In order for the Philippines to develop as a country, fairness must be first.

[christian5327]

I have a somewhat good understanding of the dynamic in Philippine society. I have thought about this for quite some time; what I am referring to is the endemic corruption at all levels in this society. The Philippines is a country that divides its loyalties at the tribal level. One's social affiliations define the parameters of loyalty to these personal affiliations. One has to look at a map to see that the country is divided into over 7000 islands. Historically, nationalism has been an elusive concept for the Philippines because interests are divided amongst each group both personally and politically. It is this loyalty to family, friends and one's inner circle that is the cause of endemic corruption. Strangers outside of one's circle are treated so vastly different than friends, acquaintances and loved ones.

By nature the political sphere is an arena in which impersonality is the norm. For example, voters select a candidate who is essentially a stranger to them privately. Government workers assist in the distribution of benefits to law abiding citizens that are only identified as a name, number and/or social class affiliation. Unfortunately, Filipinos personalize this sphere by transferring benefits to their inner circles, thus emphasizing loyalty over fairness. In the long term, this does not work. For the sake of the nation, Filipinos must set aside their cultural biases in order for this fledgling democracy to develop properly. Instead of an 'us' versus 'them' mentality, 'we' as a people must come together with participatory language. As we say here in the United States, there is no "I" in "team". Here, the group dynamic is an extension of "I".

The most ironic aspect I find about Philippine society is that it values team sports and decorum in politics. For decorum, one only has to look at the recent hearings concerning a certain Justice on the Supreme Court. However, behind closed doors personal loyalties divide the country as much now as it ever has. It is painful to choose fairness over loyalty but it is the sort of bitter pill that must be swallowed for the sake of the country's health in an increasingly competitive global environment.

[gooseberry]

Too long did not read.


DISCIPLINE and education is the key to success.

[channa_masala]

The country I come from makes the Philippines look like a beacon of fairness and equality. Want to guess? (No prizes for guessing)

[christian5327]

Which country would this be?

[Lance Edward]

Masala sounds Indian to me. Is it India?

[channa_masala]

haha Lance guessed it.

[christian5327]

Masala sounds Indian to me. Is it India?

Yes, but Santiago sounds Spanish yet that does not come from my maternal great great great grandfather. It comes from my paternal Chinese family who immigrated from China to the Philippines more than 100 years ago. They changed their name from Tan to Santiago. I make no assumptions about a name. On a more humorous note, I have some garam masala mix in the kitchen along with fresh cumin and cinnamon.

At any rate, India has a much longer and complicated history than the Philippines. According to the corruption index, it has less corruption than the Philippines. Anything else, I would not begin to answer including the age old caste system. Besides, you could be an ethnic Indian from Bangladesh, Pakistan, etc. That breaks down further into Dravidian, Aryan, etc. They say that Chinese history is the longest, documented continuous history on Earth but I believe that India though not continuously documented has a culture about 3,000-4,000 years older than that. Buddhism, martial arts, etc are from India originally. So, whatever it has I respect because of longevity. 5,000 years from now garam masala will still exist but the Philippines might not.

[christian5327]

Since I live in a very tolerant West Coast port city, Seattle has a sizeable Indian population. Basmati rice here is only $1 per pound. There is a good mixture of Parsi, Northern Indian, Southern Indian, etc. Unlike many Indian restaurants in most parts of the country, the Indian cuisine here is not watered down. When I tried Indian food for the first time almost 20 years ago, one bite of tandoor chicken and one spoonful of dahl revealed a culture that was probably about 7,000+ years old. Then I discovered that many of the things that I thought originated in China actually originated in India. At age 40, I put more faith in Ayurvedic medicine and Indian cuisine than in anything else. Indian cuisine has healing, ayurvedic properties to it. My favorite cuisines are Southern Indian(#1 of course and then Indian in general), then Guadalaharan Mexican, Southern Italian, Szechuan Chinese. Also, I will be visiting Mumbai sometime in the next year also so that I can check out the University of Mumbai's graduate school department for English just for the future.

I would love it if I could host my Timex 7 gathering at an Indian restaurant but Filipinos generally find Indian food too hot and spicy, even when prepared in a mild, watered down mannner. I would want the food very hot and spicy. Whenever I think of authentic Indian cuisine I think of holistic healing and the sharp, complex flavors brought about by fresh cumin, coriander, etc. The complex effects of Indian cuisine would actually be the perfect food to sustain a potentially lengthy interaction.


My favorite Bollywood song:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1XD2RGDsc0
The ancestor of Wing Chun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV_WT...feature=relmfu

[Lance Edward]

Yes, but Santiago sounds Spanish yet that does not come from my maternal great great great grandfather. It comes from my paternal Chinese family who immigrated from China to the Philippines more than 100 years ago. They changed their name from Tan to Santiago. I make no assumptions about a name. On a more humorous note, I have some garam masala mix in the kitchen along with fresh cumin and cinnamon.

At any rate, India has a much longer and complicated history than the Philippines. According to the corruption index, it has less corruption than the Philippines. Anything else, I would not begin to answer including the age old caste system. Besides, you could be an ethnic Indian from Bangladesh, Pakistan, etc. That breaks down further into Dravidian, Aryan, etc. They say that Chinese history is the longest, documented continuous history on Earth but I believe that India though not continuously documented has a culture about 3,000-4,000 years older than that. Buddhism, martial arts, etc are from India originally. So, whatever it has I respect because of longevity. 5,000 years from now garam masala will still exist but the Philippines might not.

Ever heard of Gov General Narciso Claveria? Santiago came from China? It must be true then? God created the world and everything else was made in China : )

[Lance Edward]

haha Lance guessed it.

Too bad, no prizes. Haha. I have a friend who is Indian. We can't help but compare India and Philippines. Our conclusion is India and Philippines are almost the same. Traffic jams, corruption, overpopulation.

[channa_masala]

Actually Channa Masala was my wife's nick here on PEX and then I took over after she quit this forum! Its funny, South Indian food is my favorite as well, thats because Im from Chennai (Previously called Madras), the heart of South India. This thread just makes me hungry and there's not one South Indian restaurant here in Manila! Luckily my wife cooks south Indian food now and then when my cravings are intolerable..lol Shes Filipina by the way. On the topic of culture, sadly a lot of the Indian culture is lost these days especially in the cities. Globalization and consumerism is alive and well in urban India. The good thing is a lot of the ills of Indian culture like the caste system, female infanticide, the dowry system (still practiced in the cities but mostly as a tradition, not as something forced upon or demanded from the brides family) etc have almost disappeared. Rural India is a totally different story. Nothing much has changed there in the past 50 years. India is a paradox. On one hand you have all these advancements in science and technology and on the other hand you have dowry deaths, extreme poverty and all forms of social injustice.

Lance, India and the Philippines are almost the same... on the surface Don't even want to start comparing, lets make a separate thread for that.

Ok all this way out of topic for this thread..lol

[christian5327]

Ever heard of Gov General Narciso Claveria? Santiago came from China? It must be true then? God created the world and everything else was made in China : )

My name was changed from Tan to Santiago because my family as Chinese believe in some change in order to preserve their culture. Taoism has influenced Chinese culture for over 2,000 years. Believe it or not, there is a traditional Chinese dress equivalent to the Indian Sari---it is called a Hanfu. However, Chinese only wear these traditional outfits for very very special occasions. On the other hand, there are modern Indian women who dress in traditional Saris on a daily basis, even here in Seattle.

Also, India and China have had a tradition of arranged marriages, the difference is that it is still widely practiced in India though if you were to tell a Chinese person that two people met through an arranged matchmaker there would not be shock or surprise.

The Tao Te Ching stresses change. The bamboo must bend in order to survive, otherwise it will break. Indians preserve their culture much better because they are just simply much older than the Chinese. On a personal note, I have always wanted to be with an Indian girl, especially Northern Indians. However, they tend to be very conservative. Once, I was talking to an Indian girl on a bus headed into the University District in Seattle from Downtown Seattle. We had a lengthy conversation and I thought I had made a new friend. I was attracted to her and she kept smiling at me and adding more to the 30-45 minute long conversation. This was in 1995 so I asked for her phone number. She hesitated for what seemed like an eternity as if she was caught off guard, then she responded with, "Um, I can't give you my phone number, my phone broke. Sorry." Years later I thought she was just being polite during the entire conversation. However, she kept adding to the conversation. She could have also just moved away from sitting next to me. I have had other situations similar to this. As a full fledged adult of 40, I suppose it is for the best. In the long run, marrying someone from your own culture has the best chances of survival than marrying someone different from yourself. As an American, it is difficult for me to accept this. I am married to a Filipina who is as close to native as you can get in the Philippines. She is part waray waray and other tribal groups. I married her for the person she is, not taking into account the fact that her culture is so different from my father's culture. Then again my father married someone that was mostly Filipino, one of the few in the family of his generation to marry outside of the Chinese community in the Philippines.

[christian5327]

Actually Channa Masala was my wife's nick here on PEX and then I took over after she quit this forum! Its funny, South Indian food is my favorite as well, thats because Im from Chennai (Previously called Madras), the heart of South India. This thread just makes me hungry and there's not one South Indian restaurant here in Manila! Luckily my wife cooks south Indian food now and then when my cravings are intolerable..lol Shes Filipina by the way. On the topic of culture, sadly a lot of the Indian culture is lost these days especially in the cities. Globalization and consumerism is alive and well in urban India. The good thing is a lot of the ills of Indian culture like the caste system, female infanticide, the dowry system (still practiced in the cities but mostly as a tradition, not as something forced upon or demanded from the brides family) etc have almost disappeared. Rural India is a totally different story. Nothing much has changed there in the past 50 years. India is a paradox. On one hand you have all these advancements in science and technology and on the other hand you have dowry deaths, extreme poverty and all forms of social injustice.

Lance, India and the Philippines are almost the same... on the surface Don't even want to start comparing, lets make a separate thread for that.

Ok all this way out of topic for this thread..lol

I would enjoy it very much if Timex 7 could take place in a South Indian restaurant. There are so MANY South Indian restaurants here in Seattle. I just tingle all over whenever I think about this. Indian food is a very holistic cuisine. One never feels that they are about to develop kidney stones, heart disease, nutrient deficiencies, etc with Indian cuisine. It is probably the most advanced cuisine in the world. Younger cuisines emphasize aesthetics over holistic substance such as French cuisine. Indian cuisine has the person's health in mind and a complex blend of flavors for that person.

[christian5327]

By the way, I have several 16 ounce containers of Madras Curry Powder. I am so thankful to be in a place where they are easy to find. I also have about 4 Indian Cookbooks sitting on the shelf. Indian food and culture in Seattle are so appreciated.

India in the next 50-100 years will be a superpower and in the top 5 of GDP rankings. It all makes sense because when the Roman Empire existed the biggest economies in the world included India(spice route) and China(silk road). India might have its problems but it has its 7,000+ year old culture to give them strength and support along with a growing middle class. Indians have the highest household income of any group in America, followed by Filipinos and then Chinese. However, the top three ultra entrepreneurial groups include Indians, Chinese and Koreans. The Indians have the smoke shops, gas stations, restaurants and small real estate ventures.

If you ask anyone about India here, almost everyone has faith in India's future. The Indian community here is the canary in the coal mine that tells the story of a country on its way back to the top. I have more access to Bollywood movies than Filipino cinema. In fact, Netflix has dozens of Bollywood films but only a handful of Filipino films. I have to go out of my way to a Filipino store to find Filipino movies. In the major DVD chains, when they existed, each one had many Bollywood Titles.

This heartwarming story has nothing to do with anything but I just want to tell you because it is incredible.

I was renting a room in a house in Oklahoma City about 10 years ago during law school. My roommate was an Indian from Kuala Lumpur named Phillip Rakajanu, who actually was with a Spaniard from Mexico(they eventually got married). One day, Phil and I were talking about different things including the Indian diaspora. He read about this story that he found in a magazine such as Reader's Digest. An immigrant Indian couple had worked hard for many years at various KFC restaurants, amassing company awards for various areas such as profitability, customer service, etc. Eventually, it came time for them to buy a KFC franchise of their own. However, they did not have any collateral to present to the bank officer. All they had were these certificates of achievement to show the loan officer. This story makes me emotional every time. The loan officer gave the couple the loan on the basis of those awards. They had nothing but their own determination which was good enough for the banker.

[gene69]

since this is all about fairness and india is mentioned here, i would like to ask this question:

is it fair to send the monkeys in the streets of india back to the jungle? i heard that indian authorities are planning to do so.

and if the monkeys oppose this plan, who will carry their voice or represent their interest? certainly not tarzan.

[christian5327]

since this is all about fairness and india is mentioned here, i would like to ask this question:

is it fair to send the monkeys in the streets of india back to the jungle? i heard that indian authorities are planning to do so.

and if the monkeys oppose this plan, who will carry their voice or represent their interest? certainly not tarzan.

This is a very good point. As an American raised in a culture where PETA exists and people treat their pets as family members, I suppose the nearest local chapter of PETA will attempt to raise awareness of this issue, especially if the monkeys are a rare subspecies on an endangered list.

The irony is that I am both Filipino and Chinese. Sadly, animals in both cultures are treated like animals. The Chinese especially are notorious for, shall we say, their practical vantage point concerning animals.

In America, some towns in Montana, Wyoming and Alaska have grizzly bears that roam the streets occasionally. The townspeople think it is no big deal, even so far as to equate their presence with the natural surroundings. At any rate, animals are protected to the point where there are animal cruelty provisions that impose jail time against individuals that are cruel to animals.

Filipinos often laugh from surprise and shock at the pet cemeteries, cat boarding houses, pet dentists and 24 hour emergency care which includes heart operations for pets here in America upon first arrival. Pets can even get contact lenses and glaucoma operations as well. Care is not even limited to cats and dogs but also includes canaries and pythons.

[gene69]

This is a very good point. As an American raised in a culture where PETA exists and people treat their pets as family members, I suppose the nearest local chapter of PETA will attempt to raise awareness of this issue, especially if the monkeys are a rare subspecies on an endangered list...

The only difference is that the monkeys roaming around the streets of india were not pets. i think indians treat them as the incarnated form of their dead. thus, indian society just let the monkeys co-exist with humans - not in the forest, but exactly where humans live: in the cities and towns.

Going back to the topic. does fairness apply only to humans?

[christian5327]

The only difference is that the monkeys roaming around the streets of india were not pets. i think indians treat them as the incarnated form of their dead. thus, indian society just let the monkeys co-exist with humans - not in the forest, but exactly where humans live: in the cities and towns.

Going back to the topic. does fairness apply only to humans?

Fairness applies to all humans. However, this is technically a bias bourne in the West, applied specifically as an ideal in the United States. I say ideal because even in the US ideal and real do not always coincide. For example, abortion is legal in the United States. In fact, expecting parents can abort a fetus if it has Downs Syndrome or if it is not the gender that they desire.

There is a legalistic way that this society handles such incongruities between ideal and real. Here, fairness is determined by the Constitution. A person has been defined by court decisions to be an individual that was BORN into the system. So, personhood does not occur until birth, not conception. It means that an unborn fetus has no rights. Still, abortions here are only legal until the end of the first trimester.

The meta level dilemma of course is whether it is really possible to enforce fairness through legislation and penalties? If we use the United States as an example, then we can say that even this is not 100% foolproof. It cannot be said that this method has eradicated all unfairness.

Fairness must be ingrained at the cultural level. However, the problem with this is that in a political system that values first amendment rights to various forms of freedom of expression, not everyone will agree with this cultural standard. The irony is that one reason why Americans strive for fairness above all is because doing so would increase the maximum benefits for all under the first amendment of the Bill of Rights. Inner circles which are precious in the Philippines are disposable here because in such a dynamic environment, relationships change all the time due to various factors such as distance. If John and Jeff are best friends but John will be 3000 miles away for good from his best friend because of a lucrative job transfer, then it means that it might be time for John to find a new best friend. Added to the fact that the first amendment stresses individualism, loyalty can easily shift from one person to another person. So, with this being said, fairness is the only thing that can be ensured.

Still, there is a distinction between fairness in order for a political system to function properly and fairness as an ethical principle. People here are practical minded so I would say that they value systemic fairness because everyone here puts so much faith in government even though they officially distrust it in a healthy manner. The difference between mistrust and distrust is that the former suggests no trust can ever develop while the latter suggests that parties wish they could trust each other but for one reason or another will not.

[gene69]

does fairness exist in china or, at least, in the formulation of its government policies?

see this: http://global.christianpost.com/news...ics-say-72907/

[christian5327]

does fairness exist in china or, at least, in the formulation of its government policies?

see this: http://global.christianpost.com/news...ics-say-72907/

This is the ultimate 800 pound gorilla in the corner that everyone tries to ignore. China has never had a history of individual rights and democracy. China marches to the beat of its own drummer. Will abusing people in order to maintain law and order work in the long run? The scary answer is yes. Why? Because with over a billion people China can afford to crack down on dissidents, shoot people in the head for a long list of capital crimes that even includes tax evasion and still have plenty of people left. Why can't the West and Western influenced countries like the Philippines follow China's footsteps? It is because China has its own unique history. The people have been conditioned to put ruler above subject, parents over children, men over women. This has been ingrained with Taoism and Confucianism for over 2000 years.

Unfortunately, the Philippines possesses an historic circumstance that requires fairness and the rule of law. The people do not have a history of simply kowtowing to government or rulers. The Filipino attitude when unchecked leads to anarchy and tribalism. The Chinese attitude when kept unchecked leads to suppression of the individual but a harmonious political system albeit totalitarian or communist.