Academic ranking of world universities

[arkheM]

Duke attracts some of the best UNDERGRADUATES nationwide and worldwide. At the graduate level it is about even, with UNC having the edge in several departments.

I wonder which department is UNC viewed as superior to Duke.

As far as I am concern, Duke > UNC both at the undergrad and postgrad levels.

Duke vs Berkeley would be interesting as Duke has a slight edge at the undergrad level, but Berkeley would eat Duke alive for almost everything else.

[arkheM]

Only public schools are given research money by the Federal Government in massive quantities because most private schools are affiliated with a Christian denomination, hence separation of church and state issues prevent the federal government from supporting private research institutions directly. A school like Duke must rely on its alumni base for donations.

No; That isn't true. In fact, the school receiving the most from the federal grant funds is Johns Hopkins University, which is a private school. And, Duke ranked 6th. Here's the list.


top 100 universities in federal research grants: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R41895.pdf
(All institutions $25,335,978)

Rank / Institution / All agencies

1 Johns Hopkins University 1,186,768
2 University of Washington 612,498
3 University of Michigan 501,837
4 University of Pennsylvania 498,549
5 University of California, Los Angeles 480,679
6 Duke University 470,842
7 University of California, San Diego 433,801
8 University of California, San Francisco 433,388
9 Harvard University 429,693
10 University of Pittsburgh all campuses 426,764
11 Columbia University, City of New York 426,399
12 Stanford University 425,931
13 Washington University, St Louis 407,809
14 Yale University 387,298
15 Massachusetts Institute of Technology 381,753
16 University of Minnesota 371,293
17 University of Wisconsin, Madison 369,310
18 Pennsylvania State University 355,300
19 University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill 353,478
20 Vanderbilt University 331,244
21 University of Colorado 330,323
22 Cornell University 326,385
23 Case Western Reserve University 278,897
24 University of Southern California 262,180
25 University of Rochester 255,201
26 Northwestern University 254,969
27 University of Chicago 248,571
28 Emory University 247,941
29 University of California, Davis 243,149
30 University of Alabama, Birmingham 235,077


Notice that 17 of the top 30 schools receiving grants from the federal government are private schools. In the latest report (which I still am finding at the moment) Harvard took the number 2 spot already.

[christian5327]

No; That isn't true. In fact, the school receiving the most from the federal grant funds is Johns Hopkins University, which is a private school. And, Duke ranked 6th. Here's the list.


top 100 universities in federal research grants: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R41895.pdf
(All institutions $25,335,978)

Rank / Institution / All agencies

1 Johns Hopkins University 1,186,768
2 University of Washington 612,498
3 University of Michigan 501,837
4 University of Pennsylvania 498,549
5 University of California, Los Angeles 480,679
6 Duke University 470,842
7 University of California, San Diego 433,801
8 University of California, San Francisco 433,388
9 Harvard University 429,693
10 University of Pittsburgh all campuses 426,764
11 Columbia University, City of New York 426,399
12 Stanford University 425,931
13 Washington University, St Louis 407,809
14 Yale University 387,298
15 Massachusetts Institute of Technology 381,753
16 University of Minnesota 371,293
17 University of Wisconsin, Madison 369,310
18 Pennsylvania State University 355,300
19 University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill 353,478
20 Vanderbilt University 331,244
21 University of Colorado 330,323
22 Cornell University 326,385
23 Case Western Reserve University 278,897
24 University of Southern California 262,180
25 University of Rochester 255,201
26 Northwestern University 254,969
27 University of Chicago 248,571
28 Emory University 247,941
29 University of California, Davis 243,149
30 University of Alabama, Birmingham 235,077


Notice that 17 of the top 30 schools receiving grants from the federal government are private schools. In the latest report (which I still am finding at the moment) Harvard took the number 2 spot already.

Wrong. This is outdated and very inaccurate. University of Washington receives the most Federal money and is the first to reach billion dollar mark. Go to wikipedia and check entry for UW.

[christian5327]

UW past billion mark already. Any university that still has an official religious affiliation does not receive Federal Grants. Duke was founded as a protestant institution and so were Harvard and Yale but since then they are nondenominational and non-religious. This is difficult to understand in systems where private schools still actively retain their religious affiliations. Notice in the above list that Notre Dame and Catholic University of America are not included, though they are both major research institutions.

[christian5327]

This is outdated. UW now at over $1 billion.

[christian5327]

Wrong. This is outdated and very inaccurate. University of Washington receives the most Federal money and is the first to reach billion dollar mark. Go to wikipedia and check entry for UW.

correction: first public school to reach $1 billion. These figures are accurate but not current.

[TTJ]

christian,what happened to raquel?

[christian5327]

I wonder which department is UNC viewed as superior to Duke.

As far as I am concern, Duke > UNC both at the undergrad and postgrad levels.

Duke vs Berkeley would be interesting as Duke has a slight edge at the undergrad level, but Berkeley would eat Duke alive for almost everything else.

UNC programs: graduate and professional
school of medicine--#2 in primary care, #2 family medicine
#2 clinical psychology
audiology #3
pharmacy #2
social work #5
MPA urban affairs #6

[christian5327]

christian,what happened to raquel?

She's here in Seattle with me. Over the past 9 years she has gained management experience. She cracked 40k in her best year selling Avon and being an assistant manager at Jack in the Box. She is transitioning now into the post office. She will be enrolled either at the UW or UNLV or Georgia State for photography. Not bad for a person from humble beginnings.

[quwertii]

Expect na bumagsak pa ang ranking ng Pinas dyan. Board exam-mentality ang umiiral sa karamihan ng mga schools natin dito syempre panghatak ng enrollees. Bakit nga naman sila mag-iinvest sa mamahaling research laboratories kung pede naman puro theory lang na pangboard exam ang ituro nila.

[christian5327]

UNC programs: graduate and professional
school of medicine--#2 in primary care, #2 family medicine
#2 clinical psychology
audiology #3
pharmacy #2
social work #5
MPA urban affairs #6

Berkeley is so POWERFUL that it even crushes Harvard, MIT, Yale, Caltech, Princeton and Chicago in various departments. Berkeley is the true sleeping giant of academics.

[rac_enroll]

DOST has a not so good budget as well. Many, if not majority, of their high-tech equipment, gadgets, apparatus, tools etc are not self-made, but purchased, or donated.

But still, DOST + UP System, both government institutions, hold more or less 50% of all the researches in the Philippines. The other institution with a good number of research outputs published on international journals, is IRRI.

Baligtad sa US and other wealthy countries. Private universities and the private sector holds bulk of the research output in their country. A small percentage, though amounting to billions of dollars, come only from government institutions. So no wonder they have (or they had) a fruitful, competitive economy.

Going back to university research outputs, in the Philippines, most universities' priority is to teach only. Universities should be the source of knowledge - new knowledge, for the benefit of the society. That is why aside from teaching, they should do research and extension programs as well, just like what UP is currently doing despite the challenges in the budget.

For the private universities, it is ok for them to provide diplomas to their paying students, see them join good companies or work abroad as OFWs, obtain high passing rates in board exams.

[christian5327]

Oh no. I beg to disagree with you on Duke being more prestigious than Berkeley. Duke may have the upper hand at the undergrad level but the difference isn't that big. Many students are turning down Duke for Berkeley despite having been offered a scholarship at Duke. Berkeley has the better, superior grad/postgrad education, as well as, professional education. Berkeley has the better law school, business school and engineering school.

The Berkeley name is a top brand name worldwide. Duke is only well-recognized in America. Berkeley has the brand cache that Duke doesn't. All international league tables would tell that Berkeley is head-and-shoulders superior to Duke in academic prestige and brand name power in America or anywhere on the face of the earth.


What about post-graduates themselves, who might be expected to know better than others what schools are prestigious, given that they applied to schools at least twice (for undergraduate and graduate work) and most likely spent a good deal of time evaluating schools? Here's the list of schools most often mentioned by college graduates with at least some post-graduate education:

Harvard - 29%
Stanford - 27
Yale - 14
MIT -11
Berkeley - 7
Princeton - 7
Michigan - 7

http://www.gallup.com/poll/9109/harv...es-public.aspx

Duke is more of a name brand than Berkeley even though Berkeley is world renowned for its innovative research. The reason? Duke has a very strong marketing/advertising department for its name while Berkeley is reputation research word of mouth. Remember, Berkeley doesn't really advertise for it is a state school that fulfills a role for its state residents. Duke has to be aggressive in order to get students worldwide so its marketing and recruiting are very aggressive. Duke is the flashy Rolex to Berkeley's Patek Philippe.

[christian5327]

Sa research arena hindi na mga high school investigatory projects ang pinag-uusapan. Walang interesado dahil (a) they have a weak research background, the last research they did was their dissertation, which didn't even get published (b) mejo aloof sila sa research community sa field nila, puro pagtuturo inaatupag dahil dun naman talaga sila kumikita (c) walang research deloading (d) nanggaling sa mahinang uni, etc. It is easy to connect all these to MONEY.

With money you can provide better compensation for your faculty, which makes the university attract the best researchers. The salary of a UP professor is better than those of all the SUCs and private unis in the country, with the exception of ADMU and DLSU. (Salary at ADZU, for example, is horrendously uncompetitive.) Domino effect : if you have the best researchers, you get the best grad students who in turn perpetuate the research momentum. Hindi lang talino at dedikasyon ang kelangan para magkaresearch. Ang daling sabihin na this school has a competent faculty, but the question is, are they competent enough to do research that will be published by journals abroad. To become a highly competent researcher you need tools. Subscription pa lang sa mga journals milyones na ang halaga if you want a wide collection. Kelangan mo ring maging aware sa state-of-the-art ng field mo (for this you need an active interaction with the community abroad, attend conferences, go on postdocs) etc = money. True, hindi lang money and kelangan, but it's the life blood of research. You need to realize kung gaano kalaki ang scale ng research funding abroad - normal nang may research project that costs millions of dollars. Even the so-called "maperang private unis" like ADMU and DLSU cannot afford to conduct high impact researchers. These two universities dont even have a descent physics lab (of course, in comparison with NUS, for example). Even some fields like pure math where not much money is needed, nagooffer ng funding ang agencies like NSF just to attract researchers to do research. This is because wala naman talagang direct compensation ang pagproduce ng research output.

To become part of the top 200 the Philippines needs to become industrialized -- kahit yung range na ng SKor or Singapore. Bigger GDP means that more money can be injected in the research grid = more output = more publications = greater reputations = higher ranking. Hangga't naghihirap ang Pilipinas, asahan nang bumaba ang ranking ng UP kada taon. At kada taon din mangangalampag ang UP sa Kongreso vs budget cuts. This is the bitter truth we need to face, no matter how many geniuses sprout in our most hollowed universities.

Exactly. The Philippines needs to get industrialized quickly and adopt a take no prisoners approach as a global player.

[arkheM]

Wrong. This is outdated and very inaccurate. University of Washington receives the most Federal money and is the first to reach billion dollar mark. Go to wikipedia and check entry for UW.

Huh? Are you kidding me?

How can I be wrong when my source came from the US Congress itself through the Congressional Research Service? Please read the link I provided.

However, that is not my point for correcting you. I wanted to tell you that your statement that US Government is funding the public schools exclusively is absolutely wrong. Regardless of which schools make up the top 30 list when one of which is a private school, your claim becomes automatically false.

[christian5327]

Oh no. I beg to disagree with you on Duke being more prestigious than Berkeley. Duke may have the upper hand at the undergrad level but the difference isn't that big. Many students are turning down Duke for Berkeley despite having been offered a scholarship at Duke. Berkeley has the better, superior grad/postgrad education, as well as, professional education. Berkeley has the better law school, business school and engineering school.

The Berkeley name is a top brand name worldwide. Duke is only well-recognized in America. Berkeley has the brand cache that Duke doesn't. All international league tables would tell that Berkeley is head-and-shoulders superior to Duke in academic prestige and brand name power in America or anywhere on the face of the earth.


What about post-graduates themselves, who might be expected to know better than others what schools are prestigious, given that they applied to schools at least twice (for undergraduate and graduate work) and most likely spent a good deal of time evaluating schools? Here's the list of schools most often mentioned by college graduates with at least some post-graduate education:

Harvard - 29%
Stanford - 27
Yale - 14
MIT -11
Berkeley - 7
Princeton - 7
Michigan - 7

http://www.gallup.com/poll/9109/harv...es-public.aspx

Gallup poll is for the general public. If you want to see real in depth analysis and ratings domestically go to US NEWS & World Report's rankings. If you want to see a global ranking then of course the Cadillac standard is ARWU, AKA Shanghai Rankings.

[christian5327]

Huh? Are you kidding me?

How can I be wrong when my source came from the US Congress itself through the Congressional Research Service?

I added a correction to my response: 1. These figures are a year old. I know, that doesn't mean much but money moves fast in America. UW has hit $1 billion mark for annual federal grants. 2. UW has received most Federal money out of all public schools AND has been #2 under JHU since 1974.

[christian5327]

DOST has a not so good budget as well. Many, if not majority, of their high-tech equipment, gadgets, apparatus, tools etc are not self-made, but purchased, or donated.

But still, DOST + UP System, both government institutions, hold more or less 50% of all the researches in the Philippines. The other institution with a good number of research outputs published on international journals, is IRRI.

Baligtad sa US and other wealthy countries. Private universities and the private sector holds bulk of the research output in their country. A small percentage, though amounting to billions of dollars, come only from government institutions. So no wonder they have (or they had) a fruitful, competitive economy.

Going back to university research outputs, in the Philippines, most universities' priority is to teach only. Universities should be the source of knowledge - new knowledge, for the benefit of the society. That is why aside from teaching, they should do research and extension programs as well, just like what UP is currently doing despite the challenges in the budget.

For the private universities, it is ok for them to provide diplomas to their paying students, see them join good companies or work abroad as OFWs, obtain high passing rates in board exams.

Very good post with sharp observations. The Philippine higher education system especially the private schools need to emphasize research instead of fancy looking classrooms. Yes, a hanful of government sponsored research institutions such as Berkeley, Michigan, UW, etc. have billions of dollars worth at their disposal for world class research.

[christian5327]

Very good post with sharp observations. The Philippine higher education system especially the private schools need to emphasize research instead of fancy looking classrooms. Yes, a hanful of government sponsored research institutions such as Berkeley, Michigan, UW, etc. have billions of dollars worth at their disposal for world class research.

handful instead of hanful....lol....damn laptop keys again.

[christian5327]

Huh? Are you kidding me?

How can I be wrong when my source came from the US Congress itself through the Congressional Research Service? Please read the link I provided.

However, that is not my point for correcting you. I wanted to tell you that your statement that US Government is funding the public schools exclusively is absolutely wrong. Regardless of which schools make up the top 30 list when one of which is a private school, your claim becomes automatically false.

You misunderstood. The US government will not fund schools that keep their religious affiliation intact. Years ago I was surprised to find a chapel on Yale's campus. After reading about Yale's history I understood. It keeps the chapel just as a place for students to do whatever they need to do in silence whether it is to pray or meditate. I never stated that the government funds public schools exclusively. I said that the biggest amounts of federal money goes to public schools---the top ten in the list are mostly public schools. I should say that public schools tend to get big chunks all at once as well. Another poster hit the nail on the head above when he or she said that a few government sponsored institutions get what amounts to billions of dollars for research money.

At any rate, the US has three types of schools: private, private with a religious denomination intact, public. In the Philippines, the heavy hitting private schools have their affiliations intact. UST and Ateneo are both Jesuit/Catholic schools with their affiliations intact.