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View Poll Results: What will you do if the Philippines-China conflict escalates?

Voters
288. You may not vote on this poll
  • Fight for the Philippines

    156 54.17%
  • Fight for China

    13 4.51%
  • Fly away on your beautiful rainbow-colored balloon

    30 10.42%
  • It won't happen

    75 26.04%
  • Others

    14 4.86%
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  1. #821
    the lurker has un-lurk-ed mrbones525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firenzi View Post
    The South China Sea in Southeast Asia is bordered by 7 countries: China, Taiwan, the Philippines, Brunei, Indonesia, Malaysia and Vietnam. The name of that water, like others such as Gulf of Mexico, Indian Ocean, Arabian Sea, Persian Gulf, Gulf of Thailand, Philippines Sea, East China Sea and Sea of Japan, do not imply any notion of sovereignty because they were invented for convenience by European explorers.

    In the South China Sea, there are three islands groups – Paracel islands, Spratly islands and Scarborough shoal – which are not permanently inhabited because the islands are small and do not have dependable fresh water. Some man-made objects have been found on some of them, indicating transient human presence, because since prehistory, fishermen, merchants and pirates from various countries built temporary shelter on them. Because those islands cannot support permanent human habitation, various national governments in the area recently had to build superstructures on them, as on Okinotori (a Japanese islet in the Pacific Ocean), to support human habitation.

    China claimed sovereignty over 90% of the water and all the islands in the South China Sea by drawing a nine-dash line covering 90% of that sea, prompting her neighbors to protest that her claim contradicts international law, specifically the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

    UNCLOS gave a coastal nation or an inhabited island an exclusive economic zone (EEZ) of 200 miles from the baseline (shoreline at low tide) in which the coastal nation or the inhabited island has the exclusive right to exploit natural resources. China’s nine-dash claim extends beyond her EEZ, biting into the EEZs of her neighbors. Also, UNCLOS said that rocks on the sea that cannot support human habitation and do not have economic life of their own cannot have EEZ. By UNCLOS definition, the South China Sea islands cannot have EEZ because they cannot support permanent human habitation on their own. Only China argued that they have EEZs, a hypocritical argument because in the dispute about Okinotori, China had argued that Okinotori cannot have EEZ because Okinotori cannot support human habitation on its own. As the Paracel islands lie halfway between China and Vietnam while Spratly islands and Scarborough shoal lie within the EEZs of China’s neighbors, China argued that those islands have EEZs simultaneously with claiming sovereignty over all the islands in order to maximize China’s EEZ at the expense of her neighbors.

    China justified her exaggerated claim on the South China Sea by arguing that ancient Chinese texts mentioned certain islands in the South China Sea, proving that Chinese people were the first to navigate that sea and the first to discover the islands in the area, that China was the first country to exercise jurisdiction over the islands and that the South China Sea was China’s historic water. China further argued that in 1947, when China published a map of that sea with an eleven-dash line (predecessor of the nine-dash line), nobody protested, proving that the world had accepted China’s claim. However, close examination shows that China’s arguments are baseless.

    http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/...ly-Islands.jpg

    First, in 1947, the world did not react to the map of the South China Sea with the eleven-dash line because the world ignored that map. That map carried as much legal weight as the traditional Chinese political thought which said that the world (All-under-heaven) is under the authority of Chinese emperors. Can China argue that the world had accept China’s sovereignty over the world because nobody protested when the Chinese emperors declared that the world is under their authority ? .

    Second, countries that had historical border with the Arctic Ocean formed the Arctic Council to divide the Arctic natural resources according to the rules of UNCLOS. China never had any historical border with the Arctic Ocean, yet China asked to join the Arctic Council in order to have a share of Arctic natural rersources, arguing that the Arctic Ocean is a “common heritage for all of humankind”. If the Arctic Ocean is a “common heritage for all of humankind”, then the South China Sea is a common heritage for all the peoples who live on its shores, not only for China.

    Third, peoples of the Austronesian language family, more specifically the Malayo-Polynesian branch, were the first to navigate the South China Sea. Their original homelands were Southern China or Taiwan. Between 5000-2500 BC, they crossed the South China Sea to populate the Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia. From Southeast Asia, they crossed the Pacific Ocean to populate Melanesia and Micronesia by 1200 BC, Polynesia by 1000 BC, Easter Island by 300 AD, Hawaii by 400 AD and New Zealand by 800 AD. They also crossed the Indian Ocean to populate Madagascar by 0-500 AD. The Indo-Pacific maritime space, including the South China Sea, was their historic water. Since the Austronesian peoples (ancestors of the Filipinos, Indonesians and Malaysians) were the first to navigate the South China Sea, they were the first to discover the islands in the area and to fish in the associated waters. Though they did not invent writing to record their discovery, it would be ludicrous to deny their discovery of the islands so close to the Philippines and Indonesia in light of the fact that they were able to discover the various islands in the vast Pacific Ocean. By the way, they have been displaced or reduced to aboriginal minority status in their original homelands.

    Fourth, the South China Sea has always been an international waterway since prehistory. Indian traders navigated that sea early in prehistory, introducing Indian philosophies to Southeast Asia, leading to the formation of many Indianised states on Islands Southeast Asia in ancient time. One of those states was Srivijaya, located on Indonesia in the 7th century and exercised prominent maritime activities in the South China Sea. During ancient time, the influence of Chinese civilization on Southeast Asia was limited to Vietnam whereas the influence of Indian civilization was dominant throughout Islands Southeast Asia, indicating Indian traders were very active in the South China Sea. Persian and Arab traders also navigated that sea, introducing Islam to Indonesia and the Philippines. The Arabs even settled in Guangzhou during the 7th century. A 7th-century Chinese monk, I-Tsing, went pilgrimage to India by embarking at Guangzhou on a Persian ship, stopped over at Srivijaya before continued onto India.

    Fifth, even if Chinese people were the first to navigate the South China Sea (not true), China cannot claim sovereignty over the water that is used by many other countries. The Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia do not claim sovereignty over the South China Sea, the Indian Ocean and the Pacific Ocean even though their Austronesian ancestors were the first to navigate those waters. Norway does not claim sovereignty over the Norwegian Sea even though the Norsemen (Vikings) were the first to navigate that water to populate Iceland and Greenland in the 9th century. Portugal does not claim sovereignty over the water off the West African coast, the water around the Cape of Good Hope and the Indian Ocean even though Portuguese under Bartolomeu Diaz and Vasco da Gama were the first to navigate those waters in 1488 and 1498. Spain does not claim sovereignty over the Atlantic Ocean, the Magellan Strait and the Pacific Ocean even though Spaniards under Christopher Columbus and Ferdinand Magellan were the first to navigate those waters in 1492 and 1521. Russia does not claim sovereignty over the Bering Sea even though Russians under Vitus Bering were the first to navigate that water in 1741.

    Sixth, ancient Chinese texts which mention the South China Sea islands do not describe discovery of the islands but only describe general knowledge about the islands, knowledge shared among the fishermen, merchants and pirates from various countries who navigated that sea since prehistory. Chinese writers were the first to write about the South China Sea islands because China invented writing earlier, not because Chinese people were the first to navigate that sea or the first to discover the islands. This principle is illustrated by the Sea of Japan and the Black Sea.

    Japan first appeared in written records in 57 AD in China’s Book of the Later Han as followed: “Across the sea from Lelang were the people of Wa”. Lelang was a Han Empire’s military outpost in Korea and Wa referred to Japan. The sea between Lelang and Wa is now known as Sea of Japan. Chinese writers were the first to write about Japan and Sea of Japan because China invented writing early, not because Chinese people were the first to navigate the Sea of Japan or the first to discover Japan. Korean and Japanese peoples lived by the Sea of Japan since prehistory and sailed into that sea to fish and to trade with each other, and knew about the existence of each others since prehistory, long before Chinese writers wrote about Japan and Sea of Japan.

    The Black Sea first appeared in written records in 5th century BC in the writing of the Greek poet Pindar as “Pontos Axeinos”. By the 5th century BC, the Greeks had established many colonies by the Black Sea. Greek writers were the first to write about the Black Sea because Greece invented writing early, not because Greeks were the first to discover or the first to navigate the Black Sea. There were other peoples who lived by the Black Sea alongside with the Greeks and had sailed into that water to fish and to trade since prehistory, even though they did not invent writing to write about that. The Black Sea, like the South China Sea, is a common heritage for all the peoples who live on its shores.

    Seventh, ancient Chinese texts which mention the South China Sea islands mention those islands as foreign lands, not as China’s territories, and do not describe which activities the authority of ancient China exercised on the islands. Therefore, there is no proof of China’s jurisdiction over the islands. In the case of Scarborough shoal, China argued that Kublai Khan’s officials were the first to map out and to establish jurisdiction over those islands in 1279. However, Kublai Khan was the Great Khan of the Mongol Empire who conquered China. If any country can inherit Scarborough shoal from Kublai Khan, it is Mongolia, not China.

    In 1279, Kublai Khan’s officials neither “discovered” nor “established jurisdiction” over Scarborough shoal because that place was already the historic water and traditional fishing ground of Filipino fishermen, descendants of the Austronesian sailors who navigated the South China Sea and populated the Philippines in 5000-2500 BC. Scarborough shoal was known as “bajio de Masinloc”, meaning shoal of Masinloc, in a Spanish-made map of the Philippines in 1734. Masinloc is not a Spanish word and is the name of a municipality on the Philippines’ main island, confirming that Filipino fishermen had been to and had named the islands after their own tongue for centuries.

    Eighth, official maps of the Yuan Dynasty and Ching Dynasty, including but not limited to Da Qing Zhi Sheng Quan Tu (published in 1862) and Huang Chao Yi Tong Yu Di Zen Du (published in 1894), show that the southernmost extent of China ends at Hainan islands (see below).

    Finally, the Chinese empire originated on the Yellow river basin and eventually conquered many lands and peoples, including Tibet and Sinkiang, which is why China is a multiethnic, multi-languages country. At the time when China allegedly discovered the South China Sea islands, China’s border on the mainland was not what it is today, Tibet and Sinkiang were independent countries of the Tibetans and the Uyghurs, respectively. The Tibetans and the Uyghurs are demanding self-determination. Three dozens Tibetan monks have burned themselves to death to draw attention of humanity to the sufferings of their people under China’s rule. If China is serious about its historical claim, it should return to its historical border on the mainland, return Tibet and Sinkiang to the Tibetans and the Uyghurs, respectively.

    China knows that her arguments for claiming sovereignty over the South China Sea and all the islands in that water are baseless, which is why China refused the Philippines’ invitation to submit the dispute to an international court.

    http://www.eurasiareview.com/2405201...sh-claim-oped/
    WOW, nice article. I wonder what chinese supporters would say against this

  2. #822
    Can we please stop posting whole articles (and then re-quoting the entire thing)?

    It's unfair to the original writers and source of the article. Just post the article title, author, source, relevant portions, and a link back.

  3. #823
    the lurker has un-lurk-ed mrbones525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuroihikari View Post
    Can we please stop posting whole articles (and then re-quoting the entire thing)?

    It's unfair to the original writers and source of the article. Just post the article title, author, source, relevant portions, and a link back.
    haha minsan kasi nakakatamad mag edit eh pero sige

    Another article form the site shared by Firenzi
    source: http://www.eurasiareview.com/2404201...uth-china-sea/


    To ease its neighbours’ concerns, China has said it plans to present a maritime border claim based on the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea. But with nationalist sentiment high and growing public demand for more assertive action, it will not be easy for Beijing to back away from its historical claims. This confusion is playing into the hands of law enforcement forces and local government agencies.

  4. #824
    "China alarmed by Clinton’s comments on West Philippine Sea"

    http://globalnation.inquirer.net/382...philippine-sea

  5. #825
    Fate Harlaown's husband AbulugAdventure's Avatar
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    Isa pang halimbawa ng posibleng katrayduran ng gobyernong Inchek beho, sa pagkakataon namang ito ay sa Japan...

    http://ph.news.yahoo.com/china-denie...103858574.html

  6. #826

    The parallel universe of China and Corona

    .

    http://globalnation.inquirer.net/382...ina-and-corona


    What dots connect GMA to China?


    In her June 15, 2011 Malaya column (“China’s intrusions are connected to Gloria Arroyo’s deals”), Ellen Tordesillas wrote: “The current word war between the Philippines and China is another proof of the continuing curse of Gloria Arroyo on the Filipino people. The latest series of diplomatic protests… have its roots in the controversial Joint Marine Seismic Undertaking (JMSU) entered into by the Arroyo government with China in 2005 which allowed China… to explore not only the Philippine-occupied islands in the disputed mineral-rich Spratlys but areas that are clearly Philippine territory.”






    According to Barry Wain, a researcher with Southeast Asian Studies in Singapore, “JMSU was largely a sellout on the part of the Philippines. The Philippines has made breathtaking concessions in agreeing to the area of study including parts of its own continental shelf not even claimed by China or Vietnam.”

    Tordesillas added: “The JMSU was initialed during Gloria Arroyo’s 2004 visit to China which paved the way for the signing of at least two graft-riddled deals : North Rail and national broadband network with ZTE agreements.” These deals, alleged to involve hundreds of millions of dollars in kickbacks and overpricing, have been linked to former First Gentleman Mike Arroyo.

    The constitutionality of the JMSU is pending before the Philippine Supreme Court on the ground that because the Constitution provides that “exploration, development, and utilization of natural resources shall be under the full control and supervision of the State,” the Arroyo government had no right to enter into this JMSU with China.

    When the JMSU was being negotiated in 2003, then Philippine Undersecretary of Justice Merceditas Gutierrez—before she was appointed Ombudsman—recommended a change in the wording from “exploration” to “seismic survey” as she was aware of the constitutional prohibition. With just a change in form but not in substance, the JMSU was signed allowing China to explore Philippine waters.







    The JMSU study found that Reed Bank, known in the Philippines as Recto Bank, contains about 3.4 trillion cubic feet of natural gas and 440 million barrels of oil. In his 2011 State of the Nation (SONA) address, Pres. Aquino famously warned China: “If you trample on Recto Bank, you are trampling on Recto Avenue”.

    If he is not removed by the Philippine Senate this week, then Chief Justice Corona will preside in the Supreme Court on the constitutionality of the JMSU and China’s right to encroach into Philippine territory as provided for in the JMSU.

    The 92 Chinese vessels in the Panatag Shoal may soon be approaching the Philippine Senate Building in anticipation of the “single quantum event” of the parallel universe—the decision of the Senate Impeachment Court.


    Pls read more :

    http://globalnation.inquirer.net/382...ina-and-corona

  7. #827
    NeverForget + NeverForgive
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    Exclamation GMA High-treason

    @Firenzi's post.

    That is why I have stated before that: I really do not care about GMA's plunder, economic, and election cases.

    The patty in the burger, the real deal, is high-treason. GMA allowed China to intimately map the West Philippine seabed. Now China knows more about the intimate details of our wife (Philippine sovereignty) than we are. China can use it to further their economic and military interests. In fact, the data GMA gave China can be used against us in maritime warfare and nuclear weapons deployment.

    Ang laki ng malas natin kay GMA sa national security.

  8. #828
    Quote Originally Posted by andresbonifacio2 View Post
    @Firenzi's post.

    That is why I have stated before that: I really do not care about GMA's plunder, economic, and election cases.

    The patty in the burger, the real deal, is high-treason. GMA allowed China to intimately map the West Philippine seabed. Now China knows more about the intimate details of our wife (Philippine sovereignty) than we are. China can use it to further their economic and military interests. In fact, the data GMA gave China can be used against us in maritime warfare and nuclear weapons deployment.

    Ang laki ng malas natin kay GMA sa national security.
    GMA have committted high treason but unsure if those senators and congressmens will charge her of Treason
    except corruption charges.

    Some of our leaders have business interest in China and others were under Chinese Embassy's payroll.

  9. #829





    Iran and China team to build a Uranium enrichment plant within the mountain background of Bakhtiari dam in southwestern Iran, top secret sources say.







    The obvious target Cities by the devious Chinese is Tokyo, Sydney and Manila in it's five year plan to invade the Philippines.

  10. #830


    Oh my! China married the devil! buzz

  11. #831
    the lurker has un-lurk-ed mrbones525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KKCAL View Post
    The obvious target Cities by the devious Chinese is Tokyo, Sydney and Manila in it's five year plan to invade the Philippines.
    Tokyo and Sydney probably has some defense systems in place, tayo wala haha

  12. #832
    Lovely bones you have

  13. #833
    Los Indios Bravos albertus magnus's Avatar
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    Sabi nga ni Erick San Juan, more provocations will only make us closer to becoming a province of China. So any t*t for tat, will make us only the biggest loser. Lalo na ngayong, mahina ekonomiya ng Amerika at Europe, gustong gusto ng Military Industrial complex na tumiba sa gyera.

    Pumunta si Pnoy sa UK, para daw mag-invite ng UK investors. Sabi ng iilan, maniwala daw sila ngayong pabagsak din ang ekonomiya ng UK. Accdg to E. San Juan, this is all about the South China Sea. Voltaire Gazmin even had a meeting with Panetta in Singapore. Many think tank meetings. Naghahanda na ba sila ng scenario?

    Sabi nga niya eh, moro moro lang daw ito. Paano ba ang hatian? Ang norte sa China at ang MILF Mindanao sa US?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrbones525 View Post
    Tokyo and Sydney probably has some defense systems in place, tayo wala haha
    Para lang yung WWII, alam na ng US na inevitable ang gyera with Japan dahil sa embargo at provocation ng US. Pero walang preparasyon ipagtanggol ang Pilipinas. There are evidence din daw FD Roosevelt knew Japan will bomb Pearl Harbor, kaya nga daw wala na ang mga bagong barko nang mag bomba.

  14. #834
    soundscapes blue_tracer's Avatar
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    oh my.. hindi naman siguro magbabalak i-puwesto ng u.s. ang malaking bahagi ng fleet nila sa asia kung wala silang nakikitang conflict. yayaman na naman sila sa giyera.

  15. #835

  16. #836
    Ho Chi Minh quotes about China and the French, can be applied to China and the Americans.


    “You fools! Don't you realize what it means if the Chinese remain? Don't you remember your history? The last time the Chinese came, they stayed a thousand years. The French are foreigners. They are weak. Colonialism is dying. The white man is finished in Asia. But if the Chinese stay now, they will never go. As for me, I prefer to sniff French **** for five years than to eat Chinese **** for the rest of my life.”
    ― Hồ Chí Minh

    http://www.goodreads.com/​author/quo...8998.H_Ch_Minh

  17. #837
    kala ko ba okay na?

    bat dumadami na naman sila uli? NILOLOKO NA TAYO NG MGA PU$&#*#*# to.

    China increases presence at Panatag Shoal

    By Jaime Laude (philstar.com) Updated June 05, 2012 08:00 PM Comments (0) View comments

    MANILA, Philippines - China is slowly tightening its grip over Panatag Shoal by increasing the number of its deployed maritime and fishery vessels in the hotly-contested rock formation that serves as a rich Filipino fishing ground 124 nautical miles off Zambales province.

    Latest security monitoring over the area showed that eight Chinese vessels are now crowding the shoal – five surveillance ships and three FLECs (Fishery Law Enforcement Command) vessels.

    The Philippines, for its part, continues to maintain the presence of its two vessels near the shoal since the start of the standoff last May 10 between the Philippine Navy ship’s BRP Gregorio del Pilar and two Chinese maritime vessels.

    China, based on historical grounds, is claiming the entire South China Sea (West Philippine Sea) as an integral part of its maritime domain including all the islets, shoals, sandbars, reefs and atolls therein including Panatag.

    Beijing only started to show its aggressive behavior in enforcing its territorial claim over the South China Sea region early this year and onward, following a series of discoveries of oil and natural gas deposits near Palawan.

    “As of 5 a.m. yesterday there are five Chinese Maritime Surveillance (CMS) and three FLECs in Panatag Shoal,” bared a security official who asked not be named because he is not allowed to speak or discuss the matter to the media.

    These Chinese vessels include the CMS 83, 84, 75, 76 and 77. CMS 77 is anchored inside the shoal. The three FLECs are 301, 306 and 201.

    “We lost radar contact with FLEC 303,” he said, adding that they were not able to monitor if there are Chinese fishing boats inside the lagoon because of the prevailing inclement weather in the area.

    Despite this, a Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) Search and Rescue Vessel (SARV) 002 is now positioned 5.4 nautical miles northeast of the South Rock while the Bureau of Fishery and Aquatic Resources (BFAR) Maritime Control Ship (MCS)-3001 is anchored 3.9 nautical miles southeast of the North Rock.

    BFAR’s MCS-3001 was previously anchored inside the lagoon until its position was taken over by the Chinese vessel.

  18. #838
    oh ha... at least ngayon mas marami nakaalam na existence ng Philippines in the world. Imagine millions of Chinese reading about "Philippines" everyday.

    4 years ago when I went to China ganun yun conversation


    Chinese lady: Where are you from?
    Me: Philippines
    Chinese Lady: Is that in Africa?
    Me: No! It's in Asia...
    Chinese Lady: Really?!! I never heard of Philippines before...
    hahahahaha...

    kasi in Chinese
    Philippines = Fei Li bin
    Africa = Fei Zhou

  19. #839
    Sobrang bobo naman nun kung di alam Pilipinas lol.

  20. #840
    lurker extraordinaire R3'91's Avatar
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    Pinoys leave, Chinese boats remain in Panatag

    Wala na, give up na yata ang pinas sa Panatag.

    There are no more Philippine vessels in Panatag Shoal, and Chinese fishing boats are operating in the lagoon “without being interrupted again,” the Chinese foreign ministry said yesterday.

    In a statement, the ministry said Chinese “public service ships” remain in the Panatag (Scarborough) area and are “performing duties based on law enforcement, management and service needs on site.”

    The statement was issued in reaction to a statement by the Philippines’ Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) that China has pulled out two of its maritime vessels from the lagoon, while the Philippine vessel from the Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR) has also left the area.

    Chinese ministry spokesman Liu Weimin said “the Chinese side is in direct communication with the Philippine side on appropriate settlement of the situation... Operation of the Chinese fishing boats in the lagoon is normal, without being interrupted again.”

    However, latest security monitoring of the area showed that eight Chinese vessels are still in the shoal – five surveillance ships and three FLECs (Fishery Law Enforcement Command) vessels.

    Following the pullout, DFA spokesman Raul Hernandez said there were no more Chinese or Philippine government vessels inside the lagoon.

    “But there are still 30 Chinese fishing vessels inside the lagoon,” he said.

    However, a security official said, “As of 5 a.m. yesterday, there are five Chinese Maritime Surveillance (CMS) and three FLECs in Panatag Shoal.”
    Read the rest of the article here.

    Nakakahina ang mga ganitong balita. So ganun na lang? Them Chinese are crowing with this "victory".

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