    So let me repeat again and this time read and understand what I say. Don't just ASSERT YOUR BELIEF, deal with the problematic text from the Bible.

    The rich man wants to know what he MUST DO to inherit ETERNAL LIFE. Jesus said that the rich man knows the commandments and listed down only the part that deals with the love of neighbor

    ‘You shall not kill;
    you shall not commit adultery;
    you shall not steal;
    you shall not bear false witness;
    you shall not defraud;
    honor your father and your mother.’”

    The rich man said he have done those commandments that Jesus listed.

    Now this is the interesting part, and I want you to pay good attention to this. Remember that Jesus is talking about the following the commandments of God to inherit eternal life and is just curious that He did not list down the GREATEST commandments the deals with the LOVE OF GOD. Had Jesus left us with this statement "you lack one thing", what will be the logical answer to fill in the blank?

    "You lack one thing"What is that one thing in the commandment of God that the rich man lacks?

    Be intellectually honest kidlat and deal with the problematic text, do not just assert your INC belief.

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferdinand View Post
    The problem discussing with you is that you are not the type of person who discuss, you are the type of person who asserts. You don't want to deal with the problem.

    Because I know the truth and I don't QUESTION THE BIBLE like you do! (How dare!!! ) There is no problem there! You are looking for the eye of the needle in a spear!


    So let me repeat again and this time read and understand what I say. Don't just ASSERT YOUR BELIEF, deal with the problematic text from the Bible.
    There's a "problematic text in the bible"??? (How dare x 2!!! )

    2 Timothy 3:16-17
    International Standard Version (ISV)
    16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good action.

    ^ Obviously, Ferdinand does not believe this because he says there's a "problematic text in the bible"! THE NERVE!!!

    The rich man wants to know what he MUST DO to inherit ETERNAL LIFE. Jesus said that the rich man knows the commandments and listed down only the part that deals with the love of neighbor

    ‘You shall not kill;
    you shall not commit adultery;
    you shall not steal;
    you shall not bear false witness;
    you shall not defraud;
    honor your father and your mother.’”

    The rich man said he have done those commandments that Jesus listed.

    Now this is the interesting part, and I want you to pay good attention to this. Remember that Jesus is talking about the following the commandments of God to inherit eternal life and is just curious that He did not list down the GREATEST commandments the deals with the LOVE OF GOD.

    What did this guy go to Jesus for if he did not know about the God that Christ is teaching about and he wanted to know more?


    Had Jesus left us with this statement "you lack one thing", what will be the logical answer to fill in the blank?

    "You lack one thing"What is that one thing in the commandment of God that the rich man lacks?

    Be intellectually honest kidlat and deal with the problematic text, do not just assert your INC belief.
    This was WHAT Jesus said to the man FROM THE BIBLE and not from my own interpretation or understanding:

    Luke 18:22
    New International Version
    When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

    HINDI PA BA CLEAR YAN? YUNG ONE THING NA YUN AY strip himself of all his riches then FOLLOW Jesus who at that time is PREACHING ABOUT GOD, HIS FATHER, AND HOW PEOPLE CAN GO TO GOD THROUGH HIM?

    And simply how can one attain salvation? Jesus Christ explicitly said:


    John 17:3
    New Living Translation
    And this is the way to have eternal life--to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth.

    What if my answer is "YOU SHOULD LOVE GOD WITH ALL YOUR MIND AND HEART AND SOUL" what does that prove???

  5. #325
    Ang dami mo nang sinabi kid, masyado kang defensive. All I wanted you to do is fill in the blank. Jesus is talking about following the commandments of God to inherit eternal life then proceeded to list the commandments to love thy neighbor, the rich man said he have done it since childhood. Jesus did not list down the GREATEST commandments the deals with the LOVE OF GOD. Had Jesus left us with this statement "you lack one thing", what will be the logical answer to fill in the blank?

    "You lack one thing". What is that one thing in the commandment of God that the rich man lacks?

    No ifs and buts just answer the question plainly.

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferdinand View Post
    Ang dami mo nang sinabi kid, masyado kang defensive. All I wanted you to do is fill in the blank. Jesus is talking about following the commandments of God to inherit eternal life then proceeded to list the commandments to love thy neighbor, the rich man said he have done it since childhood. Jesus did not list down the GREATEST commandments the deals with the LOVE OF GOD. Had Jesus left us with this statement "you lack one thing", what will be the logical answer to fill in the blank?

    "You lack one thing". What is that one thing in the commandment of God that the rich man lacks?

    No ifs and buts just answer the question plainly.
    Jesus already said what one thing he lacked! Hanukaba??? He said for him to follow Him! "Follow me" Jesus said, and in the process the rich man has to leave his riches which Jesus advised that he sell and distribute to poor people! ANG HINA MO NAMAN! Paano mo maide-derive dyan na sinasabi ni Cristo na Siya ay Diyos??? Ikaw itong maisiksik mo lang ang sarili mo/nyong opinion! Tsk tsk!!!

    Dapat inuna na Niyang i-hint yan sa mga apostol at dapat itinuro yan ng mga apostol sa mga tao after Jesus' resurrection and ascention to heaven dahil hindi na Siya mahuhuli at mapapatay muli ng mga baliw!

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    Jesus already said what one thing he lacked! Hanukaba??? He said for him to follow Him! "Follow me" Jesus said, and in the process the rich man has to leave his riches which Jesus advised that he sell and distribute to poor people! ANG HINA MO NAMAN! Paano mo maide-derive dyan na sinasabi ni Cristo na Siya ay Diyos??? Ikaw itong maisiksik mo lang ang sarili mo/nyong opinion! Tsk tsk!!!

    Dapat inuna na Niyang i-hint yan sa mga apostol at dapat itinuro yan ng mga apostol sa mga tao after Jesus' resurrection and ascention to heaven dahil hindi na Siya mahuhuli at mapapatay muli ng mga baliw!
    Ayan na naman itong si kidlat, nag-a-assert na naman. Style mo talaga palaging evading. Can you at least be honest and fill in the blank? What IF Jesus left us hanging with this statement "you lack one thing", what will that be? Remember that Jesus is talking about the 10 commandments here and that he listed the commandments of love thy neighbor which the rich man says he has done since childhood. What part of the commandments is missing?

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferdinand View Post
    Ayan na naman itong si kidlat, nag-a-assert na naman. Style mo talaga palaging evading. Can you at least be honest and fill in the blank? What IF Jesus left us hanging with this statement "you lack one thing", what will that be? Remember that Jesus is talking about the 10 commandments here and that he listed the commandments of love thy neighbor which the rich man says he has done since childhood. What part of the commandments is missing?
    You are giving your own scenario so that doesn't count! Are you trying very hard to prove that Christ WAS NOT CLEAR? Are you telling us here that there was a better way to say this to the man? It is very obvious that you are fishing for an answer that will again prove your RCC theory of Christ is God from my answer? You won't get it! I don't even know how you can direct me that way!

    In another bible version, this is how the verse was written:

    Luke 18:22
    Aramaic Bible in Plain English
    But when Yeshua heard these things, he said to him, “You lack one thing: Go sell everything that you have and give to the poor, and you shall have a treasure in Heaven, and come after me.

    Sa Tagalog naman:

    22 At nang marinig ito ni Jesus, ay sinabi niya sa kaniya, Isang bagay pa ang kulang sa iyo: ipagbili mo ang lahat mong tinatangkilik, at ipamahagi mo sa mga dukha, at magkakaroon ka ng kayamanan sa langit: at pumarito ka, sumunod ka sa akin.

    Ang SINASABI DITO NI CRISTO AY sumunod o sumama siya sa grupo ni Cristo na naglalakbay at ikinakalat ang salita ng Diyos, HINDI YUNG SUMUNOD siya sa mga naunang kautusan ng Diyos na nagpapanggap na tao! Yan ba ang ibig mong sabihin na sinabi ni Cristo na "Come follow me!" referring to God's first commandments na about LOVE for God?

  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    You are giving your own scenario so that doesn't count! Are you trying very hard to prove that Christ WAS NOT CLEAR? Are you telling us here that there was a better way to say this to the man? It is very obvious that you are fishing for an answer that will again prove your RCC theory of Christ is God from my answer? You won't get it! I don't even know how you can direct me that way!
    You might think that it doesn't count but I think it does. And I am not saying that Jesus is not clear, all I am saying is He is deliberately being ambiguous so that we are going to think and make decision on our own on who He is to us WITHOUT eliminating faith. All I am asking you is to make a logical answer HAD He left us hanging with the "you lack one thing" statement. And of course I will try to prove that Jesus is God not in your answer but in the answer to the riddle in Mark 10 passage. So whether you agree or not that the logical answer to the question what is lacking in the rich man had Jesus left us with "you lack one thing" is the love of God doesn't matter at all to my conclusion. You can make your own conclusion to the answer "love of God" in my question. If it is just this one incident kid, we might say that it is just a coincidence that Jesus listed the commandments about the love of neighbor and just forgot to mention or have no intention of mentioning the GREATEST COMMANDMENT of love of God THAT MUST BE FOLLOWED TO INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE. Ang kaso ay HINDI eh,most of the time we see Him make AMBIGUOUS statements or actions when it comes to His identity. Why is He doing this ambiguous approach? Why leave open to interpretation who He IS? Why not plainly state or EXPLICITLY say WHO he IS?

    Let me give you another example. In the Old Testament God promised to be with His people like He did in the Shekinah. What is the Shekinah?

    SHEKINAH (; lit. "the dwelling") - The majestic presence or manifestation of God which has descended to "dwell" among men. Like Memra (= "word"; "logos") and "Yeḳara" (i.e., "Kabod" = "glory"), the term was used by the Rabbis in place of "God" where the anthropomorphic expressions of the Bible were no longer regarded as proper (see Anthropomorphism). The word itself is taken from such passages as speak of God dwelling either in the Tabernacle or among the people of Israel (see Ex. xxv. 8, xxix. 45-46; Num. v. 3, xxxv. 34; I Kings vi. 13; Ezek. xliii. 9; Zech. ii. 14 [A. V. 10]). Occasionally the name of God is spoken of as descending (Deut. xii. 11; xiv. 23; xvi. 6, 11; xxvi. 2; Neh. i. 9). It is especially said that God dwells in Jerusalem (Zech. viii. 3; Ps. cxxxv. 21; I Chron. xxiii. 25), on Mount Zion (Isa. viii. 18; Joel iv. [A. V. iii.] 17, 21; Ps. xv. 1, lxxiv. 2), and in the Temple itself (Ezek. xliii. 7). Allusion is made also to "him that dwelt in the bush" (Deut. xxxiii. 16, ); and it is said that "the glory of the Lord abode upon Mount Sinai" (Ex. xxiv. 16).

    http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/ar...13537-shekinah

    Sometimes we take this for granted when we read the Bible. We do not dwell to understand it but causally read it as IF we understand it. But if we are going to do a lectio divina - In Christianity, Lectio Divina (Latin for "Divine Reading") is a traditional Benedictine practice of scriptural reading, meditation and prayer intended to promote communion with God and to increase the knowledge of God's Word. It does not treat Scripture as texts to be studied, but as the Living Word - there is no other way of properly answering the riddles of Jesus identity than say He is God in the flesh.

    For thousands of years the Jews have been praying for the return of the Shekinah, morning, afternoon and evening, in the Amidah - return in mercy to Jerusalem Your city and dwell therein as You have promised; speedily establish therein the throne of David Your servant, and rebuild it, soon in our days, as an everlasting edifice. Blessed are You L-rd, who rebuilds Jerusalem. Speedily cause the scion of David Your servant to flourish, and increase his power by Your salvation, for we hope for Your salvation all day. Blessed are You L-rd, who causes the power of salvation to flourish.

    Now what did John say about that Amidah prayer in his Gospel?

    The Word Became Flesh
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being. What has come into being 4 in him was life,[a] and the life was the light of all people. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not overcome it...10 He was in the world, and the world came into being through him; yet the world did not know him...14And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of the Father’s only Son,[d] full of grace and truth...No one has ever seen God. The only Son, God, who is at the Father’s side, has revealed him.

    And the Word became flesh and lived among us - The incarnate Word is the new mode of God’s presence among his people. The Greek verb has the same consonants as the Aramaic word for God’s presence (Shekinah). Glory: God’s visible manifestation of majesty in power, which once filled the tabernacle (Ex 40:34) and the temple-
    NABRE footnotes

    Kidlat, Jesus made a lot of riddles in words and deeds regarding His TRUE IDENTITY. He did these to invite us and make our own decisions. He did not shove it on us, He did it so as NOT to eliminate FAITH in the equation. He did this for three years in His public life, but on His last year, He increasingly made bold proclamations on who He IS, and when the time came, on His "HOUR", He was charged with BLASPHEMY and sentenced to death. And the Jews were able to upgrade that charge to sedition in front of Pilate. But take note Pilate did not accept the charge of sedition, Pilate gave Jesus to the Jews to be crucified.

    John 19New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)

    19 Then Pilate took Jesus and had him flogged. 2 And the soldiers wove a crown of thorns and put it on his head, and they dressed him in a purple robe. 3 They kept coming up to him, saying, “Hail, King of the Jews!” and striking him on the face. 4 Pilate went out again and said to them, “Look, I am bringing him out to you to let you know that I find no case against him.” 5 So Jesus came out, wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe. Pilate said to them, “Here is the man!” 6 When the chief priests and the police saw him, they shouted, “Crucify him! Crucify him!” Pilate said to them, “Take him yourselves and crucify him; I find no case against him.” 7 The Jews answered him, “We have a law, and according to that law he ought to die because he has claimed to be the Son of God.

    8 Now when Pilate heard this, he was more afraid than ever. 9 He entered his headquarters[a] again and asked Jesus, “Where are you from?” But Jesus gave him no answer. 10 Pilate therefore said to him, “Do you refuse to speak to me? Do you not know that I have power to release you, and power to crucify you?” 11 Jesus answered him, “You would have no power over me unless it had been given you from above; therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.” 12 From then on Pilate tried to release him, but the Jews cried out, “If you release this man, you are no friend of the emperor. Everyone who claims to be a king sets himself against the emperor.”

    13 When Pilate heard these words, he brought Jesus outside and sat[b] on the judge’s bench at a place called The Stone Pavement, or in Hebrew[c] Gabbatha. 14 Now it was the day of Preparation for the Passover; and it was about noon. He said to the Jews, “Here is your King!” 15 They cried out, “Away with him! Away with him! Crucify him!” Pilate asked them, “Shall I crucify your King?” The chief priests answered, “We have no king but the emperor.” 16 Then he handed him over to them to be crucified.

    Every good theologian can write a book about Jesus divinity just on this case alone. So let me make my point about Mark 10:17-22. The rich man called Jesus "good teacher" and asked Jesus what he MUST DO to INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE. Jesus asked the rich man why he called Him good when no one is agathos but the One God. Then He said "YOU KNOW THE COMMANDMENTS". We all know that Jesus is talking about the 10 commandments here that were GIVEN by God in Mt. Sinai. Then He proceeded by listing the commandments of LOVE THY NEIGHBOR, which is ONLY HALF of the 10 commandments and second only in the greatest commandment which is LOVE OF GOD. The rich man said that he had done them since childhood. Jesus told him that he "LACKS ONE THING"

    Isn't it interesting that the rich man is asking what he MUST DO and to INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE and Jesus just listed the commandments to love thy neighbor and NOT the LOVE OF GOD GIVEN by God in Mt. Sinai? Jesus listed the commandments that deal with the LOVE THY NEIGHBOR, which is ONLY HALF of the 10 commandments and second only in the greatest commandment which is LOVE OF GOD. And when the rich man said that he has done them Jesus said that he still lacks one thing? IF one knows the 10 commandments, one will surely say that what the rich man lacks is the GREATEST COMMANDMENT which is what MUST BE DONE TO INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE. Surprisingly, Jesus did not mention the love of God as what the rich man lacks, right? Or did He? Kidlat and every fanatical INC will say:

    "that is not what Jesus said, Jesus says: go, sell what you own, and give the money[c] to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me. ANO ANG MAGAGAWA KO, IYON ANG NAKASULAT SA BIBLIYA?"

    Iyan ang standard na sagot ni kid. But I say, YES Jesus told the rich man to follow the greatest commandment which is the love of God but in a NEW WAY. This NEW WAY is in UNITY with the New Testament of who Jesus IS, God in the flesh who TABERNACLED with us as what John told us in the beginning of his Gospel. The Shekinah in the flesh, the GLORY OF GOD IN THE FLESH!

    Just think deeply what Jesus said here:

    “You lack one thing;
    go, sell what you own, and give the money[c] to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me.”

    That is ONE WAY of saying; love God with all your heart, with all your mind, and with all your soul, that is, IF JESUS IS GOD right? If Jesus is not God and He told the rich man to follow him instead of following God which is the GREATEST COMMANDMENT to INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE, then Jesus, if He is a SANE person is committing a sin. Just like what Lewis said in Mere Christianity, LIAR LUNATIC OR LORD, take your pick.

  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferdinand View Post
    You might think that it doesn't count but I think it does.
    Well then it will be just Ferdie VS Kidlat! Unless you can show me a bible passage, that's the time I will reconsider!

    And I am not saying that Jesus is not clear, all I am saying is He is deliberately being ambiguous so that we are going to think and make decision on our own on who He is to us WITHOUT eliminating faith.
    Show me an instance in the bible when Christ was being deliberately ambiguous and I will again reconsider. Christ is a TEACHER and a teacher brings knowledge to those who do not have it, so to "test" someone who have no previous knowledge of something would not be Christ's style of teaching. On the contrary, this is what Christ says:

    Matthew 13:13 This is why I speak to them in parables: ‘Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.’ 14 In them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled: ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.…

    Christ knows who the hypocrites are and what he does to them is not to be "deliberately ambiguous", rather, He teaches them in parables because they will never understand His simple teaching due to the hardness of their hearts!

    All I am asking you is to make a logical answer HAD He left us hanging with the "you lack one thing" statement.
    I have answered you many times but you can't accept my answer because it doesn't comply to your way of fishing an answer!

    And of course I will try to prove that Jesus is God not in your answer but in the answer to the riddle in Mark 10 passage. So whether you agree or not that the logical answer to the question what is lacking in the rich man had Jesus left us with "you lack one thing" is the love of God doesn't matter at all to my conclusion.
    What makes you say that what Jesus asked is a "riddle"??? Here again, you are ADDING a lie! This would be an opposite of the doctrine that we are saved through grace! Think about that, Ferdie! Do you even think that the man would ever guess that "Jesus is telling him the He is God Himself???

    You can make your own conclusion to the answer "love of God" in my question. If it is just this one incident kid, we might say that it is just a coincidence that Jesus listed the commandments about the love of neighbor and just forgot to mention or have no intention of mentioning the GREATEST COMMANDMENT of love of God THAT MUST BE FOLLOWED TO INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE. Ang kaso ay HINDI eh,most of the time we see Him make AMBIGUOUS statements or actions when it comes to His identity. Why is He doing this ambiguous approach? Why leave open to interpretation who He IS? Why not plainly state or EXPLICITLY say WHO he IS?
    It is only you that brought this to yourself! You see, this is exactly how RCC doctrines were created by thinking that the words of God in the Holy Scriptures are "open to interpretation"!

    According to the bible:

    2 Peter 1:20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from the prophet’s own interpretation. 21 For no prophecy was ever brought about through human initiative, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.…

    Christ EXPLICITLY TOLD THE MAN TO "FOLLOW" HIM, not as if to follow His commandments BUT TO FOLLOW Him on His journey with the apostles!!! Heynakupo!

    Let me give you another example. In the Old Testament God promised to be with His people like He did in the Shekinah. What is the Shekinah?

    SHEKINAH (; lit. "the dwelling") - The majestic presence or manifestation of God which has descended to "dwell" among men. Like Memra (= "word"; "logos") and "Yeḳara" (i.e., "Kabod" = "glory"), the term was used by the Rabbis in place of "God" where the anthropomorphic expressions of the Bible were no longer regarded as proper (see Anthropomorphism). The word itself is taken from such passages as speak of God dwelling either in the Tabernacle or among the people of Israel (see Ex. xxv. 8, xxix. 45-46; Num. v. 3, xxxv. 34; I Kings vi. 13; Ezek. xliii. 9; Zech. ii. 14 [A. V. 10]). Occasionally the name of God is spoken of as descending (Deut. xii. 11; xiv. 23; xvi. 6, 11; xxvi. 2; Neh. i. 9). It is especially said that God dwells in Jerusalem (Zech. viii. 3; Ps. cxxxv. 21; I Chron. xxiii. 25), on Mount Zion (Isa. viii. 18; Joel iv. [A. V. iii.] 17, 21; Ps. xv. 1, lxxiv. 2), and in the Temple itself (Ezek. xliii. 7). Allusion is made also to "him that dwelt in the bush" (Deut. xxxiii. 16, ); and it is said that "the glory of the Lord abode upon Mount Sinai" (Ex. xxiv. 16).

    http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/ar...13537-shekinah

    Sometimes we take this for granted when we read the Bible. We do not dwell to understand it but causally read it as IF we understand it. But if we are going to do a lectio divina - In Christianity, Lectio Divina (Latin for "Divine Reading") is a traditional Benedictine practice of scriptural reading, meditation and prayer intended to promote communion with God and to increase the knowledge of God's Word. It does not treat Scripture as texts to be studied, but as the Living Word - there is no other way of properly answering the riddles of Jesus identity than say He is God in the flesh.

    For thousands of years the Jews have been praying for the return of the Shekinah, morning, afternoon and evening, in the Amidah - return in mercy to Jerusalem Your city and dwell therein as You have promised; speedily establish therein the throne of David Your servant, and rebuild it, soon in our days, as an everlasting edifice. Blessed are You L-rd, who rebuilds Jerusalem. Speedily cause the scion of David Your servant to flourish, and increase his power by Your salvation, for we hope for Your salvation all day. Blessed are You L-rd, who causes the power of salvation to flourish.

    Now what did John say about that Amidah prayer in his Gospel?

    The Word Became Flesh
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being. What has come into being 4 in him was life,[a] and the life was the light of all people. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not overcome it...10 He was in the world, and the world came into being through him; yet the world did not know him...14And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of the Father’s only Son,[d] full of grace and truth...No one has ever seen God. The only Son, God, who is at the Father’s side, has revealed him.

    And the Word became flesh and lived among us - The incarnate Word is the new mode of God’s presence among his people. The Greek verb has the same consonants as the Aramaic word for God’s presence (Shekinah). Glory: God’s visible manifestation of majesty in power, which once filled the tabernacle (Ex 40:34) and the temple-
    NABRE footnotes
    Ferdie, learn to follow Apostle Paul's advice:

    I Corinthoans 4:6
    Berean Study Bible
    Brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us not to go beyond what is written. Then you will not take pride in one man over another.

    Kidlat, Jesus made a lot of riddles in words and deeds regarding His TRUE IDENTITY. He did these to invite us and make our own decisions. He did not shove it on us, He did it so as NOT to eliminate FAITH in the equation. He did this for three years in His public life, but on His last year, He increasingly made bold proclamations on who He IS, and when the time came, on His "HOUR", He was charged with BLASPHEMY and sentenced to death. And the Jews were able to upgrade that charge to sedition in front of Pilate. But take note Pilate did not accept the charge of sedition, Pilate gave Jesus to the Jews to be crucified.
    What you are only able to accomplish here is to make Jesus Christ a LIAR! His teachings are from God, Christ is not God!

    2 Corinthians 11:3
    King James Bible
    But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

    John 19New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)

    19 Then Pilate took Jesus and had him flogged. 2 And the soldiers wove a crown of thorns and put it on his head, and they dressed him in a purple robe. 3 They kept coming up to him, saying, “Hail, King of the Jews!” and striking him on the face. 4 Pilate went out again and said to them, “Look, I am bringing him out to you to let you know that I find no case against him.” 5 So Jesus came out, wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe. Pilate said to them, “Here is the man!” 6 When the chief priests and the police saw him, they shouted, “Crucify him! Crucify him!” Pilate said to them, “Take him yourselves and crucify him; I find no case against him.” 7 The Jews answered him, “We have a law, and according to that law he ought to die because he has claimed to be the Son of God.

    8 Now when Pilate heard this, he was more afraid than ever. 9 He entered his headquarters[a] again and asked Jesus, “Where are you from?” But Jesus gave him no answer. 10 Pilate therefore said to him, “Do you refuse to speak to me? Do you not know that I have power to release you, and power to crucify you?” 11 Jesus answered him, “You would have no power over me unless it had been given you from above; therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.” 12 From then on Pilate tried to release him, but the Jews cried out, “If you release this man, you are no friend of the emperor. Everyone who claims to be a king sets himself against the emperor.”

    13 When Pilate heard these words, he brought Jesus outside and sat[b] on the judge’s bench at a place called The Stone Pavement, or in Hebrew[c] Gabbatha. 14 Now it was the day of Preparation for the Passover; and it was about noon. He said to the Jews, “Here is your King!” 15 They cried out, “Away with him! Away with him! Crucify him!” Pilate asked them, “Shall I crucify your King?” The chief priests answered, “We have no king but the emperor.” 16 Then he handed him over to them to be crucified.

    Every good theologian can write a book about Jesus divinity just on this case alone. So let me make my point about Mark 10:17-22. The rich man called Jesus "good teacher" and asked Jesus what he MUST DO to INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE. Jesus asked the rich man why he called Him good when no one is agathos but the One God. Then He said "YOU KNOW THE COMMANDMENTS". We all know that Jesus is talking about the 10 commandments here that were GIVEN by God in Mt. Sinai. Then He proceeded by listing the commandments of LOVE THY NEIGHBOR, which is ONLY HALF of the 10 commandments and second only in the greatest commandment which is LOVE OF GOD. The rich man said that he had done them since childhood. Jesus told him that he "LACKS ONE THING"

    Isn't it interesting that the rich man is asking what he MUST DO and to INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE and Jesus just listed the commandments to love thy neighbor and NOT the LOVE OF GOD GIVEN by God in Mt. Sinai? Jesus listed the commandments that deal with the LOVE THY NEIGHBOR, which is ONLY HALF of the 10 commandments and second only in the greatest commandment which is LOVE OF GOD. And when the rich man said that he has done them Jesus said that he still lacks one thing? IF one knows the 10 commandments, one will surely say that what the rich man lacks is the GREATEST COMMANDMENT which is what MUST BE DONE TO INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE. Surprisingly, Jesus did not mention the love of God as what the rich man lacks, right? Or did He? Kidlat and every fanatical INC will say:

    "that is not what Jesus said, Jesus says: go, sell what you own, and give the money[c] to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me. ANO ANG MAGAGAWA KO, IYON ANG NAKASULAT SA BIBLIYA?"

    Iyan ang standard na sagot ni kid. But I say, YES Jesus told the rich man to follow the greatest commandment which is the love of God but in a NEW WAY. This NEW WAY is in UNITY with the New Testament of who Jesus IS, God in the flesh who TABERNACLED with us as what John told us in the beginning of his Gospel. The Shekinah in the flesh, the GLORY OF GOD IN THE FLESH!

    Just think deeply what Jesus said here:

    “You lack one thing;
    go, sell what you own, and give the money[c] to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me.”

    That is ONE WAY of saying; love God with all your heart, with all your mind, and with all your soul, that is, IF JESUS IS GOD right? If Jesus is not God and He told the rich man to follow him instead of following God which is the GREATEST COMMANDMENT to INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE, then Jesus, if He is a SANE person is committing a sin. Just like what Lewis said in Mere Christianity, LIAR LUNATIC OR LORD, take your pick.
    AGAIN, THE GRACE IS FOR CHRIST TO GIVE. With the rich man, He gave him a chance. With the DYING robber, He gave Him grace upon his pronouncement that he believed in Christ!

    Besides. time and again I gave you these verses:

    1 John 5:3
    New International Version
    In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,


    1 John 2:5
    5But if anyone keeps His word, the love of God has been truly perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 Whoever claims to abide in Him must walk as Jesus walked.…

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    Well then it will be just Ferdie VS Kidlat! Unless you can show me a bible passage, that's the time I will reconsider!
    A bible verse without its proper context is just it, a bible verse. Anyone can distort it to their own liking, it is open to interpretation to people who have no regard to the truth. And since you said yourself that you don't make decisions and you just obey, then you are just obeying people who have no regards to the truth. Because it is very clear that FYM did not know the history of Israel, Greek or Hebrew language and culture.

    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    Show me an instance in the bible when Christ was being deliberately ambiguous and I will again reconsider. Christ is a TEACHER and a teacher brings knowledge to those who do not have it, so to "test" someone who have no previous knowledge of something would not be Christ's style of teaching. On the contrary, this is what Christ says:

    Matthew 13:13 This is why I speak to them in parables: ‘Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.’ 14 In them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled: ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.…

    Christ knows who the hypocrites are and what he does to them is not to be "deliberately ambiguous", rather, He teaches them in parables because they will never understand His simple teaching due to the hardness of their hearts!
    There's a lot kid, and I am planning to show some of them here, but in due time, I want to do this one at a time, exhausting one passage for you to see and understand, even though I know that you have no plans of listening and discussing but only to assert your doctrine. And I agree, Christ is a teacher, but His teaching method is not like the teaching method you are familiar in INC indoctrination, He let the audience participate and make their own decision on WHO He IS based on what He say or do. Quoting Matthew 13:13 only proves what I've been saying about His ambiguous sayings and actions about His identity. It is concealing and yet revealing just like what Catholic exegetes have been saying. It is concealing to those who have ears but do not listen and eye but do not seen and yet revealing to those who are willing to listen and see with faith.

    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    I have answered you many times but you can't accept my answer because it doesn't comply to your way of fishing an answer!
    Yes you've answer me but with evasion; you skirted my question and pretend that you've answered them, but in reality you did not.

    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    What makes you say that what Jesus asked is a "riddle"??? Here again, you are ADDING a lie! This would be an opposite of the doctrine that we are saved through grace!
    There's nothing I can not do if you don't know how to recognize riddles or puzzles about Jesus' identity. For example I've given this two years ago and yet no INC bothered to give the INC teaching or opinion. This is the riddle in Mark 1

    1 The beginning of the good news[a] of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.[b]

    2 As it is written in the prophet Isaiah,[c]

    “See, I am sending my messenger ahead of you,[d]
    who will prepare your way;
    3
    the voice of one crying out in the wilderness:
    ‘Prepare the way of the Lord,
    make his paths straight,’”


    We read that and don't even bother to read Isaiah and Malachi where Mark got them. And we don't even bother why Mark said it is from Isaiah when they are from Isaiah and Malachi combined together which is a Jewish form of teaching called hekesh that combined verses from different books that deals with the same event or person.

    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    Think about that, Ferdie! Do you even think that the man would ever guess that "Jesus is telling him the He is God Himself???
    Back then people who understands the Scriptures might be able to get what Jesus is saying about, because the Scripture will arouse in them certain bible passages specially in the condition they are in as a nation. Most of the Jews at that time knew that they are under the 4th kingdom prophesied in Daniel 2 and 7, this is evident in the writings of Josephus. So yes some of them who have ears to hear and eyes to see can know what Jesus is doing. But for us disconnected in time, culture, language, idioms, and mode of speaking and writing the obvious answer is no.

    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    It is only you that brought this to yourself! You see, this is exactly how RCC doctrines were created by thinking that the words of God in the Holy Scriptures are "open to interpretation"!

    According to the bible:

    2 Peter 1:20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from the prophet’s own interpretation. 21 For no prophecy was ever brought about through human initiative, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.…

    Christ EXPLICITLY TOLD THE MAN TO "FOLLOW" HIM, not as if to follow His commandments BUT TO FOLLOW on His journey with the apostles!!! Heynakupo!
    And this is why I can say that you don't get the riddle, like the pharisees and cribes of Jesus' time, you refuse to recognized it because it will break your tradition, your human tradition. It is really simple kid. The rich man wants to know what He must do to inherit eternal life, Jesus told him that he knows the commandment and then listed the commandments about love thy neighbor, then the rich man said he have done them since childhood. But if you are going to think about Jesus's answer, He did not give the most important commandment that MUST be followed to inherit eternal life, He gave the 2nd to the greatest and then told the rich man that he still lack one thing, If there are only two great commandments, and they are ranked one and two, and the only commandment that Jesus mentioned is ranked number two, then what will be the logical answer to what the rich man is lacking? That is the question you keep evading to answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    Ferdie, learn to follow Apostle Paul's advice:

    I Corinthoans 4:6
    Berean Study Bible
    Brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us not to go beyond what is written. Then you will not take pride in one man over another.
    Making sense of what Jesus say ow what the Scriptures say is not going beyond what is written, kid. it is how we come to knowledge by giving reasonable meaning to what is written specially on passages that are not clear because of cultural, language and mode of expression distance from our own time.

    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    What you are only able to accomplish here is to make Jesus Christ a LIAR! His teachings are from God, Christ is not God!

    2 Corinthians 11:3
    King James Bible
    But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
    Why would Jesus be charged with blasphemy if what Jesus said about His identity is not blasphemous? What is blasphemous in admitting who really is? You don't have to answer that since I am planning to put that as my next topic to discuss, but you can if you want to answer it. That will pave the way for our transition to the topic of apparent Jesus' blasphemy.

    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    AGAIN, THE GRACE IS FOR CHRIST TO GIVE. With the rich man, He gave him a chance. With the DYING robber, He gave Him grace upon his pronouncement that he believed in Christ!

    Besides. time and again I gave you these verses:

    1 John 5:3
    New International Version
    In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,


    1 John 2:5
    5But if anyone keeps His word, the love of God has been truly perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 Whoever claims to abide in Him must walk as Jesus walked.…
    We are all given the grace to think and make our own decision. Is Jesus a liar, and lunatic or the Lord? In his trial before the Sanhedrin He left us with the option of who He is to us, is he a blasphemer as the Jews had labeled Him, or is He telling the truth of His identity as the DIVINE Son of God, therefore not a blasphemer? This is good transition point for my next argument for the divinity of Jesus, so let us talk about the trial of Jesus. We can use any of the synoptics on this but I choose Mark.


    Jesus before the Council

    53 They took Jesus to the high priest; and all the chief priests, the elders, and the scribes were assembled. 54 Peter had followed him at a distance, right into the courtyard of the high priest; and he was sitting with the guards, warming himself at the fire. 55 Now the chief priests and the whole council were looking for testimony against Jesus to put him to death; but they found none. 56 For many gave false testimony against him, and their testimony did not agree. 57 Some stood up and gave false testimony against him, saying, 58 “We heard him say, ‘I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and in three days I will build another, not made with hands.’” 59 But even on this point their testimony did not agree. 60 Then the high priest stood up before them and asked Jesus, “Have you no answer? What is it that they testify against you?” 61 But he was silent and did not answer. Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah,[j] the Son of the Blessed One?” 62 Jesus said, “I am; and

    ‘you will see the Son of Man
    seated at the right hand of the Power,’
    and ‘coming with the clouds of heaven.’”

    63 Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “Why do we still need witnesses? 64 You have heard his blasphemy! What is your decision?” All of them condemned him as deserving death. 65 Some began to spit on him, to blindfold him, and to strike him, saying to him, “Prophesy!” The guards also took him over and beat him.
    Last edited by Ferdinand; 1 week ago at 07:45 PM.

  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferdinand View Post
    A bible verse without its proper context is just it, a bible verse. Anyone can distort it to their own liking, it is open to interpretation to people who have no regard to the truth. And since you said yourself that you don't make decisions and you just obey, then you are just obeying people who have no regards to the truth. Because it is very clear that FYM did not know the history of Israel, Greek or Hebrew language and culture.
    That's right! RCC has been doing that for centuries now! And you think that history cannot be falsified? Here's a good example:

    Ignatian Forgeries
    http://www.bible.ca/history-ignatius...ries-250AD.htm

    There's a lot kid, and I am planning to show some of them here, but in due time, I want to do this one at a time, exhausting one passage for you to see and understand,
    OK, that's nice, I'll wait!

    even though I know that you have no plans of listening and discussing but only to assert your doctrine.
    HOW JUDGMENTAL OF YOU! Just because I seem to always disagree, I don't "listen"?


    And I agree, Christ is a teacher, but His teaching method is not like the teaching method you are familiar in INC indoctrination, He let the audience participate and make their own decision on WHO He IS based on what He say or do.
    So you're saying that catholic priest and protestant pastors have "Christ's method of teaching"? OK, let's see, this is what Christ says in the bible:

    John 14:21
    Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him."

    John 14:23
    Jesus replied, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make Our home with him.

    John 15:10
    If you keep My commandments, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and remain in His love.

    ^So based on the above teachings, is there room for anyone's decision and/or participation on the matter?

    Quoting Matthew 13:13 only proves what I've been saying about His ambiguous sayings and actions about His identity. It is concealing and yet revealing just like what Catholic exegetes have been saying. It is concealing to those who have ears but do not listen and eye but do not seen and yet revealing to those who are willing to listen and see with faith.
    It only proves that you are giving your own understanding and opinion on it! Your eyes and ears are the one that do not perceive the plain and simple truth!


    Yes you've answer me but with evasion; you skirted my question and pretend that you've answered them, but in reality you did not.
    Again, that's your opinion! I have answered you to the best of my ability as I understand it. I did not 'pretend'! You just did not like my answer!

    There's nothing I can not do if you don't know how to recognize riddles or puzzles about Jesus' identity. For example I've given this two years ago and yet no INC bothered to give the INC teaching or opinion.
    Do you know what you are saying??? By this you are removing the grace from our Lord Jesus Christ!

    This is the riddle in Mark 1

    1 The beginning of the good news[a] of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.[b]

    2 As it is written in the prophet Isaiah,[c]

    “See, I am sending my messenger ahead of you,[d]
    who will prepare your way;
    3
    the voice of one crying out in the wilderness:
    ‘Prepare the way of the Lord,
    make his paths straight,’”


    We read that and don't even bother to read Isaiah and Malachi where Mark got them. And we don't even bother why Mark said it is from Isaiah when they are from Isaiah and Malachi combined together which is a Jewish form of teaching called hekesh that combined verses from different books that deals with the same event or person.
    THAT'S NOT A RIDDLE! IT'S A PROPHESY!

    Back then people who understands the Scriptures might be able to get what Jesus is saying about, because the Scripture will arouse in them certain bible passages specially in the condition they are in as a nation. Most of the Jews at that time knew that they are under the 4th kingdom prophesied in Daniel 2 and 7, this is evident in the writings of Josephus. So yes some of them who have ears to hear and eyes to see can know what Jesus is doing. But for us disconnected in time, culture, language, idioms, and mode of speaking and writing the obvious answer is no.
    Again, it's not a matter of one's own understanding but a messenger has been given understanding which he imparts to the people!

    And this is why I can say that you don't get the riddle, like the pharisees and cribes of Jesus' time, you refuse to recognized it because it will break your tradition, your human tradition.
    We do not adhere to human traditions when it comes to religious doctrines. INC is an indigenous church so we practice Filipino tradition but not when it comes to faith and religious practice, we absolutely do not adhere to human practices!

    It is really simple kid. The rich man wants to know what He must do to inherit eternal life, Jesus told him that he knows the commandment and then listed the commandments about love thy neighbor, then the rich man said he have done them since childhood. But if you are going to think about Jesus's answer, He did not give the most important commandment that MUST be followed to inherit eternal life, He gave the 2nd to the greatest and then told the rich man that he still lack one thing, If there are only two great commandments, and they are ranked one and two, and the only commandment that Jesus mentioned is ranked number two, then what will be the logical answer to what the rich man is lacking? That is the question you keep evading to answer.
    Ferdie, yo are making this complicated! You are adding to the story! Your argument is SO WEAK! In the justice system people tend to keep quiet or they will incriminate themselves! Why do you make up stories?

    Making sense of what Jesus say ow what the Scriptures say is not going beyond what is written, kid. it is how we come to knowledge by giving reasonable meaning to what is written specially on passages that are not clear because of cultural, language and mode of expression distance from our own time.
    What Jesus said was crystal clear! The ONE THING that the man LACKED was to FOLLOW HIM, become a member of His church, walk around with Him and help in propagation; and in this regard, the man has to leave his riches and distribute them to the poor! Jesus DID NOT WITHHOLD ANYTHING!!! There was NO RIDDLE!!! SUSME!!!

    Why would Jesus be charged with blasphemy if what Jesus said about His identity is not blasphemous? What is blasphemous in admitting who really is? You don't have to answer that since I am planning to put that as my next topic to discuss, but you can if you want to answer it. That will pave the way for our transition to the topic of apparent Jesus' blasphemy.
    Jesus merely said the TRUTH that He is the Son of God! Now, these pharisees think like RCs: being that He is a Son of God, He is God as well. They are putting this in Christ's mouth. They are the ones blaspheming for thinking of something Christ DID NOT SAY!

    We are all given the grace to think and make our own decision. Is Jesus a liar, and lunatic or the Lord? In his trial before the Sanhedrin He left us with the option of who He is to us, is he a blasphemer as the Jews had labeled Him, or is He telling the truth of His identity as the DIVINE Son of God, therefore not a blasphemer? This is good transition point for my next argument for the divinity of Jesus, so let us talk about the trial of Jesus. We can use any of the synoptics on this but I choose Mark.
    Do you know what a "riddle" does? If that was not answered right, then the one who answered will not have a chance anymore? that is how you are removing the grace from Christ!

    Jesus before the Council

    53 They took Jesus to the high priest; and all the chief priests, the elders, and the scribes were assembled. 54 Peter had followed him at a distance, right into the courtyard of the high priest; and he was sitting with the guards, warming himself at the fire. 55 Now the chief priests and the whole council were looking for testimony against Jesus to put him to death; but they found none. 56 For many gave false testimony against him, and their testimony did not agree. 57 Some stood up and gave false testimony against him, saying, 58 “We heard him say, ‘I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and in three days I will build another, not made with hands.’” 59 But even on this point their testimony did not agree. 60 Then the high priest stood up before them and asked Jesus, “Have you no answer? What is it that they testify against you?” 61 But he was silent and did not answer. Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah,[j] the Son of the Blessed One?” 62 Jesus said, “I am; and

    ‘you will see the Son of Man
    seated at the right hand of the Power,’
    and ‘coming with the clouds of heaven.’”

    63 Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “Why do we still need witnesses? 64 You have heard his blasphemy! What is your decision?” All of them condemned him as deserving death. 65 Some began to spit on him, to blindfold him, and to strike him, saying to him, “Prophesy!” The guards also took him over and beat him.
    Why do you always misunderstand these stories!?!

  13. #333
    I answered this last night, but I decided not to post it since it will not move forward the discussion so i am just going to respond to what I think will move the discussion forward.

    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    THAT'S NOT A RIDDLE! IT'S A PROPHESY!
    Yes they are prophecies taken from two books, do you know that? Would you care to show us where Mark quoted Mark 1:2-3 and explain to us who fulfilled them and how they are fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    What Jesus said was crystal clear! The ONE THING that the man LACKED was to FOLLOW HIM, become a member of His church, walk around with Him and help in propagation; and in this regard, the man has to leave his riches and distribute them to the poor! Jesus DID NOT WITHHOLD ANYTHING!!! There was NO RIDDLE!!! SUSME!!!
    Ok this is the last time I am going to explain this. Jesus was talking about the 10 commandments that the rich man should follow to have eternal life but what is interesting is that Jesus listed only the commandments that deal with the LOVE OF NEIGHBOR. Now let me stop there and ask you, aren't you puzzled why Jesus would have list the love of neighbor which is second only to the love of God and then tell the rich man that he lacks ONE thing? Jesus in Matthew 22 said that there are only two great commandments and all the other commandments revolve in that two commandments. The Greatest is the love of God and the second is the love of neighbor. Remember that Jesus is talking about the commandments that God gave in mount Sinai. Why would Jesus leave the love of God and then tell the rich man that he lacks one thing. Think what Jesus left in the 10 commandments. He left the commandments about the love of God right? Wouldn't that be the logical answer? Yes it is! And Jesus is a logical person, He wouldn't change the 10 commandments since it is the commandments of God, but what is radical is Jesus is telling the rich man a NEW WAY of following the commandments to LOVE GOD, and that is to FOLLOW JESUS!!!

    “You lack one thing; go, sell what you own, and give the money[c] to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me.”

    How can that passage be interpreted without violating the commandments to lo1ve God? Think about it that passage can be interpreted to love Jesus with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your heart! Jesus is telling the rich man to give up everything and follow not God, not Yahweh but Him!!! That is the riddle, Jesus' identity! That is why we have a choice kid, either Jesus is a liar, a lunatic or the Lord. In Mark 10:21 either Jesus is a liar for claiming equality with God, a lunatic for thinking He is God. or He is the Lord with the right to tell the rich man to love Him with all his mind, with all his soul and with all his heart.

    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    Jesus merely said the TRUTH that He is the Son of God! Now, these pharisees think like RCs: being that He is a Son of God, He is God as well. They are putting this in Christ's mouth. They are the ones blaspheming for thinking of something Christ DID NOT SAY!
    We will discuss this kid.

    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    Do you know what a "riddle" does? If that was not answered right, then the one who answered will not have a chance anymore? that is how you are removing the grace from Christ!
    Anyone while alive have the chance to change their mind on who Jesus is.

    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    Why do you always misunderstand these stories!?!
    I don't and I will show you. Now answer the question

    60 Then the high priest stood up before them and asked Jesus, “Have you no answer? What is it that they testify against you?” 61 But he was silent and did not answer. Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah,[j] the Son of the Blessed One?” 62 Jesus said, “I am; and

    ‘you will see the Son of Man
    seated at the right hand of the Power,’
    and ‘coming with the clouds of heaven.’”

    63 Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “Why do we still need witnesses? 64 You have heard his blasphemy! What is your decision?” All of them condemned him as deserving death.


    What is blasphemous in Jesus' response? Let me just post this since Jesus was accused so many times of blasphemy and yet not once did Jesus correct them nor argue that he did not blaspheme.

    Jesus Accused of Blasphemy

    If Jesus did not claim to be God, why did the Jews accuse him repeatedly of blasphemy?

    It is strange that people in the 20th century read the words of Jesus in a translated language and say that Jesus never claim to be God when we are told clearly that the Jews of Jesus’ time, who heard the original sayings of Jesus in their language and in their context, understood that he was claiming to be God. Many times the Bible tells us that the Jews tried to kill Jesus precisely because they knew that he was claiming to be God.

    (John 10:33) “We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

    (Luke 5:21) The Pharisees and the teachers of the law began thinking to themselves, “Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

    (Mat 26:65) Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy.

    Therefore a person today who insists that Jesus did not claim to be God fails to appreciate the force of Jesus’ statement during the time it was spoken.

    Muslims have argued that the Jews may have misunderstood Jesus. They have interpreted his claims to be one of claiming equality with God when actually Jesus did not. But could the Jews have interpreted wrongly? We have to examine the cases one by one.

    In John 10, the Jews tried to kill Jesus because he claimed to be the Son of God (see verse 36). This is not a misunderstanding because we have seen above that Jesus’ sonship is no ordinary one and it carries the trademarks of deity. And the Jews understood this.

    In Luke 5, the Jews tried to kill Jesus because they understood his claim to be able to forgive sins to be a claim of equality with God. Again this is a valid interpretation. The Bible portrays God as the only One who can forgive sins. I am sure Muslim will agree that Allah is the only One who has the authority to forgive sins. Sure, we can forgive others for the wrong they did to us but we do not have the authority to forgive others for the wrong they did towards others and towards God. This is exactly what Jesus did. Is Jesus only proclaiming that person’s forgiveness in accordance with what the Father has instructed him? (John 12:49 For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it.) No, according to the text, this is not the case. Jesus was not merely proclaiming that person’s forgiveness. He said he possess the authority to actually forgive that person’s sins. (Luke 5:24 But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.)


    http://www.biblestudyresources.org/j...blasphemy.html

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferdinand View Post
    Now answer the question

    60 Then the high priest stood up before them and asked Jesus, “Have you no answer? What is it that they testify against you?” 61 But he was silent and did not answer. Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah,[j] the Son of the Blessed One?” 62 Jesus said, “I am; and

    ‘you will see the Son of Man
    seated at the right hand of the Power,’
    and ‘coming with the clouds of heaven.’”

    63 Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “Why do we still need witnesses? 64 You have heard his blasphemy! What is your decision?” All of them condemned him as deserving death.


    What is blasphemous in Jesus' response? Let me just post this since Jesus was accused so many times of blasphemy and yet not once did Jesus correct them nor argue that he did not blaspheme.

    Jesus Accused of Blasphemy

    If Jesus did not claim to be God, why did the Jews accuse him repeatedly of blasphemy?

    It is strange that people in the 20th century read the words of Jesus in a translated language and say that Jesus never claim to be God when we are told clearly that the Jews of Jesus’ time, who heard the original sayings of Jesus in their language and in their context, understood that he was claiming to be God. Many times the Bible tells us that the Jews tried to kill Jesus precisely because they knew that he was claiming to be God.

    (John 10:33) “We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

    (Luke 5:21) The Pharisees and the teachers of the law began thinking to themselves, “Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

    (Mat 26:65) Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy.

    Therefore a person today who insists that Jesus did not claim to be God fails to appreciate the force of Jesus’ statement during the time it was spoken.

    Muslims have argued that the Jews may have misunderstood Jesus. They have interpreted his claims to be one of claiming equality with God when actually Jesus did not. But could the Jews have interpreted wrongly? We have to examine the cases one by one.

    In John 10, the Jews tried to kill Jesus because he claimed to be the Son of God (see verse 36). This is not a misunderstanding because we have seen above that Jesus’ sonship is no ordinary one and it carries the trademarks of deity. And the Jews understood this.

    In Luke 5, the Jews tried to kill Jesus because they understood his claim to be able to forgive sins to be a claim of equality with God. Again this is a valid interpretation. The Bible portrays God as the only One who can forgive sins. I am sure Muslim will agree that Allah is the only One who has the authority to forgive sins. Sure, we can forgive others for the wrong they did to us but we do not have the authority to forgive others for the wrong they did towards others and towards God. This is exactly what Jesus did. Is Jesus only proclaiming that person’s forgiveness in accordance with what the Father has instructed him? (John 12:49 For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it.) No, according to the text, this is not the case. Jesus was not merely proclaiming that person’s forgiveness. He said he possess the authority to actually forgive that person’s sins. (Luke 5:24 But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.)


    http://www.biblestudyresources.org/j...blasphemy.html

    If a person has an open-mind for truth, in just a glance of John 10:30 he can immediately see that it was only the opinion or interpretation of those believing that Jesus is God in saying that this verse confirms that Jesus is God. Nothing in the verse that says “Jesus Christ is God”:

    John 10:30 NKJV
    “I and My Father are one.”

    Clearly, nowhere in the verse says that “Jesus is God.” It is only their interpretation (or should we say misinterpretation) or conclusion that the verse confirms that Jesus is God. Actually, if we carefully study the context, it clearly shows that Jesus is not talking about his “divinity.” Let us take a look of the previous verses of John 10:30:

    John 10:27-28 NKJV
    “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.”

    Here, the Lord Jesus promise that He will give His “sheep” eternal life, and “they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.” Then in the next verse (verse 29), this is what He said:

    John 10:29 NKJV
    “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.”

    The Lord Jesus said in verse 28 that “they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.” And in verse 29, He also said, “no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.” Thus, Jesus concluded in verse 30:

    John 10:30 NKJV
    “I and My Father are one.”

    Thus, the previous verses (verses 27-29) explained why Jesus said, “I and My Father are one.” Jesus and His Father (the one He referred to in John 17:1-3 as the “one and only true God) ARE ONE because as much as no one can snatch the “sheep” from His hand, also no one is able to snatch them out of His Father's hand. Therefore, the context of the verse shows us that Jesus is not talking about his alleged “divinity”, but He is talking about how He and His Father will take care of His “sheep” – no one can snatch them from their hands.


    WHAT OTHER TRANSLATIONS OF THIS VERSE SAY

    Based on the context of John 10:27-30, it is clear that the Lord Jesus is talking about how He and His Father are one in taking care of His sheep. Further strengthening this position, many versions of the Bible support our position that when Jesus said in John 10:30, “I and My Father are one,” He is not referring to His alleged divinity, but rather on how He and his Father are one in taking care of His sheep.


    THE MESSAGE:
    “I and the Father are one heart and mind.”

    CONTEMPORARY ENGLISH VERSION:
    “I am one with the Father.”

    SIMPLE ENGLISH BIBLE:
    “My Father and I are united.”

    LAMSA TRANSLATION:
    “I and My Father are of one accord.”


    WHAT THE OTHER VERSES OF THE BIBLE AFFIRM

    For the Iglesia Ni Cristo, Jesus is not talking about His alleged “divinity” in John 10:30, but rather on how He and His Father are one in taking care of His sheep. However, the proponents of Christ-is-God theology insist that Jesus statement in John 10:30 (“I and My Father are one”) is an admission that Jesus and the Father are “one in number,” “one in nature (state of being”), “one in power or authority,” and “being one God.”

    Saying that Jesus and the Father are “one in number,” “one in nature or state of being,” “one in power or authority,” and “being one God,” is truly UNSCRIPTURAL. The verse doesn’t say such things:

    John 10:30 NKJV
    “I and My Father are one.”

    The interpretation or conclusion of the proponents of “Christ is God” regarding Jesus’ statement in John 10:30 are not only unscriptural but also AGAINST THE TRUTH written in the Bible.


    Are Jesus and the Father one In Number?

    Nowhere in the verse that Jesus said “I and My Father are one IN NUMBER.” Actually, the interpretation that when Jesus said “I and my Father” means they are “one in number” contradicts the very words of the Lord Jesus in John 8:16-18:

    John 8:16-18 Amplified
    “Yet even if I do judge, My judgment is true [My decision is right]; for I am not alone [in making it], but [there are two of Us] I and the Father, Who sent Me.
    “In your [own] Law it is written that the testimony (evidence) of two persons is reliable and valid. [Deut. 19:15.]
    “I am One [of the Two] bearing testimony concerning Myself; and My Father, Who sent Me, He also testifies about Me.”

    Here, it is clear that Jesus and the Father are NOT ONE in number. Jesus explicitly said, “…for I am not alone [in making it], but [there are two of us] I and the Father…”


    Are Jesus and the Father one in state of being?

    It is also wrong to say that when the Lord Jesus said “I and My Father are one” they are one in nature or state of being. Jesus Himself explicitly said that the Father is spirit:

    John 4:23-24 NKJV
    “But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

    The Lord Jesus Christ attests that the Father is “spirit”, while Jesus Himself also attests that a spirit has no flesh and bones which He has:

    Luke 24:38-39 NKJV
    “And He said to them, "Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.’”

    Although Jesus is now in heaven, He continues to be flesh and bones or human in nature. This is what the Bible says regarding the one at God’s right hand in heaven:

    Psalms 80:17 NKJV
    “Let Your hand be upon the man of Your right hand, Upon the son of man whom You made strong for Yourself.”

    Jesus is the one referred to as the Man at God’s right hand:

    Colossians 3:1 NKJV
    “If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God.”


    Are Jesus and the Father one in power and authority?

    In the previous verse of John 10:30, this is what Jesus said:

    John 10:29 NKJV
    “My Father, who has given them to Me, IS GREATER THAN ALL; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.” (Emphasis mine)

    Jesus clearly said in John 10:29 that the Father is greater than all. Is Jesus co-equal of the Father? This is what Jesus Himself attested:

    John 14:28 Amplified
    “You heard Me tell you, I am going away and I am coming [back] to you. If you [really] loved Me, you would have been glad, because I am going to the Father; for the Father is greater and mightier than I am.”


    Are Jesus and the Father “one God”?

    The Lord Jesus Christ Himself does not agree in saying that He and His Father are “one God” because Jesus Himself taught us that His Father alone is the One and Only True God:

    John 17:1 and 3, The Message
    “Jesus said these things. Then, raising his eyes in prayer, he said:
    Father, it's time…
    “And this is the real and eternal life: That they know you, The one and only true God, And Jesus Christ, whom you sent.

    The Lord Jesus explicitly stated that the Father is the one and only true God, and He is whom sent by the One true God. These words of Jesus clearly refute the conclusion of the proponents of Christ-is-God theology regarding John 10:30.


    EVEN THE GREEK TEXT SUPPORTS OUR POSITION

    Our position that when the Lord Jesus said in John 10:30, “I and My Father are one,” He is not referring to His alleged divinity, but to how He and His Father are one in taking care of the His sheep is also supported by the Greek text of John 10:30. This is the Greek text of John 1:30:

    “ego kai pater en esmen”

    As translated: “ego” (“I”), “kai” (“and”), “pater” (“father”), “en” (“one”), and “esmen” (“are”). Thus, translated as “I and My Father are one.” Let us first take note that there are three equivalents in Greek of the English word “one” based on gender:

    eis (masculine)
    mia (feminine)
    en (neuter)

    The example in the New Testament of the used of these three Greek terms is in Ephesians 4:5:

    eis kurios (“one Lord”)
    mia pistis (“one faith”)
    en baptisma (“one baptism”)

    Take note that the word used in the Greek Text of John 10:30 which is equivalent of “one” in English is “en” (the “neuter adjective”). Thus, in the Greek Text of John 10:30, the equivalent of the English word “one” (the Greek “en”) doesn’t refer to Jesus and the Father. If the word “one” refers to Jesus and the Father, the verse should used the masculine “eis” instead of “en.”

    In the book The Pillar New Testament Commentary: The Gospel According to John, in page 394, the author D.A. Carson agreed that if the masculine “eis” is used this could refer to Christ and the Father and could meant that Christ and the Father are one in state of being or nature. However, because the neuter “en” was used instead, it shows that Jesus and the Father are “one accord” or one in objectives and actions.

    Let us examine how I Corinthians 3:8 used the Greek term “en”:

    I Corinthians 3:8 NKJV
    “Now HE WHO PLANTS AND HE WHO WATERS ARE ONE, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.” (Emphasis mine)

    The equivalent in the Greek text of the English word “one” here in I Corinthians 3:8 is the neuter “en” because the verse shows that Apostle Paul (“he who plants”) and Apolos (“he who waters”) are “one” in goal, objective or action. Thus, how the Greek term “en” is used in I Corinthians 3:8 is also the same as how it was used in John 10:30. The Greek term “en” (translated n English as “one”) not indicating that the two subject are “one in number,” “one in nature” or “one and the same,” BUT ONE IN GOAL, OBJECTIVE AND ACTION.


    CONCLUSION

    Thus, the context of John 10:27-30, the Greek Text of John 10:30, other English translations of the said verse, and the truth written in the Bible support and strengthen our position that the words of Jesus stating “I and My Father are one” refers not to the state of being or nature, not proving His alleged divinity, but that the Lord Jesus and the Father are one in taking care of the sheep.

    http://theiglesianicristo.blogspot.c...john-1030.html

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    If a person has an open-mind for truth, in just a glance of John 10:30 he can immediately see that it was only the opinion or interpretation of those believing that Jesus is God in saying that this verse confirms that Jesus is God. Nothing in the verse that says “Jesus Christ is God”:

    John 10:30 NKJV
    “I and My Father are one.”

    Clearly, nowhere in the verse says that “Jesus is God.” It is only their interpretation (or should we say misinterpretation) or conclusion that the verse confirms that Jesus is God. Actually, if we carefully study the context, it clearly shows that Jesus is not talking about his “divinity.” Let us take a look of the previous verses of John 10:30:

    John 10:27-28 NKJV
    “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.”

    Here, the Lord Jesus promise that He will give His “sheep” eternal life, and “they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.” Then in the next verse (verse 29), this is what He said:

    John 10:29 NKJV
    “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.”

    The Lord Jesus said in verse 28 that “they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.” And in verse 29, He also said, “no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.” Thus, Jesus concluded in verse 30:

    John 10:30 NKJV
    “I and My Father are one.”

    Thus, the previous verses (verses 27-29) explained why Jesus said, “I and My Father are one.” Jesus and His Father (the one He referred to in John 17:1-3 as the “one and only true God) ARE ONE because as much as no one can snatch the “sheep” from His hand, also no one is able to snatch them out of His Father's hand. Therefore, the context of the verse shows us that Jesus is not talking about his alleged “divinity”, but He is talking about how He and His Father will take care of His “sheep” – no one can snatch them from their hands.


    WHAT OTHER TRANSLATIONS OF THIS VERSE SAY

    Based on the context of John 10:27-30, it is clear that the Lord Jesus is talking about how He and His Father are one in taking care of His sheep. Further strengthening this position, many versions of the Bible support our position that when Jesus said in John 10:30, “I and My Father are one,” He is not referring to His alleged divinity, but rather on how He and his Father are one in taking care of His sheep.


    THE MESSAGE:
    “I and the Father are one heart and mind.”

    CONTEMPORARY ENGLISH VERSION:
    “I am one with the Father.”

    SIMPLE ENGLISH BIBLE:
    “My Father and I are united.”

    LAMSA TRANSLATION:
    “I and My Father are of one accord.”


    WHAT THE OTHER VERSES OF THE BIBLE AFFIRM

    For the Iglesia Ni Cristo, Jesus is not talking about His alleged “divinity” in John 10:30, but rather on how He and His Father are one in taking care of His sheep. However, the proponents of Christ-is-God theology insist that Jesus statement in John 10:30 (“I and My Father are one”) is an admission that Jesus and the Father are “one in number,” “one in nature (state of being”), “one in power or authority,” and “being one God.”

    Saying that Jesus and the Father are “one in number,” “one in nature or state of being,” “one in power or authority,” and “being one God,” is truly UNSCRIPTURAL. The verse doesn’t say such things:

    John 10:30 NKJV
    “I and My Father are one.”

    The interpretation or conclusion of the proponents of “Christ is God” regarding Jesus’ statement in John 10:30 are not only unscriptural but also AGAINST THE TRUTH written in the Bible.


    Are Jesus and the Father one In Number?

    Nowhere in the verse that Jesus said “I and My Father are one IN NUMBER.” Actually, the interpretation that when Jesus said “I and my Father” means they are “one in number” contradicts the very words of the Lord Jesus in John 8:16-18:

    John 8:16-18 Amplified
    “Yet even if I do judge, My judgment is true [My decision is right]; for I am not alone [in making it], but [there are two of Us] I and the Father, Who sent Me.
    “In your [own] Law it is written that the testimony (evidence) of two persons is reliable and valid. [Deut. 19:15.]
    “I am One [of the Two] bearing testimony concerning Myself; and My Father, Who sent Me, He also testifies about Me.”

    Here, it is clear that Jesus and the Father are NOT ONE in number. Jesus explicitly said, “…for I am not alone [in making it], but [there are two of us] I and the Father…”


    Are Jesus and the Father one in state of being?

    It is also wrong to say that when the Lord Jesus said “I and My Father are one” they are one in nature or state of being. Jesus Himself explicitly said that the Father is spirit:

    John 4:23-24 NKJV
    “But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

    The Lord Jesus Christ attests that the Father is “spirit”, while Jesus Himself also attests that a spirit has no flesh and bones which He has:

    Luke 24:38-39 NKJV
    “And He said to them, "Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.’”

    Although Jesus is now in heaven, He continues to be flesh and bones or human in nature. This is what the Bible says regarding the one at God’s right hand in heaven:

    Psalms 80:17 NKJV
    “Let Your hand be upon the man of Your right hand, Upon the son of man whom You made strong for Yourself.”

    Jesus is the one referred to as the Man at God’s right hand:

    Colossians 3:1 NKJV
    “If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God.”


    Are Jesus and the Father one in power and authority?

    In the previous verse of John 10:30, this is what Jesus said:

    John 10:29 NKJV
    “My Father, who has given them to Me, IS GREATER THAN ALL; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.” (Emphasis mine)

    Jesus clearly said in John 10:29 that the Father is greater than all. Is Jesus co-equal of the Father? This is what Jesus Himself attested:

    John 14:28 Amplified
    “You heard Me tell you, I am going away and I am coming [back] to you. If you [really] loved Me, you would have been glad, because I am going to the Father; for the Father is greater and mightier than I am.”


    Are Jesus and the Father “one God”?

    The Lord Jesus Christ Himself does not agree in saying that He and His Father are “one God” because Jesus Himself taught us that His Father alone is the One and Only True God:

    John 17:1 and 3, The Message
    “Jesus said these things. Then, raising his eyes in prayer, he said:
    Father, it's time…
    “And this is the real and eternal life: That they know you, The one and only true God, And Jesus Christ, whom you sent.

    The Lord Jesus explicitly stated that the Father is the one and only true God, and He is whom sent by the One true God. These words of Jesus clearly refute the conclusion of the proponents of Christ-is-God theology regarding John 10:30.


    EVEN THE GREEK TEXT SUPPORTS OUR POSITION

    Our position that when the Lord Jesus said in John 10:30, “I and My Father are one,” He is not referring to His alleged divinity, but to how He and His Father are one in taking care of the His sheep is also supported by the Greek text of John 10:30. This is the Greek text of John 1:30:

    “ego kai pater en esmen”

    As translated: “ego” (“I”), “kai” (“and”), “pater” (“father”), “en” (“one”), and “esmen” (“are”). Thus, translated as “I and My Father are one.” Let us first take note that there are three equivalents in Greek of the English word “one” based on gender:

    eis (masculine)
    mia (feminine)
    en (neuter)

    The example in the New Testament of the used of these three Greek terms is in Ephesians 4:5:

    eis kurios (“one Lord”)
    mia pistis (“one faith”)
    en baptisma (“one baptism”)

    Take note that the word used in the Greek Text of John 10:30 which is equivalent of “one” in English is “en” (the “neuter adjective”). Thus, in the Greek Text of John 10:30, the equivalent of the English word “one” (the Greek “en”) doesn’t refer to Jesus and the Father. If the word “one” refers to Jesus and the Father, the verse should used the masculine “eis” instead of “en.”

    In the book The Pillar New Testament Commentary: The Gospel According to John, in page 394, the author D.A. Carson agreed that if the masculine “eis” is used this could refer to Christ and the Father and could meant that Christ and the Father are one in state of being or nature. However, because the neuter “en” was used instead, it shows that Jesus and the Father are “one accord” or one in objectives and actions.

    Let us examine how I Corinthians 3:8 used the Greek term “en”:

    I Corinthians 3:8 NKJV
    “Now HE WHO PLANTS AND HE WHO WATERS ARE ONE, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.” (Emphasis mine)

    The equivalent in the Greek text of the English word “one” here in I Corinthians 3:8 is the neuter “en” because the verse shows that Apostle Paul (“he who plants”) and Apolos (“he who waters”) are “one” in goal, objective or action. Thus, how the Greek term “en” is used in I Corinthians 3:8 is also the same as how it was used in John 10:30. The Greek term “en” (translated n English as “one”) not indicating that the two subject are “one in number,” “one in nature” or “one and the same,” BUT ONE IN GOAL, OBJECTIVE AND ACTION.


    CONCLUSION

    Thus, the context of John 10:27-30, the Greek Text of John 10:30, other English translations of the said verse, and the truth written in the Bible support and strengthen our position that the words of Jesus stating “I and My Father are one” refers not to the state of being or nature, not proving His alleged divinity, but that the Lord Jesus and the Father are one in taking care of the sheep.

    http://theiglesianicristo.blogspot.c...john-1030.html
    kod, this is what I am talking about you EVADING THE QUESTION. Learn how to discuss, kid! I am on MARK 14:60-64, so let us discuss that passage. You can supplement your argument using other bible passages AFTER, and ONLY AFTER you have dealt with the passage in question! That is how you get the context of a passage!

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferdinand View Post
    kod, this is what I am talking about you EVADING THE QUESTION. Learn how to discuss, kid! I am on MARK 14:60-64, so let us discuss that passage. You can supplement your argument using other bible passages AFTER, and ONLY AFTER you have dealt with the passage in question! That is how you get the context of a passage!
    Bakit ka napu-frustrate, eh puro sa bible naman galing yang mga verse? Ang mga apostol ay IISA ang isip dahil IISA lang ang nagturo sa kanila, si Cristo, ang Teacher! I'm just laying all my cards to you now!

    Paano mo naman maiiba-iba ang mga isipan nila? Mabuti ngang malaman mo na ngayon na ganyan ang kahihinatnan ng diskusyon natin, unless na dahil pinagppiraso-piraso mo, magse-swerve ka na naman para maipilit lang ang mga maling doktrinang natutunan mo!

  17. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferdinand View Post
    The problem discussing with you is that you are not the type of person who discuss, you are the type of person who asserts. You don't want to deal with the problem.

    So let me repeat again and this time read and understand what I say. Don't just ASSERT YOUR BELIEF, deal with the problematic text from the Bible.

    The rich man wants to know what he MUST DO to inherit ETERNAL LIFE. Jesus said that the rich man knows the commandments and listed down only the part that deals with the love of neighbor

    ‘You shall not kill;
    you shall not commit adultery;
    you shall not steal;
    you shall not bear false witness;
    you shall not defraud;
    honor your father and your mother.’”

    The rich man said he have done those commandments that Jesus listed.

    Now this is the interesting part, and I want you to pay good attention to this. Remember that Jesus is talking about the following the commandments of God to inherit eternal life and is just curious that He did not list down the GREATEST commandments the deals with the LOVE OF GOD. Had Jesus left us with this statement "you lack one thing", what will be the logical answer to fill in the blank?

    "You lack one thing"What is that one thing in the commandment of God that the rich man lacks?

    Be intellectually honest kidlat and deal with the problematic text, do not just assert your INC belief.
    I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING and I'm saying that you are wrong! I do not agree with you! WHY don't I agree with you?

    The fact that Christ did not mention what you're saying as the first few commandments that you are JUST CURIOUS as to why he "did not list the greatest commandments that deal with the love of God" only means He wasn't talking about that at the moment! Why did He ask the man to "FOLLOW HIM"? It is because He wants to TEACH HIM MORE and NOT IMPLY THAT HE IS GOD!

    I may not be intelligent but I am NOT PRESUMPTUOUS. Being presumptuous is not being intelligent - it is being ARROGANT! That is what RCC built the foundation of her doctrines, through ARROGANCE, IMPERTINENCE, being disrespectful to God! And in this case, YOU ARE BEING DISRESPECTFUL to Christ and go to as far as saying He gave the man a riddle!!!

    Proverbs 8:13
    New Living Translation
    All who fear the LORD will hate evil. Therefore, I hate pride and arrogance, corruption and perverse speech.

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by KidlatNgayon View Post
    Bakit ka napu-frustrate, eh puro sa bible naman galing yang mga verse? Ang mga apostol ay IISA ang isip dahil IISA lang ang nagturo sa kanila, si Cristo, ang Teacher! I'm just laying all my cards to you now!

    Paano mo naman maiiba-iba ang mga isipan nila? Mabuti ngang malaman mo na ngayon na ganyan ang kahihinatnan ng diskusyon natin, unless na dahil pinagppiraso-piraso mo, magse-swerve ka na naman para maipilit lang ang mga maling doktrinang natutunan mo!
    So no comment ka dun sa mismong text?

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferdinand View Post
    So no comment ka dun sa mismong text?
    The text is perfect. Your understanding, as far as I'm concerned, is WRONG! Jesus NEVER IMPLIED there that He is God. As I said before, bago Niya i-imply yan dyan sa lalaki, sa mga Apostol muna Niya dapat ginawa yan at WALA SIYANG ITINURO sa mga apostol Niya na Siya ang Diyos. Ang alam ng mga apostol Niya (na itinuro Niya) Siya ay taong anak ng Diyos, Siya ang Tagapamagitan, Siya ang Tagapagligtas ng katawan Niya o Iglesia!

    Matthew 16:13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, He questioned His disciples: “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

    14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

    15 “But what about you? Jesus asked. “Who do you say I am?”

    16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

    17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven.

    ^Now did Jesus reveal this to Simon Peter? No! Correct?

    At that time Jesus was HUMAN, correct? (He is always human but to make a point with your doctrine, I'm asking if at that time that He was asking this to His apostles), He was human right?

    Based on the answers from the other apostles, no one said that Jesus is God, correct? So no one, not the people, not the apostles, said or even thought that Christ was God!


    Jesus happily accepted the answer that He is CHRIST or MESSIAH, the SON of the Living God (existing God, not a symbol)!

  20. #340
    He accepted to be the messiah? So why was He accused of blasphemy and why o why did He not corrected and argue with them that He did not blaspheme?

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