[MERGED] Philippines vs. China and the Spratlys Situation

[GR31]

The Philippine government says its largest warship is engaged in a standoff with Chinese surveillance vessels that blocked it when it attempted to arrest Chinese fishermen anchored at a South China Sea shoal where both sides claim sovereignty.

http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx...bCategoryId=63

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This is critical. Where is the nearest carrier?

What carrier?

[andresbonifacio2]

Diplomacy might not have saved a few idle submerged rocks in the middle of the Ocean but it indeed prevented the takeover of the whole Spratlys and of course, it saved the whole Philippines. All thanks because we had at that time not an "utak-pulbura na pangulo". Kaya tinatanong ko sa yo kundi diplomasya, ano pa ba magagawa natin. Gyera na? May ikakasa na ba tayo makipagsabayan sa all out war. Kaya na ba natin panindigan ang sisi kung malipol ang buong Pilipinas kung nagkataon dahil sa utak pulbura na pag-iisip ng iilan. Yun ang point ko. There's no other way except diplomacy to fight for our sovereignty. Kaya mo bang denggoyin si Uncle Sam to do it for us. Vested interests din ang iniisip nyan.

Diplomacy is not being submissive. Aba mas matapang ka pala kay Erick San Juan. Pakitaan mo nga kami ng tapang mo, gaya ng sa namesake mo. Punta ka sa Scarborough shoal, paalisin mo mga kadugo mong tsekwa. ha ha.

Paunlarin muna natin ang ekonomiya para ma-sustain ang defense spending. Saka na tayo magpakita ng gilas at tapang. May mapagyayabang na ba tayong lakas pwersa. O, gusto mo lang malipol kaming mga Pinoy para lang sa katiting na shoal gaya ng Scarborough o Mischief reef. Don't cry on spilled milk. Basta nasa sa atin ang pinakamalaking oil reserve na nasa Recto bank at Minsupala. Peaceful cooperation ang kailangan para ma exploit natin ang likas yaman dyan. 50/50 sharing sa net income. Not bad. Kumpara naman sa Malampaya na undisputed na within our patrimonial rights ay less than 10percent, nadenggoy tayo ng mga Kano at ibpang western powers na ang kinita ay pinambili ng bulok na barko.

Nuon pa man, malayang nakakapangisda ang mga mamamayan natin sa Scarborough kasama na ang mga kalahi mo kuno, ngayon, ano napala sa saber rattling? Tayo ang nawalan pati na ang agricultural sector(banana, pineapple).

Yes, we should fight for our rights through peaceful diplomatic efforts and economic cooperation. Wag nyo nga kaming isama ng idol mo na genius sa national security sa gyera na di namin ginusto. Magsama kayo mga utak pulbura at mag kamikaze kayo duun. Joke lang, pre.

Baka di mo alam na nagmomoro-moro lang ang Tsina at US gaya ng sabi ni San Juan. Baka di mo alam kung gaano ka dependent ang mga ekonomiya nila sa isa't isa. Mas panig pa nga mga Kano sa tsina di mo alam. Nag-uusap na ang mga yan kung paano hahatian ang bansa. Ang kayamanan ng Minsupala (Moro substate) ay kukunin ng US through the western multinational oil and mining industries. Ang Luzon at Spratlys naman ay sa Tsina. Parehong delikado ekonomiya nila ngayon kaya naghahanap ng gulo para maimprove ekonomiya nila. Kaya through economic cooperation lang matitigil ang pagbuBULLY.

I would like to believe that the U.S. for all her faults is a more principled nation than China.

There will always be competition among major powers in the world, but I hope we are not that naive to think that we can be Switzerland in a domain where there is a territorial dispute.

[andresbonifacio2]

parang ganito daw ang diplomacy sa isang news website comment na nabasa ko:

"better use a more updated dictionary when describing diplomacy. It is just like an ARMED intruder to our houses getting some of our valued possession, what will you do?

Hi, I am Tnosce, what are you doing inside my house. Can you leave me in peace? (this is bullsh_t!!!!)

Better get your Glock!"

Haha! Parang di niyo rin alam meaning ng Lupang Hinirang

This is a very good point.

As I've said when will you act? When your "intruding" neighbor is already at 3rd base in "exploring' your wife?

[the_who68]

The calm before the storm

http://www.businessinsider.com/china...#ixzz20bughr2B

The U.S. has made no secret that it's pulling its focus from the Middle East and directing military attention to the Pacific, and now China is pushing back.

The Economic Times reports China is increasing its conventional missile capability to carry out multiple launches, the one tactic that could overwhelm a Navy ship's defenses and cripple its abilities.

Tan Weihong, Commander of China's Second Artillery Force says, "Conventional missiles are a trump card in modern warfare. So we must be ready at any time. We must be able to deliver a quick response to attacks, hit the targets with high accuracy, and destroy them totally. Of the 114 missiles [our brigade] has launched so far, all have accurately hit the target."

For each incoming missile a U.S. Navy ship will have to perform some variation of the following actions:

First it will launch a long-range air defense missile, like a SM-2ER. If that fails, then a shorter range missile like the ESSM (Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile) will go out — then the ship's main deck guns will fire anti-air rounds with fused airburst shells.

Surviving missiles will be engaged by close-in weapons systems like the Mk-15 Phalanx or the RAM (Rolling Airframe Missile). Any incoming missiles struck by these systems will be so close, and moving so fast, that incoming shrapnel and debris would likely be unavoidable.

While all these "Hard Kill" options are going on, the ship's electronic warfare systems will have been trying to jam the incoming missile, offering the missile a false target, while firing off chaff (for radar guided weapons) and flares (for infrared guided weapons).

All that for every single missile, so if China can send off several at once directed at the same ship, the chances of success on their part may increase exponentially.

[stewiegriffin201]

"All that for every single missile, so if China can send off several at once directed at the same ship, the chances of success on their part may increase exponentially."

This is very stupid strategy. Wasting so much resources just for a ship? What if the ship was a junk decoy? After launching several barrages of missiles and going empty, you're a sitting duck.

As I said before, China can't even subdue small countries like Taiwan and Vietnam, what more the U.S.? If China was that really strong, taking Taiwan will be like taking candy from a baby. Up until now, its still a failure. You have to wonder why.

[jpd74]

if china attacks a us warship the us will use its long range nuke missile{land based or submarine launch} to wipe china off the map ... japan , south korea , australia & nato counties will join the fight ...
china will never dare attack or sink a us warship in international waters ...
us has more nuke missile submarines capable wipping china off the map ...

[potatochem]

we have no choice but to buy or develop weapons to defend ourselves

[LaputotoyDacocoy]

Brace yourselves this is gonna be a rough ride!

[albert_sy2]

China is already conducting combat-ready patrols in the area, while RP is doing what?

[albert_sy2]

we have no choice but to buy or develop weapons to defend ourselves

In this instance, we need combat ships and combat aircraft. Ang galing kasing mangurakot ni Juan dela Cruz, lahat ng pera para sa depensa, napunta lang sa mga mansion at bank accounts.

[victoryliner]

Sa kabila ng pagkadismaya sa ASEAN, PHL ipupursige ang Code of Conduct sa West PHL Sea
July 16, 2012 11:36am

Sa kabila ng pagkabigo ng Association of Southeast Asian Nations' (ASEAN) na maglabas ng pahayag tungkol sa alitan sa West Philippine Sea, hindi nito mapipigilan ang Pilipinas sa pagsusulong na magkaroon ng Code of Conduct sa lugar, inihayag ng Malacañang nitong Linggo.

Ayon kay deputy presidential spokesperson Abigail Valte, itutuloy pa rin ng Manila, kasama ang mga kapwa miyembro nito sa ASEAN, ang pagsasakatuparan ng Code of Conduct at maresobla na rin ang ilang isyu.

“The Philippines will continue to work with ASEAN member countries on the Code of Conduct. And hopefully we will be able to hammer out some of the contentious issues that were discussed in the past forum,” kanyang inihayag sa government-run dzRB radio.

Nauna nang inihayag ng Pilipinas ang kanilang pagkadismaya sa ASEAN sa hindi nito pag-isyu ng joint statement tungkol sa alitan sa naganap na taunang regional conference nito.

Ayon kay Valte, hindi pa rin naman mababago ang pakikitungo ng Pilipinas sa Cambodia, kasalakuyang pinuno ng ASEAN at ang umano'y pumigil sa paglalabas ng kasunduan. Isang malapit na kaalyado ng Cambodia ang China, na hindi sang-ayon sa joint action o paglalabas ng pahayag ng ASEAN tungkol sa alitan sa West Philippine Sea.

“The Philippines merely wanted the fact that discussions on Bajo de Masinloc [Panatag Shoal] be reflected in that communiqué,” aniya.

Noong Biyernes, nabigong magbigay ng desisyon ang ASEAN, sa pamumuno ng Cambodia, kung papaano tugunan ang alitan sa West Philippine Sea [na tinatawag ring South China Sea].

Hindi naglabas ng joint communiqué ang Cambodia, sa kabila ng pangigipit ng China sa pinag-aagawang lugar.

Sa ulat ng New York Times, mayroon umanong isang diplomat mula sa isa sa mga bansa ng ASEAN na naniniwalang China "bought the chair, simple as that." Tumangging pangalanan ang diplomat alinsunod sa protocol.

Ayon naman sa China, naging "productive" umano ang ASEAN na pagpupulong ng mga foreign minister.

Ayon naman sa isang artikulo ng stage news agency ng China, inihayag ni Yang Jiechi, foreign minister ng Xinhua, ang pagpapasalamat ng China sa pagsuporta ng Cambodia sa “core interests" ng kanilang bansa.

Binibigyan ng China ang Cambodia ng sapat na military assistance.

Dismayado ang DFA sa hindi paglalabas ng communiqué sa 45th ASEAN Foreign Minister's Meeting, at ito ay umano'y “unprecedented in ASEAN’s 45 year of existence.”

Sa isang pahayag, sinabi ng DFA na ang Pilipinas "takes strong exception" sa pahayag ng Chair of the ASEAN Foreign Ministers' Meeting at ito umano ay ang “the first time that ASEAN is not able to issue the Joint Communiqué due to bilateral conflict between some ASEAN Member States and a neighboring country.” — Amanda Fernandez/RSJ, GMA News

source: http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story...a-west-phl-sea

[victoryliner]

Chinese fishing fleet arrives in Spratlys—report
July 16, 2012 9:49am

A fleet of 30 Chinese fishing vessels arrived in the disputed Spratly Islands over the weekend, a Hong Kong news site reported early Monday.

The report on Radio Television Hong Kong (RTHK) said it took the vessels 78 hours from the mainland to reach the area.

"The move is likely to raise tensions in both the South and East China Seas," the RTHK report said.

It said parts—or all—of the archipelago is being claimed by six countries: the Philippines, China, Taiwan, Vietnam, Malaysia, and Brunei.

The Philippines in particular has had a standoff with China over the Panatag (Scarborough) Shoal, which China refers to as Huangyan Island.

Since April, Manila and Beijing have been trying to diplomatically resolve the dispute where Philippine forces spotted Chinese fishermen gathering marine species in the area but were blocked by Chinese vessels when trying to make arrests. –KG, GMA News

source: http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story...s-mdash-report

[anticorruption]

china be readily prepared.. U.S will not go into war if its not calculated.. alam ng america na kaya nila ang china o ano mang bansa. not overconfident but their newly acquired warplane anti submarine may actually give china the impression. if they will attack the US warships or not. we all know china has new submarines. but what else if U.S has newly acquired the goddess of the under SEA.

[stewiegriffin201]

The main advantage of USA is that they have the ability to develop new unknown technology. The nuke before was an exotic weapon unknown to the world. I wonder what U.S. has in store.

[potatochem]

Sa ngayon iboycott ko muna ang mga produkto na made in china...secret muna... medyo Medyo takot lang kasi ako sa president ng company namin baka pro china sya... Filipino-Chinese ksi

[victoryliner]

Violating agreement, 77 Chinese vessels back in Panatag Shoal — DFA
July 16, 2012 9:18pm


Seventy-seven Chinese vessels are back in the vicinity of the disputed Panatag (Scarborough) Shoal, said Department of Foreign Affairs Undersecretary for Policy Erlinda Basilio.

Basilio said the Chinese vessels incrementally came back after they pulled out earlier this month.

“Nakikita natin na planado iyon. May plano talaga,” she said in an interview on GMA News TV program News To Go.

She said that the Chinese fishing vessels were spotted by Philippine surveillance planes over Panatag Shoal.

Basilio also said China should have pulled out all its vessels as early as June 16, when Philippine President Benigno Aquino III ordered the withdrawal of all the country’s ships from the disputed territory.

“Mayroon tayong kasunduan sa kanila, pero sila ay hindi tumupad. Tayo umalis doon kasi simultaneous sana ang pag-alis, pero hindi sila umalis,” she said.

The Philippines has been engaged in a three-month-old territorial dispute with China over ownership of Panatag Shoal, located 124 nautical miles west of Zambales.

The Philippines asserts ownership over the shoal based on traditional use and provisions in the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), while China maintains that its ownership is based on historical claims.

‘Serious concern’

Basilio meanwhile described the stranding of a Chinese naval frigate near Hasa-Hasa (Half Moon) Shoal off Palawan as “a cause for serious concern.”

“Kung warship na, under the declaration of the Conduct of Parties of the South China Sea, bawal nga ‘yan,” she said.

She added that she personally saw the presence of the Chinese frigate in Philippine territory as a “threat of the use of force.”

“Meron namang Freedom of Navigation, pero kung warships yung ipinapakita, ipinapadaan daan mo diyan, hindi na yata tama yun di ba?” she said.

The Chinese warship reportedly ran aground near Hasa-Hasa Shoal last Wednesday, but was refloated on Sunday.

The Hasa-Hasa shoal, located 60 nautical miles off Palawan’s Rizal town, is part of the Spratly Islands—a string of atolls and islands straddling vital shipping lanes in the West Philippine Sea believed sitting atop vast mineral deposits.

Apart from the Philippines and China, the Spratlys are claimed in whole or in part by rival Taiwan and the other Southeast Asian countries of Brunei, Malaysia and Vietnam.

The Philippine government said it will conduct a probe on the stranding of the Chinese warship inside Hasa-Hasa Shoal. — Andreo Calonzo/AE/DVM/HS, GMA News

source: http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story...hoal-mdash-dfa

[anticorruption]

The main advantage of USA is that they have the ability to develop new unknown technology. The nuke before was an exotic weapon unknown to the world. I wonder what U.S. has in store.

during the raid of osama in pakistan. a us helicopter black hawk crashed through the mansion. and the pakistani officials comfiscated the helicopter and never turned down to the claiming OWNER the U.S. story said that during the raid in the pakistani border of the mansion of osama. the black hawk was not detected by the radar of the pakistani radar stations and afghan radars thats why osama bin laden was caught sleeping and surprised by the raid of the special forces..

it was believed that the black hawk was embedded by a stealth technology not known to all of the whole world only america knows.. thats why the pakistani handed it over to the chinese to examine where the stealth technology came from the black hawk... until now they cant solve the problem..

thats why we may never know that america is hiding a secret technology that uses stealth in the night that radar cant detect... kaya ingat na lang mga ints3k.

[Kenbone]

I think we have to be realistic.

Obviously, our country is being bullied by China. At the moment, it's election time for the party, and politicians are jockeying for position. Many of them are taking the sovereign stance. Against us, Japan, and other SEA neighbors (except Cambodia). It's giving these politicians attention, milage and popularity. The US is keeping its distance. Rightly so, because, China is one of the biggest foreign creditor of the US today. The US owes China US$ 1 Trillion. Therefore, you will not see the US siding with us as they did with Kuwait, during Operation Desert Storm.

I have two simple suggestions to our government. First is, continue to deal with the tension thru diplomatic means even if China refuses to. We definitely cannot wage a shooting war with them. Second, and I feel this is critical. Open the area to all claimants. Do a joint oil/gas exploration with China, and the other 'claimant' countries. And open the waters to all fishing vessels. Use Zambales and Western Palawan as a jump-off points. They are perfect locations geographically. Any oil/gas they find will be distributed equally. They can build depots and/or refineries for the oil/gas they find. Build huge fishing ports for processing their catch, build large-scale freezers or canneries in the coast and build a port and airstrip to export their produce worldwide. The Philippines can offer the land in return for this peaceful solution for free for the next 50 years or so. Imagine all the revenue this joint-venture will produce, and how many jobs it will generate? I think this is a more prudent approach.

[the_who68]

the US may also use that credit as a reason to wage a war to china so that they can prevent in paying their trillion dollar credit. You'll never know what may happen. And China may never give up those islands because of their economical problem and surely they won't accept now any joint exploration since they are already claiming those territories as their own. Still in the waiting game.

[j10021213]

This is very stupid strategy. Wasting so much resources just for a ship? What if the ship was a junk decoy? After launching several barrages of missiles and going empty, you're a sitting duck.

If there's a country which has plenty of money to burn for a big stockpile of missiles, China would be it.

I think we have to be realistic.
...
I have two simple suggestions to our government. First is, continue to deal with the tension thru diplomatic means even if China refuses to. We definitely cannot wage a shooting war with them. Second, and I feel this is critical. Open the area to all claimants. Do a joint oil/gas exploration with China, and the other 'claimant' countries. And open the waters to all fishing vessels. Use Zambales and Western Palawan as a jump-off points. They are perfect locations geographically. Any oil/gas they find will be distributed equally. They can build depots and/or refineries for the oil/gas they find. Build huge fishing ports for processing their catch, build large-scale freezers or canneries in the coast and build a port and airstrip to export their produce worldwide. The Philippines can offer the land in return for this peaceful solution for free for the next 50 years or so. Imagine all the revenue this joint-venture will produce, and how many jobs it will generate? I think this is a more prudent approach.

Questionable ang joint exploration na yan. I'm sure na once built, China will continue their bullying stance and insist on taking the bigger piece of the pie from those refineries and fishery resources. Lugi pa rin tayo.