What can we do? Fearsome problems in Muslim integration with Christians

[creech]

forgiveness is not in their culture. kaya may honor killings. yung mga arab muslims uncivilized mga yan.

[Davaoville]

forgiveness is not in their culture. kaya may honor killings. yung mga arab muslims uncivilized mga yan.

You can buy their forgiveness. You have to pay Blood Money.

Just recently, a pinoy murderer on death row in Saudi paid $800,000 to the family of his victim. He's now a free man.

[andresbonifacio2]

Christianity was established around 2,000 years ago, while Islam was established 1,400 years ago (which is 600 years after Christianity). Therefore it is not correct to say that our forefathers sinned converting to Christianity. My forefather may had been a pagan or an 'espiritista' but not necessarily a Muslim.

Islam came to the Philippines because of trade, and Christianity through conquest. Interestingly, Islam is also currently assimilating with Christians because of trade (e.g. dibidi, tiangge), while some Christians are converting to Islam, especially in the Middle East, for apparent practical and economic reasons, while some Christians are busy with their in-fighting and building their own sects.

I am actually "pleading" and "begging." I am referring to historical claims they presented here before. A Muslim when asked what was their greatest contribution in the Philippines, listed all kingdoms under the Sultan of Sulu. Included in that list was the Kingdoms within and around Manila. Please take note I am trying to negotiate in a humble position. The message is not for your consumption but for our Muslim kababayan's pleasure.

I can only confirm my side as I have a little Tagalog ancestry. My Tagalog ancestors (according to our family stories) were under the King of Tondo living in Laguna. All were Muslims. Laguna and Batangas was a Muslim area before the Spaniards came. Like Indonesia today, they were probably a mix of Islam and aboriginal/animist/etc...

[andresbonifacio2]

You can buy their forgiveness. You have to pay Blood Money.

Just recently, a pinoy murderer on death row in Saudi paid $800,000 to the family of his victim. He's now a free man.

Notable was when a kidnapped person was claimed through the intervention of Manila Mayor Lim.

The payment for returning the kidnapped person was Php 100,000. Imagine that! If we were to follow the law the kidnappers should have been jailed, not paid.

This information was shared by a fellow Pexer earlier in this thread.

[BossVic]

Si Alaskador ang katapat nila.

All for Juan Juan for All ayaw sa Muslim communities.

[andresbonifacio2]

Si Alaskador ang katapat nila.

All for Juan Juan for All ayaw sa Muslim communities.

With due respect to Alaskador, he may have good reason to confront religion itself. But I do not agree that kind of methodology, I prefer a secular and democratic discussion.

And for that matter, personally (and please forgive me for this) I have some reservations regarding Realm of Thought regulars (Muslim or non-Muslim) to take part in this kind of discussion. Realm of Thought is a very scary place.

[andresbonifacio2]

Maguindanao lawmaker, Marine troops settle rift
Source: http://www.philstar.com/nation/artic...ticleid=802890.

Note 1: The "rift" between the Marines and the Muslim lawmaker is not about any fight, but a complaint that the Marines were too slow in mobilizing.

Note 2: The AFP should learn from the Ampatuan massacre. The AFP and the Marines should be "proactive" in their stance and ready to deploy in protecting helpless Muslim citizens from their heavily armed Muslim enemies.

[andresbonifacio2]

Ghost students, ghost teachers, ghost schools haunt ARMM
Source: http://www.philstar.com/nation/artic...ticleid=802885

Comments: It is an open secret that ordinary Muslim citizens (part of the sovereign power) are deprived of government and social services by their own Muslim politicians (most of which are members of royal blood/datu) by turning public funds into personal funds.

Who are these politicians? Who are these thieves?

[andresbonifacio2]

Peace panel probes mosque burning in SCotabato
Source: http://www.philstar.com/nation/artic...ticleId=802899

Noteworthy facts (Noteworthy questions):
1. Mosque is made of makeshift materials.
2. (Were the T'boli moving into the Illongo settlement?)
3. (Why were the Illongo not arrested? Could it be that because the area is under the jurisdiction of the GRP-MILF Peace Panel?)

Consider the same Situation in Metro Manila and Luzon.
1. Mosque built on an area where only less than 100 Muslims reside.
2. Very loud and intrusive Muslim call of prayer to more than 100,000 Christian residents.
3. Muslim call of prayer overwhelms prayers of Christians inside churches and prayer-houses.
4. Christians can only share this problem amongst themselves as even the police can not go into Mosque and surrounding area.

Solutions?
1. In Luzon, is it possible for the Muslim call of prayer be toned down as a sign of respect to the hundreds of thousands of Christians that accommodated and now fear them?
2. Is it possible to close down Mosques built illegally?
2. The police must arrest the Illonggo suspects and a proper investigation be conducted.
3. The police and the GRP-MILF Panel must release all facts detailing all circumstances. As why would Illongo (Christians) would go out of their way in doing this in MILF territory? There must be a greater problem

[sexyntanned]

hi. i live in culiat, qc. when i was still new here (in 2010), some of my neighbors warned me not to visit that alley where muslims live. there were also taxi drivers reluctant to bring me here in Cuiat whenever i tell them so. all of them are kind of wary of the danger they might face once they pass by that small alley nearby.

2 years have passed and I have not encountered any problem yet. In fact, there was once a group of Muslims who invited me to visit their area and have fun with them. But I heeded the advice of my neighbors. Somehow, I am really scared.

I kind of agree with the post saying that Islam and Christianity, in fact, complement each other (in an apocalyptic way though!). Christianity's call for martyrdom and sacrifice uncannily complements Islam's call for war. I don't know what made God create these two religions.

Right now, I'd rather keep mum and just observe whatever happens outside. I hope I learned enough from Survivor...

[andresbonifacio2]

hi. i live in culiat, qc. when i was still new here (in 2010), some of my neighbors warned me not to visit that alley where muslims live. there were also taxi drivers reluctant to bring me here in Cuiat whenever i tell them so. all of them are kind of wary of the danger they might face once they pass by that small alley nearby.

Since you are relatively new in the area, experience is an asset your neighbors have. And it is better to be safe than sorry, take from those who were already victimized; whose trials have made others to be more careful.

2 years have passed and I have not encountered any problem yet. In fact, there was once a group of Muslims who invited me to visit their area and have fun with them. But I heeded the advice of my neighbors. Somehow, I am really scared.

Years ago I was also invited by my Muslim friends, even invited to Marawi; but once that starts you will be educated and evangelized in Islam in the sidelines. But if you have Muslim friends who are genuinely integrated, religion will not be an issue.

I kind of agree with the post saying that Islam and Christianity, in fact, complement each other (in an apocalyptic way though!). Christianity's call for martyrdom and sacrifice uncannily complements Islam's call for war. I don't know what made God create these two religions.

Sad to say, knowing about that truth is the reason I am an irreligious person right now.

Right now, I'd rather keep mum and just observe whatever happens outside. I hope I learned enough from Survivor...

Be safe.

[james_park]

I am really baffled at how the TS got robbed. He did have a chat ("interview") with them and he was in the middle of the crowded streets of Quiapo. I'm skeptical...

Plus, the actions of the TS do not conform to ordinary human conduct or natural course of events.

[andresbonifacio2]

I am really baffled at how the TS got robbed. He did have a chat ("interview") with them and he was in the middle of the crowded streets of Quiapo. I'm skeptical...

Plus, the actions of the TS do not conform to ordinary human conduct or natural course of events.

Crime happens and it is really an out-of-this-world experience. It defies all logic and understanding. Crime does not conform to ordinary conduct or natural course of events. My personal experience is up to you to take it or leave it. In this case just leave it.

But what I am chronicling here and what is being contributed by others are events recorded in tri-media, social media, and third party personal experiences. It is from those events and experiences (not mine) that I take it to discuss openly social and cultural integration problems.

[bier_trinker]

In grained na yata sa religion nila na parang may sarili silang batas at gagawin nila kung anong gusto nilang gawin in the name of religion.

[sexyntanned]

I don't know if we can use Spain as an example. In the late 1400s during the reign of Queen Isabel and King Ferdinand, they were able to unite the diverse kingdoms of Spain into one. Muslims were driven out of the Iberian Peninsula and Spanish unity was finally attained after centuries. What emerged was a Catholic Kingdom that would eventually become the mother of most Catholic countries today including the Philippines.

Of course, we are not after driving the Muslims out of the country. But the question is, how can we contain them?

[sexyntanned]

^^My point is, if Catholic Spain was able to drive away those Muslims, certainly, we could also defend ourselves from them...

[sugargame]

Fascinating interpretation of biblical prophecy by Avi Lipkin.

It explains what will happen when Middle East runs out of oil.

1. We will see a huge diaspora of Muslims as Middle East runs out of oil.

2. As a result of muslim depopulation of the Middle East, Israel will expand its borders to utilize the territories abandoned by Muslims.

3. Muslims will take over Asia, Europe, and the Americas as the result of immigration from the Middle East.

4. Christians and Jews from Asia, Europe, and the Americas will try to escape persection by migrating to Israel (with its new expanded borders)

The Goal of Islam with Avi Lipkin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-vCh6MMP3Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-vCh6MMP3Y

[andresbonifacio2]

I don't know if we can use Spain as an example. In the late 1400s during the reign of Queen Isabel and King Ferdinand, they were able to unite the diverse kingdoms of Spain into one. Muslims were driven out of the Iberian Peninsula and Spanish unity was finally attained after centuries. What emerged was a Catholic Kingdom that would eventually become the mother of most Catholic countries today including the Philippines.

Of course, we are not after driving the Muslims out of the country. But the question is, how can we contain them?

A very good question.

My "dream goal" is for integration level that is similar to the United States. Translation: political will and implementation of the law. In the United States you will see Muslim actors, sportsmen, politicians, and journalists who walk side-by-side seamlessly with Christians. They abandoned tribal culture and follow the rule of law. The policemen can issue notices, serve warrant of arrests; anytime, anywhere.

In the Philippines the police can not enter Muslim areas without asking permission first from the unelected community leaders, some are of datu(royal) lineage. Police arresting errant Muslim police are even greeted with bullets from high-powered assault rifles. And mind you this is just Quezon City, Metro Manila.

As you might have heard the recent violence in Culiat, Quezon City was between two Muslim policemen who chose to "put the law in their own hands" in bursts of gunfire. The most violent are usually Muslim vs. Muslim fights.

A strict implementation of the law like those of Hagedorn/Bayani/ Lim/Dutuerte is the only model that works to maintain peace and maintain a temporary sense of harmonious integration.

In my small way, I write those collective experience in PinoyExchange in the hope to increase awareness and eventually convince the authorities to act. Metro Manila is becoming like ARMM. I hope that increased awareness will also convince Muslims to abandon ARMM ways and integrate to the generally hospitable Christians of Luzon.

[cyberfunk]

In grained na yata sa religion nila na parang may sarili silang batas at gagawin nila kung anong gusto nilang gawin in the name of religion.

Islam is a way of life. It's both a religious and political institution. Walang separation ng church and state sa kanila dahil for them iisa yun. Kaya kahit dito sa Pilipinas our laws does not always applies to them. Such as marriages to small children by an adult and yes yung polygamy.

[andresbonifacio2]

Fascinating interpretation of biblical prophecy by Avi Lipkin.

It explains what will happen when Middle East runs out of oil.

1. We will see a huge diaspora of Muslims as Middle East runs out of oil.

2. As a result of muslim depopulation of the Middle East, Israel will expand its borders to utilize the territories abandoned by Muslims.

3. Muslims will take over Asia, Europe, and the Americas as the result of immigration from the Middle East.

4. Christians and Jews from Asia, Europe, and the Americas will try to escape persection by migrating to Israel (with its new expanded borders)

The Goal of Islam with Avi Lipkin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-vCh6MMP3Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-vCh6MMP3Y

Thank you sir for sharing this, but I request that doctrines including prophecies to be discussed in the Realm of Thought section instead.

I've pleaded and requested many times that this thread remain exclusively temporal, secular, democratic, and juridical in nature. I intentionally avoided doctrines and elements of faith because they are an obstacle to this type of discussion. We can only hope for change through rule of law.

Pasensya na po, sana maintindihan niyo.