PBA 38th Season - 38 Greatest Players (naming the other 13)

[poknut]

For sure PBA will come up with the other 25 greatest players on it's 50th anniversary. But on the 38th season of the PBA, who do you think is the other 13 greatest players to complete the 38 list?

Current 25:
1. Johnny Abarrientos
2. Bogs Adornado
3. Ato Agustin
4. Francis Arnaiz
5. Ricardo Brown
6. Allan Caidic
7. Hector Calma
8. Philip Cezar
9. Atoy Co
10. Jerry Codinera
11. Kenneth Duremdes
12. Bernie Fabiosa
13. Ramon Fernandez
14. Danny Florencio
15. Alberto Guidaben
16. Freddie Hubalde
17. Robert Jaworski
18. Jojo Lastimosa
19. Lim Eng Beng
20. Samboy Lim
21. Ronnie Magsanoc
22. Vergel Meneses
23. Manny Paner
24. Alvin Patrimonio
25. Benjie Paras

Other 13:
1. Danny Ildefonso
2. Willlie Miller
3. Asi Taulava
4. Eric Menk
5. Mark Caguioa
6. James Yap
7. Kelly Williams
8. Jayjay Helterbrand
9. Jimmy Alapag
10. Danny Seigle
11. Marlou Aquino
12. Jeffrey Cariaso
13. Nelson Asaytono

Hard Choices: Bong Hawkins, Jun Limpot, Olsen Racela, Vic Pablo, Dennis Espino, Bal David, Noli Locsin, Dindo Pumaren

Maybe on the next 12 list: Arwind Santos, Gary David, Sonny Thoss, Keryby Raymundo, LA Tenorio, Jason Castro, Paul Lee, Marcio Lassiter, + 4 upcoming superstars in the next 12 years hehe.

[Loofee]

^^^ Let me guess you're a Ginebra fan, right?

There's no way Marlou Aquino should be included in the 13. I respect the achievements of Jaworski's boys - Aquino, Locsin and David but if you compare what they have achieved - championships, individual awards...they pale in comparison to the likes of Hawkins and Racela. Heck, you can add up all of the titles they've won in their respective careers and Hawkins still ends up with more.

Of the 13, 9 are shoo-ins...they are:

1. Mark Caguioa
2. Danny Ildefonso
3. Danny Seigle
4. Asi Taulava
5. Eric Menk
6. Kelly Williams
7. Nelson Asaytono
8. Bong Hawkins
9. James Yap

If I'm not mistaken, the results of the voting for the 1st 25 had Hawkins at no.26 and Asaytono at 27, both narrowly missing the list. It is a travesty to them if the younger guys can get there when they cannot.

The last 4 spots are to be contested among:

1. Jayjay Helterbrand
2. Jimmy Alapag
3. Willie Miller
4. Olsen Racela
and surprise entry...5. Arwind Santos

I am not a Santos fan but I feel his credentials speaks for itself. Among the players that won the MVP for the last decade, who had more Mythical and Defensive team citations than Santos? NONE. The wiry Petron forward has been in the Mythical 1st team in 5 of the 6 years he's played in the PBA as he was relegated to the 2nd team in his rookie season. Santos was also named to 6 consecutive Defensive teams...the most of any active player and tied for 4th most all time.

Among the 4, Miller drops out of the list. Why? Although he was MVP twice...those have asterisk marks on it. Davonn Harp deserves the 2002 MVP more than Miller. IMO, he had the worst MVP-winning season. On the other hand, the 2006-07 MVP was handed to Miller, simply by a technicality. Caguioa, Seigle and Hatfield were the Top 3 candidates for the MVP after the All Filipino that year. Caguioa and Seigle eventually played in the National team while Hatfield went back to the US for some personal reasons. All 3 didn't meet the 70% games played requirement to be included in the MVP short list which paved the way for Miller (who ranked 4th) to claim the coveted award.

With those MVPs set aside, I consider the resumes of Alapag, Helterbrand, Racela and Santos as more impressive.

[Carangian]

1. Bong Hawkins
2. Nelson Asaytono
3. Olsen Racela
4. Danny Ildefonso
5. Danny Seigle
6. Eric Menk
7. Asi Taulava
8. James Yap
9. Mark Caguioa
10. Dennis Espino
11. Jun Limpot
12. Jeff Cariaso
13. Marlou Aquino

[fernando_hierro]

^^^ Let me guess you're a Ginebra fan, right?

There's no way Marlou Aquino should be included in the 13. I respect the achievements of Jaworski's boys - Aquino, Locsin and David but if you compare what they have achieved - championships, individual awards...they pale in comparison to the likes of Hawkins and Racela. Heck, you can add up all of the titles they've won in their respective careers and Hawkins still ends up with more.

Of the 13, 9 are shoo-ins...they are:

1. Mark Caguioa
2. Danny Ildefonso
3. Danny Seigle
4. Asi Taulava
5. Eric Menk
6. Kelly Williams
7. Nelson Asaytono
8. Bong Hawkins
9. James Yap

If I'm not mistaken, the results of the voting for the 1st 25 had Hawkins at no.26 and Asaytono at 27, both narrowly missing the list. It is a travesty to them if the younger guys can get there when they cannot.

The last 4 spots are to be contested among:

1. Jayjay Helterbrand
2. Jimmy Alapag
3. Willie Miller
4. Olsen Racela
and surprise entry...5. Arwind Santos

I am not a Santos fan but I feel his credentials speaks for itself. Among the players that won the MVP for the last decade, who had more Mythical and Defensive team citations than Santos? NONE. The wiry Petron forward has been in the Mythical 1st team in 5 of the 6 years he's played in the PBA as he was relegated to the 2nd team in his rookie season. Santos was also named to 6 consecutive Defensive teams...the most of any active player and tied for 4th most all time.

Among the 4, Miller drops out of the list. Why? Although he was MVP twice...those have asterisk marks on it. Davonn Harp deserves the 2002 MVP more than Miller. IMO, he had the worst MVP-winning season. On the other hand, the 2006-07 MVP was handed to Miller, simply by a technicality. Caguioa, Seigle and Hatfield were the Top 3 candidates for the MVP after the All Filipino that year. Caguioa and Seigle eventually played in the National team while Hatfield went back to the US for some personal reasons. All 3 didn't meet the 70% games played requirement to be included in the MVP short list which paved the way for Miller (who ranked 4th) to claim the coveted award.

With those MVPs set aside, I consider the resumes of Alapag, Helterbrand, Racela and Santos as more impressive.

If you put an asterisk on Miller, all the more you should put an asterisk on Helterbrand. He won MVP but did not give his team any title that year. Miller won MVPs and won titles in each year. Miller is still an A class player while Helterbrand is over the hill, if not down the hill...

[Loofee]

As usual you have something to say against an SMC player...nothing new. When Miller won those championships, most of the best players in the PBA are out playing for the flag. He was excluded obviously because there is someone better in his position. It would've been a shame if his teams didn't win the title since they were almost intact. Pennisi missed Redbull's defense of the 2002 Commissioner's Cup while it was Tony Dela Cruz who missed Alaska's championship in 2007 Fiesta conference. Had prime Asi Taulava played for Talk n' Text in that 2002 Finals...the result would've been different. Same with Taulava, Alapag and Ritualo who missed the Finals vs Alaska.

Moreover Helterbrand finished 3rd in stats overall in his MVP year and led Ginebra to a Finals appearance. Ginebra took the fight to a dominant Gabe Freeman-led SMB and at one point led 3-2 in the Finals. He was brilliant all season long.

Miller had a so-so season when he won his 1st MVP. He's not even the best player of his squad. He bagged the MVP because he was the most famous local player of a team that won a championship that year....or in short there was simply no choice. His 2nd MVP was brought on by a technicality and I know you're well aware of it being an Alaska fan. He has NO CHANCE of winning the MVP had Caguioa, Seigle and Hatfield complied the 70% rule. Alaska may have won a less prestigious title but were outright eliminated in the All Filipino, considered to be the "real deal".

There's no denying Helterbrand is way past his prime and should be retired while Miller has 2 or 3 more years from his tank but when I look at what they have achieved, what they have won in the course of their respective careers...Jayjay comes out on top.

[legendpba]

^para sakin mas magaling pa rin si miller at mas maraming achievements. from his redbull days to talkntext and to alaska.. it seems endless not until he was traded to ginebra. sorry to say pero bul0k coach ng ginebra dati i wont mention it. also pangit system. kaya si miller nadiskaril sa kanyang tunay na laro which is an isolation but with his teammates rotating always just like in alaska.. while helterbrand is so many awards because hes with ginebra he is still no match on miller on what he did to other franchises.

[legendpba]

other 13 for me would be.

1.miller
2.taulava
3.tenorio
4.seigle
5.ildefonso
6.james yap
7. alapag
8. caguioa
9.helterbrand
10.hawkins
11.asaytono
12.eric menk
13.bong ravena

[sydrified]

1. asi taulava
2. danny ildefonso
3. willie miller
4. nelson asaytono
5. eric menk
6. jimmy alapag
7. james yap
8. danny seigle
9. bong hawkins
10. mark caguioa
11. marlou aquino
12. jeffrey cariaso
13. jayjay helterbrand

[Loofee]

Napakamot ako ng ulo dito ah...Nandito na naman yung kumakausap sa sarili. At talagang sumang-ayon pa sa sarili nya. Tumira ka muna ng Droperidol bago mo ako kausapin...nag-lapse na naman lucid interval mo.

[Jay P. Mercado]

I think it's easy to determine the first 9 in the list simply because we all just have to include the MVP awardees from 2000 to the present. Hence, the following are automatically in:

1. Danny Ildefonso
2. Willie Miller
3. Asi Taulava
4. Eric Menk
5. James Yap
6. Kelly Williams
7. Jayjay Helterbrand
8. Jimmy Alapag
9. Mark Caguioa

The 4 slots would be difficult. I would still bat for the inclusion of Nelson Asaytono, Abe King and Arnie Tuadles though. These people were forgotten in the initial Top 25 list. They would deserve an inclusion in the next list, perhaps the Top 50. From the more recent set of players, those that would get serious consideration are Danny Seigle, Olsen Racela, Bong Hawkins and Dindo Pumaren.

[PandacanGiants]

1. Danny Ildefonso
2. Willie Miller
3. Asi Taulava
4. Eric Menk
5. James Yap
6. Kelly Williams
7. Jayjay Helterbrand
8. Jimmy Alapag
9. Mark Caguioa
10. Danny Seigle
11. Nelson Asaytono
12. Abe King
13. Arnie Tuadles

[sydrified]

oo nga no.

as much as i like cariaso, i'll trade his spot for kelly williams.

i remember when the list first started, mvp winners are automatic insertions. that's why duremdes got a nod despite his then-short pba career.

[Jess24]

Given na yung 9 spots to the MVP winners. 4 na lang ang pipiliin.

My choices are pretty easy: Nelson Asaytono, Danny Seigle, Arnie Tuadles and Abe King. Tuadles and King were clear snubs from the 1st list, while Asaytono and Seigle are arguably the most talented players who are non-MVP winners in their eras.

[plucker_08]

other 13 for me would be.

1.miller
2.taulava
3.tenorio
4.seigle
5.ildefonso
6.james yap
7. alapag
8. caguioa
9.helterbrand
10.hawkins
11.asaytono
12.eric menk
13.bong ravena

Seriously? Bong Ravena? haha

For me, MVPs should be included in this list
1. Danny Ildefonso
2. Willie Miller
3. Asi Taulava
4. Eric Menk
5. James Yap
6. Kelly Williams
7. Jayjay Helterbrand
8. Jimmy Alapag
9. Mark Caguioa

The other four would be for the players na muntik na mag MVP.
10. Nelson Asaytono
11. Bong Hawkins
12. Marlou Aquino
13. Danny Seigle

[Jay P. Mercado]

Given na yung 9 spots to the MVP winners. 4 na lang ang pipiliin.

My choices are pretty easy: Nelson Asaytono, Danny Seigle, Arnie Tuadles and Abe King. Tuadles and King were clear snubs from the 1st list, while Asaytono and Seigle are arguably the most talented players who are non-MVP winners in their eras.

Yes, this is a start. I think we need to recognize those that didn't meet the initial grade the last time around - they were equally deserving but there were simply more choices than slots. Danny Seigle is the worthiest non-MVP starting year 2000 to be included in the list so he should be the priority among the present set of players.

Next to follow would be the likes of Racela, Dindo Pumaren, Bong Hawkins, Rudy Hatfield, Jeffrey Cariaso, and maybe Dennis Espino...

[oyen_invader]

Napakamot ako ng ulo dito ah...Nandito na naman yung kumakausap sa sarili. At talagang sumang-ayon pa sa sarili nya. Tumira ka muna ng Droperidol bago mo ako kausapin...nag-lapse na naman lucid interval mo.

ayun, banned na tuloy..

[jacel27]

Given na yung 9 spots to the MVP winners. 4 na lang ang pipiliin.

My choices are pretty easy: Nelson Asaytono, Danny Seigle, Arnie Tuadles and Abe King. Tuadles and King were clear snubs from the 1st list, while Asaytono and Seigle are arguably the most talented players who are non-MVP winners in their eras.

Ditto.

Pero kung sakaling hindi na iko-consider si King and Tuadles, for me, ang pwedeng pumalit sa kanila si Racela at Hawkins

[asero]

no love for arwind santos? The guy is about to break Jerry Codinera's record as defensive team for most years.

Also runner-up for MVP couple of times

[tagor61]

no love for arwind santos? The guy is about to break Jerry Codinera's record as defensive team for most years.

Also runner-up for MVP couple of times

Jerry Codiñera is a proven winner! Even if he breaks Jerry's record, I think Arwind needs to win a MVP to be included or win multiple championships! That's my opinion!