relationship with a GRO

[dabbydabs]

haayyy.. ang pag-ibig nga naman...
talks about stupidity!

[Rycev]

Hi. Thank you for your replies. Again I will answer in turn

@chizmojo

Rycev – you did not answer the question if you are willing to support her family if you decide to pursue a relationship with her.


You know, to the average westerner that question would sound strange, but as a Filipino-Australian, and one that has been married to a pinay, I get the cultural significance of it. Like I said, we both have the same family-oriented values; but what that really means for me is that my immediate family comes first. To answer the question, I am willing only to support her, my immediate partner. If she chooses to distribute part of that support to her family, well that is her own business. Do not take it the wrong way, I am willing to assist once in a while only I where I believe that assistance will eventually lead to self-sufficiency. I will show reluctance, if I think that support will be fashioned as a substitute income. This is the custom I have been brought up with. For your information (and I apologise in advance if I over simplify or offend), this phenomenon where ïf you marry a Filipina, you marry also her entire family” is a source of extreme angst and culture shock for many western partners.

I am all too keenly aware that my answer maybe a source of friction within the relationship. However, it is not easy for me to abandon what I have been accustomed to for so long. So I will cross that bridge when I come to it

@kleenexlambot

So how would you like things to evolve from here? You said youre sending some sort of financial assistance, and requesting the lady to accept the drinks at work but not the bar fine (bar fine means going out with clients right?). And then you trust her to do as such, but will the income from drinks be sufficient for her to support her and family needs? What's next? Asking her to quit her job and you offering financial support instead?

Naturally I would like her to change career. Mostly, I want her really to help herself. Yes I do give financial assistance, in fact I just remitted via LBC a couple of days ago to her bank account. However the assistance I gave is not enough to support her and her family. You see if I gave more than enough for her and her family to live on, that will not effect change and will not motivate her to work. I feel it must be a balance, the value of work must still be appreciated. I give her enough so she does not have to work so hard and perhaps even invest in herself. I tell her frankly that GRO’s have a short working life-expectancy. As you get older, the money you take in goes smaller. I put to you that not many will bar fine a 40 year old. However if you invest in yourself, such as education or even save for your own business, your income will likely to into perpetuity. I strongly believe she is cognisant of this fact. However desperate times, call for desperate measures. Her family needs money now, so she does this job and denies herself the luxury of changing what would be her inevitable future. My measured assistance I hope can give her that future, and allow her to facilitate a course correction.

There are private investigation agencies out there who can help you and if i were as serious as you i would not wait any further.

You read my mind here as I already have. Its the lawyer in me coming out. I engaged a private investigator that I found in sulit. Just on the side, I find sulit to be a very good source of people advertising services, who do not normally have websites. Many friends I have here in Australia, use this site if they want a particular service when they go to the Philippines (such as drivers). Anyway, I’ve paid them a 60% down for a BI report. They say if I choose surveillance, then this would be at a different rate – but the BI was expensive enough I thought. At first, I hesitated calling them. We are talking about an intimate relationship here, not a prospective employment contract; so engaging them could be seen as a massive breach of trust on my part. Then again, like so many of you have mentioned, one has to be tempered by reality. So I did it. Keeping it a secret is a challenge

@creech

sorry TS you're caught in a trap you let your feelings run over you. please use your head. these kind of women are a waste of time and money.

I cannot fault your conclusion

Let me just say that in my line of work, I’ve witnessed people tell a good yarn (stories) or two. Many of them so compassionate and compelling that it’s so tempting to take them on face value as true. I remember a time early in my career when I had I thought I was helping, what I had believed to be, a battered wife, to obtain an AVO (what the yanks may call a restraining order) . What she had told me was so detailed, intricate and accompanied by physical injuries on her person, that I became so casual in checking external evidence. At the time of the trail, she was proven to be the perpetrator. When you hear these same stories over and over again, your mid just develops an immunity. My point is you exude a cold emotional reaction and eventually you can tell who’s pulling your leg or not most of the time.

I just don’t see that happening with her.

However – yes, I agree with you. I accept that there are times were one is so smitten with another, that person will have difficulty in logically assessing what ought to stand to reason. I have also seen that happen in my time.

Mate, all I could say is that I wish I could just flip on a switch to turn off what I feel, I can’t. Emotion or feelings are part and parcel of a relationship, without it a person might as well be an automaton. No relationship, just process. If your proposition is true, that emotion or feelings can over-run your sensibilities and mask your perception of a trap, then I would say that the counter argument must equally be true. It is those same feelings that can act as a moral compass to tell you what’s right from wrong or what’s good for you and not. Some crudely refer to the moral compass as their “gut”.

So what does my gut say at the moment? It says she’s not truly evil.

***

Right now I’m taking things a day at a time. I love to her voice and I call every day. No exaggeration, every day since I left Manila. I’ve used a lot of recharge cards at the moment. I text her every day.

However she has not talked to me consistently or properly (I think in Tagalog you all call it maayos) with me the last couple of days. The other day, the conversation ended abruptly. When I tried calling again, she either hanged up the phone or there was sometimes no answer. She is that special to me that I worry about her, so it freaked me out a little that I got no answer. During the next morning round of text messages, when i asked her what happened, she didn’t say. Makes me curious: she either does not trust me or doesn’t want to tell me something. I told her to trust me, and I would not judge (yes, even if she is “working”). Yet she still hesitant to say. I recognise these as massive survival skills. However, what do you make of that?

[Prikongkong]

Yes, she is "working" that's why you can't get a decent conversation from her. She doesn't like to talk about work, specially her line of work, specially with you. Even if you won't judge, you'll be hurt. People generally do not like to be bearers of unpleasant stories. Don't play blind. You know what she does at night.

[Bowen]

However she has not talked to me consistently or properly (I think in Tagalog you all call it maayos) with me the last couple of days. The other day, the conversation ended abruptly. When I tried calling again, she either hanged up the phone or there was sometimes no answer. She is that special to me that I worry about her, so it freaked me out a little that I got no answer. During the next morning round of text messages, when i asked her what happened, she didn’t say. Makes me curious: she either does not trust me or doesn’t want to tell me something. I told her to trust me, and I would not judge (yes, even if she is “working”). Yet she still hesitant to say. I recognise these as massive survival skills. However, what do you make of that?

Ignore her and don't call her for a week. You'll get your answer. If she doesn't call you back, you're just a customer. Leave before you waste your time and money.

[revhard]

Unless she calls BECAUSE he is a customer

[Bowen]

^Yeah, that too. hehe

Either way Rycev, use your spider senses. Just try to read her. Would it be a lot better for you to have lots of prospect? You can't put your eggs in only one basket you know. You need to diversify to lessen your risk.

Invest wisely and don't gamble.

[umame25]

@ Bowen

Lols are you encouraging him to have more headaches?


Anyways, TS I admire you for taking interest in a G.R.O. Not because they are that, but despite being that, you've come to see her past her occupation. I do think that is not an obsession that you have with her nor a temporary fling as you've claimed you already invested much but simply, you do care for her.. love her.

[Prikongkong]

Rycev, ask for a receipt.

[Bowen]

lol@ receipt.

@umame25 I'm sure his wife is a larger headache than all of the girls combined. lol.

Peace rycev hehe

[sweetie62910]

***

Right now I’m taking things a day at a time. I love to her voice and I call every day. No exaggeration, every day since I left Manila. I’ve used a lot of recharge cards at the moment. I text her every day.

However she has not talked to me consistently or properly (I think in Tagalog you all call it maayos) with me the last couple of days. The other day, the conversation ended abruptly. When I tried calling again, she either hanged up the phone or there was sometimes no answer. She is that special to me that I worry about her, so it freaked me out a little that I got no answer. During the next morning round of text messages, when i asked her what happened, she didn’t say. Makes me curious: she either does not trust me or doesn’t want to tell me something. I told her to trust me, and I would not judge (yes, even if she is “working”). Yet she still hesitant to say. I recognise these as massive survival skills. However, what do you make of that?

bad sign. i think are about to get a rude awakening in the next couple of days.

[fauxx]

I'd say, exercise caution. I won't definitively say that she is a bad idea.
I won't definitively say that she is a good one as well.

At the end of the day, you are fragile. She is fragile. One day you will have to come to terms with who she is, with who she may be, with who you were when you met her and what future do you see yourself with her.

And the issue with your other family notwithstanding, you will have to delve yourself again, emotionally, with another. Can you be strong enough for that? And that's taxing.

And when that time happens you both have to make a choice. When all is said and done, that would be the basis of whether the whole thing would be a right decision that makes you happy or not.

I say now, go for it. Give it time. See what happens. If you're happy continue to do it. Don't fall in too deep just yet.

[lawrence1]

Hi, thank you for taking the time to read my post. I'm a Filipino-Australian (full-Filipino blood but born and breed in Australia) and had recently returned from a trip to the Philippines. The purpose of the trip was to see my son and attend his birthday.

I will just condense what is a very long story just to give you background/context. My marriage had been unhappy for some time until the point we both had agreed that it was time to separate. When I first gave her the inkling of my intent to commence a permanent legal separation (i.e. a divorce), her response was very dramatic and, in my opinion, extremely misplaced. In short, she fled with my son to Cebu.

My son had a recent birthday and I was determined to see him. The mother allowed me to do so under extremely onerous conditions and, such was my desperation to see my son, I relented and offered no protest. After the party, I was basically told that future visitations would be rare and upon their discretion, however a monthly stipend was expected!

Obviously not welcomed in Cebu, I went to Manila. Days had past and I was getting far more despondent. So, I did what every man (more rather every weak man) who feels that they are on their last emotional tether does - I sought Dutch courage and sought to engage in a fleeting moment of debauchery. What the heck, I figured if I had already been so falsely accused of being a man of such vice, I might as well just cave in and play the part!

So I went to a agogo bar on p.burgous in Makati. The plan started off well; I started to drink at a pace that would quickly take me to my drunken destination. However the plan quickly went awry when I meet the GRO. She had listened to me and, most importantly, she had understood me. Now I am no feeble minded person, this was the job of a GRO and I did not see myself as any exception to the norm. Nonetheless she did her job well and took me to a place where I did not think I could go again – a place of happiness. She showed a level of maturity and wisdom that is contrary to her age. I kept returning to the bar and, obviously once that option became monetarily impractical, I kept asking to see her once her shift was done. She obliged. I got to know her more, and her’s is a sad story. She is the eldest of eight children to parents with meagre income. At one point I even offered to help her family... I once told my driver to take us to Pasig in order for her to deliver money to her pregnant mother that was on the verge of giving birth to her eight child. Let me just say that it did not take me long to see past that scarlet letter of a label called GRO, and see the remarkable woman behind it.

In short, I found myself substantially emotionally invested (odd phrase I know, but lets just use it for now) in this woman. I really don’t know what this relationship I have with her is, whether fleeting or permanent, all I know is that I am happy. My question to you all is: am I doing the right thing being involved with a GRO? Is this relationship right? For any God fearing man, the answer is a flat no. If it is a no, then why do I feel so happy with her? If I pursue this, everyone will get hurt: my separated wife, my son and family (P.S for all those who know that if you marry a pinay you don’t just marry her, you marry her entire family. This point ought to go without saying!). Then again maybe I am not suppose to be happy and that paramount law that I must follow, must be the vows that I took: “to love, honour and cherish...”

I apologise for my rambled post. I am just confused. I look forward to hear from your replies and thanks for taking the time to read

Mr Ts,


have read your story and completely understood what you are going into. your having a close up relationship with her is completely normal and i admire you for thaking the time to know her situation.being in love with a GRO is completely normal.she is a human being with feelings and its not entirely her fault that she landed on her current job. if you felt she was only after the money i know you could sense it.from your story,i think she is telling the truth about her situation . its up to you if you will continue to have this kind of relationship with her .but can you fathom her job that she will be mingling with other club patrons while you are not around?thats the question you have to answer yourself..

[kleenexlambot]

^ To be attracted to a pretty GRO - yes its normal. To be in love with someone you met at a girly bar after a couple of meetings - No, its not normal of course! There are other terms for that -- lust, desire, excitement maybe.

Anyway, TS is not in love - he is just emotionally involved with the girl, according to him. Though i dont know how he draws the line between these feelings.

Lets see how TS moves this relationship forward, if at all. The only thing that is clear to us is that the girl needs money. Without being judgmental, i really think TS needs to do much much more to really know this girl, and her intention. The distance between them make things even more difficult.

I agree with other posters, maybe TS should diversify his emotional investment around where he is located rather than taking this girl, who is thousand of miles away, that seriously.

[darmonx]

GROs, strippers, or any service girl is quite effective to any middle aged or older male that is in a vulnerable state of loneliness. you have to ask yourself, what else can she offer you side from temporary relief from loneliness? do you think you can live with her? what happens when her looks fade and she needs to get a real job? what if you become lonely again while with her and after being exposed to the gro culture, will you seek relief from another gro?

this is unexplored territory for you and for her as well if she decides to go monogamous with you. none of these questions can be answered reliably as each person under the same circumstances will react differently making each situation a unique experience. in the spirit of the unknown and for the pursuit of happiness.. let your journey begin. good luck to you.

[viv]

gro from burgos? im sorry man, but you have to open your eyes a bit. i dont look down on anybody, especially to women like them, but business there is quite stiff, girls know their "business" very well. still be nice to her as she has helped u, but to go further than that, thats not sensible..

[Rycev]

@Bowen

Either way Rycev, use your spider senses. Just try to read her. Would it be a lot better for you to have lots of prospect? You can't put your eggs in only one basket you know. You need to diversify to lessen your risk.

Thank you. I must say that is a very stocker-broker-esque way of analyzing a would-be relationship; but I get the point. The thing is I suppose I was never really looking at the market in the first place. I had been alone for some-time since my wife had fled, and I was getting used to the concept. The idea of attracting more fair-game out there was not on my radar. As I was scared of going through all the turmoil again, I just never put myself out there. Now some (ok a very small handful) came a knocking and were of good sorts, but nothing clicked. As always, one’s memory is clearer with hindsight. In hindsight, I say I never clicked with them because it was me: I was not ready and I wanted to concentrate more on my son. Something deep in my psyche said that being a in a relationship at that time would disrupt the relationship I would want to have with my son. On what basis I had come to that conclusion, I got no idea.

What’s different with this person, this GRO? Well we just click. We connect in a very meaningful way. That connection is rooted in mutual understanding and not in possession. She wants a relationship with me, but understands (and even encourages me) that I need to immediately pursue a healthy relationship with my son. Second fiddle she will always play to my son and she is content with that. That’s a big turn on for me.

I'm sure his wife is a larger headache than all of the girls combined. lol.

Yes, Yes and x2 yes

@ Prikongkong

She doesn't like to talk about work, specially her line of work, specially with you. Even if you won't judge, you'll be hurt. People generally do not like to be bearers of unpleasant stories. Don't play blind. You know what she does at night.


Yes I would be hurt and I would not say that I am blind. The thing is, if she did tell me and became more forthright, then that is the next step to a relationship. That step would mark a deeper level of trust. It would be tantamount to a shift from the superficial to the meaningful. Now if she does not eventually take that step, then I put it to you that would be much more painful to me than having confirmation that she is “working”.


@fauxx

And the issue with your other family notwithstanding, you will have to delve yourself again, emotionally, with another. Can you be strong enough for that? And that's taxing.

Yes it is taxing (big time), and I do know if I am strong enough. I really don’t know. I will be honest; part of me is very scared. Logically I ought to be once bitten and twice shy, but I’m not. Why do people do what they do? It’s because they’re searching for something, anything. Perhaps they want to fill a void or give purpose and value to one’s life. I would say that is no different for me. I need to fill a void that my wife was ill-equipped to fill and, yes my son may define me and make me happy, but he cannot fill this void. I suppose I will always continue to search for a way to do that, and, if I have the slightest suspicion that a person could do that… well I’m willing to follow that rabbit deeper and down that hole.

Don't fall in too deep just yet.

Understand that I will want to fill that void. How deep I will follow the rabbit I do not know. I will go deeper until I reach the point that I know for certain that she can’t fill that void.

@ lawrence1

its up to you if you will continue to have this kind of relationship with her .but can you fathom her job that she will be mingling with other club patrons while you are not around?thats the question you have to answer yourself..

Of course her continued profession is not my preference. Her actions are contrary to my Christian values, but I also recognize that those values need to be tempered by circumstance. Yes I will burn inside knowing what she is doing for a living, and burn inside knowing that I’m not there to stop it. However, I will accept it even if it be begrudgingly

@ kleenexlambot

Anyway, TS is not in love - he is just emotionally involved with the girl, according to him. Though i dont know how he draws the line between these feelings.

All I can say is that if you believe in shades of grey, then you can draw a line. I think the status one places on a relationship can’t be defined in black and white terms. That is you either love her or you don’t . I have never defined a relationship to be that rigid. To do so would be to equate a relationship like pregnancy. You are either pregnant or not – you can’t be a little bit pregnant. I’ve always believed that there are shades of grey; that there is still a journey between both destinations of genuine love and not in love. To say that I am emotionally invested only describes where I am in that journey.

@ darmonx

GROs, strippers, or any service girl is quite effective to any middle aged or older male that is in a vulnerable state of loneliness. you have to ask yourself, what else can she offer you side from temporary relief from loneliness? do you think you can live with her? what happens when her looks fade and she needs to get a real job? what if you become lonely again while with her and after being exposed to the gro culture, will you seek relief from another gro?

O I hope I’m not classified as middle-aged, I turn 32 this coming May. “Older male” is slightly more palatable!! Heheh

You ask some serious questions, but I think the one that is most profound is: do you think you can live with her? That’s a good question and I have no idea. To live with her has the propensity to have serious ramifications. It could possibly equate to me quitting my job, selling my home and cars and leaving my friends and family behind to be with her. I’m not in total love just yet, so I don’t see myself paying that price. However, as time goes by and I see myself falling more and more, I might give you a different answer

[Jameaux]

TS - the only thing I can think of right now is for you to be responsible for the consequences of your actions. If you really want her, do it. Much has been said but anything can happen. We can't predetermine the outcome of your relationship. If you are confident that you can handle the situation there would be no problem. Be happy and be fruitful.

[JUST_JT_]

TS I'll just throw a couple of Qs at you for now -
How old is the GRO
How long has she been a GRO


I can see why you are emotionally invested in her. If I were in your shoes, I'd probably feel the same way. Uncertainty sucks. Hiring a PI is a smart move. Keep us posted on the PI's report mate.

[Dearleader]

Would you suffer some misery with her? What if she gave you a disease? Can you live with that?

[Rycev]

Okay here’s an update with the PI. I got the "initial" BI report the other day. I’m a little disappointed; its just standard stuff of what you get when you inquire through normal agencies. I have a copy of her birth certificate from the NSO (which confirms already what she had told me) albeit I now know both her parents name and what was their occupation at the time of her birth. I have her SS number from the SSS, which indicates she has made neither claim nor contribution. I have her schooling history. The comelec reports she is not registered to vote in all her known addresses: Makati, Pasig nor her home province. The NBI records no criminal conviction and the BID records no hold departure on file and no travel records. So basically she has no passport, so not a big deal.

The initial BI report doesn't show much, what I am waiting for in the final report is her profile and especially whether she has relations other than myself (ie. possible sponsors). Although They have kept me updated with this regard and have visited her bar on more than one occasion trying to solicit intel from her co-workers. They have not managed to solicit intel from her yet as, like I said on a previous post, she has not been in the bar for a week. I will share the final report once I have it….but at this stage I’m waiting for the final report.

@JUST_IT

TS I'll just throw a couple of Qs at you for now -
How old is the GRO
How long has she been a GRO

She is 24 and I will be turning 32 this coming May. So there’s an age difference granted, but not enough for anyone to say (not that you said it of course) that I am old enough to be her daddy =)

She has been a GRO since 30 December 2011. She has had considerable periods off, a 2 week stint in January and now. In fact, the PI has stated that it was because of these absences that the floor manager wanted her gone had it not been for a close friend who also works in the bar.

@Dearleader

Would you suffer some misery with her? What if she gave you a disease? Can you live with that?

Well that’s not at the forefront of my mind to be honest…. Makati city requires all workers to have VD checks continuously in order for them to continue working. The bar itself enforces their own safeguards and policies once a person has been bar-fined in addition to what is already required by city hall. If you think about it, it makes good business sense also for them to do that, as they want to ensure customers come back and not stay away. Just on an aside, in my state of NSW in Australia (and I dare say in other jurisdictions here as well) prostitution is very legal; so long as it is within licensed premises (ie. Licensed bordellos) and that any solicitation occurs just outside these premises. It is illegal to solicit within earshot of community areas, such as schools and churches. The sex industry in Australia is a legitimate enterprise here that demands the protection of law enforcement. My point in mentioning this is that it seems that the policies employed in Makati (although mind you I’m not speaking about everything else) are analogous to those employed in jurisdictions where the majority of sex-work has been decriminalized. The big difference “theoretically” is that in the Philippines the police will likely prosecute rather than protect. The chances of getting a disease is there I totally agree, but it may not be as rampant as one would normally tend to generalize or what has been sensationalized in popular media.

Can you live with that? If this will be love, we can deal with. I will cross that bridge when it comes mate