Grammar Nazi Friendly Thread

[jielun]

You can also compare the number of Google hits between

"speak English as a major language" (3 hits)

and

"Speak English as a native language" (338,000 hits)

[elhy]

To the TS, I don't know what your profession is, but I really want to ask if you've read The Elements of Style? Although some authorities I refer to do not agree with everything written in that book, some guidelines from it are quite useful. For example, one of its rules is 'be concise.' The more you can express with a fewer number of words, the better your sentences are.

[jielun]

Great book indeed! Elements of Style, rigid rules but still relevant. Try mo na rin On Writing by Stephen King.

[JoeKano]

Hi everyone! First, allow me to give you some information about my background. I excelled in practically all of my English classes from grade school through college, and even into grad school, but I can't help noticing that I still have some lapses of grammar. I didn't attend exclusive schools nor top tier universities in Manila, so that explains my lack of proficiency with the English language despite my excellent performance in English classes.

But my true-blue perfectionist self makes me want to refine my written English and my spoken English. I could do that through available tutorials on the net or through books. Yet, I just want to try a little experiment to further improve my writing skills, and that's by way of this medium.

In this thread, I'm asking all Grammar Nazis to do your thing: correct my English! But first, I think everyone needs to know how this is going to work, so here's the drill:

1. I'll post messages.
2. You'll correct my statements.
3. If you can suggest a more appropriate term, then YOU MUST. If you can suggest a more concise manner of writing the same statement, then YOU MUST.
4. Just for fun, sarcasm is welcome. I'm willing to be embarrassed and intimidated, making it easier for me to remember the lessons you give me.

I figure the best way to learn a skill is through application. This medium is a definite answer to that need. Besides, I feel my writing needs only some minor refinements. I know there are existing grammar threads here in pex, but they are somehow boring and ineffective (at least for me), so I'm trying this little experiment.

Therefore, I'm inviting all Grammar Nazis to correct me. Let's start with this very post!

English is my first language. Come to think of it, it's my only language.

[jielun]

^ And that's your reply, after you quoted the whole post?

[JoeKano]

^ And that's your reply, after you quoted the whole post?

Take a closer look at the quoted post.

[jielun]

Oh, sorry about that.

[elizabethT]

Thank you Mr. JoeKano. You are most welcome in this thread! Btw, I like Americans...

elhy and jielun: will try looking for those books. I hope I could find them.

Anyhow, after assessing all your replies, I realized I need more than just refinements! My hunch was right, there must be something wrong with the way I speak and write. I hope I could improve on both these. @_@

As regards my profession, I am an aspiring lawyer. So I felt there is a real need to post this thread. I might not be posting here in the coming weeks and months as I will be checking out those books you've recommended. Only after I've learned much from them will I subject myself again to further assessments. Thank you very very much!

[jielun]

Goodluckee ts! What school ka nga pala nagtetake ng law?

[elhy]

If you are an aspiring lawyer, you not only need to work on grammar. You also need to take rhetorical principles into consideration. I'll be studying rhetoric for my own edification. I have some books in mind, but I'm not in the position to give recommendations. By the way, this is the English grammar book I'm using.



Here's a link to the companion website: http://www.lel.ed.ac.uk/~gpullum/SIEG/

Here's a taste of the book based on some linked articles in said website.

Confusion over avoiding the passive

Many grammarians and commentators on usage and writing have delivered themselves of truly fantastic statements about the passive construction. Almost without exception, they recommend that you should try to avoid it. Some denigrate and deplore it in more extreme terms, treating it as unnatural, evasive, or unmanly, or even evil.

The passive is of course perfectly respectable, and there is no reason to try to avoid it. (To say that it shouldn't be over-used, or it shouldn't be used where it is inappropriate, doesn't distinguish it from any other construction or expression.) It would be quite peculiar for there to be a way of constructing clauses, well known to everyone, that was generally not appropriate for use. If everyone who understood how to use the language well could see that the passive was not fit to be used, its survival down the centuries would be almost inexplicable.

In truth, the passive is very often exactly the right way to frame a clause in a particular context, and all competent authors use passives frequently. The people who recommend against it use it themselves, even while talking about how you should not use it. For example, in the act of explaining that you should "Use the active voice" because it is "more direct and vigorous than the passive", William Strunk and E. B. White assert that "Many a tame sentence . . . can be made lively and emphatic by substituting a transitive in the active voice" (see section 14 of their book The Elements of Style). Their sentence defies their warning; it contains an instance of the passive voice itself (can be made lively and emphatic). They then proceed to give four examples together with illustrations of how to improve them "by substituting a transitive in the active voice", but only one illustrates the passive (it is not quite clear whether they thought all four were passives), and for one of them, At dawn the crowing of a rooster could be heard, they propose the replacement The ****'s crow came with dawn, which (since came is intransitive) does not have a transitive in the active voice!

[elizabethT]

Goodluckee ts! What school ka nga pala nagtetake ng law?

Halah... I'm too shy to reveal it here. Heheh. But can I just say I'm here in Manila while taking it up? I hope that my being a graduate of a provincial university is enough to satisfy your curiosity as to my academic profile. I still do need to improve on my English as I have learned only the basics in college.

[jielun]

At least you're humble. Hindi tulad ng iba dito sa Pex. You've got the right attitude to begin with, humble and willing to learn, yet confident at the same time.

Ikaw na TS!

[JoeKano]

Don't give up on your thread yet! Your English writing skills are pretty good. Your grammar is good and you have your own unique writing style. It flows well. You simply need to polish up the edges. Reading for fun would help in that regard.

[elizabethT]

Don't give up on your thread yet! Your English writing skills are pretty good. Your grammar is good and you have your own unique writing style. It flows well. You simply need to polish up the edges. Reading for fun would help in that regard.

Thank you very much, dear. I'm always elated by the words you bring to this thread and this is not an exaggeration. You guys at that other end of the world do know how to make other people happy, even in the simplest ways you can. But I am not giving up on this thread, especially if it has someone like you post here every day.

[elizabethT]

At least you're humble. Hindi tulad ng iba dito sa Pex. You've got the right attitude to begin with, humble and willing to learn, yet confident at the same time.

Ikaw na TS!

Jielun, thank you. Humility is something hard to keep, especially when it is the very compliment you've just received. Thank you very much, nevertheless.

[Dunkler_Ritter]

Vergesst die Grammatik nicht!!!

[Dunkler_Ritter]

THE, THE, THE... Die deutsche Sprache... bunter als Englische...

[Jameaux]

I want to better my English too. Can I join or not?

[TTJ__]

Calling all Grammar nazis.

[jielun]

German s*cks! (Mga medyas na Aleman )

At least French has only three le, la and les, while Japanese has none.

I want to better my English too.
This is actually grammatically correct, but awkward, since we rarely use "better" as a verb.