About Jay Washington.

[roundtablepizza]

No offense to some of you, but I've observed that when a player isn't playing well in the most recent conference/tournament, you immediately say he's not a good player. I think that's a little bit unfair. What's nice about TS' post, he enumerated, assuming the data is accurate, what JWash did in his career in the PBA. That I think is the best way to assess a player. The anaylsis though, for me, is highly debatable.

By the way, may I know the point of contention in this thread? Kasi pwede magiba ang opinyon ng isang tao depende sa pinaguusapan.

Is this a question of who is better, Washington or Arwind?
Is this a question on who should be traded or who should stay between JWash and Arwind?
Is this a question on why Petron isn't successful this year, in spite of having a star-studded lineup?

If this is only about JWash as a player, I highly disagree that he's only a 6th man material. If we're having this conversation say, when he won his 1st or the 2nd BPC, I highly doubt most of you would view him as a 6th man. Having two BPC's contradicts the very essence of a 6th man. In addition, his accolades even include these: Mythical First Team 2009-2010, 2008-2009, 2006-2007; Mythical Second Team 2010-2011.

If we're going to compare JWash to Arwind, they're pretty similar yet different. Not really apples and oranges, BUT I give an edge to Arwind because he's the more complete player than Jay. JWash lacks the kind of defense(blocks and steals) that Arwind provides, but the latter lacks JWash's takeover mentality. Point production and rebounding are almost the same.

If the question is about who to trade between the two, that will depend on the system(or the need of the team) of the new coach as well as what they can acquire in the upcoming draft or thru trades. Petron is going to get Fajardo at #1 which means more scoring options and rebounding. If Alaska picks Abueva at #2, would it be logical to immediately say that Hodge should be taken at #3, considering they already have a similar talent in Arwind? If they get Cliff, would it be more beneficial to get rid of JWash so that defense won't suffer if one is on the court and the other is on the bench? There are so many things to consider and it's quite complicated if you will factor almost everything.

Now if we're talking about the failures of Petron, that achievement will definitely fall on the coach. Sorry to say but Ato Agustin failed his team. Sabi ko nga dati, mukhang nakachamba lang siya nung isang 3rd conference against TNT at hindi na naulit. He himself admitted "Pati na rin sa plays, a lot of times nagkakanya-kanya, particularly sa fourth quarter kaya madalas doon kami nag-co-collapse". As a coach he has control over this by putting in the players who are willing to execute the plays. Kung kelangan ibangko si Arwind, si JWash or kung sino man player, dapat ginawa niya para lang ma sustain yung laro. Most likely he already has an idea on who has the tendency to go at it alone and who's willing to sacrifice, but didn't do anything about it.

[Carangian]

No offense to some of you, but I've observed that when a player isn't playing well in the most recent conference/tournament, you immediately say he's not a good player. I think that's a little bit unfair. What's nice about TS' post, he enumerated, assuming the data is accurate, what JWash did in his career in the PBA. That I think is the best way to assess a player. The anaylsis though, for me, is highly debatable.

By the way, may I know the point of contention in this thread? Kasi pwede magiba ang opinyon ng isang tao depende sa pinaguusapan.

Is this a question of who is better, Washington or Arwind?
Is this a question on who should be traded or who should stay between JWash and Arwind?
Is this a question on why Petron isn't successful this year, in spite of having a star-studded lineup?

If this is only about JWash as a player, I highly disagree that he's only a 6th man material. If we're having this conversation say, when he won his 1st or the 2nd BPC, I highly doubt most of you would view him as a 6th man. Having two BPC's contradicts the very essence of a 6th man. In addition, his accolades even include these: Mythical First Team 2009-2010, 2008-2009, 2006-2007; Mythical Second Team 2010-2011.

If we're going to compare JWash to Arwind, they're pretty similar yet different. Not really apples and oranges, BUT I give an edge to Arwind because he's the more complete player than Jay. JWash lacks the kind of defense(blocks and steals) that Arwind provides, but the latter lacks JWash's takeover mentality. Point production and rebounding are almost the same.

If the question is about who to trade between the two, that will depend on the system(or the need of the team) of the new coach as well as what they can acquire in the upcoming draft or thru trades. Petron is going to get Fajardo at #1 which means more scoring options and rebounding. If Alaska picks Abueva at #2, would it be logical to immediately say that Hodge should be taken at #3, considering they already have a similar talent in Arwind? If they get Cliff, would it be more beneficial to get rid of JWash so that defense won't suffer if one is on the court and the other is on the bench? There are so many things to consider and it's quite complicated if you will factor almost everything.

Now if we're talking about the failures of Petron, that achievement will definitely fall on the coach. Sorry to say but Ato Agustin failed his team. Sabi ko nga dati, mukhang nakachamba lang siya nung isang 3rd conference against TNT at hindi na naulit. He himself admitted "Pati na rin sa plays, a lot of times nagkakanya-kanya, particularly sa fourth quarter kaya madalas doon kami nag-co-collapse". As a coach he has control over this by putting in the players who are willing to execute the plays. Kung kelangan ibangko si Arwind, si JWash or kung sino man player, dapat ginawa niya para lang ma sustain yung laro. Most likely he already has an idea on who has the tendency to go at it alone and who's willing to sacrifice, but didn't do anything about it.

Very well said....

[cheche_bureche]

nice post RTP

JWash is really a takeover kind of guy kaya nga i like him better then Arwind mas lalo na sa crucial stages ng game.

i still like Jay as a player pero i don't kknow why Arwind and him can't play together... sabi nga ni Jay na Arwind complements his game, pero Arwind thinks otherwise. :/

[legendpba]

the problem with jwash is he is lost on his role. kailangan lang ni jwashington ng isang coach na magbibigay sa kanya ng isang specific role na gagawin nya sa isang game. for example. game against ginebra tomorrow. coach ATO tells jwash that he is the best powerforward in the pba and reminds him that tomorrows game. all he has to do is boxout and rebound the ball always.

its about roles in the game. kapag nasabihan si jwash na ganito ang role nya then susunod ito. ganito rin sa nba. si lebron may specific role. score sya sa 3rd quarter 2nd quarter kay wade.. nasa coaching staff ito. hindi ito kay jwash at arwind santos.