trinity

[TLG]

"The mind of man cannot fully understand the mystery of the Trinity. He who would try to understand the mystery fully will lose his mind. But he who would deny the Trinity would lose his soul"

(Harold Lindsey and Charles J. Woodbridge, A handbook of Christian truth, pp 51-52).

Correct! only idiots will try to solve the mystery of God using human knowledge.

[Ateo]

Correct! only idiots will try to solve the mystery of God using human knowledge.

Idiots, yes, but also preachers and priests. Aren't they trying to clarify to us the mystery of Trinity using their human knowledge?

[tiburcioSais]

This post enlightened my inner spirit on GOD's recognition as written from HIS Words, precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little, there a little....

ye shall be as god's[/B], knowing (SPIRITUAL) good and evil."

The serpent tempted Eve, or mankind for that matter, touching on the inner self, that is, the intellect and emotion. The Tree of Knowledge or the SOUL indeed is in the midst of man.

THE SERPENT TELL EVE THAT HER EYES WOULD BE OPENED UPON EATING THE FORBIDDEN FRUITS? THE SERPENT EVEN SAID THAT SHE WOULD BE as gods, KNOWING (SPIRITUAL) GOOD AND EVIL.

The "fruit that would open the eyes,' according to the serpent, is the intellect which comes from the tree of knowledge. Do you know why God forbade Eve to 'eat the intellect,' and told her that she would ‘surely die?’ To use the intellect on matters pertaining to God and His words would mean rejection of knowledge that comes from Him. ‘Eating the intellect’ is the use of human wisdom. Can human wisdom recognize God and comprehend His words?"

When Peter recognized Jesus saying, ‘Thou art the Christ and the Son of the living God,’ was that through human wisdom? Don’t forget that Jesus told him, "for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."

To eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge or 'to eat' the intellect would make man use his LITERAL-PHYSICAL LANGUAGE! That is not God's language. How many people who 'eat the intellect' recognize God and understand His words?

STONY, do you not openly declare that God is a mystery incapable of clear recognition, because of your finite mind? Do you not admit, deep in your hearts, that God's words are full of contradictions because you cannot understand His Spiritual Language? Don’t you find His words boring, that you only select portions, because you cannot understand the great message? But you still insist on 'eating the fruits' of the tree of knowledge just like Eve did before you, for she represents mankind!"

God's follower YESTERDAY, and TODAY, were endowed with knowledge and wisdom. Was it due to 'eating the intellect?' God's disciples were "little children" who knew nothing, could not do anything, but simply God on matters pertaining to Him and His words. That is why Jesus explained everything to them:

MARK 4:34 "But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples."

Upon creation, man had God's Standard of (Spiritual) Good and Evil (having body, soul and the Spirit of God or the Tree of Life). The temptation of the serpent therefore was, for Eve or the people, to leave that standard and adopt their own. GOD ALONE CAN SET THIS STANDARD!

GOD, ohh my GOD > psalm 56:10

voila , voila !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Above post strengthened much my spiritual recognition from HIS written Words after reading this below:
[QUOTE=aida;36005061]The vital question is who Jesus Christ is before coming in the flesh. It is written JESUS CHRIST IS THE TRUE GOD and in many verses we read there is only One God. Therefore:


1. Who is the God of Abraham and Simon Peter? What is His name?
2. How does He speak? Literally or spiritually?
3. Who is the One True God that the ELECT will be seeing and to be with in eternity?


Many preachers for failure to answer the questions, and to discourage inquisitiveness on the identity of God, simply say, "The infinite Father God cannot be clearly identified with the finite mind of man! We will come to know Him only when we meet Him in heaven. Just believe what we say and don’t lose faith in God."


Clearly this will put off further search of the Scriptures and ignore the power of God to reveal the mystery of His identity.


John 5:39 "Search the scriptures (Old and New Testament); for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."


The chosen of God then were saved by faith in Jesus Christ long before His birth and crucifixion on the cross. They were epitomized by Abel who offered a "lamb" symbolizing Jesus Christ (Heb. 11:1).


Hebrews 11:13 "These (the Old Testament saints) all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them…"


Thus the warning at that time and now:


Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings."

Romans 10:2 "For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge."


Therefore, who is exempt from the following rebuke of our Lord?


John 8:19 "Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also."


Questions regarding the identity of God are never answered because many people trust the religious leaders. They also lean unto their own understanding in recognizing the (TRUE) JESUS that the identity of the Father remains a mystery (Jer. 17:5, Pro. 3:5).


People may sincerely love God without knowing Him:


Jeremiah 9:6 "Thine habitation is in the midst of deceit; through deceit they refuse to know me, saith the LORD."


Therefore they remain blind to His ways:


Jeremiah 5:4 "...they are foolish: for they know not the way of the LORD, nor the judgment of their God."


Trusting on man’s intelligence, it is easy for many people to claim JESUS is the CHRIST. When asked what "Christ" means, they say, Savior, Redeemer, and the Anointed One.


Genesis 17:7 "And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee."


God through His words reveals the requirement for the fulfillment of His testament of salvation:


Hebrews 9:16 "For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator."


Father God, a Spirit, cannot fulfill His testament with death without manifesting Himself in the flesh. Hence,


1 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh…"


There is no other entity alluded to with this great mystery but Jesus in Philippians 2:6-8. The fulfillment of the testament is confirmed in many verses as in:


1 John 3:16 (KJV) "Hereby perceive we the love of God because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren."


What is difficult to accept, where human intelligence disrupts, is that God can never die by citing the seemingly contradictory verse such as "God is not a man, that he should lie" (Numbers 23:19). The verse refers to Father God (a Spirit) before manifesting Himself in the flesh. However, in the flesh God is called Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US. There is only ONE GOD, the Father, and He is Jesus Christ - the only LORD:


Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself."


John 1:10 "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not."


What many people say that "God can never die" fail to see Jesus’ death involves only His BODY. The SOUL and the SPIRIT, as the chosen at their physical death, remain as they are./QUOTE]

[krams2]

Correct! only idiots will try to solve the mystery of God using human knowledge.

In his new book, "JESUS, SON OF GOD, CLONE OF GOD", Harry Walther explains and solves the Mystery of The Trinity, as he proves that Jesus is truly the "Son of God" begotten by The Father before the foundation of the world": satansrapture.com/jesussonofgodcloneofgod.htm

idiot pala to nasolve daw niya ang Trinity Mystery

pati yung mga pari niyo magmumukhang idiot din kasi they are trying to SOLVE the mystery of God using human knowledge

[pilotmarker]

"The mind of man cannot fully understand the mystery of the Trinity. He who would try to understand the mystery fully will lose his mind. But he who would deny the Trinity would lose his soul"

(Harold Lindsey and Charles J. Woodbridge, A handbook of Christian truth, pp 51-52).

Correct! only idiots will try to solve the mystery of God using human knowledge.

I beg to disagree.

Romans 1:20 - For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

Human knowledge is understanding of the world around us. God's divine qualities and nature can be understood clearly from what has been made. The water analogy is one of them.

A person who does not understand will quickly assume the easy way out and cry "Oh, it's a mystery. He will lose his mind. Humans have no capacity to understand the trinity. It is madness. Insane." Instead of discouraging, I'd rather encourage Christians to seek God with all his heart, to know him even better.

[tiburcioSais]

before we discuss Trinity or the triunity of God,

how about we first try to explain God Himself.

can somebody explain who and what God is, completely.

From the littlest child within our midst from one of the RoT threads:

Quoted from aida
The God of the Jews as Testator
As if God is saying, "Now, I will tell you My plan so that through it you can recognize Me. Do not forget that I made a COVENANT or a TESTAMENT with Abraham:

GENESIS 17:7 "And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee."

The Spiritual Seeds of Abraham
We ask God: "LORD, WAS YOUR COVENANT EXCLUSIVE ONLY TO THE DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM? HOW ABOUT US WHO BELONG TO OTHER NATIONALITIES? WE DO NOT EVEN HAVE A SINGLE DROP OF ISRAELI BLOOD."

GALATIANS 3:29 "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

As if God is saying, "Do not forget that I am speaking 'spiritual thing.' I tell you, to be a physical descendant of Abraham is not a guarantee of being his spiritual seed. Do the Jews belong to Christ? They did not even believe Him! Now, regarding your question. I ask you. Could you be of Christ if you do not recognize Him/Me? The first step, therefore, is for you to belong to Christ before you become the 'seed of Abraham and heir or beneficiary to My Testament.'

We ask God, "LORD, WHAT IS YOUR TESTAMENT AND ITS SIGNIFICANCE? As if God is saying, "Do you not know that you are lost and, therefore, I have to redeem you? I created you in My image, but that image was shattered when you fell into sin. The importance of My Testament is to redeem you. That is, to restore you back in My image."

We ask God, "LORD, HOW DO YOU FULFILL YOUR TESTAMENT? WHAT IS THE TERM OR CONDITION FOR ITS FULFILLMENT?"

HEBREW 9:16 "For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator."

"LORD, WE CANNOT UNDERSTAND. DO YOU MEAN THAT YOU, AS TESTATOR, HAVE TO DIE IN ORDER TO FULFILL YOUR TESTAMENT? HOW COULD YOU, THE FATHER WHO IS A SPIRIT, DIE? As if God is asking, "Is there anything impossible with Me? Would you believe Me if I tell you that I revealed Myself in the flesh?

1 TIMOTHY 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..."

"LORD, OUR FATHER, DO YOU MEAN THAT YOU ARE IN THE PERSON OF JESUS CHRIST?" As if God is saying, "Yes, I manifested Myself in the flesh in the person of JESUS CHRIST, precisely to fulfill My Testament with My death! If I, the Father, is not Jesus the man, His death would not have fulfilled My Testament. Have you forgotten that 'where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator?' Who is the Testator? Am I not the One? The Father? Who is Jesus? Am I not, in the flesh? Now relate the following two verses:"

1 CORINTHIANS 8:6 "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

MARK 12:29 "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The LORD our God is one LORD:"

"Do you not know that this was already revealed even in the Old Testament?

DEUTERONOMY 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:"

God seems to convey the concept that The Lord and The God are not two but one and the same. God, the Father, and the Lord, Jesus Christ, are but forms or manifestations of God needed for the fulfillment of His Testament. We have many questions to ask God about this startling revelation.

Only One Creator

As if God is saying, "Look at the following verses if the SINGLE CREATOR does not point to Me, both in the form of Spirit as Father, and in the flesh as Jesus Christ:"

"Referring to Me, as the Father:"
NEHEMIAH 9:6 "Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein..."

ISAIAH 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD...I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

"Referring to Me, in the flesh as Jesus Christ:

COLOSSIANS 1:15-16 "Who is the image of the invisible God...For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible...all things were created by him, and for him:"

Only One Savior
As if God is saying, "Look at the following verses if the SINGLE SAVIOR does not point to Me, both in the form of Spirit as Father, and in the flesh as Jesus Christ:"

"Referring to Me, as the Father:
ISAIAH 43:11 "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour."

ISAIAH 45:21 "Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together... have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me."

PSALMS 106:21 "They forgot God their saviour..."

"Referring to Me, in the flesh as Jesus Christ:
LUKE 2:11 "For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord."

TITUS 2:13 "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;"

JUDE 25 "To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and forever. Amen."

"Perhaps you cannot comprehend with your finite mind how I am One, when what you perceive are two persons or entities. You try to recognize Me with your intellect and with your senses. This was what I told you before, that Peter did not recognize Me with his 'flesh and blood,' but by the revelation of the Father."

"I Am that I Am"
As if God is saying, "Look at the following verses if the SINGLE I AM does not point to Me, both in the form of Spirit as Father, and in the flesh as Jesus Christ:"

"Referring to Me, as the Father:
EXODUS 3:14 "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."

"Referring to Me, in the flesh as Jesus Christ:
JOHN 8:58 "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

The First and the Last
As if God is saying, "Look at the following verses if the 'FIRST and the LAST' does not point to Me, both in the form of Spirit as Father, and in the flesh as Jesus Christ:"

"Referring to Me, as the Father:
ISAIAH 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel...I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."

"Referring to Me, in the flesh as Jesus Christ:
REVELATION 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

"Did I not talk to Abram, before he became Abraham, and introduced Myself as the Almighty?
GENESIS 17:1 "And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect."

GOD's written Words here from HIS Sacred Book, line upon line; line upon line; here a little and there a little indeed revealed YOUR only true identity !!

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

psalm 56:10

Revelation 22:

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

[tiburcioSais]

From the littlest child within our midst from one of the RoT threads:

A rejoinder from GOD ' s written Words only:

Revelation 3:12 "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name."


"Him that overcometh" indicates man's triumph over himself in overcoming human nature of "leaning unto own understanding" regarding the word of God:

Proverbs 3:5 "Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding."

So also with man’s nature of depending on another instead of trusting God:

Jeremiah 17:5 "Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD."


"I will write upon him the name of my God"


It is Jesus that is referred to in Revelation 3:1, "He that hath the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars." He says, "I will write upon him the name of my God." Very clearly this points to Jesus in His role as Son of God as seen while still nailed on the cross Luke 23:34, Matthew 27:46).


In this role, Jesus acting as "model to His brethren" (Romans 8:29) must have known first this mysterious NAME of God. This serves as "password" or passport to eternal life. One element of the "password" that many people would certainly reject is what Jesus told the multitudes who heard Him say:


John 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."


Definitely Jesus was not referring to physical life when He mentioned "life." Rather He was referring to spiritual or eternal life. And the "spirit that quickeneth" pertains to the word revealing the "spiritual message" because the "letter" only serves as basis for the truth:


2 Corinthians 3:6 "Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life."


"I will write upon him my new name"


All of a sudden the tenor was changed into first person speaking, "I will write upon him my new name." Having identified Jesus "by the revelation of the Father" (Matthew 16:16-17), the same Jesus now is clearly talking in His role as FATHER God.


Who can claim having this "new name of God" as password or passport? This is given exclusively to the chosen. While many people come across this "name" that refers to Jesus, only the chosen know it by divine revelation.


Revelation 19:13 "And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God."


"He or His" definitely refers to Jesus Christ who, in the beginning is the Word. Emmanuel that means "God with us" now presents a clearer view of God:


John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us..."

No question there is only One True God!

1 Timothy 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh...."

At walang pagtatalo, dakila ang hiwaga ng kabanalan (katotohanan) ang nagiisang Dios ay nahayag sa laman!

Dapat pa bang pagtalunan ang katotohanang ito? Alalahanin natin ang "kabanalan" ay nauukol sa pagsasalita ng katotohanan (Juan 17:17). Ang TUNAY NA JESUS ay nahayag sa laman o/at nagpahayag sa tatlong kapahayagan sa ikapagtutupad ng Tipan ng Kaligtasan!

psalm 56:10

Revelation 22:

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

[totben331]

So, the last defense of trinitarians:

Trinity = Mystery

[totben331]

I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE:

TWINITY na lang ba sila? Kasi hindi isinali ang Holy Spirit.

[rezilauqe]

What is Trimurti?

The Trimurti (English: ‘three forms’; Sanskrit: त्रिमूर्ति trimūrti) is a concept in Hinduism "in which the cosmic functions of creation, maintenance, and destruction are personified by the forms of Brahmā the creator, Vishnu the maintainer or preserver, and Śhiva the destroyer or transformer."These three deities have been called "the Hindu triad" or the "Great Trinity".

Wikipedia

Trimurti, meaning "having three forms", is the term applied to the three main Hindu gods: Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. This Trimurti or triad represents all aspects of the Supreme Being. The Trimurti is depicted as a single-bodied, three-headed man. This symbolises the fact that the three forms are aspects of one Supreme Being. Nothing in the universe is created, preserved, or destroyed without the mutual agreement and approval of the three aspects of the Supreme Being, for they are unitedly essential for the production and reproduction of all forms of life.

Gujari.net

So, trimurti depicted as a single bodied, three headed man and symbolizes that there are three forms in one Supreme being... But wait, is there anything like this in Christianity?? The Answer? Yes! What is it? The trinity, from the Catholic church which formulated by the Church fathers, correct! And What is trinity? It teaches the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead. It also states that God is the Triune God, existing as three persons (wikipedia).


And there is a conclusion in there, do you think the Catholic Church copied this kind of belief from Hinduism and the result is the so-called trinity and began teaching that the father, the son and the holy spirit is equal, the same and one??

[Cult_Follower]

Yang mga member ng INC na yan, mapa-babae mapa-lalake dumaan na lahat sa uten ni manalo.. kaya brain (kung meron man) washed na yang mga yan!!

[TLG]

Idiots, yes, but also preachers and priests. Aren't they trying to clarify to us the mystery of Trinity using their human knowledge?

The basic idea, yes! And I dont see anything wrong with that. Its the same basic principle as saying that a baby is form when the sperm cell of a man unites with the egg cell of a woman, very elementary without the process of intricately explaining all the scientific process it goes thru.

God is much more complicated than that, but you can explain the basic idea to give you insight, right?

[totben331]

Yang mga member ng INC na yan, mapa-babae mapa-lalake dumaan na lahat sa uten ni manalo.. kaya brain (kung meron man) washed na yang mga yan!!

bastos mo naman. dapat sayo i-ban

[skye_phoenix]

In fairness ang sakit sa ulo ng thread na toh ha!

Basta ako naiintindihan ko ang Trinity, pero hindi ibig sabihin na kaya ko syang ipaliwanag sa paraan na maiintindihan din ng iba. Lalo na kung close minded yung iba na yun. So, I guess I'll settle with the Trinity is a mystery.

At tama si Ateo, why stop at three?

Revelation 4:5 (NIV)
⁵ From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumblings and peals of thunder. In front of the throne, seven lamps were blazing. These are the seven spirits of God.

Well, the "seven spirits" could mean something else, but what the heck.

Just wanted to share my thoughts. Well, I'm outta here! Ta-ta!

[Terns21]

ganda ng usapan!

[tonton]

"Christianity did not destroy paganism, it adopted it." (Durant Caesar and Christ 595) The concept of the trinity finds its roots in Pagan theology and Greek philosophy. It is a stranger to the Jewish Jesus and the Hebrew people from which he sprang.

http://www.heraldmag.org/literature/doc_42.htm

[tiburcioSais]

The Truth Spiritually discerned hurts but not for deep and sincere searchers of GOD's Truth that encompasses HIS old and new testaments.

The versions proliferating long enough can not hide the real message but instead the translators unconsciously or probably with self-justified intentions incorporated smokescreens to validate the words according on what they believe or where indoctrinated to.

For the called at this point in time and perhaps converted to spiritual little children, please continue on further in knowing and recognizing the One and Only True GOD that manifested in flesh deeper, deeper and deeper.

v v v v v

Quoted from aida
Where was God when He manifested Himself in the flesh?


Perhaps, the big question that bothers the mind of the Natural Man is, "Where was God when He manifested Himself in the flesh?" Jesus was the Father in the flesh, a real man. He is not half-God, half-man, in order to be a perfect model in showing the Way to His brethren. As such, therefore, He was called the "eldest Son of God," and "the only begotten Son of the Father."

To the Apostles, the question could be gleaned in the request of Philip: "Lord, show us the Father (John 14:8)." Jesus kept on relating to the Father: praying, asking, depending, etc. They knew that Jesus of Nazareth was a real man like themselves, made of "flesh and blood, and of bones." So they wanted "to see" the Father God Who is a Spirit. Jesus told them with a tint of rebuke in His voice, "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me...how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? Jesus told them, "Believest thou not that...the Father is in me?...the Father dwelleth in me (John 14:10)."

Were the Apostles expected to understand what Jesus told them? Did the Apostles fully recognize God and Jesus at that moment? If they did, they would not have doubted Jesus’ resurrection, and many things He told them before. While the Disciples did not fully comprehend things about God and Jesus, they, however, did not reject what they heard from Him. They "tarried in Jersualem until they were endowed with power and wisdom from on high (Luke 24:49)."

To the Scribes, Pharisees, Sadducees, Elders of Israel, and the Jews in general, the matter was dismissed as plain stupidity and foolishness. Everything that Jesus told them were all hoax and fraud. They were greatly inflamed when Jesus said, "That ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him (John 10:38)." Jesus was accused of blasphemy and that is one cause of His death. At the moment Jesus said, "the Father is in me," they sought to take him; but he escaped out of their hand (John 10:39). To hear Jesus say, "The Father is in me," must have been very loathsome to the Jews, especially to the Scribes and Pharisees, who did not recognize Him.

To the real Christians of the 20th and 21st centuries, how does the Son’s claim, "The Father is in me," register in their mind? Is it similar to Jesus’ Disciples’ non-rejection and wait-to-know attitude? Or, to the Scribes’, Pharisees’, and Sadducees’ total rejection and repulsive disposition?

To the Apostles, the statement "The Father is in me" did not mean much before Pentecost. To the Scribes, Pharisees, and Sadducees, and the Elders of Israel, it was abominable. What did the statement mean to the Apostles after Pentecost? What does it mean to the people believing in the Bible today?

To the Apostles after Pentecost, the statement meant the revelation of the relationship of the Father and the Son; and the identities of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Son showed that His human body, as a perfect example for His brethren, was the temple or the dwelling place of the Father, a Spirit. The Father promised Himself to be the Inheritance in His Testament (Ezekiel 44:28, Numbers 18:20, Psalms 16:5), but what the real believers received was the Holy Spirit (John 7:39, Acts 2:3, 1 Corinthians 3:16 & 6:19).


To the Disciples of Christ, the statement meant seeing themselves in the shoes of the model:


1. Just as the model said, "The Son can do nothing of himself," the Disciples saw themselves saying the same thing.

2. While Jesus was in His human body, He told them that He was not the real Teacher, but the Spirit:

JOHN 16:12-13 "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth..."


The Apostles saw themselves in the shoes of the model. While Jesus spoke the truth, it was not He Who could make the believers understand, but the Holy Spirit; so with the "brethren." This is the rationale behind:

1 JOHN 2:27 "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you..."


This is God’s divine justification for dispensing with human teachers and human trainors for Christ’s chosen servants:


EPHESIANS 4:11 "And he (Jesus, not any man or group of men) gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;"

The Apostles, putting themselves in the shoes of the model, including Paul who was appointed by the "spiritual" Christ, replayed the life of the "physical" Jesus. Just as the Son said, "The Father is in me," so the Disciples claimed being "filled" with the Holy Spirit. "The Father or the Holy Spirit is in us:"

ACTS 13:52 "And the disciples were filled with joy, and with the Holy Ghost."

HEBREWS 10:15 "Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us..."


Is this not the same for the Son, a real human being, changing only the Holy Ghost to Father?


JOHN 5:36-37 "But I have greater witness...the Father hath sent me. And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape."


The Son was endowed with power and wisdom by the Father, as the Apostles were endowed with power and wisdom by the Holy Spirit!

ACTS 10:38 "How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power... for God was with him."


Where was God when He manifested Himself in the flesh? The "flesh" was in front of the very people professing to know the God of Abraham. The "flesh" was with the chosen people of God humbly demonstrating the Way for them. God was never gone, He is a spirit. The spirit God was in the presence of both the believers and the unbelievers. The "flesh" testified to this:

JOHN 8:29 "And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him."


WHO IS THE FATHER? WHO IS THE PROMISED INHERITANCE? WHO IS RESIDING IN THE PHYSICAL BODY OF THE DISCIPLES AFTER PENTECOST? WHO WAS RESIDING IN THE PHYSICAL BODY OF THE SON JESUS? WHO IS RESIDING IN THE PHYSICAL BODY OF THE REAL CHRISTIANS TODAY?

Just as the "flesh" said, "The Father hath not left me alone," so the real Christians also say, "the Holy Spirit is dwelling in us, Who teaches and makes us understand great things about Him." But all these "spiritual things" are foolishness to the NATURAL MAN:

1 CORINTHIANS 2:14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

Using the sense of SIGHT (at the baptism of Jesus) and the sense of HEARING (at the 'conversation' of the Father and the Son), and trying to comprehend with the INTELLECT (grammatical plurality of God), is it not a "foolish question" to ask, "WHERE WAS GOD WHEN HE MANIFESTED HIMSELF IN THE FLESH?" We heard this question from the Apostles before Pentecost. But never after Pentecost!


Jews waiting for the Messiah


Until now the Jews are still waiting for the promised Messiah. The Messiah came in the person of Jesus Christ. They saw and heard Him speak. But they did not recognize Him! The reason is they "did not come to their God with their whole heart."

Has that truth passed away in our time? Just as the Jews were entrusted with the Laws or words of God, traditional Christianity is likewise entrusted with the words of God in the Bible. Are not so-called Christians today in the different religious sects, also waiting for the second coming of the Messiah?

The God of Abraham, the only Savior, came in the form of man and He was not recognized by the Jews. Jesus Christ came in the form of Spirit, the Holy Spirit, and He also is not being recognized by so-called Christians. The Jews are still waiting for their Messiah, just as so-called Christians are waiting for the second coming of Jesus, the Messiah. Can they now both claim "having come to the Lord with their whole heart" that the promised heart to know Him would have been given to them? Who is telling a lie? God or man?

The Jews, because they did not recognize their Messiah, rejected and killed Him! Can we not see the same thing today how, thousands of Christian religious sects, because they do not recognize the TRUTH Who is the spiritual Messiah, reject and "kill" Him with their man-made doctrines?

in this juncture, at this point in time.....psalm 56:10

[JaRvis_Jayren]

...only idiots will try to solve the mystery of God using human knowledge.

Since ikaw na'ng nagsabi niyan, then what should we call Trinitarians here in RoT trying to explain the Trinity if indeed no one can understand it?

How can you explain something you don't understand? And how can someone not figure out a way to explain what they claim to understand

[TLG]

Since ikaw na'ng nagsabi niyan, then what should we call Trinitarians here in RoT trying to explain the Trinity if indeed no one can understand it?

What's wrong with explaining the basic ideas of it? Hindi naman mahirap unawain kung basic lang naman ang ipapaliwanag mo eh, liike you, you can explain to a 5th grader how babies are formed by telling them that babies are formed when the sperm cell unites with the egg cell, you dont have to expain all the scietific process it goes thru dahil sigurado kahit ikaw hindi mo din alam yun.

Ganun lang naman kasimple eh...

What's stupid is trying to debunk the trinity using human knowledge on mathematics like 1+1+1=3, as if God is bounded by mathematics!

How can you explain something you don't understand? And how can someone not figure out a way to explain what they claim to understand

its enough that you understand the basic of it. Like I said basic, not the complexities of it. Like you for instance, you can understand basic math, but i doubt you understand complex mathematics! Correct?

[Tagapagmasid]

Many preachers for failure to answer the questions, and to discourage inquisitiveness on the identity of God, simply say, "The infinite Father God cannot be clearly identified with the finite mind of man! We will come to know Him only when we meet Him in heaven. Just believe what we say and don’t lose faith in God."

tuta ni aida kamusta? natatawa ako sayo hehehehe... eh talagang hindi maipapaliwanag ang sagot kasi ano ba ang tanong? parang kayo ni aida sumasagot na hindi alam ang tanong.

@TLG & ateo: Sino ba ang nagsabi na may nag solve ng mistery ng Divine trinity? May malaking kaibahan ang pag solve sa pag gawa ng sketch.

Mas idiot ang mga taong sumasagot na hindi alam ang tanong.